NS Parliament Chamber [IC]

[New Lindale]

"Madame Speaker, typically in politics people don't trash bills right before they vote for them. I can't imagine it going down too well with their constituents".

“Mr. Speaker, that was a joke.”

Mr Austin, how dare you misgender the Madame Speaker. jk

[The Archipelago Territory]

“Mr. Speaker, that was a joke.”

Mr Austin, how dare you misgender the Madame Speaker. jk

“I wish to inform the honorable member that the current acting speaker is a male, after our former speaker stormed out of the chamber.”

[New Lindale]

Mr Austin, how dare you misgender the Madame Speaker. jk

“I wish to inform the honorable member that the current acting speaker is a male, after our former speaker stormed out of the chamber.”

Oh well. Anyways, back to politik

[The Archipelago Territory]

“I wish to inform the honorable member that the current acting speaker is a male, after our former speaker stormed out of the chamber.”

Oh well. Anyways, back to politik

“Yes, and unfortunately, you and I are forced to vote for this measure.”

[New Lindale]

Oh well. Anyways, back to politik

“Yes, and unfortunately, you and I are forced to vote for this measure.”

How unfourtunate indeed. I was hoping we would have been able to come to a solution.

[The Archipelago Territory]

“Yes, and unfortunately, you and I are forced to vote for this measure.”

How unfourtunate indeed. I was hoping we would have been able to come to a solution.

“Unless the Green’s amendments work. Then we wouldn’t be forced to vote for it.”

[Borovan entered the region as he]

"Mister speaker," Alastar adjusted his glasses,"This tax bill has some things I like and some things I don't like. But with great reluctance I will support the bill."

[New Lindale]

Mister Speaker, I am extremely concerned in the direction the parliament is going. We are now seeing a trend where my colleagues are voting on the bill, simply because we need the tax code. Again I agree that it is a necessity, but this is turning into a rushed decision that may or may not be the best decision for the citizens of Saint Hilda. What frightens me, even more, is that now at this time the Parliament Office is not allowing any other bills to be submitted. It feels like we are being pressured to vote on this bill, and that our concerns are being ignored.

[East Meranopirus]

Mister Speaker, I am extremely concerned in the direction the parliament is going. We are now seeing a trend where my colleagues are voting on the bill, simply because we need the tax code. Again I agree that it is a necessity, but this is turning into a rushed decision that may or may not be the best decision for the citizens of Saint Hilda. What frightens me, even more, is that now at this time the Parliament Office is not allowing any other bills to be submitted. It feels like we are being pressured to vote on this bill, and that our concerns are being ignored.

"Mr Speaker, I believe the Honourable Member has a few misconceptions. Firstly, the member's colleagues, which I take to be members of the governing coalition, are forced to vote for the bill not because a tax code is needed urgently, but because of a confidence and supply deal negotiated with the Center-Progressive Party, which apparently many members of the coalition were not notified beforehand. Clearly, the leaders of the coalition have negotiated a deal that strongly favours progressive and liberal causes at the expense of actual beliefs of the members of the coalition, just for a few votes to get them over the line in the confidence vote, causing this situation where government members are forced to vote on a bill that they do not support. This is the fault of the government, especially their leaders, and not the Parliament itself.

Secondly, I am not aware of a closure of the Parliament Office. However, we do have enough bills at hand for two weeks of debate and voting, and the previous Speaker had suddenly resigned, which may be causing confusion in the Parliament Office, though I am certain that will be fixed quickly."

[New Lindale]

Mister Speaker, I am extremely concerned in the direction the parliament is going. We are now seeing a trend where my colleagues are voting on the bill, simply because we need the tax code. Again I agree that it is a necessity, but this is turning into a rushed decision that may or may not be the best decision for the citizens of Saint Hilda. What frightens me, even more, is that now at this time the Parliament Office is not allowing any other bills to be submitted. It feels like we are being pressured to vote on this bill, and that our concerns are being ignored.

"Mr Speaker, I believe the Honourable Member has a few misconceptions. Firstly, the member's colleagues, which I take to be members of the governing coalition, are forced to vote for the bill not because a tax code is needed urgently, but because of a confidence and supply deal negotiated with the Center-Progressive Party, which apparently many members of the coalition were not notified beforehand. Clearly, the leaders of the coalition have negotiated a deal that strongly favours progressive and liberal causes at the expense of actual beliefs of the members of the coalition, just for a few votes to get them over the line in the confidence vote, causing this situation where government members are forced to vote on a bill that they do not support. This is the fault of the government, especially their leaders, and not the Parliament itself.

Secondly, I am not aware of a closure of the Parliament Office. However, we do have enough bills at hand for two weeks of debate and voting, and the previous Speaker had suddenly resigned, which may be causing confusion in the Parliament Office, though I am certain that will be fixed quickly."

Mr Speaker I would like to thank the honourable gentleman for his clarification and wish to inquire a bit more pertaining to the office. Firstly, the bill presented does not appear to be recorded in the office, yet several other codes with a similar code are. Also, upon review of the policy and reason on why the office is locked, it is not clear. So, my queries are if the current bill presented is passed, would these other bills be in addition to, and what is the reason the office has been locked?

[Rebels and Saints]

"Mr Speaker, I believe the Honourable Member has a few misconceptions. Firstly, the member's colleagues, which I take to be members of the governing coalition, are forced to vote for the bill not because a tax code is needed urgently, but because of a confidence and supply deal negotiated with the Center-Progressive Party, which apparently many members of the coalition were not notified beforehand. Clearly, the leaders of the coalition have negotiated a deal that strongly favours progressive and liberal causes at the expense of actual beliefs of the members of the coalition, just for a few votes to get them over the line in the confidence vote, causing this situation where government members are forced to vote on a bill that they do not support. This is the fault of the government, especially their leaders, and not the Parliament itself.

Secondly, I am not aware of a closure of the Parliament Office. However, we do have enough bills at hand for two weeks of debate and voting, and the previous Speaker had suddenly resigned, which may be causing confusion in the Parliament Office, though I am certain that will be fixed quickly."

Mr Speaker I would like to thank the honourable gentleman for his clarification and wish to inquire a bit more pertaining to the office. Firstly, the bill presented does not appear to be recorded in the office, yet several other codes with a similar code are. Also, upon review of the policy and reason on why the office is locked, it is not clear. So, my queries are if the current bill presented is passed, would these other bills be in addition to, and what is the reason the office has been locked?

OOC: Wait, are thou talking about the actual Office thread? If you are, that got locked a while ago by mods for reasons involving disputes about F7 and P2TM and rules about them. Just submit a bill to the OOC thread.

[Vedastia]

Mister Speaker, I am extremely concerned in the direction the parliament is going. We are now seeing a trend where my colleagues are voting on the bill, simply because we need the tax code. Again I agree that it is a necessity, but this is turning into a rushed decision that may or may not be the best decision for the citizens of Saint Hilda. What frightens me, even more, is that now at this time the Parliament Office is not allowing any other bills to be submitted. It feels like we are being pressured to vote on this bill, and that our concerns are being ignored.

"Mr Speaker, I believe the Honourable Member has a few misconceptions. Firstly, the member's colleagues, which I take to be members of the governing coalition, are forced to vote for the bill not because a tax code is needed urgently, but because of a confidence and supply deal negotiated with the Center-Progressive Party, which apparently many members of the coalition were not notified beforehand. Clearly, the leaders of the coalition have negotiated a deal that strongly favours progressive and liberal causes at the expense of actual beliefs of the members of the coalition, just for a few votes to get them over the line in the confidence vote, causing this situation where government members are forced to vote on a bill that they do not support. This is the fault of the government, especially their leaders, and not the Parliament itself.

Secondly, I am not aware of a closure of the Parliament Office. However, we do have enough bills at hand for two weeks of debate and voting, and the previous Speaker had suddenly resigned, which may be causing confusion in the Parliament Office, though I am certain that will be fixed quickly."

"Mr. Speaker, the current Government is a broad coalition that is generally right-leaning, but is ultimately composed of a broad spectrum of political parties. We have monarchists, we have republicans; we have conservatives, we have liberals. There are specific issues that members of each party in Government disagree upon, but we generally have an agreement in which direction Saint Hilda should go. This legislation is a contentious issue within the membership of the coalition, but ultimately it will prevent the left from taking further power at this time. Further legislation can be proposed by other members of the Government who believe that this legislation is problematic. It does not necessarily spell the end of the current government. The Honourable Mr. Lundberg may consider that there were several points of the deal, and that it did not include 'progressive' goals overall. If that was the case, then the current Government would have never agreed to a confidence and supply agreement with the Centre-Progressive Party. The green investment bank, which is not necessarily a left-wing project, and the Rational Taxation Act, which is a contentious issue within Government but not an outright socialist bill, are two policies that were negotiated in the confidence and supply agreement. There is little other 'progressive' policy that Government has agreed to implement. We are not trying to maintain control without alienating our membership at the same time. I do not believe that the agreement is too onerous for Government to bear."

[East Meranopirus]

"Mr. Speaker, the current Government is a broad coalition that is generally right-leaning, but is ultimately composed of a broad spectrum of political parties. We have monarchists, we have republicans; we have conservatives, we have liberals. There are specific issues that members of each party in Government disagree upon, but we generally have an agreement in which direction Saint Hilda should go. This legislation is a contentious issue within the membership of the coalition, but ultimately it will prevent the left from taking further power at this time. Further legislation can be proposed by other members of the Government who believe that this legislation is problematic. It does not necessarily spell the end of the current government. The Honourable Mr. Lundberg may consider that there were several points of the deal, and that it did not include 'progressive' goals overall. If that was the case, then the current Government would have never agreed to a confidence and supply agreement with the Centre-Progressive Party. The green investment bank, which is not necessarily a left-wing project, and the Rational Taxation Act, which is a contentious issue within Government but not an outright socialist bill, are two policies that were negotiated in the confidence and supply agreement. There is little other 'progressive' policy that Government has agreed to implement. We are not trying to maintain control without alienating our membership at the same time. I do not believe that the agreement is too onerous for Government to bear."

"Mr Speaker, I thank the Prime Minister for his detailed answer. However, he has not addressed the fact that many members of his coalition appear to not have been informed before the deal was made public, which would suggest that the leaders of the coalition did not adequately consult their members before making the deal, thus causing the current chaotic situation."

[The Archipelago Territory]

"Mr. Speaker, the current Government is a broad coalition that is generally right-leaning, but is ultimately composed of a broad spectrum of political parties. We have monarchists, we have republicans; we have conservatives, we have liberals. There are specific issues that members of each party in Government disagree upon, but we generally have an agreement in which direction Saint Hilda should go. This legislation is a contentious issue within the membership of the coalition, but ultimately it will prevent the left from taking further power at this time. Further legislation can be proposed by other members of the Government who believe that this legislation is problematic. It does not necessarily spell the end of the current government. The Honourable Mr. Lundberg may consider that there were several points of the deal, and that it did not include 'progressive' goals overall. If that was the case, then the current Government would have never agreed to a confidence and supply agreement with the Centre-Progressive Party. The green investment bank, which is not necessarily a left-wing project, and the Rational Taxation Act, which is a contentious issue within Government but not an outright socialist bill, are two policies that were negotiated in the confidence and supply agreement. There is little other 'progressive' policy that Government has agreed to implement. We are not trying to maintain control without alienating our membership at the same time. I do not believe that the agreement is too onerous for Government to bear."

"Mr Speaker, I thank the Prime Minister for his detailed answer. However, he has not addressed the fact that many members of his coalition appear to not have been informed before the deal was made public, which would suggest that the leaders of the coalition did not adequately consult their members before making the deal, thus causing the current chaotic situation."

“Yes, as the Deputy Leader of SHAPC, NPP never informed me of the deal.”

[Equitesia]

"Mr Speaker, I thank the Prime Minister for his detailed answer. However, he has not addressed the fact that many members of his coalition appear to not have been informed before the deal was made public, which would suggest that the leaders of the coalition did not adequately consult their members before making the deal, thus causing the current chaotic situation."

“Yes, as the Deputy Leader of SHAPC, NPP never informed me of the deal.”

Nobody has informed also me of the deal...

[New Lindale]

Mr Speaker, regardless of any deals, coalitions, or other inter-party agreements, I believe since we don't even have a tax code yet that it is even more vital we implement something that will work best for the people. To my colleagues, I would like to notify them that I will be searching for the data I had requested, and will make accessible once it is found. I hav no doubt it will provide a better picture of the situation, and also guide us to the best solution possible.

[Crylante]

“Mr Speaker, I have doubts about a government that does not even have the ability to tell its members of the deal it has made to come to power being able to effectively govern.”

[New Lindale]

“Mr Speaker, I have doubts about a government that does not even have the ability to tell its members of the deal it has made to come to power being able to effectively govern.”

Mr Speaker, I agree with my colleague on this point and wish to know of the specifics of said deal. It is apparent that it is effectively controlling how other MPs are voting regardless of objections to this bill.

[The Liberated Territories]

OOC: Since Vienna decided that it was the appropriate course to edit her message and remove the bill from debate, here it comes again. Debate will go on for 24 hours from this post.

“Debate is now open on the Rational Taxation Scheme Act for 24 hours from this time.”

Rational Taxation Scheme Act
Author: Marius Forsman (C-P)
Sponsors: Viktoria Ljungstrand (SLP:R), Lisa Forss (GR), James Penta (GR)

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To improve on the system of taxation in Saint Hilda, for the betterment, prosperity, and liberty, for all.

BE IT THEREFORE ENACTED, as follows:

---

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§1 - Amendments

1. All existing taxes imposed on Saint Hilda previous to independence shall be abolished.

§2 - Definitions

1. Monetary values should be taken as USD, or their equivalent value in any local currency.
2. Income, for the sake of corporate taxation, shall be considered as net profit after expenses.

§3 - Income Tax

1. There shall be a progressive income tax, including a negative income credit model.
2. The tax exemption cutoff shall be at $15,000.
3. The income subsidy rate shall be 75%.
4. The tax rate for income from $15,000 to $30,000 shall be 20%.
5. The tax rate for income from $30,001 to $50,000 shall be 25%.
6. The tax rate for income from $50,001 to $100,000 shall be 30%.
7. The tax rate for income from $100,000 upwards shall be 40%.
8. Income for the sake of this tax includes that of capital gains made from sales during that year.

§4 - Corporate Tax

1. The income of corporations shall be taxed at a rate of 40%.
2. Corporations with a total income of less than $200,000 shall receive a tax rate reduction of 10%.
3. Corporations which move to relying entirely on sustainably generated electricity shall receive a five year tax rate reduction of 10%.
4. Corporations which increase their number of employees by at least 50% shall receive a five year tax rate reduction of 10%.

§5 - Excises and Duties

1. There shall be a per-unit excise on tobacco products, of $20.
2. There shall be a per-unit excise on alcoholic products, of $10.

§6 - Absentee Property Tax

1. Residential properties that are uninhabited for more than one half of a year in total shall be subject to a tax of 20% of property value for that year.
2. Commercial or industrial properties that are not utilized or rented by owners for more than one half of a year in total shall be subject to a tax of 20% of property value for that year.
3. In such cases where properties are shown to be unfit for habitation or use for the aforementioned periods, no such tax shall apply.

§7 - Office of Taxation

1. There shall be established an Office of Taxation, with responsibility to organize and enforce the taxes of Saint Hilda.
2. The Office of Taxation shall be lead by a Director, appointed by the Cabinet Minister assigned to the responsibility of finances.
3. The Office of Taxation shall have the right to hire employees and enter into contracts, and occupy and rent office spaces, independently. The government of Saint Hilda is responsible for accrued expenses.

Sara stands up to speak.

"Although debate has officially ended, I still wish to add my two ören on the so called 'Rational Taxation Act."

I am no fan of a progressive tax, which I consider inferior to a flat tax, and anyway, may be unnecessary and overkill for our small island when other similar countries have abolished the income tax entirely. However, I would be still willing to compromise with the RTA if it weren't for the following:

The Absentee Property Tax, §6, is perhaps the most egregious part of this bill as it heavily penalizes investments on property, vacation homes, and the like based on the spurious and unclear category of 'occupation.'

While I and my party will not vote against the bill due to my obligations to the CP as part of our coalition deal, I cannot support it, and therefore will not be present at the day of the vote. Errands, and all that."

She sits back down.

[New Lindale]

Alright then, what is the next order of business if we can't do anything about the tax scheme?

[Lamaredia]

"Order, order, as the debate period has now ended, a vote will now take place on the Rational Taxation Scheme Act. The vote will go on for 48 hours from this point."

Please use the following template and put an X for your vote.

Code: Select all

Rational Taxation Scheme Act:
[color=#008000]Aye: [ ][/color]
[color=#800000]Nay: [ ][/color]
[color=#FF8000]Abstain: [ ][/color]


OOC: Sorry for the late start, had a lot of cat-related things to do this evening after work.

[Van Hool Islands]

Rational Taxation Scheme Act:
Aye: [X]
Nay: [ ]
Abstain: [ ]

[New Lindale]

Rational Taxation Scheme Act:
Aye: [X]
Nay: [ ]
Abstain: [ ]

[Lysone]

Rational Taxation Scheme Act:
Aye: [x]
Nay: [ ]
Abstain: [ ]

[The Archipelago Territory]

Rational Taxation Scheme Act:
Aye: [ ]
Nay: [ ]
Abstain: [X]