NS Parliament Chamber [IC]

[Crylante]

"Madam Speaker, I feel it necessary to point out to the Honourable Gentleman that I do not think abortion should be legal unless a woman's life is at risk past the point at which the baby can feasibly survive outside the womb - this is normally assumed to be 24 weeks."

[Lamaredia]

"Madam Speaker, I am in strong opposition to this amendment.

Both things the amendment attempts to do, that is, ban abortion when the mother's life is not at risk and allow for the death penalty, are things I vehemently oppose. But I would like to focus on why I am strongly opposed to banning abortion.

Now, I do not view abortion as a desirable end to a pregnancy. Yet, it is a fact of life that sometimes it is necessary. The fact is, however aware the government may be of it, that there will be pregnancies as a result of a rape. Rape can, however aware the government may be of this, be very traumatic to those who have suffered from it, and thus forcing a mother to live with a constant reminder of this fact is going to lead to a mother unwilling to properly care for the baby due to the trauma its very existence brings.

Furthermore, however aware the government may be of it, there will be pregnancies that will result out of hardly ideal circumstances where the mother does not have the resources to care for the baby. The baby will thus grow up deprived of the resources needed to have a decent standard of living and the parents of the baby may not wish for their baby to suffer like this.

As I said, I do not view abortion as a desirable end to a pregnancy. Yet the fact is, making it illegal will do nothing but make the situation worse. The Republic of Ireland instituted a similar constitutional ban on abortion. Did it stop Irish women from getting abortions? No. All the women who could afford it went to the United Kingdom to have a safe abortion. All the women that could not afford it turned to dangerous back street abortions with serious risks of complications as they had no legal access to them.

The fact is, however aware the government may be of it, that to reduce the number of abortions, one must address the circumstances that lead to women having abortions. Allowing easy access to contraceptives will reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies that would lead to abortions. Setting up programs to try and eradicate rape and rape culture in our society would reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies that would lead to abortions. Trying to alleviate the circumstances in which women find themselves unable to actually raise children would reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies.

I implore the government to try any of these strategies if they want to reduce the number of abortions in stead of outright banning them.

I will be voting against this bill because I wish to keep abortion as a matter to be decided by a woman and her doctor."

"Madame Speaker, in a perfect world, we could respect both the right of a child to live and the right of a mother to choose. However, this obviously, in reality, is not a plausible arrangement."

"Meany of the Members here seem to believe that a ban on abortion intends to choose the rights of the fetus over the rights of the mother. This has been misconstrued into an idea of gender discrimination."

"I urge the Speaker to remind the Members that the ban on abortion is not intended to be a decision between the rights of a fetus and the rights of a mother, but a decision between the right to life and the right to bodily autonomy."

"Quite simply, a child unborn and a child born should be treated the same, regardless of consciousness or state of existence. Five minutes after a child is born, killing it would be called murder. Five minutes before, killing it would be called abortion."

"Madame Speaker, might I question why any of the Members of this Parliament believe that ten minutes such as these can change the legality of the ending of an innocent life?"

"Madame Speaker, I would argue that the Hon. Rep. is grossly misjudging what abortion actually is. Abortion isn't something that is done 5 minutes before birth, and never will it be. Abortion is, as I am sure we will follow Sweden's example on the matter, free up to week 18 of pregnancy. After that, up to week 22, you need permission from Social Services in the case of the fetus or the mother having serious health issues. That later limit is lowered every time we can save a fetus at a younger age, which today is week 22."

[Rebels and Saints]

"Madame Speaker, in a perfect world, we could respect both the right of a child to live and the right of a mother to choose. However, this obviously, in reality, is not a plausible arrangement."

"Meany of the Members here seem to believe that a ban on abortion intends to choose the rights of the fetus over the rights of the mother. This has been misconstrued into an idea of gender discrimination."

"I urge the Speaker to remind the Members that the ban on abortion is not intended to be a decision between the rights of a fetus and the rights of a mother, but a decision between the right to life and the right to bodily autonomy."

"Quite simply, a child unborn and a child born should be treated the same, regardless of consciousness or state of existence. Five minutes after a child is born, killing it would be called murder. Five minutes before, killing it would be called abortion."

"Madame Speaker, might I question why any of the Members of this Parliament believe that ten minutes such as these can change the legality of the ending of an innocent life?"

"Madame Speaker, I would argue that the Hon. Rep. is grossly misjudging what abortion actually is. Abortion isn't something that is done 5 minutes before birth, and never will it be. Abortion is, as I am sure we will follow Sweden's example on the matter, free up to week 18 of pregnancy. After that, up to week 22, you need permission from Social Services in the case of the fetus or the mother having serious health issues. That later limit is lowered every time we can save a fetus at a younger age, which today is week 22."

"Madame Speaker, I am not saying that in any reasonable case abortion is performed minutes before birth. What I am saying is that abortion can be performed just minutes before birth. Further, let us take week 22. How can we say that any amount of time can change a person's rights?"

[Lamaredia]

"Madame Speaker, I would argue that the Hon. Rep. is grossly misjudging what abortion actually is. Abortion isn't something that is done 5 minutes before birth, and never will it be. Abortion is, as I am sure we will follow Sweden's example on the matter, free up to week 18 of pregnancy. After that, up to week 22, you need permission from Social Services in the case of the fetus or the mother having serious health issues. That later limit is lowered every time we can save a fetus at a younger age, which today is week 22."

"Madame Speaker, I am not saying that in any reasonable case abortion is performed minutes before birth. What I am saying is that abortion can be performed just minutes before birth. Further, let us take week 22. How can we say that any amount of time can change a person's rights?"

"Madame Speaker, a fetus is not a person, and a fetus can not survive outside the womb until at the absolute earliest week 23, and that's a very, very rare occurrence. A woman's right to her body trumps anything."

[Rebels and Saints]

"Madame Speaker, I am not saying that in any reasonable case abortion is performed minutes before birth. What I am saying is that abortion can be performed just minutes before birth. Further, let us take week 22. How can we say that any amount of time can change a person's rights?"

"Madame Speaker, a fetus is not a person, and a fetus can not survive outside the womb until at the absolute earliest week 23, and that's a very, very rare occurrence. A woman's right to her body trumps anything."

"Madame Speaker, I would hold that a fetus is, in essence, a person, and holds all the same rights as a person. As to the notion that a women's right to her body trumps everything, we will simply have to agree to disagree."

[New Lindale]

Madame speaker, I would like to request that we might vote on my bill submitted since we are on the topic of abortion, or in the minimum open it for debate.

[Agarntrop]

Madame speaker, I would like to request that we might vote on my bill submitted since we are on the topic of abortion, or in the minimum open it for debate.

"Madam Speaker, point of order, the member is breaking protocol!"

[Martune]

Madame speaker, I would like to request that we might vote on my bill submitted since we are on the topic of abortion, or in the minimum open it for debate.

"Order. We don't hold simultaneous readings on different bills. And the bill you're referring to does not have enough sponsors to be introduced to this chamber. I won't be re-ordering the queue nor introducing a bill that doesn't meet the requirements for this house."

[Martune]

Madame speaker, I would like to request that we might vote on my bill submitted since we are on the topic of abortion, or in the minimum open it for debate.

"Madam Speaker, point of order, the member is breaking protocol!"

"The point is taken and it has been addressed."

[New Lindale]

Madame Speaker, I wish to apologise for my break in protocol. My request was not intended so, but merely a suggestion this topic had been brought up

[Martune]

Madame Speaker, I wish to apologise for my break in protocol. My request was not intended so, but merely a suggestion this topic had been brought up

"I'm afraid the suggestion can in no way, in accordance to the current standing orders, be undertaken in any way."

[Inhorto]

"Madam Speaker, while I stand in support of the autonomy and right of the mother, I also stand in support of the right of the child to live their life. Let us not kid ourselves, Madam Speaker, abortion is the killing of a premature life form. There is no way to sugarcoat it; it is an act of premeditated killing. Now, whether or not such acts are legal or illegal is our prerogative, and it is the subject of this debate. If a mother does not want to raise a child, then she should put it up for adoption. I'm afraid that it is as simple as that, Madam Speaker. Only if there is significant threat to the mother's life should abortion be allowed. I see no difference, to be perfectly honest, between the killing of an unborn child and infanticide or filicide. "

[Roosevetania]

"Madam Speaker, I will address the points of several of my colleagues.

"First of all, ending the life of an unborn child is not a woman's right, and prohibiting this killing is not denying rights. A fetus is not part of the woman, but a separate life, thus control over the fetus is not a matter of 'bodily autonomy.'

"Some of my colleagues have also made the argument that an exception should be made in cases of rape. To them I pose the question: Do they believe a child deserves less of a chance and fewer rights simply because of the circumstances under which it was conceived? A baby should not be killed simply because its father was a criminal.

"Abortion for socioeconomic reasons is a pitifully weak argument. A woman is not forced to raise a child once she gives birth to it, and there are charities willing to pay the cost of pregnancy, rendering the point about expenses irrelevant. I am open to the suggestions the Honorable Leader of Republik proposes, but all of those still permit abortion.

"Now, to address the point of Members of the Opposition regarding 'ten minutes.' I believe the idea my colleague in the Government was trying to portray is that, especially for late term pregnancies, time is largely what separates a baby from a fetus. The time at which a fetus becomes a child according to the Opposition is subjective, so at some point, it is not defined and a baby is being killed. Because this cannot be defined, abortions cannot be consistently carried out with the certainty that a child is not being killed.

"In conclusion, again, Madam Speaker, a fetus has human chromosomes and is separated from life by a few inches. This bill gives all children a chance at life, while allowing proper strict punishment for criminals. This amendment is just, and I urge this House to pass it."

[Martune]

"Order. Order. The reading has concluded and we will begin the 24 hour division. Lock the doors!."

The Life Amendment
Author: Alexander Norberg (NPP)
Sponsors: Salomon Kombila Berggren (SHAPC), Lance Darrow (FPP)

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A bill to amend the Human Rights Act in order to protect the rights of unborn children and allow punishment of criminals

BE IT THEREFORE ENACTED, as follows:

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§1 - Amendment

1. Section 1 of the Universal Rights Act shall be amended to read: "Right to life is bestowed upon all persons upon conception and shall not be violated in any circumstance except to protect the lives of others in immediate, life-threatening peril, to punish heinous actions against other human life, or in wartime where the killing of enemy combatants is just under international law."
2. The right to life of an unborn child may be waived when that of the mother is at risk.
3. The penalty of death shall not be imposed in trivial cases or when guilt is not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Code: Select all

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[Vedastia]

Aye: [X]
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[Pere Housh Alpha]

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[Van Hool Islands]

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[Kowani]

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[Crylante]

“Because I care about women’s rights,

Aye: [ ]
No: [X]
Abstain: [ ]

[Pere Housh Alpha]

“Because I care about women’s rights,

Aye: [ ]
No: [X]
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"Well I care about the child's rights."

[Martune]

“Because I care about women’s rights

"Well I care about the child's rights."

"Order! The honorable members will cease the back and forth with each other and keep the remarks for the appropriate periods."

[Pere Housh Alpha]

“Because I care about women’s rights

"Well I care about the child's rights."

"Order! The honorable members will cease the back and forth with each other and keep the remarks for the appropriate periods."

"Madam Speaker, my apologies ma'am." Michael glares at the ones he knows are opposed to this amendment.

[Alozia]

Aye: [ ]
No: [X]
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[East Meranopirus]

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[Arkhastok]

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