NS Parliament Chamber [IC]

[Kowani]

Snippy

“So, who draws the district lines, the constituencies?”

[MERIZoC]

The Bill Bill Amendment
Author: Merizoc
Sponsors: Lamaredia, Van Hool, Martune, Crylante, Mersdon

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An act to formalize the process of submitting and passing bills

BE IT THEREFORE ENACTED, as follows:

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§1 - Submitting bills

1. When a bill has received three sponsors, it may be submitted to the Office of the of the Speaker (ooc: the Office will be a separate thread created for the purpose of organizing bills that have not yet been passed)
2. Prior to submission, the Prime Minister may choose to designate any bills as "government bills", while the Leader of the Opposition may choose to designate any bills as "opposition bills".
3. Upon receiving bills, the Speaker shall sort them into the bottom of their respective queues—one for government bills, one for opposition bills, and one for independent bills which have received no designation.
4. The Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition may request to change the order of the bills in their respective queues.
5. Upon a change of government, all bills in the government queue and opposition queue shall be moved to the independent queue, after which the new Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition shall be able to re-designate bills and move them back

§2 - Presenting and Voting on Bills

1. Each week, at the Speaker's digression, he or she shall present the chamber with a total of 2 to 5 bills, depending on the size of the queues.
2. If 5 bills are presented in a week, 3 shall be from the top of government queue, 1 from the top of the opposition queue, and 1 from the top of the independent queue. If 4 bills are presented, 2 shall be government, 1 shall be opposition, and 1 shall be independent. If 3 bills are presented, 2 shall be government and 1 shall be opposition. If 2 bills are presented, 1 shall be government and 1 shall be opposition.
3. Beginning at the Monday of the week, the Speaker shall present the first bill to the chamber, and open 24 hours of discussion on it. Once the 24 hours have concluded, they will present the next bill for 24 hours of discussion. This process will be repeated for up to five bills.
4. The Speaker may use their digression to extend the time for discussion, if they feel more debate is needed.
5. On the Saturday of the week, the Speaker shall open a vote lasting 24 hours on all of the bills which have been presented that week.
6. Members may vote "aye", "nay", or abstain. If the ayes are greater than the nays, the bill passes and immediately enters into effect.

§2 - Additional agenda items

1. Following the closure of the weekly vote, the Speaker shall call parliamentary questions. Members shall have roughly 24 hours to ask questions of the Prime Minister and cabinet ministers until the first bill of the next week is presented.

[United Provinces of Atlantica]

OOC: Making Parliament ICly last five years and making Parliament OOCly last five months are honestly some of the worst ideas possible for the Parliament. Not only is five months FAR too long and unnecessarily restricting our activity - the last time a Senate incarnation even five months was, I believe, Elizia - but making the term incarnation last five years makes us unable to roleplay in reaction to real-life events and just adds a layer of unnecessary complexity. There's absolutely no reason to make the term last five years beyond realism, and historically, valuing realism has ALWAYS led to stagnation and decline.

IC: "Mister Speaker, I strongly oppose the Constitution that is currently being proposed; in particular, I strongly oppose the clause's citizenship and immigration provisions, which are far too specific for a Constitution, especially considering that this Constitution prohibits amendments not securing a two-thirds majority, which is, in my opinion, an idea unduly restricting necessary changes to our government. Moreover, despite the Constitution's ratification of the UDHR, I am most appalled by the lack of a specific human rights section in the Constitution, a necessity if we are to protect human rights specifically valued by Saint Hildans. I am also gravely concerned by the Constitution's specific regulations on Parliament's powers, an unnecessary measure with the potential to restrict Parliamentary power beyond protecting human rights, just as in the United States, whose specific federalist circumstances are inapplicable; a simple statement that Parliament has the power to enact any legislation not prohibited by the Constitution would be far more appropriate."

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Aaron Farman enters the chamber knowing that he was late to the party, and he sits where the capitalist party parliamentarians have assembled.

[NS Parliament Administrators]

"We are no despotic feudal kingdom, my friend. We are a modern nation-state, with a duty to uphold the rights of all our citizens, no matter the circumstance. I can't even tell how you were elected with these kinds of ideas rattling in your head. If you have a better Constitution that can gain more support, I encourage you to write it. Otherwise, I don't believe you have anything to contribute to this debate."

"Write one I will, but these things take time. Regardless, I was elected on fame. If you didn't know, I, good sir, was the owner and CEO of Vision United, one of the most successful companies in the United States. People saw my success in business and figured my success in politics would be natural. Whether or not they are right remains to be seen."

OOC: While this doesn't quite tread into the territory of godmodding your character, it's on the line, dangerously close. Saying that your character was the owner and CEO of one of the most successful companies in the entirety of the United States is severe character masturbation, and using it as a fact to support said character in an IC way is not okay. Knock it off.

Note that this is not an official warning, but rein in the bombastics before it becomes one.

(Three admins out of six, not just the one writing this, were involved in this decision.)

-Lamaredia

[Lamaredia]

Rep. Jonas T. Apelstierna rises from his seat to say:
"While I overall am in full support of the proposed constitution, I am a bit confused about section 58, reading 'Parliament shall set the rules and qualifications for the election of a Prime Minister,'. Firstly because it seems to have been placed too early, in the midst of provisions about the election of the speaker. Secondly, because electoral law regarding the Prime Minister should be enshrined in the constitution to safeguard it from eventual evil forces easily changing it through a single, majority vote."

OOC: I would think changing that one to speaker is the needed change, if I'm not misreading the entire thing. I also would propose we work of a system of negative parliamentarism like Sweden, for the election of a PM. Moreover, I think a period of five months is way too long, its easy to lose interest in the RP if nothing changes in the government for that period of time. Ideally, I would consider two months to be the best option.

[Rebels and Saints]

"Write one I will, but these things take time. Regardless, I was elected on fame. If you didn't know, I, good sir, was the owner and CEO of Vision United, one of the most successful companies in the United States. People saw my success in business and figured my success in politics would be natural. Whether or not they are right remains to be seen."

OOC: While this doesn't quite tread into the territory of godmodding your character, it's on the line, dangerously close. Saying that your character was the owner and CEO of one of the most successful companies in the entirety of the United States is severe character masturbation, and using it as a fact to support said character in an IC way is not okay. Knock it off.

Note that this is not an official warning, but rein in the bombastics before it becomes one.

(Three admins out of six, not just the one writing this, were involved in this decision.)

-Lamaredia

OOC: I'm not the only one who's done this, and I don't see it as any different from anybody making a backstory for their character. In fact, I'd say that, irl, more politicians are elected on fame and wealth than anything, so I would claim that I'm being realistic here.

[Lamaredia]

OOC: While this doesn't quite tread into the territory of godmodding your character, it's on the line, dangerously close. Saying that your character was the owner and CEO of one of the most successful companies in the entirety of the United States is severe character masturbation, and using it as a fact to support said character in an IC way is not okay. Knock it off.

Note that this is not an official warning, but rein in the bombastics before it becomes one.

(Three admins out of six, not just the one writing this, were involved in this decision.)

-Lamaredia

OOC: I'm not the only one who's done this, and I don't see it as any different from anybody making a backstory for their character. In fact, I'd say that, irl, more politicians are elected on fame and wealth than anything, so I would claim that I'm being realistic here.

OOC: The reason for as to why we're being so strict on this is due to a member back in the first iteration of the RP, Aurentina, who was named Dragomere. Having a big company is alright, having one that is "one of the most successful" in the entirty of the US is not.

Feel free to link to any other's who have done the same and we will look at it and deal out unofficial warnings to them, just like we did with you.

[Rebels and Saints]

OOC: I'm not the only one who's done this, and I don't see it as any different from anybody making a backstory for their character. In fact, I'd say that, irl, more politicians are elected on fame and wealth than anything, so I would claim that I'm being realistic here.

OOC: The reason for as to why we're being so strict on this is due to a member back in the first iteration of the RP, Aurentina, who was named Dragomere. Having a big company is alright, having one that is "one of the most successful" in the entirty of the US is not.

Feel free to link to any other's who have done the same and we will look at it and deal out unofficial warnings to them, just like we did with you.

OOC: I would prefer not to, simply because I don't like throwing other people under the bus. Regardless, this shouldn't really affect things. The company was sold to Apple sometime before, and most of Lance's wealth goes to his constant substance abuse. The only thing he's really benefitting from is the fame he earned from it, which I think is generally fair. Anyways, this is an IC thread, so I don't want to take away from that. If we are going to continue discussing this, it should probably be in OOC.

[American Pere Housh]

Michael Thomas walks into the Parliament chamber and finds his assigned seat saying, "Sorry I'm late everyone, there was a four car pile up at the entrance to my neighborhood so I was stuck waiting. So what did I miss?"

[Rebels and Saints]

Michael Thomas walks into the Parliament chamber and finds his assigned seat saying, "Sorry I'm late everyone, there was a four car pile up at the entrance to my neighborhood so I was stuck waiting. So what did I miss?"

Lance turned bowing to Michael. "Debating. Yelling. The usual. Nothing of importance."

[Merni]

"I second amendment VII. Also, I believe that amendment X was intended to refer to articles 1.5.1 and 1.5.2 not to 5.1 and 5.2.

[The Sarian]

"I second amendment VII. Also, I believe that amendment X was intended to refer to articles 1.5.1 and 1.5.2 not to 5.1 and 5.2.

"The Honourable Member, blessed by the gift of great sagacity is naturally correct. The House clerks shall get to correcting that error henceforth."

[East Meranopirus]

Albin Lundberg rises from his seat, a list in hand. "I believe the establishment of the office of the Prime Minister and appointment of ministers in the Constitution is problematic and contradictory to Parliamentary tradition, and thus, I shall propose these amendments to the Constitution.

"First, Article 64 shall be removed as it is redundant.

"Second, Article 65 shall be removed, and in its place an Article shall be added that reads 'The Crown, or its Representative in Saint Hilda, shall appoint a Prime Minister to govern on its behalf, which shall be the person most likely to command confidence of Parliament.'

"Third, Article 66 shall be combined with the previous Article 65 and read 'The Prime Minister shall serve as the Head of Government and the Chief Executive of the State of Saint Hilda'

"Lastly, Article 73 shall be removed as it is already covered by my second amendment.

"These amendment shall be grouped together, as each will only be effective is all others take effect.

"In addition, I would like to endorse all amendments from I to X, with the exception of IX. Instead I propose this amendment to Article 2:

"'The State of Saint Hilda shall be a democratic sovereign state under dominion of the Swedish Crown'"

[Crylante]

"I second amendment VII. Also, I believe that amendment X was intended to refer to articles 1.5.1 and 1.5.2 not to 5.1 and 5.2.

"I would like to thank the honourable member for seconding my amendment."

[Democratic Republic of Eiria]

Albin Lundberg rises from his seat, a list in hand. "I believe the establishment of the office of the Prime Minister and appointment of ministers in the Constitution is problematic and contradictory to Parliamentary tradition, and thus, I shall propose these amendments to the Constitution.

"First, Article 64 shall be removed as it is redundant.

"Second, Article 65 shall be removed, and in its place an Article shall be added that reads 'The Crown, or its Representative in Saint Hilda, shall appoint a Prime Minister to govern on its behalf, which shall be the person most likely to command confidence of Parliament.'

"Third, Article 66 shall be combined with the previous Article 65 and read 'The Prime Minister shall serve as the Head of Government and the Chief Executive of the State of Saint Hilda'

"Lastly, Article 73 shall be removed as it is already covered by my second amendment.

"These amendment shall be grouped together, as each will only be effective is all others take effect.

"In addition, I would like to endorse all amendments from I to X, with the exception of IX. Instead I propose this amendment to Article 2:

"'The State of Saint Hilda shall be a democratic sovereign state under dominion of the Swedish Crown'"

John Lancaster asked "So, you want us to essentially become Australia, Mr. Lundberg?".

[Merni]

Anna Nilsson once again rises, this time with a frown on her face and a sheet of paper in her hand, "Madam Speaker, I would like to raise a few concerns I have with amendment XVI:

1. The term "Leader of the Opposition" is not defined either in the Constitution or in the amendment.
2. The amendment proposes no procedure for a circumstance in which fewer than 2 bills are available to discuss in a week, or in which the requisite proportion of government, opposition or independent bills are not available (say if only opposition or independent bills are pending). While these are unlikely scenarios, they are still possible. Also, in the case of 3 or 2 bills being presented, no independent bills can be legally considered, even if there are no other bills pending. I feel that the balance of bills presented may be left to the speaker, as long as the following criteria are met:
   
   1. No more than 5 bills are discussed in any week.
   2. At least one government and one opposition bill be discussed (if available), and, whenever possible, at least one independent bill also be discussed.
   3. As long as the previous criterion is met, preference shall generally be given first to government bills, then to opposition bills, and finally to independent bills.
3. The amendment also does not envisage any procedure for any general debates not related to bills. However, I would assume this is left at the discretion of the Speaker, so it is not a big problem.

I request my honourable colleague, Mr de Santa Maria (OOC: Merizoc), to consider these concerns in good faith. Thank you."

[The Sarian]

Anna Nilsson once again rises, this time with a frown on her face and a sheet of paper in her hand, "Madam Speaker, I would like to raise a few concerns I have with amendment XVI:

1. The term "Leader of the Opposition" is not defined either in the Constitution or in the amendment.
2. The amendment proposes no procedure for a circumstance in which fewer than 2 bills are available to discuss in a week, or in which the requisite proportion of government, opposition or independent bills are not available (say if only opposition or independent bills are pending). While these are unlikely scenarios, they are still possible. Also, in the case of 3 or 2 bills being presented, no independent bills can be legally considered, even if there are no other bills pending. I feel that the balance of bills presented may be left to the speaker, as long as the following criteria are met:
   
   1. No more than 5 bills are discussed in any week.
   2. At least one government and one opposition bill be discussed (if available), and, whenever possible, at least one independent bill also be discussed.
   3. As long as the previous criterion is met, preference shall generally be given first to government bills, then to opposition bills, and finally to independent bills.
3. The amendment also does not envisage any procedure for any general debates not related to bills. However, I would assume this is left at the discretion of the Speaker, so it is not a big problem.

I request my honourable colleague, Mr de Santa Maria, to consider these concerns in good faith. Thank you."

"Order. I believe it would be appropriate for me to add information to the debate following the Honourable Member's intervention, as it relates to the running of the House.

Amendment Sixteen would remove much of the discretion of the Chair and supersede the current Standing Orders in relation to the business of the House. It is the understanding of myself and the clerks that if the House passed Amendment Sixteen, then the Speaker would not be able to use his or her discretion in a manner suggested by the Honourable Member."

[Merni]

snip

"Order. I believe it would be appropriate for me to add information to the debate following the Honourable Member's intervention, as it relates to the running of the House.

Amendment Sixteen would remove much of the discretion of the Chair and supersede the current Standing Orders in relation to the business of the House. It is the understanding of myself and the clerks that if the House passed Amendment Sixteen, then the Speaker would not be able to use his or her discretion in a manner suggested by the Honourable Member."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, for that clarification. In that case, indeed, this is a problem with the proposed amendment. I would once again request my honourable colleague Mr de Santa Maria to look into the matter as soon as possible."

[The Archipelago Territory]

I am not capitalist though, but thanks for telling me.

[Roosevetania]

Nation Name: The Archipelago Territory
History of Warnings, Bans, etc: none
Character Name (Optional, Add Full Profile In Database): Austin Miller
Party (choose from existing parties or create one with the party application):

Party Name: Anti-Federal Libertarian Party
Ideology Summary: less taxes, less government involvement in social and economic issues
Party Leader(s): the Archipelago Territory
Party Abbreviation: AFLP
Party Colors: Green blue and white
Party Members: The Archipelago Territory

Full Party Platform: coming soon
Party Constitution: coming soon
Party Logo: (Image)

OOC: This is an IC thread. Applications goo here. And if you're looking for a libertarian party, the Capitalist Party already exists, if you're interested.

[The Archipelago Territory]

Nation Name: The Archipelago Territory
History of Warnings, Bans, etc: none
Character Name (Optional, Add Full Profile In Database): Austin Miller
Party (choose from existing parties or create one with the party application):

Party Name: Anti-Federal Libertarian Party
Ideology Summary: less taxes, less government involvement in social and economic issues
Party Leader(s): the Archipelago Territory
Party Abbreviation: AFLP
Party Colors: Green blue and white
Party Members: The Archipelago Territory

Full Party Platform: coming soon
Party Constitution: coming soon
Party Logo: (Image)

OOC: This is an IC thread. Applications goo here. And if you're looking for a libertarian party, the Capitalist Party already exists, if you're interested.

OOC: I fixed it.

[Roosevetania]

"Madam Speaker, I second Amendments 1-6, 8, 9(ii), 10, 15, 16, and 17."

[Dormill and Stiura]

"Madam Speaker, I second all remaining amendments on the table excluding amendments eight and fifteen. I believe that Parliament should be assembled in its majority in order to properly do business"

(OOC: For the purposes of anything OOC, I have recommended the assumption that Parliament is always at quorum except when mentioned otherwise)

[Mayolagne]

"Madam Speaker, I second Amendments 1-6, 8, 9(ii), 10, 15, 16, and 17."