Washington 2017: The U.S. Political Roleplay Pt. XII OOC

[Dentali]

I agree, we have seen NONE of it. Simon is the sole voice saying "this is not going to play" and pleading some moderation. We could have seen polls saying MINUTEMEN HAS 18% APPROVAL RATING or something to that effect. Also even with that I do not see anything that could overcome the vote splitting of the Progressive Party.

As far as I can recall, we have not held polling for legislation in-roleplay, or had that request. I cannot see where backlash has not been seen in controversy over the bill in its consideration, repeated criticism after its passage, and bills counter to it introduced afterwards. The Noble shooting only further has pushed opposition towards the pro-gun tack taken by the administration.

The Progressives will not remain nearly as significant in effect as in 2016.

Clearly that has not been felt. And I have TGed TNS about polling many many times, he has a significant backlog and is the only one capable of doing polling so what is the point in asking him for more polling.

And I completely disagree that any of the backlash has been shown

[Prolieum]

As far as I can recall, we have not held polling for legislation in-roleplay, or had that request. I cannot see where backlash has not been seen in controversy over the bill in its consideration, repeated criticism after its passage, and bills counter to it introduced afterwards. The Noble shooting only further has pushed opposition towards the pro-gun tack taken by the administration.

The Progressives will not remain nearly as significant in effect as in 2016.

Clearly that has not been felt. And I have TGed TNS about polling many many times, he has a significant backlog and is the only one capable of doing polling so what is the point in asking him for more polling.

And I completely disagree that any of the backlash has been shown

In that case, what demonstration of backlash do you believe would be necessary to see it 'shown'?

[Dentali]

We have based our assumptions off of a trove of real life polling that seems to be ignored.

The concerns over polling have been the most troubling raised.

The other three concerns-pace of play, lingering characters, and the Republican supermajority, are all ones that I believe are both manageable and managed. The former has already been directly addressed, and both of the latter are on pace to be addressed via the midterm elections.

The polling concern, I believe, deserves greater discussion, once we have settled the ship.

Lingering characters you do do right now by updating the OOC. The Republican supermajority will take months OOC time to handle if we are lucky and frankly the damage done on the legislative side will by no means end. Minutemen and POMA can't be repealed by a Democratic house and the left will never take over the senate in 2018

[Dentali]

Clearly that has not been felt. And I have TGed TNS about polling many many times, he has a significant backlog and is the only one capable of doing polling so what is the point in asking him for more polling.

And I completely disagree that any of the backlash has been shown

In that case, what demonstration of backlash do you believe would be necessary to see it 'shown'?

Polling and protests across the country

[Uttland]

Clearly that has not been felt. And I have TGed TNS about polling many many times, he has a significant backlog and is the only one capable of doing polling so what is the point in asking him for more polling.

And I completely disagree that any of the backlash has been shown

In that case, what demonstration of backlash do you believe would be necessary to see it 'shown'?

More than just assuming off player character responses, that's for certain.

[Prolieum]

In that case, what demonstration of backlash do you believe would be necessary to see it 'shown'?

Polling and protests across the country

Noted. Having polls for major legislation can be a change that we discuss implementing.

At least one major protest event was held in-character under player action. Protests typically have been done by player action, and this, with four player characters involved, seems a significant one, demonstrative of backlash.

Apologies, the link.

[Dentali]

Polling and protests across the country

Noted. Having polls for major legislation can be a change that we discuss implementing.

At least one major protest event was held in-character under player action. Protests typically have been done by player action, and this, with four player characters involved, seems a significant one, demonstrative of backlash.

Apologies, the link.

Yea mr incest legalization really represents America at large

[Prolieum]

Noted. Having polls for major legislation can be a change that we discuss implementing.

At least one major protest event was held in-character under player action. Protests typically have been done by player action, and this, with four player characters involved, seems a significant one, demonstrative of backlash.

Apologies, the link.

Yea mr incest legalization really represents America at large

The House Minority Leader participated in the event.

[Uttland]

Polling and protests across the country

Noted. Having polls for major legislation can be a change that we discuss implementing.

At least one major protest event was held in-character under player action. Protests typically have been done by player action, and this, with four player characters involved, seems a significant one, demonstrative of backlash.

Apologies, the link.

While that very much was a significant event, it really has been the only form of pushback so far, and even so it's rather meaningless since there's no way the opposition will have a swing big enough to even enact anything given the supermajority. And further, without anything besides that one protests we can't gage much of anything. Polling would have to have accompanied it, but nothing. I sincerely doubt one recorded protest would've changed much of anything.

[Prolieum]

The concerns over polling have been the most troubling raised.

The other three concerns-pace of play, lingering characters, and the Republican supermajority, are all ones that I believe are both manageable and managed. The former has already been directly addressed, and both of the latter are on pace to be addressed via the midterm elections.

The polling concern, I believe, deserves greater discussion, once we have settled the ship.

Lingering characters you do do right now by updating the OOC. The Republican supermajority will take months OOC time to handle if we are lucky and frankly the damage done on the legislative side will by no means end. Minutemen and POMA can't be repealed by a Democratic house and the left will never take over the senate in 2018

That would be the standard progression of politics, then, as much as the GOP was unable to repeal the Assault Weapons Ban following its passage, or as much as, currently, the Democrats are unable to repeal the Republican tax bill without the Senate under their control.

The Republicans are poised to suffer losses in the midterms because of an over-aggressive agenda, in a frequently seen political course of events. The Democrats passed the ACA in 2008 under their own supermajority, and suffered a disastrous midterm loss following the opposing party aggressively campaigning against it. 2018 is likely to closely mirror 2010.

[Prolieum]

Noted. Having polls for major legislation can be a change that we discuss implementing.

At least one major protest event was held in-character under player action. Protests typically have been done by player action, and this, with four player characters involved, seems a significant one, demonstrative of backlash.

Apologies, the link.

While that very much was a significant event, it really has been the only form of pushback so far, and even so it's rather meaningless since there's no way the opposition will have a swing big enough to even enact anything given the supermajority. And further, without anything besides that one protests we can't gage much of anything. Polling would have to have accompanied it, but nothing. I sincerely doubt one recorded protest would've changed much of anything.

That is something that we should look to include in the future, then. I do not believe there was any request for polling at the time that I recall, but we can look to include it for future legislation. If that has public support, then I would consider it a positive change.

[Uttland]

Lingering characters you do do right now by updating the OOC. The Republican supermajority will take months OOC time to handle if we are lucky and frankly the damage done on the legislative side will by no means end. Minutemen and POMA can't be repealed by a Democratic house and the left will never take over the senate in 2018

That would be the standard progression of politics, then, as much as the GOP was unable to repeal the Assault Weapons Ban following its passage, or as much as, currently, the Democrats are unable to repeal the Republican tax bill without the Senate under their control.

The Republicans are poised to suffer losses in the midterms because of an over-aggressive agenda, in a frequently seen political course of events. The Democrats passed the ACA in 2008 under their own supermajority, and suffered a disastrous midterm loss following the opposing party aggressively campaigning against it. 2018 is likely to closely mirror 2010.

The Dems had 256 while the GOP had 179 in 2010, the Republicans have 306+, and the Dems less than a hundred and will suffer vote splitting from the Progs even if the latter less significant. The swing won't be large enough.

[Prolieum]

That would be the standard progression of politics, then, as much as the GOP was unable to repeal the Assault Weapons Ban following its passage, or as much as, currently, the Democrats are unable to repeal the Republican tax bill without the Senate under their control.

The Republicans are poised to suffer losses in the midterms because of an over-aggressive agenda, in a frequently seen political course of events. The Democrats passed the ACA in 2008 under their own supermajority, and suffered a disastrous midterm loss following the opposing party aggressively campaigning against it. 2018 is likely to closely mirror 2010.

The Dems had 256 while the GOP had 179 in 2010, the Republicans have 306+, and the Dems less than a hundred and will suffer vote splitting from the Progs even if the latter less significant. The swing won't be large enough.

It may or may not be large enough to flip the House entirely, I do not not know, but it is most certainly within the realm of possibility. The larger number of seats held is driven largely by a substantial number of seats that are functionally indefensible, essentially guaranteed losses. The results will, beyond any doubt, drive the balance of power in Congress much closer to the median.

[Yaruqo]

The Dems had 256 while the GOP had 179 in 2010, the Republicans have 306+, and the Dems less than a hundred and will suffer vote splitting from the Progs even if the latter less significant. The swing won't be large enough.

It may or may not be large enough to flip the House entirely, I do not not know, but it is most certainly within the realm of possibility. The larger number of seats held is driven largely by a substantial number of seats that are functionally indefensible, essentially guaranteed losses. The results will, beyond any doubt, drive the balance of power in Congress much closer to the median.

Sorry, I couldn't help but notice this and I ran the math. Let's say that, like in 2018, the GOP lost 15% of their total House seats (now again, this was not a great scenario for them due to Trump and strong campaigns by the Democrats). IRL, GOP went down from 235 seats to 199. Now let's apply that worst case scenario figure to the GOP in this RP. 306 seats, 15% lost to Dems/Progs. That's still 260 seats. The other 175 seats would be split among Dems and Progressives. A worst case scenario wouldn't dent their majority. How can I play a Dem in a House that will apparently remain Republican for four RP years at least?

[Prolieum]

It may or may not be large enough to flip the House entirely, I do not not know, but it is most certainly within the realm of possibility. The larger number of seats held is driven largely by a substantial number of seats that are functionally indefensible, essentially guaranteed losses. The results will, beyond any doubt, drive the balance of power in Congress much closer to the median.

Sorry, I couldn't help but notice this and I ran the math. Let's say that, like in 2018, the GOP lost 15% of their total House seats (now again, this was not a great scenario for them due to Trump and strong campaigns by the Democrats). IRL, GOP went down from 235 seats to 199. Now let's apply that worst case scenario figure to the GOP in this RP. 306 seats, 15% lost to Dems/Progs. That's still 260 seats. The other 175 seats would be split among Dems and Progressives. A worst case scenario wouldn't dent their majority. How can I play a Dem in a House that will apparently remain Republican for four RP years at least?

Percentage of seats lost does not resemble an accurate measure, because it treats all seat losses as identical. When a majority is large, even winning a majority of the popular vote can see gains-see 2016, when the GOP won the House vote 49.1%-48.0%, but lost six seats, because they controlled 247 after a far more commanding victory in 2014.

Defending seats in the House is an attempt to match up against the victory that won you those seats, because gains beyond a certain point require you to go into 'enemy territory', blue districts, in the case of the GOP. With a 5.7% margin of victory in 2014, they could hold those seats. With a 1.1% margin of victory in 2016, however, they lost them, as those seats were bluer than that slim GOP advantage.

The same will apply in 2018, and harshly. Even if the GOP somehow picked up a win in the House popular vote, all but impossible with the midterm backlash, they would still lose dozens and dozens of seats at minimum, simply because those seats are too blue to hold in anything but a wave year. The GOP's best-case scenario would be "only" losing a substantial chunk of their majority. Their worst-case is a complete loss of the House.

[Puertollano]

My qualms with the current running of things is how slow things progress. We should be in 2019 already and be keeping up with IRL. Many people would even argue that's too slow.

[Holy Roman Empires2]

I'd like to join. How?

[Prolieum]

My qualms with the current running of things is how slow things progress. We should be in 2019 already and be keeping up with IRL. Many people would even argue that's too slow.

That particularly issue is being directly addressed. A post now some pages back lays out the plan. Following the vote on the budget, which is going through an accelerated process, the roleplay will progress at the rapid pace of one roleplay month per out-of-character week, reaching the midterms before the New Year.

[Prolieum]

I'd like to join. How?

Applications are available in the first post of the out-of-character thread. We are going through a bit of a rough patch at the moment, unfortunately, but as soon as these matters are settled, I will be happy to lend you a hand in crafting your character.

[Prolieum]

We risk an endless back-and-forth that none of us wants. So, in brief, a statement:

As it stands, I believe that the state of the roleplay is strong. We have a record of longevity and success that perhaps no other roleplay in the history of this site can match, celebrating good times and weathering bad ones alike, and I would see that record continued on.

Four primary issues have been raised. Three of them, I believe that we are well set to address and overcome, with the accelerated schedule of the roleplay, the retirement and exodus of lingering characters in the 2018 elections, and the upcoming GOP losses in that same election.

The fourth issue, relating to polling, should be addressed, and will be. First, however, it must be seen if this roleplay will survive.

I fully believe in the choice of the individual. I would not seek to bind those who wish to leave the roleplay into staying, nor those who wish to preserve it into seeing it taken apart.

The choice is fully yours, for each of you. I believe that this roleplay still has great days ahead of it. I believe that this roleplay has been great because of its community, and that we will continue to be so so long as it remains strong. I cannot, however, and I would not, bar anyone who does believe otherwise from leaving, if that is truly their wish.

I hope that that will not be the case, but as intense as this has gotten, I have truly enjoyed this last years with all of you, even when it has been difficult, even, or especially, when it has been weird. If this is a farewell, I wish it to be a fond one.

No matter what happens, we have, by any measure, been together a very long time, gotten to know each other as people, even if we do not know each other's faces. I do not want to leave any ill will between any of us. For any choosing to depart, I wish only the best for you, and for those who choose to stay, I wish only the best for all of us, together.

Thank you.

[Dentali]

Lingering characters you do do right now by updating the OOC. The Republican supermajority will take months OOC time to handle if we are lucky and frankly the damage done on the legislative side will by no means end. Minutemen and POMA can't be repealed by a Democratic house and the left will never take over the senate in 2018

That would be the standard progression of politics, then, as much as the GOP was unable to repeal the Assault Weapons Ban following its passage, or as much as, currently, the Democrats are unable to repeal the Republican tax bill without the Senate under their control.

The Republicans are poised to suffer losses in the midterms because of an over-aggressive agenda, in a frequently seen political course of events. The Democrats passed the ACA in 2008 under their own supermajority, and suffered a disastrous midterm loss following the opposing party aggressively campaigning against it. 2018 is likely to closely mirror 2010.

my point exactly... POMA and Minutemen are ridiculous but will be unable to be repealed

[Dentali]

We risk an endless back-and-forth that none of us wants. So, in brief, a statement:

As it stands, I believe that the state of the roleplay is strong. We have a record of longevity and success that perhaps no other roleplay in the history of this site can match, celebrating good times and weathering bad ones alike, and I would see that record continued on.

Four primary issues have been raised. Three of them, I believe that we are well set to address and overcome, with the accelerated schedule of the roleplay, the retirement and exodus of lingering characters in the 2018 elections, and the upcoming GOP losses in that same election.

The fourth issue, relating to polling, should be addressed, and will be. First, however, it must be seen if this roleplay will survive.

I fully believe in the choice of the individual. I would not seek to bind those who wish to leave the roleplay into staying, nor those who wish to preserve it into seeing it taken apart.

The choice is fully yours, for each of you. I believe that this roleplay still has great days ahead of it. I believe that this roleplay has been great because of its community, and that we will continue to be so so long as it remains strong. I cannot, however, and I would not, bar anyone who does believe otherwise from leaving, if that is truly their wish.

I hope that that will not be the case, but as intense as this has gotten, I have truly enjoyed this last years with all of you, even when it has been difficult, even, or especially, when it has been weird. If this is a farewell, I wish it to be a fond one.

No matter what happens, we have, by any measure, been together a very long time, gotten to know each other as people, even if we do not know each other's faces. I do not want to leave any ill will between any of us. For any choosing to depart, I wish only the best for you, and for those who choose to stay, I wish only the best for all of us, together.

Thank you.

Pro you need to go further on those first 3 points, obviously no one feels as if it has been enough. No use being defensive over it, but everyone is telling you that more needs to be done. This RP can survive without a reboot but you need to meet us halfway here, aside from point 4 (which I still haven't heard an actual plan to remedy) you are saying their is no problem or its already addressed. Everyone else is saying the method you are using to address it is not sufficient. Please come on and help us out here

[Vaquas]

Due to a failure of leadership to immediately enter into a democratic process to decide the reset question, I hereby resign from the Washington 2017 RP in totality.

It has been a fun ride, to be sure.

[Uttland]

We risk an endless back-and-forth that none of us wants. So, in brief, a statement:

As it stands, I believe that the state of the roleplay is strong. We have a record of longevity and success that perhaps no other roleplay in the history of this site can match, celebrating good times and weathering bad ones alike, and I would see that record continued on.

Four primary issues have been raised. Three of them, I believe that we are well set to address and overcome, with the accelerated schedule of the roleplay, the retirement and exodus of lingering characters in the 2018 elections, and the upcoming GOP losses in that same election.

The fourth issue, relating to polling, should be addressed, and will be. First, however, it must be seen if this roleplay will survive.

I fully believe in the choice of the individual. I would not seek to bind those who wish to leave the roleplay into staying, nor those who wish to preserve it into seeing it taken apart.

The choice is fully yours, for each of you. I believe that this roleplay still has great days ahead of it. I believe that this roleplay has been great because of its community, and that we will continue to be so so long as it remains strong. I cannot, however, and I would not, bar anyone who does believe otherwise from leaving, if that is truly their wish.

I hope that that will not be the case, but as intense as this has gotten, I have truly enjoyed this last years with all of you, even when it has been difficult, even, or especially, when it has been weird. If this is a farewell, I wish it to be a fond one.

No matter what happens, we have, by any measure, been together a very long time, gotten to know each other as people, even if we do not know each other's faces. I do not want to leave any ill will between any of us. For any choosing to depart, I wish only the best for you, and for those who choose to stay, I wish only the best for all of us, together.

Thank you.

Very well. Note that none of this is a personal slight against your character or any of those who wish to stay. But disagreements over management and this RP’s future have grown too much to bear. I wish you all the best, and I hope to count you all still as acquaintances, but I hereby resign from this RP.

[Dentali]

woah guys hold on we can still salvage this no need to resign, lets give it at least 24 hours of open discussion on the OOC