New Civilizations (2nd Era, OOC, Always Open )

[G-Tech Corporation]

and I'm not going to the mediterranean
Simply because every time I have something to do with nations I'm at the fucking mediterranean.
It just gets boring after a couple of times. If I'm not going to europe then I'm going to south China.
It might not be so "civilised" but there were less forest and more fertile land and their there some bronze age civilisations in the north.

Aw, no Romans?

[Orostan]

and I'm not going to the mediterranean
Simply because every time I have something to do with nations I'm at the fucking mediterranean.
It just gets boring after a couple of times. If I'm not going to europe then I'm going to south China.
It might not be so "civilised" but there were less forest and more fertile land and their there some bronze age civilisations in the north.

I’m in the north and you look close to the coast. The people there are probably aware of me to some degree and the Liangzhu culture which I also trade with.

[Empire of Techkotal]

You know it would probably be the best if you create a powerfull roman NPC just to keep the imperium and the greek empire in line.

[Orostan]

You know it would probably be the best if you create a powerfull roman NPC just to keep the imperium and the greek empire in line.

NPCs have to come from somewhere, but with the imperium having existed for more than 20 years I think some surrounding NPC nations basing themselves off of stolen technology would be realistic.

[Empire of Techkotal]

Orostan this is actually what I wanted, because I have no idea how to make iron or bronze. I already started reading all your IC post and I'm currently at page 42. So I know a litle bit of what I have to expect. While I doubt what you could overtake the region I wont complain, but I know it will take me more than six months to start my civilisation. I mean you were already able to conquer a second city, while just being seven months in this world.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Orostan this is actually what I wanted, because I have no idea how to make iron or bronze. I already started reading all your IC post and I'm currently at page 42. So I know a litle bit of what I have to expect. While I doubt what you could overtake the region I wont complain, but I know it will take me more than six months to start my civilisation. I mean you were already able to conquer a second city, while just being seven months in this world.

Yeah, the OP board still has some thinking to do about China and retcons.

[Orostan]

Orostan this is actually what I wanted, because I have no idea how to make iron or bronze. I already started reading all your IC post and I'm currently at page 42. So I know a litle bit of what I have to expect. While I doubt what you could overtake the region I wont complain, but I know it will take me more than six months to start my civilisation. I mean you were already able to conquer a second city, while just being seven months in this world.

Yeah, the OP board still has some thinking to do about China and retcons.

When you read my posts at the time you had no problems with them. If I knew you would have problems with what I was doing I wouldn’t have done those things.

I can change all the dates on the posts again.

[Empire of Techkotal]

Did someone of you even read Orostans IC posts?

[G-Tech Corporation]

Did someone of you even read Orostans IC posts?

Therein lies the issue. Both Joohan and I have been quite busy for the last few weeks.

[Empire of Techkotal]

Well I did read all of them.
He writes good and long texts, but the time frame in which he develops everything is concerning. I mean dont get me wrong, but building a steel mill after 2 years, having a generator for electrizity and a working industrial sector is little bit too much. He describes how everything functions and I dont doubt most of those things, but would it really be in his reach.
1. The industry he describes is extremly advanced. You could say China is in 19th century.
2. Where would he even get all those people from. I mean I understand that his system functions like the soviet union, but please consider how many people you need on the fields and how many those fields can actually feed. I just dont understand where all those people come from and the food. Even with his irrigation system most of his people would still be peasant. While they might all come from the four citys he "controlls" I dont think there would be enough people that have the right skills.
3. Where does he get all the metal. He is already using iron beams for constructions. Why hasnt his iron deposit run out.
4. The industrial revolution was not very popular among the people and they needed centurys to adapt to it, but everything he introduces has just been accepted. Where are the riots and where are the smiths that lost a huge amount of wealth because of his machines.
5. Why does he already use steam boilers. I mean come on. Look at the other civilisation and how far they went. I dont doubt that you are a metalworker, but I doubt that you would already be able to make steel which is nearly as good as our modern steel. It may be true that you know how to make it, but there is no way for you to get coal. You could get charcoal and in maybe a 50 years of further devolepment you might get lucky and finaly find brown coal. And after centurys maybe coal. But it is impossible for you to actually find coal in such a short time and you must consider that your crude steel pickaxe is probably not gonna make it anyway.

[New Arcadius]

You know it would probably be the best if you create a powerfull roman NPC just to keep the imperium and the greek empire in line.

Rome wouldn't be a relevant power until way later.

The Etruscans are ruling them rn i think

[New Arcadius]

Well I did read all of them.
He writes good and long texts, but the time frame in which he develops everything is concerning. I mean dont get me wrong, but building a steel mill after 2 years, having a generator for electrizity and a working industrial sector is little bit too much. He describes how everything functions and I dont doubt most of those things, but would it really be in his reach.
1. The industry he describes is extremly advanced. You could say China is in 19th century.
2. Where would he even get all those people from. I mean I understand that his system functions like the soviet union, but please consider how many people you need on the fields and how many those fields can actually feed. I just dont understand where all those people come from and the food. Even with his irrigation system most of his people would still be peasant. While they might all come from the four citys he "controlls" I dont think there would be enough people that have the right skills.
3. Where does he get all the metal. He is already using iron beams for constructions. Why hasnt his iron deposit run out.
4. The industrial revolution was not very popular among the people and they needed centurys to adapt to it, but everything he introduces has just been accepted. Where are the riots and where are the smiths that lost a huge amount of wealth because of his machines.
5. Why does he already use steam boilers. I mean come on. Look at the other civilisation and how far they went. I dont doubt that you are a metalworker, but I doubt that you would already be able to make steel which is nearly as good as our modern steel. It may be true that you know how to make it, but there is no way for you to get coal. You could get charcoal and in maybe a 50 years of further devolepment you might get lucky and finaly find brown coal. And after centurys maybe coal. But it is impossible for you to actually find coal in such a short time and you must consider that your crude steel pickaxe is probably not gonna make it anyway.

Agreed, and i think thi sshould be addressed

[UniversalCommons]

The problem is one of progression. There is no good reason to have steel at this time. You might start with working with iron, then learn to mass produce iron, then harden the iron, each thing takes time to develop over time. Then eventually you might get to the point where you have a little steel with carburization. The next obvious step after carburization is probably something like wootz steel, or melting iron and powdered charcoal together in clay containers. Step by step by step. Usually, we build up before we start interacting with other civilizations. There is a certain amount of steady planning in this approach.

The problem with more advanced technologies is that they require several different technologies to get to the point where you can get to the next point. You also have to have the right political mix, or people simply won't make what you want. They will make automated bird whistles and temple doors that open when you light a fire instead of steam engines. Or pipe organs for Athena's temple instead of windmills.

First you learn to collect manure, then you learn to process manure, then you find the swamp gas (thus the bacteria for anaerobic production). Along the way you have to learn to make stone lined pits, make air tight containers-- leather bags, or treated linen, make pipes that won't break easily-- giant bamboo, etc. Each step leads to the next step, it cannot happen easily because you have to fill in the gaps and discover things.

It kinds of like game Civilization where you build a tech tree, and try and find trees that others will not necessary get to immediately.

[New Arcadius]

I know I am hypocritical of saying people are advancing too fast when I made a steel scimitar...

But the thing is, I didn't mass produce it because we have like very little iron, and we don't really have the exact knowledge to make Steel en mass qualities.

And this is all happening inside of Gaukhar's laboratory she made out of a brick place. She has a lot of things inside of her workshop. She also has another place that she holds sculptures of building designs she remembers from Sierra's Pharaoh and Children of the Nile games.

thing is, she isn't building them because the lack of resources to do so, and how big she wants them.

[Plzen]

I didn’t develop steel at all during my IC posts here because essentially G-tech told me no.

Stronger guidelines to better regulate what is or is not plausible is something I’ve put in the suggestion box for my application over a year ago, and right now after months of arguments along these lines that suggestion is looking very prescient indeed.

[Joohan]

Well I did read all of them.
He writes good and long texts, but the time frame in which he develops everything is concerning. I mean dont get me wrong, but building a steel mill after 2 years, having a generator for electrizity and a working industrial sector is little bit too much. He describes how everything functions and I dont doubt most of those things, but would it really be in his reach.
1. The industry he describes is extremly advanced. You could say China is in 19th century.
2. Where would he even get all those people from. I mean I understand that his system functions like the soviet union, but please consider how many people you need on the fields and how many those fields can actually feed. I just dont understand where all those people come from and the food. Even with his irrigation system most of his people would still be peasant. While they might all come from the four citys he "controlls" I dont think there would be enough people that have the right skills.
3. Where does he get all the metal. He is already using iron beams for constructions. Why hasnt his iron deposit run out.
4. The industrial revolution was not very popular among the people and they needed centurys to adapt to it, but everything he introduces has just been accepted. Where are the riots and where are the smiths that lost a huge amount of wealth because of his machines.
5. Why does he already use steam boilers. I mean come on. Look at the other civilisation and how far they went. I dont doubt that you are a metalworker, but I doubt that you would already be able to make steel which is nearly as good as our modern steel. It may be true that you know how to make it, but there is no way for you to get coal. You could get charcoal and in maybe a 50 years of further devolepment you might get lucky and finaly find brown coal. And after centurys maybe coal. But it is impossible for you to actually find coal in such a short time and you must consider that your crude steel pickaxe is probably not gonna make it anyway.

I and G have addressed Orostan's progress and we've retconned quite a bit. They no longer have the capabilities of producing steel, boilers, electrical generators, and the usage of iron has been since much more limited.

In their most recent post, they had a peasent rebellion those people who were against government centralization, and will be experiencing more in the future ( events incoming ).

[Joohan]

I didn’t develop steel at all during my IC posts here because essentially G-tech told me no.

Stronger guidelines to better regulate what is or is not plausible is something I’ve put in the suggestion box for my application over a year ago, and right now after months of arguments along these lines that suggestion is looking very prescient indeed.

I and G actually have begun to crack down a lot more on it recently ( our own deviance included ). I've even cracked down on G's repeating crossbows and structurally unfeasible.

I don't want to create a technological tier system with tech and development, like it were a sid meiers game. I want people to be able to progress whatever fields that they desire, so long as they can prove that they are capable of doing so logically.

I've been a lot more conservative about what is realistically permissible as of late, something ( you're right ), I should have been a while back.

[Empire of Techkotal]

If thats the case I could try to make balckpowder. The process is very easy and I already learned how to get a pure from non metals. So i could try to make Potassium nitrate or how it is also known Salpeter.
Sulfur was already available during the time and used for bleaching clothes in china and egypt. Coalddust is very easy to make. You basicly just have to grind it down, but be carefull, if there is to much in the air it explodes and at last you can take Salpeter from wet walls. Wet walls cristallize often Salpeter. You would just have to svratch it from the walls and then try to destill it. Afterwards you have to recrystallize it.

[Joohan]

If thats the case I could try to make balckpowder. The process is very easy and I already learned how to get a pure from non metals. So i could try to make Potassium nitrate or how it is also known Salpeter.
Sulfur was already available during the time and used for bleaching clothes in china and egypt. Coalddust is very easy to make. You basicly just have to grind it down, but be carefull, if there is to much in the air it explodes and at last you can take Salpeter from wet walls. Wet walls cristallize often Salpeter. You would just have to svratch it from the walls and then try to destill it. Afterwards you have to recrystallize it.

You might want to work on getting settled down first ya know. Have you decided where that is yet?

[Empire of Techkotal]

But it would probably still take years of trial and error, because I wouldnt have equipment as good as today.

[Empire of Techkotal]

And yes look into my app.

[Joohan]

Author Applicaiton
Name: Alfred Schmidt
Age: 18
Height and Weight: 185 cm and 59,5 kg
Skin, hair, and eye description: white skin, brown eyes, brown hair that grows until he cant see good and cuts it.
( Optional ) Picture:

Prior Profession: none at least not yet
Level of education ( specify degrees or note worthy classes ): finisched MSA and learned for two years at a high school of science.
Physique description: He cant lift heavy objects, but does have lots of stamina. He is able to work a lot physicly. Dont ask me why, it just works. He is myopic, while not so bad that he cant see anything, but it is impossible to read a sign, that is 30 meters away.
Useful skills:
- Well I'm not perfect in anything. I just have a basic idea of most things and I can already do many things, but not the advanced stuff.


National Origin: Federal Republic of Germany
What were you doing prior to falling asleep and awakening in the past?: He was probably playing a Total War game either Medieval II/ Rome II or Warhammer II.
Description of personality: friendly, helpfull, unorganized, inpatient,
Where in the world are you landing?: I would like to land in south China near Xianyou County. Its located in the Fujian region and it is southwest to Putian.

Autobiography/Biography ( paragraph minimum ): He was born in Baden Würtenberg outside of the big city of Stutgart in a village. In his childhood he brwaled with others and made a small pottery course. Later his family went to the capital Berlin. There he went to elmantary school and learned a lot about history.
Later in the secondary school he soon found himself isolated and only really being able to make conversations with the smart ones. Later he grew found of physics and learned a little bit about it. Because most pupil on a secondary school dont go to high school, they had to take part at a practical course. In the fist two years at the secondary school he had to paticipate in a metal work course. There he learned a little bit of how to work with metals. In the 9. and 10. grade he had to take internships. The first one at a survey company and the second one by a Stonemason. In the 10. garde he started interesting himself more for chemistry and learned a little bit about it. After getting his MSA he went on a high school for science. Soon realising what it wasnt what he had invisioned. He was an a average pupil in the high school. There he normally got bad grades and didnt always listen. Often he draw picture of systems, ships and primitive machines, while combining things he had learned. Or he draw pictures of buildings. In school he had to work in the labratory and would learn how to work with the materials. Some times he would be given a task and should make the experiment all on his own. Because of the hard and often not interesting lessons he started playing more Pc games.
The most interesting classes there political science and technical chemistry. He learned how to use the Laboratory equipment. He and the others also had to learn the measuring principles, a methode how to make pure substances and how to check what substances that are. But at one fatefull day after having played a lot again. He went to bed and never woke up in his home again.

Writing Sample: Just a sample I wrote for another App: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=emp ... ok/id=main


( Optional on down)
What are your intentions for this RP, what's the long term goal?: The goal would be to establish a small empire that interacts with the regional powers. A long term goal would probably be to spread the influence of my empire as far and wide as possible and to explore as much as possibel.
What people or places are you taking inspiration from?: Persons: Trajan and Hadrian Places: Rome, Carthage, Macedonia, the Teutonic Order, Teotihuacan
Why did you chose to land where you did?: Its far away from the Powder keg in europe, but there is at least one player and a NPC nation. I never played something in China so it should be interesting.
What vibe should we get from your civilization and it's culture?: I would probably try to establish a mixture of greek and chinese culture and looking at how far they are developed I would probably mix it first with maya and aztec culutere.
What are your character's motivations?: 1. survive 2. explain the situation 3. try to gather information about the world 4. find a place to live and influence the area.
Theme Song?: I will find one as soon as I need one. Right now there is no need for a Theme Song.
What do you wanna see in this RP? What would make it better?: I want to see the journees of the characters and the rise of their nations. But it would be nice if we would keep it simple. I would appreciate more NPC nations, maybe I have to make some. Because it is more interesting with more diversity and conflicts. I just dont like the huge empire what already exist in stupid locations. You know geography plays a huge role in where empire rise, but I doesnt seem to apply here.

accepted

[Orostan]

Well I did read all of them.
He writes good and long texts, but the time frame in which he develops everything is concerning. I mean dont get me wrong, but building a steel mill after 2 years, having a generator for electrizity and a working industrial sector is little bit too much. He describes how everything functions and I dont doubt most of those things, but would it really be in his reach.
1. The industry he describes is extremly advanced. You could say China is in 19th century.
2. Where would he even get all those people from. I mean I understand that his system functions like the soviet union, but please consider how many people you need on the fields and how many those fields can actually feed. I just dont understand where all those people come from and the food. Even with his irrigation system most of his people would still be peasant. While they might all come from the four citys he "controlls" I dont think there would be enough people that have the right skills.
3. Where does he get all the metal. He is already using iron beams for constructions. Why hasnt his iron deposit run out.
4. The industrial revolution was not very popular among the people and they needed centurys to adapt to it, but everything he introduces has just been accepted. Where are the riots and where are the smiths that lost a huge amount of wealth because of his machines.
5. Why does he already use steam boilers. I mean come on. Look at the other civilisation and how far they went. I dont doubt that you are a metalworker, but I doubt that you would already be able to make steel which is nearly as good as our modern steel. It may be true that you know how to make it, but there is no way for you to get coal. You could get charcoal and in maybe a 50 years of further devolepment you might get lucky and finaly find brown coal. And after centurys maybe coal. But it is impossible for you to actually find coal in such a short time and you must consider that your crude steel pickaxe is probably not gonna make it anyway.

I and G have addressed Orostan's progress and we've retconned quite a bit. They no longer have the capabilities of producing steel, boilers, electrical generators, and the usage of iron has been since much more limited.

In their most recent post, they had a peasent rebellion those people who were against government centralization, and will be experiencing more in the future ( events incoming ).

The peasant stuff wasn't about entirely about government centralization, that was one among several reasons. Also I thought we agreed my electric generator was basically useless until more research is put into it and G-Tech said the issue with boilers would be finding working sealant for them. I already RPed producing a prototype boiler out of clay and then making a low pressure wrought iron boiler, and G-Tech and I both agreed that an iron boiler can't do meaningful mechanical work and that even a demonstration cylinder and valve gear is a ways away because I lack the metal working capacity and technology to produce the large amount of complex components I'd need to use for that.

Maybe I'm leaning on a different interpretation of what you said than what you meant but I hope we can get all clear about this.

Well I did read all of them.
He writes good and long texts, but the time frame in which he develops everything is concerning. I mean dont get me wrong, but building a steel mill after 2 years, having a generator for electrizity and a working industrial sector is little bit too much. He describes how everything functions and I dont doubt most of those things, but would it really be in his reach.
1. The industry he describes is extremly advanced. You could say China is in 19th century.
2. Where would he even get all those people from. I mean I understand that his system functions like the soviet union, but please consider how many people you need on the fields and how many those fields can actually feed. I just dont understand where all those people come from and the food. Even with his irrigation system most of his people would still be peasant. While they might all come from the four citys he "controlls" I dont think there would be enough people that have the right skills.
3. Where does he get all the metal. He is already using iron beams for constructions. Why hasnt his iron deposit run out.
4. The industrial revolution was not very popular among the people and they needed centurys to adapt to it, but everything he introduces has just been accepted. Where are the riots and where are the smiths that lost a huge amount of wealth because of his machines.
5. Why does he already use steam boilers. I mean come on. Look at the other civilisation and how far they went. I dont doubt that you are a metalworker, but I doubt that you would already be able to make steel which is nearly as good as our modern steel. It may be true that you know how to make it, but there is no way for you to get coal. You could get charcoal and in maybe a 50 years of further devolepment you might get lucky and finaly find brown coal. And after centurys maybe coal. But it is impossible for you to actually find coal in such a short time and you must consider that your crude steel pickaxe is probably not gonna make it anyway.

1. Not quite yet. I don't have the infrastructure for industrialization, and building that infrastructure has been a major project of mine which I've mentioned in many posts.
2. Most construction and non-agricultural work is done during the winter. Also, with the more widespread use of the plow and processing equipment for rice the amount of labor needed in fields to produce all the food I need has been reduced. I've also been trying to get rice from the countryside.
3. Iron is being mined in the hills around Luoyang and to a lesser extent Zhengzhou. The deposits there are small and are extracted via open pit mining. Joohan agreed with me that this was possible for now - but in the future I need to go north to get into the much more plentiful iron deposits there. That was going to be a major bit of plot later.
4. The industrial revolution was not popular because the benefits of that technology were not used to improve the lives of workers, while the negatives of that technology were forced onto the workers. Industrial labor conditions were also imposed in England and other countries by enclosure acts, which were extremely harmful to rural people and forced them into cities. I have used increased productivity to increase quality of life.
5. I don't have proper steel and I don't have steam boilers. Coal is also plentiful around Luoyang and requires little work to find.

[Joohan]

Also I thought we agreed my electric generator was basically useless until more research is put into it

I did not give it the okay.

and G-Tech said the issue with boilers would be finding working sealant for them.

" I said if he wanted to boil water in pans underneath a major building for heat in winter, there's no reason he can't do that. That's, of course, night and day compared to a boiler, " - G-tech

2. Most construction and non-agricultural work is done during the winter. Also, with the more widespread use of the plow and processing equipment for rice the amount of labor needed in fields to produce all the food I need has been reduced. I've also been trying to get rice from the countryside.

Not by that much. As of 1776, in the United States, 90% of the population was involved in agriculture.

3. Iron is being mined in the hills around Luoyang and to a lesser extent Zhengzhou. The deposits there are small and are extracted via open pit mining. Joohan agreed with me that this was possible for now - but in the future I need to go north to get into the much more plentiful iron deposits there. That was going to be a major bit of plot later.

Their running dry should be considered now.

[Orostan]

Also I thought we agreed my electric generator was basically useless until more research is put into it

I did not give it the okay.

and G-Tech said the issue with boilers would be finding working sealant for them.

" I said if he wanted to boil water in pans underneath a major building for heat in winter, there's no reason he can't do that. That's, of course, night and day compared to a boiler, " - G-tech

2. Most construction and non-agricultural work is done during the winter. Also, with the more widespread use of the plow and processing equipment for rice the amount of labor needed in fields to produce all the food I need has been reduced. I've also been trying to get rice from the countryside.

Not by that much. As of 1776, in the United States, 90% of the population was involved in agriculture.

3. Iron is being mined in the hills around Luoyang and to a lesser extent Zhengzhou. The deposits there are small and are extracted via open pit mining. Joohan agreed with me that this was possible for now - but in the future I need to go north to get into the much more plentiful iron deposits there. That was going to be a major bit of plot later.

Their running dry should be considered now.

1. I wasn’t even going to use electricity for anything other than maybe cooking some rice. I thought we agreed I couldn’t do much with it, especially because I can’t even generate that much electric power.
2. G Tech and I talked and he said even if I did make a boiler I wouldn’t have good sealant. I responded by saying I could use birch tar.
3. Sure, but there have been big increases in productivity and farmers can’t do much during the winter unless they’re making winter crops, which is not going to be the majority of farms probably.
4. I thought we were working on the assumption that they were constantly running dry and that I was constantly mining in new places.