New Civilizations (2nd Era, OOC, Always Open )

[Kelmet]

Secret Police coming.

Oh please, we're not the Commonwealth. We don't pussy foot around our authoritarianism - there's nothing secret about our death squads.

Nice

[Alaroma]

Secret Police coming.

Oh please, we're not the Commonwealth. We don't pussy foot around our authoritarianism - there's nothing secret about our death squads.

Well damn, good to know.

[Joohan]

Oh please, we're not the Commonwealth. We don't pussy foot around our authoritarianism - there's nothing secret about our death squads.

Well damn, good to know.

#VirtueBased

[Lazarian]

It's gonna be real awkward when Mark ascends to power off Clara's recommendation...and then tries to abolish the secret police and establish religious freedom (slowly, through the proper parliamentary channels, of course). Of course, he's no saint. The raiding's not going anywhere - if anything, it's going to increase.

New citizens gotta come from somewhere, after all!

[Alaroma]

It's gonna be real awkward when Mark ascends to power off Clara's recommendation...and then tries to abolish the secret police and establish religious freedom. Of course, he's no saint. The raiding's not going anywhere - if anything, it's going to increase.

New citizens gotta come from somewhere, after all!

This all assumes the Commonwealth gets through the next war.

[Lazarian]

It's gonna be real awkward when Mark ascends to power off Clara's recommendation...and then tries to abolish the secret police and establish religious freedom. Of course, he's no saint. The raiding's not going anywhere - if anything, it's going to increase.

New citizens gotta come from somewhere, after all!

This all assumes the Commonwealth gets through the next war.

Even if they lose terribly, I feel like worse case scenario it'd just Balkanize and shatter, leaving client kingdoms ready and eager to expand. Full occupation of a hostile state couldn't be successfully pulled off by the USA in Iraq - I don't know how the Imperium could have the resources to manage it.

[Khasinkonia]

My current plan is to roll a list of nations and places to drop in at, since I’m indecisive and I feel like that would be more fitting anyway. So I’ll check back in soon, hopefully with a completed app!

[G-Tech Corporation]

This all assumes the Commonwealth gets through the next war.

Even if they lose terribly, I feel like worse case scenario it'd just Balkanize and shatter, leaving client kingdoms ready and eager to expand. Full occupation of a hostile state couldn't be successfully pulled off by the USA in Iraq - I don't know how the Imperium could have the resources to manage it.

Oh yeah, occupation is 100% not on the cards. We'll just back existing moderate factions near our borders, to hold back the less reasonable Norse and gradually trammel that flame. Over time, culture, military realities, and trade will mold the Norse into a gentler, kinder people.

[Plzen]

You guys went through four pages of OOC while I was asleep?

As a lawyer of international law, this argument thoroughly interests me. If you guys want any expert opinion, feel free to ask.

Well, let me do my best with my limited skills of persuasion.

This peace treaty, which ended the last war between our two States, is the legal basis for our justifications. I do not think that asserting the modern principle of national sovereignty is unnecessarily harsh, considering that our signatory partner agreed to do the same.

First of all, let me direct your attention to Article 13, and the definition of the term used in Article 2. The Imperium has agreed, in essence, that the customs and traditions of the Imperium shall not apply to the Commonwealth. Are differences in what behaviour is considered “moral” or “intolerably unnatural” an ordinary aspect of the differences in customs and traditions between countries? Yes - e.g. sodomy laws. Trying to enforce Imperial attitudes on the Commonwealth is, in principle, a violation of these terms.

Next, on more immediate matters, please read over Article 15. The Imperium has agreed to the principle of territorial sovereignty. The Imperium violating the terms of this agreement in retaliation for said act, the enforcement of Commonwealth law on Imperial citizens in Commonwealth territory, is a breach of agreement on part of the Imperium, not the Commonwealth.

Of course, it could be argued that the measures the Imperium took in return, the internment of certain Commonwealth citizens in the Imperium, cannot be considered a violation of the terms set out in this agreement. I will admit that this is probably more reasonable than the assertion that these sanctions were a violation of terms. That is why the Commonwealth response was to intern Imperial citizens in the Commonwealth - a reciprocal measure that must be legitimate if the Imperial action was legitimate.

G-Tech’s response to this is that a reasonable interpretation of an agreement requires a reasonable interpretation of the terms used, and that he feels that any reasonable definition will consider laws “in violation of natural law” to not be a part of national sovereignty.

The obvious implication is that the Commonwealth enforcing its laws on Imperial citizens is not a permissible action under the terms of Article 15 because the Imperium does not consider the laws being enforced to be the “laws and customs” of the Commonwealth, which is what I was responding to earlier - the Commonwealth does not find it at all reasonable that the Imperium can unilaterally dictate whether any given law is ethical and consider that law to not be in effect if it finds it to not be so.

Finally, I will direct your attention to Article 14, then to Article 20. I’d really like to hear G-Tech try and explain away what is currently happening in Tharinsford as not being in violation of these terms.

I think it is entirely logical, in fact, I feel that I was not being as assertive of the Commonwealth’s rights agreed to by both States as I could have been, that the Commonwealth considers this peace agreement to have been breached entirely through the Imperium’s bad faith and no fault of the Commonwealth’s own, and that consequently the war intended to be concluded by this peace treaty is still ongoing.

[The Orson Empire]

Dear lord, this is becoming complex. That peace treaty reads like something that could actually exist.

[Joohan]

Dear lord, this is becoming complex. That peace treaty reads like something that could actually exist.

Plzn is, how do I put this in the most delicate way possible, anal?

[Ralnis]

Courtesy of a pleasantly unexpected telegram conversation with Joohan, we've figured out a way to make a workable and nearly fully accurate app, so I retract my previous statement, and will be applying in due time. Given that I am not currently a doctor, I'm afraid I can't offer that resource to anyone, but I can offer a teenager who adores fiddling with writing systems, if anyone's still interested in new blood.

Go to Haida Gwaii we need written Haida pls.

I'm sorry, did you actually wind up developing gunpowder? I don't remeber that from your posts, and i'm pretty sure I or G said no to that? Could you link me the post where you developed it?

My dude hasn't invented powder, he only has the gunpowder knowledge. Meaning Ralnis is just dragging me over to Ur so I can be his science advisor or something in exchange for missionary freedom.

You bet your ass I will do that after Uruk gets their well earned spanking.

[Cainesland]

I’ll be on vacation next week and have deadlines coming up the following week. I will probably not be posting much, if at all, for the next two weeks.

[The Orson Empire]

Dear lord, this is becoming complex. That peace treaty reads like something that could actually exist.

Plzn is, how do I put this in the most delicate way possible, anal?

I suspected that after interacting with her so much, but this proves it.

[Alaroma]

Go to Haida Gwaii we need written Haida pls.


My dude hasn't invented powder, he only has the gunpowder knowledge. Meaning Ralnis is just dragging me over to Ur so I can be his science advisor or something in exchange for missionary freedom.

You bet your ass I will do that after Uruk gets their well earned spanking.

Wild times are ahead.

[G-Tech Corporation]

-snip-

Yes, yes, Plzen, as we’ve established before, you’re a dangerous radical atheist with no concept of morality aside from nihilistic existentialism, and so any proposition of value or justice independent of culture is a fruitless use of hot air. Obviously every citizen in the Commonwealth has been convinced of this wildly popular ideology and shall now fight to the death to defend their right to butcher whosoever they please at random. The Nazis would have been proud, up with the Overman, forward the Eternal Revolution, etc. etc.

At this point every man, woman, or child saved from the pyre of Roskilde’s lunacy is a victory in their own right. If the Imperium has to violate the letter of a treaty whose spirit Roskilde has already desecrated in order to save said citizens, eh. Nothing of value was lost.

[Alaroma]

-snip-

Yes, yes, Plzen, as we’ve established before, you’re a dangerous radical atheist with no concept of morality aside from nihilistic existentialism, and so any proposition of value or justice independent of culture is a fruitless use of hot air. Obviously every citizen in the Commonwealth has been convinced of this wildly popular ideology and shall now fight to the death to defend their right to butcher whosoever they please at random. The Nazis would have been proud, up with the Overman, forward the Eternal Revolution, etc. etc.

At this point every man, woman, or child saved from the pure of Roskilde’s lunacy is a victory in their own right. If the Imperium has to violate the letter of a treaty whose spirit Roskilde has already desecrated in order to save said citizens, eh. Nothing of value was lost.

Slay king.

[Joohan]

-snip-

Yes, yes, Plzen, as we’ve established before, you’re a dangerous radical atheist with no concept of morality aside from nihilistic existentialism, and so any proposition of value or justice independent of culture is a fruitless use of hot air. Obviously every citizen in the Commonwealth has been convinced of this wildly popular ideology and shall now fight to the death to defend their right to butcher whosoever they please at random. The Nazis would have been proud, up with the Overman, forward the Eternal Revolution, etc. etc.

At this point every man, woman, or child saved from the pyre of Roskilde’s lunacy is a victory in their own right. If the Imperium has to violate the letter of a treaty whose spirit Roskilde has already desecrated in order to save said citizens, eh. Nothing of value was lost.

Let's chill there G

[G-Tech Corporation]

Yes, yes, Plzen, as we’ve established before, you’re a dangerous radical atheist with no concept of morality aside from nihilistic existentialism, and so any proposition of value or justice independent of culture is a fruitless use of hot air. Obviously every citizen in the Commonwealth has been convinced of this wildly popular ideology and shall now fight to the death to defend their right to butcher whosoever they please at random. The Nazis would have been proud, up with the Overman, forward the Eternal Revolution, etc. etc.

At this point every man, woman, or child saved from the pyre of Roskilde’s lunacy is a victory in their own right. If the Imperium has to violate the letter of a treaty whose spirit Roskilde has already desecrated in order to save said citizens, eh. Nothing of value was lost.

Let's chill there G

Oh, Plzen has been very clear in the past that Clara’s view of morality is that it is entirely subjective, essentially a lie agreed upon between friends. Thus it is axiomatic that any appeals to natural law are without validity to Clara and Plzen.

[Joohan]

Let's chill there G

Oh, Plzen has been very clear in the past that Clara’s view of morality is that it is entirely subjective, essentially a lie agreed upon between friends. Thus it is axiomatic that any appeals to natural law are without validity to Clara and Plzen.

Well, if that is her self described philosophy, then you're fine - but it came off as something hostile.

It's fine for Authors to bicker OOC, but as a general warning to everyone, do not take it seriously! This is a game.

[Ralnis]

Oh, Plzen has been very clear in the past that Clara’s view of morality is that it is entirely subjective, essentially a lie agreed upon between friends. Thus it is axiomatic that any appeals to natural law are without validity to Clara and Plzen.

Well, if that is her self described philosophy, then you're fine - but it came off as something hostile.

It's fine for Authors to bicker OOC, but as a general warning to everyone, do not take it seriously! This is a game.

I will take this seriously! Uruk needs a spanking!

[Plzen]

Dear lord, this is becoming complex. That peace treaty reads like something that could actually exist.

Well, that’s not strictly speaking true - an international treaty that actually exists would have far fewer grammar errors, eh? Writing has never been my strong suit and a few things slipped through my proofreading.

It’s not like I can edit the document to correct errors now, can I... the text has already been agreed-upon as it currently reads.

---

Well, if that is her self described philosophy, then you're fine - but it came off as something hostile.

I don’t think G-Tech means anything genuinely hostile by it - a playful exchange of insults is a normal part of OOC banter. Doubly so in NationStates where different outlooks on life routinely clash...

I appreciate you being defensive of me, but you can rest assured that if G-Tech genuinely offends me I will telegram him to cut it out myself.

Plzn is, how do I put this in the most delicate way possible, anal?

I prefer the term precise, sir! A vague agreement isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on, except between friends.

[Joohan]

just making sue

[Joohan]

hmm... I mention Icedonia looking to invest into medical research and G pop's off with a post about him playing doctor an hour later...

Interesting... Reminiscent of the whole cannon business no? Bort's, we did it! It's not us reacting to him anymore, it's him reacting to us!

[Plzen]

-snip-

Honestly, I consider the IC to be the equivalent of the front page of a daily newspaper. Incremental progress that would not make news headlines don’t have to be on the IC unless the roleplayer in question wants it to be.

I mean, yes, the last post was quite the emotional moment for Viktor, but has the Imperium really not been sinking more resources into healthcare for each passing month over the past two decades? I’d argue that, IC post or not, the Imperium should be considered to have been.

This is more of a character development moment for Viktor than it is a major point of change in the Imperium, I’d argue.

Shiny new cannons, headline-worthy. The slow trickle of marginal improvements that bronze-age medical research can eke out, not really.