1906: Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC-CLOSED]

[Pyrghium]

Well, I don't particularly think that the two Roman Empires would have been threat. The ERE especially would have stopped caring about Iberia after losing that southern part they shortly recovered under Justinian, and the WRE doesn't seem to have been centralized enough historically to do much.
.

Actually, I was hoping that the Romans could maintain the enclave around Cartagena for a little while longer, because that would increase the Roman influence on the Visigoths. I’d even go so far as to suggest that perhaps instead of the Moors or Arabs occupying parts of Iberia for centuries, maybe the Romans could take on that role, and instead of constant violent conflict, what you get is cultural bifurcation; and increased Roman influence on the Visigothic Culture, political structure, and military structure. Would the Roman Empire(s) be amenable to that?

[Plzen]

Well, tbf, I have claims on practically all my neighbours so...take your place in the line, right after the domestic problems.

When it comes to the two of us, our international problems are our domestic problems.

Neither Central Europe nor Scandinavia have anything to gain from going to war against each other. Once a Socialist government takes power in Scandinavia, it will be interested in promoting the socialist movement in Central Europe, but not if it means that our none-too-substantial army is going to be stuck in the middle of it all. A Central European war against Scandinavia... well, I hope you're not going to miss having intact harbours.

But the parts of Scandinavia that Central Europe might be interested in has a substantial German-speaking cultural minority, and the popularity of the Socialist movement in Central Europe is a lovely hornet's nest to poke at from afar...

It's not like, say, a potential Scandinavian-Russian war where both sides are going to be fairly committed as a national community towards achieving victory.

[Tracian Empire]

Well, I am a bit confused. If Spanish developed the same way minus the Arab influence, wouldn't your culture be Spanish without Arab influences then? I don't particularly feel like the adoption of Visigothic names justifies calling your culture Gothic.



Well, I don't particularly think that the two Roman Empires would have been threat. The ERE especially would have stopped caring about Iberia after losing that southern part they shortly recovered under Justinian, and the WRE doesn't seem to have been centralized enough historically to do much.

And if you want the Visigoths to have become more centralized you have to explain it, and the WRE and ERE have different governments and bureaucracies, so you can't copy both.

Well, the Visigoths would’ve conceivably copied more from the Western Roman Empire, no?

And you’re right, should I just put the culture as Spanish-Latino, then, but with Visigothic names?

Well, that's the catch - the WRE wasn't centralized for most of its history. It's Senate basically became a council of the regional princes. This decentralization also stopped it from ever adopting a bureaucratic system like the ERE's.

So back to the core issue - a centralization of the Visigothic realm would have to be justified, and it would probably happen organically. Just adopting Roman elements without justification would feel unnatural.

You should also obviously try to take inspiration from the actual Visigoths. From what I remember, they had an elective monarchy - the monarch was elected by senatorial nobles and church officials and the whole process was regulated by the church councils. If you believe that they would have evolved beyond this system, you need to explain why.

As for the culture, that opens a few questions. If it's Spanish it's Spanish, there is no need for the Latino addition, Spanish is Latin at its core after all.

But the question of identity appears. What would the identity of your people be? Visigothic was the identity of the elites - would the Visigoths have tired to impose their identity on the population? Would they have tried to fabricate a new, common identity for both the population and the elite?

[Tracian Empire]

Well, I don't particularly think that the two Roman Empires would have been threat. The ERE especially would have stopped caring about Iberia after losing that southern part they shortly recovered under Justinian, and the WRE doesn't seem to have been centralized enough historically to do much.
.

Actually, I was hoping that the Romans could maintain the enclave around Cartagena for a little while longer, because that would increase the Roman influence on the Visigoths. I’d even go so far as to suggest that perhaps instead of the Moors or Arabs occupying parts of Iberia for centuries, maybe the Romans could take on that role, and instead of constant violent conflict, what you get is cultural bifurcation; and increased Roman influence on the Visigothic Culture, political structure, and military structure. Would the Roman Empire(s) be amenable to that?

I don't think that it would be possible. The ERE, which would have been in de facto control of the province of Spain, still is invaded by the Arabs and is unable to even maintain its authority over the subordinated WRE in Italy, let alone Iberia. The ERE also never particularly placed much importance on the province in real life either, as it was merely seen as a bulwark against Gothic invasion of Africa, and I do not think that this would have changed. The WRE would have also been unable to take control of the provinces, seeing as its central authority was was slowly devolving at the time.

I'm also not sure how much this would have led to actual influence. Roman administration in the Province of Spain was largely focused on the cities, with little to no control over the countryside, so it would never have had the same influence the Arabic centuries of occupation did. And at the same time, it would logically just lead to the Visigoths opposing Roman influences even more, much like the Spanish tried to cleanse Arabic influences after the Reconquista - the Romans and the Visigoths were violently at war for as long as Roman rule in the province existed.

[Pyrghium]

Well, the Visigoths would’ve conceivably copied more from the Western Roman Empire, no?

And you’re right, should I just put the culture as Spanish-Latino, then, but with Visigothic names?

Well, that's the catch - the WRE wasn't centralized for most of its history. It's Senate basically became a council of the regional princes. This decentralization also stopped it from ever adopting a bureaucratic system like the ERE's.

So back to the core issue - a centralization of the Visigothic realm would have to be justified, and it would probably happen organically. Just adopting Roman elements without justification would feel unnatural.

You should also obviously try to take inspiration from the actual Visigoths. From what I remember, they had an elective monarchy - the monarch was elected by senatorial nobles and church officials and the whole process was regulated by the church councils. If you believe that they would have evolved beyond this system, you need to explain why.

As for the culture, that opens a few questions. If it's Spanish it's Spanish, there is no need for the Latino addition, Spanish is Latin at its core after all.

But the question of identity appears. What would the identity of your people be? Visigothic was the identity of the elites - would the Visigoths have tired to impose their identity on the population? Would they have tried to fabricate a new, common identity for both the population and the elite?

That’s a good point. The idea of a Visigothic Emperor elected by the Senate/Nobility makes a lot of sense. As for cultural identity that’s more difficult. The majority of the people were Latin, and the elites were Visigothic. Perhaps it’s best to keep that bipolar identity and separation between the two going. This would be an interesting further accentuation of the strong class divisions in the Empire; and would probably help spur the Independence movements in the Colonies, as most of the colonists themselves would be Latins; while most of the elites back home and in the colonies would be Visigothic Nobles/Senators. Perhaps this blows up at some point especially in the Colonies. The Colonies, I’m thinking will be more heavily Spanish (Latino), while the old Country will be more heavily Visigothic; as those Latins who didn’t settle in the Colonies assimilated more and more to the Gothic culture.

And if this is the case, then the Visigothic Empire would very much be in the anti-Roman League, but against the wishes of the majority of the population, who have no political franchise of any kind.

[Pyrghium]

Full Nation Name : Visigothic Empire
Majority/Official Culture : Visigothic (for the Elites), Latin (for the peasantry, workers, and majority of the population)
Territorial Core : Iberian Peninsula, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, Brazil (what’s left of it), South Africa, northern India
Territorial Claim : [[OPTIONAL]] [[region NOT your core where your nation’s ambition lies]]
Capital City : Toledo
Population : 60 million

Iberia - 15 million

South American Possessions - 20 million

South Africa - 5 million

Indian Possessions - 20 million



South American territories

Government Type : Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Militant, Imperialist, Expansionist, etc.]]
Government Focus : Military, Economic
Head of State : Emperor Roderic XIV (ruled: 1839 AD - Present)

(Image)

Head of Government : Emperor Roderic XIV, Co-Emperor Alaric XIX (ruled: 1886 AD - Present)
Government Description : The Government is an Absolute Monarchy with all Executive power concentrated in the person of the Emperor. However, the Monarch is aided in Legislative affairs by the Imperial Senate. The rank of Senator is open only to the Nobility, who’s role is to advise the Monarch, and also to elect the next Monarch upon the death of the incumbent if no heir was previously declared, or else to confirm the election of the heir, if one was declared. The Governors of the homeland provinces are selected by the Emperor and approved by the Senate; the Colonial Exarchs are appointed only by the Emperor and answer directly to him. The Peasants and Workers have no political representation or voice whatsoever.

Majority/State Religion : Roman Orthodox Christianity
Religious Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

Economic Ideologies : Mercantilism
Major Production : Wine, Olive Oil, Sugar, Coffee, Gold, Diamonds, Iron, Coal
Economic Description : The Economy is dominated by the State through Private Companies and Monopolies controlled by the Nobility (the Senators). The Middle Class in Visigothia is small to non-existent, and there are very sharp contrasts between the Elites and the average citizens. Most top positions are reserved for the Nobility; both in Government and the Economy. The only exceptions to this are the Military and the Church.

Development: Semi-Industrialized
Development Description : Industrial production exists for military equipment, transportation of goods, shipping, refinement of raw materials, and production of textiles and basic goods; but the Empire is only a few decades into Industrialization; which is also slowed because Monopolies held by the Nobility (Senators) slow industrial and economic innovation. As population and and better access to goods increase, so does pressure for innovation and liberalization.

Army Description : WIP
Army Weakness : WIP
Naval Description : WIP
Naval Weakness : WIP
Further Military Description : WIP

National Goals :
National Issues : Sharp Class distinctions, growing pressure to liberalize and innovate, massive political corruption among the Nobility/Senate, Independence movements among the Colonies
National Figures of Interest : WIP
National Ambition/Aspirations : WIP

History : WIP
RP Sample: WIP

#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

Hey all, what do you think I need to improve of what I’ve done so far? I know I still have to do the Military and History; and I will work in those, but I’m talking more what I’ve already done.

I’d also like to invite all the Latin American nations, to TG me, so we can sort out the history of the Colonization and the Wars of Independence. So far, I’m thinking the Visigoths began Colonization of South America in the 15th and 16th centuries, and ruled there until the late 18th century, early to mid 19th century in others. But we’ll work out all the details. Broadly, the Empire has two identities: the Elites identify more with the Visigothic, Germanic identity; while the peasantry and average people identify more as Latin/Spanish. The Colonies became bastions of Latin/Hispanic culture, while Iberia itself gradually became more of a melange of Gothic and Hispanic; leaning more heavily on the Gothic.

[Novacom]

Full Nation Name : Visigothic Empire
Majority/Official Culture : Visigothic (for the Elites), Latin (for the peasantry, workers, and majority of the population)
Territorial Core : Iberian Peninsula, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, Brazil (what’s left of it), South Africa, northern India
Territorial Claim : [[OPTIONAL]] [[region NOT your core where your nation’s ambition lies]]
Capital City : Toledo
Population : 60 million

Iberia - 15 million

South American Possessions - 20 million

South Africa - 5 million

Indian Possessions - 20 million



South American territories

Government Type : Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Militant, Imperialist, Expansionist, etc.]]
Government Focus : Military, Economic
Head of State : Emperor Roderic XIV (ruled: 1839 AD - Present)

(Image)

Head of Government : Emperor Roderic XIV, Co-Emperor Alaric XIX (ruled: 1886 AD - Present)
Government Description : The Government is an Absolute Monarchy with all Executive power concentrated in the person of the Emperor. However, the Monarch is aided in Legislative affairs by the Imperial Senate. The rank of Senator is open only to the Nobility, who’s role is to advise the Monarch, and also to elect the next Monarch upon the death of the incumbent if no heir was previously declared, or else to confirm the election of the heir, if one was declared. The Governors of the homeland provinces are selected by the Emperor and approved by the Senate; the Colonial Exarchs are appointed only by the Emperor and answer directly to him. The Peasants and Workers have no political representation or voice whatsoever.

Majority/State Religion : Roman Orthodox Christianity
Religious Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

Economic Ideologies : Mercantilism
Major Production : Wine, Olive Oil, Sugar, Coffee, Gold, Diamonds, Iron, Coal
Economic Description : The Economy is dominated by the State through Private Companies and Monopolies controlled by the Nobility (the Senators). The Middle Class in Visigothia is small to non-existent, and there are very sharp contrasts between the Elites and the average citizens. Most top positions are reserved for the Nobility; both in Government and the Economy. The only exceptions to this are the Military and the Church.

Development: Semi-Industrialized
Development Description : Industrial production exists for military equipment, transportation of goods, shipping, refinement of raw materials, and production of textiles and basic goods; but the Empire is only a few decades into Industrialization; which is also slowed because Monopolies held by the Nobility (Senators) slow industrial and economic innovation. As population and and better access to goods increase, so does pressure for innovation and liberalization.

Army Description : WIP
Army Weakness : WIP
Naval Description : WIP
Naval Weakness : WIP
Further Military Description : WIP

National Goals :
National Issues : Sharp Class distinctions, growing pressure to liberalize and innovate, massive political corruption among the Nobility/Senate, Independence movements among the Colonies
National Figures of Interest : WIP
National Ambition/Aspirations : WIP

History : WIP
RP Sample: WIP

#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

Hey all, what do you think I need to improve of what I’ve done so far? I know I still have to do the Military and History; and I will work in those, but I’m talking more what I’ve already done.

I’d also like to invite all the Latin American nations, to TG me, so we can sort out the history of the Colonization and the Wars of Independence. So far, I’m thinking the Visigoths began Colonization of South America in the 15th and 16th centuries, and ruled there until the late 18th century, early to mid 19th century in others. But we’ll work out all the details. Broadly, the Empire has two identities: the Elites identify more with the Visigothic, Germanic identity; while the peasantry and average people identify more as Latin/Spanish. The Colonies became bastions of Latin/Hispanic culture, while Iberia itself gradually became more of a melange of Gothic and Hispanic; leaning more heavily on the Gothic.

Before you get too far ahead of yourself, we need a bit more information about your actual concept before we can accept your reservation so making an app is somewhat premature.

[Pyrghium]

Hey all, what do you think I need to improve of what I’ve done so far? I know I still have to do the Military and History; and I will work in those, but I’m talking more what I’ve already done.

I’d also like to invite all the Latin American nations, to TG me, so we can sort out the history of the Colonization and the Wars of Independence. So far, I’m thinking the Visigoths began Colonization of South America in the 15th and 16th centuries, and ruled there until the late 18th century, early to mid 19th century in others. But we’ll work out all the details. Broadly, the Empire has two identities: the Elites identify more with the Visigothic, Germanic identity; while the peasantry and average people identify more as Latin/Spanish. The Colonies became bastions of Latin/Hispanic culture, while Iberia itself gradually became more of a melange of Gothic and Hispanic; leaning more heavily on the Gothic.

Before you get too far ahead of yourself, we need a bit more information about your actual concept before we can accept your reservation so making an app is somewhat premature.

What would you like to know?

[Novacom]

As in how you transitioned to a more modern nation state, you said you wanted to take on some more roman-esque aspects and didn't answer Trace's questions about how you evolved and centralised, for the most part you just agreed with him when he said what system they actually used opposed to elaborating.

[Freakoland]

Hello!

Is it too late to join this theater or can I still submit an application?

[Tracian Empire]

Hello!

Is it too late to join this theater or can I still submit an application?

The roleplay is still open, though the map has not been updated in a few days. You can certainly still join!

[Pyrghium]

As in how you transitioned to a more modern nation state, you said you wanted to take on some more roman-esque aspects and didn't answer Trace's questions about how you evolved and centralised, for the most part you just agreed with him when he said what system they actually used opposed to elaborating.

Centralization occurred organically in the Middle Ages. The Country began to prosper and grow even more when it discovered and colonized South America.

[Novacom]

As in how you transitioned to a more modern nation state, you said you wanted to take on some more roman-esque aspects and didn't answer Trace's questions about how you evolved and centralised, for the most part you just agreed with him when he said what system they actually used opposed to elaborating.

Centralization occurred organically in the Middle Ages. The Country began to prosper and grow even more when it discovered and colonized South America.

What caused the centralisation, saying it happened Organically doesn't explain it, something would have had to happen to cause the Visigoths to centralise especially if you continue to have such a sharp divide as you've mentioned.

[Sao Nova Europa]

Bolivia is part of South America (in fact I am currently in the process of pouring billions of dollars of investment in the region ).

Aside from that, I deliberately left my country's colonial history vague in order to give more liberty to the Spanish player with regards to his history.

However, in my app I have described that South America revolted in 1820 and waged a successful ten-year war against Spain, managing to become independent in 1830 (in May 21, 1830, Spain and South America signed a treaty recognizing South American independence). My app is here (map is somewhat outdated though) if you need info on my history: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=36852386#p36852386

[Pyrghium]

Bolivia is part of South America (in fact I am currently in the process of pouring billions of dollars of investment in the region ).

Aside from that, I deliberately left my country's colonial history vague in order to give more liberty to the Spanish player with regards to his history.

However, in my app I have described that South America revolted in 1820 and waged a successful ten-year war against Spain, managing to become independent in 1830 (in May 21, 1830, Spain and South America signed a treaty recognizing South American independence). My app is here (map is somewhat outdated though) if you need info on my history: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=36852386#p36852386

Ok, it’s all good. I’ll remove Bolivia from my territories as well. I’m hoping the other South American countries can also give me a timeline of their Independence Wars, so I can work things out.

[Pyrghium]

Centralization occurred organically in the Middle Ages. The Country began to prosper and grow even more when it discovered and colonized South America.

What caused the centralisation, saying it happened Organically doesn't explain it, something would have had to happen to cause the Visigoths to centralise especially if you continue to have such a sharp divide as you've mentioned.

Maybe a war with the Franks or the Romans that went horribly wrong?

[Pyrghium]

Full Nation Name : Visigothic Empire
Majority/Official Culture : Visigothic (for the Elites), Hispano-Latin (for the peasantry, workers, and majority of the population)
Territorial Core : Iberian Peninsula, Colombia, Peru, Brazil (what’s left of it), South Africa, northern India (what’s left of it)
Territorial Claim : [[OPTIONAL]] [[region NOT your core where your nation’s ambition lies]]
Capital City : Toledo
Population : 50 million

Government Type : Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Militant, Imperialist, Expansionist, etc.]]
Government Focus : Military, Economic
Head of State : Emperor Roderic XIV (ruled: 1839 AD - Present)

(Image)

Head of Government : Emperor Roderic XIV, Co-Emperor Alaric XIX (ruled: 1886 AD - Present)
Government Description : The Government is an Absolute Monarchy with all Executive power concentrated in the person of the Emperor. However, the Monarch is aided in Legislative affairs by the Imperial Senate. The rank of Senator is open only to the Nobility, who’s role is to advise the Monarch, and also to elect the next Monarch upon the death of the incumbent if no heir was previously declared, or else to confirm the election of the heir, if one was declared. The Governors of the homeland provinces are selected by the Emperor and approved by the Senate; the Colonial Exarchs are appointed only by the Emperor and answer directly to him. The Peasants and Workers have no political representation or voice whatsoever.

Majority/State Religion : Gothic Orthodox Christianity
Religious Description : Theologically and Liturgically identical to the Eastern Orthodox Church, ruled by the Synod of Gothia, presided over by His All Holiness, Isidore VI, Archbishop of Toledo (1899 AD - Present) and of all Gothia. The Gothic Orthodox Church performs the Divine Liturgy in both Old Gothic and Hispanic Latin (Spanish). The Gothic Orthodox Church is also widespread throughout the Visigothic Empire’s colonial holdings in South America, Africa, and Northern India. Since the declaration of autocephaly for the Archbishop of Toledo from the Jurisdiction of the Pope of Rome, there has been tensions between Toledo and Rome; which have been exacerbated by the local ecclesiastical authorities in the newly independent countries in South America, breaking with the Synod of Gothia and placing themselves under the Pope of Rome.

Economic Ideologies : Mercantilism
Major Production : Wine, Olive Oil, Sugar, Coffee, Gold, Diamonds, Iron, Coal
Economic Description : The Economy is dominated by the State through Private Companies and Monopolies controlled by the Nobility (the Senators). The Middle Class in Visigothia is small to non-existent, and there are very sharp contrasts between the Elites and the average citizens. Most top positions are reserved for the Nobility; both in Government and the Economy. The only exceptions to this are the Military and the Church. All Education and Healthcare is run by the Church, and paid for jointly by the Church and State.

Development: Semi-Industrialized
Development Description : Industrial production exists for military equipment, transportation of goods, shipping, refinement of raw materials, and production of textiles and basic goods; but the Empire is only a few decades into Industrialization; which is also slowed because Monopolies held by the Nobility (Senators) slow industrial and economic innovation. As population and and better access to goods increase, so does pressure for innovation and liberalization.

Army Description : WIP
Army Weakness : WIP
Naval Description : WIP
Naval Weakness : WIP
Further Military Description : WIP

National Goals :
National Issues : Sharp Class distinctions, growing pressure to liberalize and innovate, massive political corruption among the Nobility/Senate, Independence movements among the Colonies
National Figures of Interest : WIP
National Ambition/Aspirations : WIP

History : WIP
RP Sample: WIP

#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

I decided to add some details under the Religion section. Does it make sense?

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

Full Nation Name : Visigothic Empire
Majority/Official Culture : Visigothic (for the Elites), Hispano-Latin (for the peasantry, workers, and majority of the population)
Territorial Core : Iberian Peninsula, Colombia, Peru, Brazil (what’s left of it), South Africa, northern India (what’s left of it)
Territorial Claim : [[OPTIONAL]] [[region NOT your core where your nation’s ambition lies]]
Capital City : Toledo
Population : 50 million

Government Type : Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Militant, Imperialist, Expansionist, etc.]]
Government Focus : Military, Economic
Head of State : Emperor Roderic XIV (ruled: 1839 AD - Present)

(Image)

Head of Government : Emperor Roderic XIV, Co-Emperor Alaric XIX (ruled: 1886 AD - Present)
Government Description : The Government is an Absolute Monarchy with all Executive power concentrated in the person of the Emperor. However, the Monarch is aided in Legislative affairs by the Imperial Senate. The rank of Senator is open only to the Nobility, who’s role is to advise the Monarch, and also to elect the next Monarch upon the death of the incumbent if no heir was previously declared, or else to confirm the election of the heir, if one was declared. The Governors of the homeland provinces are selected by the Emperor and approved by the Senate; the Colonial Exarchs are appointed only by the Emperor and answer directly to him. The Peasants and Workers have no political representation or voice whatsoever.

Majority/State Religion : Gothic Orthodox Christianity
Religious Description : Theologically and Liturgically identical to the Eastern Orthodox Church, ruled by the Synod of Gothia, presided over by His All Holiness, Isidore VI, Archbishop of Toledo (1899 AD - Present) and of all Gothia. The Gothic Orthodox Church performs the Divine Liturgy in both Old Gothic and Hispanic Latin (Spanish). The Gothic Orthodox Church is also widespread throughout the Visigothic Empire’s colonial holdings in South America, Africa, and Northern India. Since the declaration of autocephaly for the Archbishop of Toledo from the Jurisdiction of the Pope of Rome, there has been tensions between Toledo and Rome; which have been exacerbated by the local ecclesiastical authorities in the newly independent countries in South America, breaking with the Synod of Gothia and placing themselves under the Pope of Rome.

Economic Ideologies : Mercantilism
Major Production : Wine, Olive Oil, Sugar, Coffee, Gold, Diamonds, Iron, Coal
Economic Description : The Economy is dominated by the State through Private Companies and Monopolies controlled by the Nobility (the Senators). The Middle Class in Visigothia is small to non-existent, and there are very sharp contrasts between the Elites and the average citizens. Most top positions are reserved for the Nobility; both in Government and the Economy. The only exceptions to this are the Military and the Church. All Education and Healthcare is run by the Church, and paid for jointly by the Church and State.

Development: Semi-Industrialized
Development Description : Industrial production exists for military equipment, transportation of goods, shipping, refinement of raw materials, and production of textiles and basic goods; but the Empire is only a few decades into Industrialization; which is also slowed because Monopolies held by the Nobility (Senators) slow industrial and economic innovation. As population and and better access to goods increase, so does pressure for innovation and liberalization.

Army Description : WIP
Army Weakness : WIP
Naval Description : WIP
Naval Weakness : WIP
Further Military Description : WIP

National Goals :
National Issues : Sharp Class distinctions, growing pressure to liberalize and innovate, massive political corruption among the Nobility/Senate, Independence movements among the Colonies
National Figures of Interest : WIP
National Ambition/Aspirations : WIP

History : WIP
RP Sample: WIP

#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

I decided to add some details under the Religion section. Does it make sense?

You should probably join the discord so we can have more ease of communication

[Pyrghium]

I decided to add some details under the Religion section. Does it make sense?

You should probably join the discord so we can have more ease of communication

I don’t have Discord, though, unfortunately.

[Tracian Empire]

Full Nation Name : Visigothic Empire
Majority/Official Culture : Visigothic (for the Elites), Hispano-Latin (for the peasantry, workers, and majority of the population)
Territorial Core : Iberian Peninsula, Colombia, Peru, Brazil (what’s left of it), South Africa, northern India (what’s left of it)
Territorial Claim : [[OPTIONAL]] [[region NOT your core where your nation’s ambition lies]]
Capital City : Toledo
Population : 50 million

Government Type : Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Militant, Imperialist, Expansionist, etc.]]
Government Focus : Military, Economic
Head of State : Emperor Roderic XIV (ruled: 1839 AD - Present)

(Image)

Head of Government : Emperor Roderic XIV, Co-Emperor Alaric XIX (ruled: 1886 AD - Present)
Government Description : The Government is an Absolute Monarchy with all Executive power concentrated in the person of the Emperor. However, the Monarch is aided in Legislative affairs by the Imperial Senate. The rank of Senator is open only to the Nobility, who’s role is to advise the Monarch, and also to elect the next Monarch upon the death of the incumbent if no heir was previously declared, or else to confirm the election of the heir, if one was declared. The Governors of the homeland provinces are selected by the Emperor and approved by the Senate; the Colonial Exarchs are appointed only by the Emperor and answer directly to him. The Peasants and Workers have no political representation or voice whatsoever.

Majority/State Religion : Gothic Orthodox Christianity
Religious Description : Theologically and Liturgically identical to the Eastern Orthodox Church, ruled by the Synod of Gothia, presided over by His All Holiness, Isidore VI, Archbishop of Toledo (1899 AD - Present) and of all Gothia. The Gothic Orthodox Church performs the Divine Liturgy in both Old Gothic and Hispanic Latin (Spanish). The Gothic Orthodox Church is also widespread throughout the Visigothic Empire’s colonial holdings in South America, Africa, and Northern India. Since the declaration of autocephaly for the Archbishop of Toledo from the Jurisdiction of the Pope of Rome, there has been tensions between Toledo and Rome; which have been exacerbated by the local ecclesiastical authorities in the newly independent countries in South America, breaking with the Synod of Gothia and placing themselves under the Pope of Rome.

Economic Ideologies : Mercantilism
Major Production : Wine, Olive Oil, Sugar, Coffee, Gold, Diamonds, Iron, Coal
Economic Description : The Economy is dominated by the State through Private Companies and Monopolies controlled by the Nobility (the Senators). The Middle Class in Visigothia is small to non-existent, and there are very sharp contrasts between the Elites and the average citizens. Most top positions are reserved for the Nobility; both in Government and the Economy. The only exceptions to this are the Military and the Church. All Education and Healthcare is run by the Church, and paid for jointly by the Church and State.

Development: Semi-Industrialized
Development Description : Industrial production exists for military equipment, transportation of goods, shipping, refinement of raw materials, and production of textiles and basic goods; but the Empire is only a few decades into Industrialization; which is also slowed because Monopolies held by the Nobility (Senators) slow industrial and economic innovation. As population and and better access to goods increase, so does pressure for innovation and liberalization.

Army Description : WIP
Army Weakness : WIP
Naval Description : WIP
Naval Weakness : WIP
Further Military Description : WIP

National Goals :
National Issues : Sharp Class distinctions, growing pressure to liberalize and innovate, massive political corruption among the Nobility/Senate, Independence movements among the Colonies
National Figures of Interest : WIP
National Ambition/Aspirations : WIP

History : WIP
RP Sample: WIP

#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

I decided to add some details under the Religion section. Does it make sense?

You've literally just ignored several of the points that I've told you.

[Sarderia]

Full Nation Name : Visigothic Empire
Majority/Official Culture : Visigothic (for the Elites), Hispano-Latin (for the peasantry, workers, and majority of the population)
Territorial Core : Iberian Peninsula, Colombia, Peru, Brazil (what’s left of it), South Africa, northern India (what’s left of it)
Territorial Claim : [[OPTIONAL]] [[region NOT your core where your nation’s ambition lies]]
Capital City : Toledo
Population : 50 million

Government Type : Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Militant, Imperialist, Expansionist, etc.]]
Government Focus : Military, Economic
Head of State : Emperor Roderic XIV (ruled: 1839 AD - Present)

(Image)

Head of Government : Emperor Roderic XIV, Co-Emperor Alaric XIX (ruled: 1886 AD - Present)
Government Description : The Government is an Absolute Monarchy with all Executive power concentrated in the person of the Emperor. However, the Monarch is aided in Legislative affairs by the Imperial Senate. The rank of Senator is open only to the Nobility, who’s role is to advise the Monarch, and also to elect the next Monarch upon the death of the incumbent if no heir was previously declared, or else to confirm the election of the heir, if one was declared. The Governors of the homeland provinces are selected by the Emperor and approved by the Senate; the Colonial Exarchs are appointed only by the Emperor and answer directly to him. The Peasants and Workers have no political representation or voice whatsoever.

Majority/State Religion : Gothic Orthodox Christianity
Religious Description : Theologically and Liturgically identical to the Eastern Orthodox Church, ruled by the Synod of Gothia, presided over by His All Holiness, Isidore VI, Archbishop of Toledo (1899 AD - Present) and of all Gothia. The Gothic Orthodox Church performs the Divine Liturgy in both Old Gothic and Hispanic Latin (Spanish). The Gothic Orthodox Church is also widespread throughout the Visigothic Empire’s colonial holdings in South America, Africa, and Northern India. Since the declaration of autocephaly for the Archbishop of Toledo from the Jurisdiction of the Pope of Rome, there has been tensions between Toledo and Rome; which have been exacerbated by the local ecclesiastical authorities in the newly independent countries in South America, breaking with the Synod of Gothia and placing themselves under the Pope of Rome.

Economic Ideologies : Mercantilism
Major Production : Wine, Olive Oil, Sugar, Coffee, Gold, Diamonds, Iron, Coal
Economic Description : The Economy is dominated by the State through Private Companies and Monopolies controlled by the Nobility (the Senators). The Middle Class in Visigothia is small to non-existent, and there are very sharp contrasts between the Elites and the average citizens. Most top positions are reserved for the Nobility; both in Government and the Economy. The only exceptions to this are the Military and the Church. All Education and Healthcare is run by the Church, and paid for jointly by the Church and State.

Development: Semi-Industrialized
Development Description : Industrial production exists for military equipment, transportation of goods, shipping, refinement of raw materials, and production of textiles and basic goods; but the Empire is only a few decades into Industrialization; which is also slowed because Monopolies held by the Nobility (Senators) slow industrial and economic innovation. As population and and better access to goods increase, so does pressure for innovation and liberalization.

Army Description : WIP
Army Weakness : WIP
Naval Description : WIP
Naval Weakness : WIP
Further Military Description : WIP

National Goals :
National Issues : Sharp Class distinctions, growing pressure to liberalize and innovate, massive political corruption among the Nobility/Senate, Independence movements among the Colonies
National Figures of Interest : WIP
National Ambition/Aspirations : WIP

History : WIP
RP Sample: WIP

#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

I decided to add some details under the Religion section. Does it make sense?

I think I reserved Colombia and Peru first...

[Tracian Empire]

I decided to add some details under the Religion section. Does it make sense?

I think I reserved Colombia and Peru first...

And were you to read other posts you would have realized that we've told Pyrghium about it

[Kenobot]

I assume the map is only slightly out of date and the rest of India, Nepal and western Burma isn't taken yet? If so, here's my reservation
Just putting this here for official purposes just in case

Reservation

Nation Name: Yavanarajya Empire (Indo-Greek Kingdom survives)
Territory: India(what's left of it), Nepal, Western Burma
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.

Also I understand you're probably skeptical of someone with the amount of posts I have. Fear not for I've RP'ed extensively here before several years ago under the user of 'reddogkeno101' and had several thousand posts. If it's easier for you if I were to use the discord rather than the OOC thread, let me know.

[Kenobot]

Full Nation Name : Yavanarajya Socialist Republic
Majority/Official Culture : Greco-Indian
Territorial Core : Northern India, Nepal, Western Burma (What is left in the subcontinent essentially)
Territorial Claim : British India, Afghanistan, Indus River Valley (Pakistan) (latter two being considered the ancestral homeland of the culture)
Capital City : Alexandria in the Āryāvarta (Location - New Delhi)
Population : 180,000,000

Government Type : Unitary Socialist Republic - Think the Soviet Union without the federative nature of it
Government Ideology/Policies : Revanchist - Yavanarajya has long been in decline thanks to the decadence of the ruling elites, something which the foreign imperialists have taken advantage of; now controlling much of our former territory. As well as this, the ruling Yavanarajya Socialist Worker's Party is a Totalitarian Communist Party and have enacted 4 Five Year Plans so far, with the next one due at the end of the month at the next sitting of the People's Council.
Government Focus : Widespread reform and consolidation of power
Head of State : President of the People's Council Euthydemus Theos
Head of Government : General-Secretary Diodotus Antimachus
Government Description : The Yavanarajya Socialist Republic is the home of the Communist Revolution. 20 years previous, the 2000 year old Empire of the Euthydemid dynasty collapsed after a century of humiliation at the hands of British

Majority/State Religion : Buddhism has long been the majority religion in the sub-continent, long since having pushed Hinduism, Jainism, Christianity and folk religion from it's borders. However as the empire declined, so did Buddhism; for it was the Greco-Indian Kings and Emperors of old whom spread the religion and were seen to be the guardians of the legacy of the Buddha. With the overthrow of the Euthydemid Dynasty 20 years ago, while Buddhism is still widely practiced; the state atheism of the Yavanarajya Socialist Worker's Party has significantly weakened the already struggling faith of Buddhists across Yavanarajya

Economic Ideologies : Totalitarian Communism
Major Production : Tea, Rice, Cotton Textiles, Silk, Spices, Steel
Economic Description : Yavanarajya finds itself in the middle of its economic transition from a largely agricultural one into an industrialised economy on par with its European counterparts. Previous to the revolution, opium was an extremely lucrative trade for Yavanarajya, however the Yavanarajya Socialist Worker's Party abolished the trade and destroyed all opiate crops in an effort to cleanse the country of the opiate epidemic that had gripped the country for the last century.

Development: Semi-industrialised
Development Description : (As above)

Army Description : The People's Army is the largest land force ever assembled on the sub-continent, with a general staff and officer corps staffed with veterans of the civil war 20 years' previous. More than capable of handing out damage across the subcontinent while backed up with newly built rail lines across the country. However what the People's Army has in manpower and experience, it lacks doubly in its equipment. While a quarter of the Army has modern equipment produced from the Army's ordnance factories, the remaining three quarters is either under-equipped with new equipment or lacking any modern equipment; equipped with scavenged British equipment or primarily with homemade muskets. While certainly an improvement from the Army that emerged from the Civil War 20 years ago, the People's Army still has progress to make before facing off against it's local neighbours.
Army Weakness : Under-equipped
Naval Description : The People's Navy is one of the smallest navies across the globe; quite the opposite of it's land forces counterpart. Consisting of three destroyers, four ironclads (three of which are in mothball) and an outdated light cruiser, the People's Navy is primarily tasked with patrolling Yavanarajya's waters and has very little power projection ability.
Naval Weakness : Small, inexperienced crew, no naval tradition and little shipbuilding capacity.
Further Military Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

National Goals : Complete economic reforms, modernise Army, reunite the subcontinent under Communist rule.
National Issues : As above
National Figures of Interest : President of the People's Council Euthydemus Theos; a hero of the revolution and leader of the Yavanarajya Socialist Worker's Party
National Ambition/Aspirations : Reunite the Subcontinent and spread totalitarian communism

History :

From Humble Beginnings...
From the remains of Alexander's conquests in the Far East when the Greco-Bactrian King Demetrius invaded the Sub-continent in the early 2nd century BCE, the Greco-Indian Kingdom that would later become Yavanarajya was born. Spanning across Afghanistan and into the the Indus River Valley, the Kingdom based itself on both some of the most defensible land on Earth as well as some of the most fertile. After the death of its founder Apollodutus I in 163 BCE, the Kingdom found itself in the middle of a succession crisis that would plunge the Kingdom into chaos on and off until 150 BCE when Menander I of the Euthydemus dynasty became King. Over the course of his reign, he would solidify his hold on power by appointing eunuchs to many positions of power, instituting dynastic succession and ensure great stability for the Kingdom. Towards the ends of his reign, he and his sons and his eldest grandson, Polyxenios, would march with their troops on the neighbouring kingdoms of North-West India and conquer the entire Indus River Valley and Rajasthan in long campaigns that cost many Greek lives. Towards the end of these wars in a battle to take Kannauj, King Menander I led a charge with his sons and grandson against a numerically stronger local garrison, which led to the mortal wounding of the King and his three sons. In the fighting, Polyxenios himself proved to be an extraordinary warrior in the field and merciful ruler, sparing those whom had mortally wounded his father, grandfather and uncles. His heroic displays led to his fellow Greeks proclaiming him the Emperor of the Greeks in the East and likewise the Northern Indian troops proclaiming him to be the messenger of the Buddha on Earth, naming him Patriarch of the Dharma and the rightful successor of Ashoka the Great. Following the ascension of Polyxenios, the Greco-Indian Empire would go on to conquer the lands known as 'Āryāvarta', where he established a new city named 'Alexandria in the Āryāvarta'. This was to become the new capital of the burgeoning Empire and the home for the Emperors of the Euthydemid Dynasty for the next 1900 years.

Consolidation
Over the course of his reign Polyxenios would prove himself truly worthy of the titles bestowed upon him on his ascension to the throne. Polyxenios began the journey that would lead to the modern state of Yavanarajya in 95BCE, by having his children raised by both Greek and Indian tutors and himself adopting the title of Devanampriya, or 'Beloved of the Gods', a title which Ashoka had used centuries before. In 90BCE, the Indo-Scythian hordes began their incursion into the Empire, causing chaos and destruction in Afghanistan, who's people had already felt abandoned by Polyxenios' turn to his Indian subjects, leading to the revolt of a local garrison in Afghanistan. Fortunately, this revolt was put down, but not by Polyxenios' hand but by the Indo-Scythians as they proceeded to sack Arachosia. Learning of this, Polyxenios marched his armies west towards Arachosia and faced the Indo-Scythians in battle at the battle of Arachosia in 85BCE. Proving victories, Polyxenios and his enormous and largely Indian army then followed this up by pushing the Indo-Scythians back into Central Asia. While the Indo-Scythians would continue to harass the Greco-Indian Empire for some time after the death of Polyxenios in 70 BCE, they would never regain their lost strength which they once had; eventually fading into obscurity. Following the defeat of the Indo-Scythians, Polyxenios would retire from most of his duties; giving power to his eldest son, Diomedes.


Diomedes the Great
All Hail Devanampriya Diomedes, Emperor of the Greeks in the East, Patriarch of the Dharma and Emperor of the Indians. It was this last title, which had changed from 'Successor of Ashoka', which was to be the most prominent of them all over the next 34 years of Diomedes' reign. An administrator at heart, Diomedes personally led thorough bureaucratic and administrative reforms across the Empire in the first few years of his reign, admitting thousands of Indians previously kept out of the bureaucracy into it. Appointing the first Indian Chancellor of the small council, the first Indian general and most important of all, the first Indian consort. Diomedes was the first of the Yavanarajya.

The reconquest of India
In 15CE, the Great-Grandson of Diomedes, Apollophanes, came to the throne. It was Apollophanes who dropped both the titles of Emperor of the Greeks in the East and Emperor of the Indians. Instead, Apollophanes adopted the title of Emperor of the Yavanarajya. Upon adopting this title at his coronation, Apollophanes declared his intent to 'reconquer' his birthright as the successor of Ashoka and conquer all of India. With dignitaries of many neighbouring kingdoms present at this ceremony, Apollophanes proved his intent by arresting those dignitaries present and sending them home with a letter demanding each local ruler submit to the authority of Apollophanes or be put to the sword. The Bengali lords and those few remaining northern rulers submitted to Apollophanes; those of the Deccan Plateau however resisted. It was with this, that the war of unification began. Lasting for the almost the entirety of Apollophanes' reign of 15 years, the Deccan plain was covered with the blood of hundreds of thousands of Indians. By the end, Apollophanes' army stood victorious and had subjugated all of the subcontinent.

Splendid Isolation until....
Following the unification war and Apollophanes' death, the Empire turned inwards; not seeking expansion and not interested in foreign entanglements. It remained this way for centuries; occasionally fending off invading migrating tribes from Central Asia, but no real threats as by this stage the Empire was almost 'too big too fail'....that was until the Europeans came East in search of spice, wealth and power. In 1630 the East India Company first arrived on Indian shores. Given permission to trade from several cities in the southern tip of the subcontinent, the East India company eventually began pitting local rulers against each other until they 'helpfully' offered to step in and restore order....for a price. By 1860, that price was too high; even for the here unto silent and passive Emperor, who marched the ill-prepared, under-equipped and largely obsolete army south to retake their land. The First Anglo-Yavanarajya War was, at first, a decisive victory for the Yavanarajya Empire; however once the British government sent reinforcements and nationalised the EIC into the newly formed British Raj, they quickly retook their possessions and made quick work of the much larger Imperial Yavanarajya Army force that was sent to hold the area.


The Beginning of the End
The defeat of the Imperial Army in the First Anglo-Yavanarajya War in 1860 marked the beginning of the end for the Euthydemus Dynasty, which had ruled for near-on 2000 years. Revolutionaries of all colours began to appear across the empire; from hardline nationalists, to democratic revolutionaries and even a few socialists. Eventually, these revolutionaries rose up in revolt once the utterly humiliating terms of peace were decided in the Treaty of London (1862), however with no unified purpose other than to defeat the Emperor, most of the revolutionaries quickly dispersed once the Imperial Guard began firing on them. But not the Yavanarajya Socialist Worker's Party. The Democratic Socialists of the Yavanarajya Socialist Worker's Party charged forward into the barrels of the Imperial Guards' guns, causing the much of the Guard's morale to break and for them to flee, but not before hundreds of the revolutionaries lay dead on the streets of Alexandria in the Āryāvarta. News of these events spread like wildfire, which eventually reached the ears of Theodamas Aniketos; the leader of the Marxist faction of the Yavanarajya Socialist Worker's Party. He had kept his fellow Marxists on the sidelines during the revolution, believing the party's position not strong enough yet. Proved right by this massacre, which also endeared the public to the courage of the party, Theodamas saw an opportunity; he would take control of the party from the crippled Democratic Socialist wing and use the wave of popular support for the party to fill their ranks and secure his position.

The Revolution!
By 1884 the Yavanarajya Socialist Worker's Party, now swelling with Marxists after its takeover by Theodama Aniketos, was poised to strike. Having enveloped the nationalists and left-wing revolutionary movements and making false promises to the democratic revolutionaries, the party was now the most powerful force in all Yavanarajya. It began on New Year's Day 1885 with a bang; the carriage of the ailing Emperor Diomedes XVII was bombed, killing him and his entourage including the heir, Apollodatus. This was followed by two divisions of troops loyal to the party storming Alexandria in the Āryāvarta and the subsequent proclamation of the Yavanarajya Socialist Republic. However, this was not without its opponents. The Emperor's youngest brother, Apollophanus, fled the city and raised an army in rebellion to restore the monarchy. It did not take long however for the newly formed People's Army to chase down the Royalist Army, which it easily defeated in open battle. Following this, royalists across the nation either went into hiding or fled abroad; however it soon became apparent that there would be no pretenders left to take the throne following the capture and execution of the entire Royal family whom had resided at the Imperial palace.

Revolutionary Yavanarajya
With the entire former Empire under the control of the Socialist Worker's Party, Theodama Aniketos was named as the first President of the People's Council and his young protege Euthydemus named the General-Secretary of the Party. Following this, the two began implementing the much needed economic, social and political reforms that would transform the country from a backwater 'Sick man of Asia' into the Modern Socialist State that they wished it to be. First came the 5 year plans which introduced innumerable technological innovations hereunto ignored and exponentially expanded the industrialization of the country, which had been effectively limited to textiles and steel mills until that point. Then came the collectivisation. The aristocracy of old had been hunted down and their property seized by the state, while the merchants who had not submitted to the new regime suffered the same fate. This left much of the countryside unworked; something which if left unchecked could lead to a famine. Knowing of the dangers of famine from the mismanagement of the Imperial administration, the new authorities began collectivising these lands and work soon began on much of them.

Over the course of the next 15 years, the country would steadily progress towards its goal of industrialisation and the dream of a communist utopia. However it was not to be for Theodama Aniketos, who had struggled for years with the stress and anxiety of his new role and finally in 1896 it caught up with him; found dead at his desk passing from exhaustion. Following this, his no-longer-young - now experienced protege Euthydemus Theos took power as President of the People's Council, naming Diodotus Antimachus, the son of a former Imperial general, as his deputy and General-Secretary of the Party. Euthydemus and Antimachus; nationalists first and communists second; are dedicated to one cause; the reunification of Yavanarajya under their banner. Spending the next 5 years continuing the work of his old mentor, Euthydemus put emphasis on improving the local arms industry and instituting military reforms, led by Diodotus whom he appointed minister of war alongside General-Secretary. This 5 year plan for the Army is scheduled to be complete in 1906 and looks set to complete the Army's transformation from rabble and former imperial troops into a unified professional Army that would rival and even perhaps surpass most if not all of its neighbours. As 1906 dawns, Yavanarajya finds herself on the verge of re-emerging as one of the Great Powers, but without friends and with many who would gladly see the revolution crushed. Where shall fate lead her? That remains to be seen...

RP Sample:

#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

[Tracian Empire]

I assume the map is only slightly out of date and the rest of India, Nepal and western Burma isn't taken yet? If so, here's my reservation
Just putting this here for official purposes just in case

Reservation

Nation Name: Yavanarajya Empire (Indo-Greek Kingdom survives)
Territory: India(what's left of it), Nepal, Western Burma
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.

Also I understand you're probably skeptical of someone with the amount of posts I have. Fear not for I've RP'ed extensively here before several years ago under the user of 'reddogkeno101' and had several thousand posts. If it's easier for you if I were to use the discord rather than the OOC thread, let me know.

The south of India is British, but other than that your claim seems to be alright

It will be interesting to see how you explain a Hellenization of India, but I am a bit confused - your reservation is for an Empire, but you're going for a Socialist state?