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by Crylante » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:32 pm
by Lamaredia » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:35 pm
Rebels and Saints wrote:Crylante wrote:"Madam Speaker, I am in strong opposition to this amendment.
Both things the amendment attempts to do, that is, ban abortion when the mother's life is not at risk and allow for the death penalty, are things I vehemently oppose. But I would like to focus on why I am strongly opposed to banning abortion.
Now, I do not view abortion as a desirable end to a pregnancy. Yet, it is a fact of life that sometimes it is necessary. The fact is, however aware the government may be of it, that there will be pregnancies as a result of a rape. Rape can, however aware the government may be of this, be very traumatic to those who have suffered from it, and thus forcing a mother to live with a constant reminder of this fact is going to lead to a mother unwilling to properly care for the baby due to the trauma its very existence brings.
Furthermore, however aware the government may be of it, there will be pregnancies that will result out of hardly ideal circumstances where the mother does not have the resources to care for the baby. The baby will thus grow up deprived of the resources needed to have a decent standard of living and the parents of the baby may not wish for their baby to suffer like this.
As I said, I do not view abortion as a desirable end to a pregnancy. Yet the fact is, making it illegal will do nothing but make the situation worse. The Republic of Ireland instituted a similar constitutional ban on abortion. Did it stop Irish women from getting abortions? No. All the women who could afford it went to the United Kingdom to have a safe abortion. All the women that could not afford it turned to dangerous back street abortions with serious risks of complications as they had no legal access to them.
The fact is, however aware the government may be of it, that to reduce the number of abortions, one must address the circumstances that lead to women having abortions. Allowing easy access to contraceptives will reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies that would lead to abortions. Setting up programs to try and eradicate rape and rape culture in our society would reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies that would lead to abortions. Trying to alleviate the circumstances in which women find themselves unable to actually raise children would reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies.
I implore the government to try any of these strategies if they want to reduce the number of abortions in stead of outright banning them.
I will be voting against this bill because I wish to keep abortion as a matter to be decided by a woman and her doctor."
"Madame Speaker, in a perfect world, we could respect both the right of a child to live and the right of a mother to choose. However, this obviously, in reality, is not a plausible arrangement."
"Meany of the Members here seem to believe that a ban on abortion intends to choose the rights of the fetus over the rights of the mother. This has been misconstrued into an idea of gender discrimination."
"I urge the Speaker to remind the Members that the ban on abortion is not intended to be a decision between the rights of a fetus and the rights of a mother, but a decision between the right to life and the right to bodily autonomy."
"Quite simply, a child unborn and a child born should be treated the same, regardless of consciousness or state of existence. Five minutes after a child is born, killing it would be called murder. Five minutes before, killing it would be called abortion."
"Madame Speaker, might I question why any of the Members of this Parliament believe that ten minutes such as these can change the legality of the ending of an innocent life?"
by Rebels and Saints » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:52 pm
Lamaredia wrote:Rebels and Saints wrote:
"Madame Speaker, in a perfect world, we could respect both the right of a child to live and the right of a mother to choose. However, this obviously, in reality, is not a plausible arrangement."
"Meany of the Members here seem to believe that a ban on abortion intends to choose the rights of the fetus over the rights of the mother. This has been misconstrued into an idea of gender discrimination."
"I urge the Speaker to remind the Members that the ban on abortion is not intended to be a decision between the rights of a fetus and the rights of a mother, but a decision between the right to life and the right to bodily autonomy."
"Quite simply, a child unborn and a child born should be treated the same, regardless of consciousness or state of existence. Five minutes after a child is born, killing it would be called murder. Five minutes before, killing it would be called abortion."
"Madame Speaker, might I question why any of the Members of this Parliament believe that ten minutes such as these can change the legality of the ending of an innocent life?"
"Madame Speaker, I would argue that the Hon. Rep. is grossly misjudging what abortion actually is. Abortion isn't something that is done 5 minutes before birth, and never will it be. Abortion is, as I am sure we will follow Sweden's example on the matter, free up to week 18 of pregnancy. After that, up to week 22, you need permission from Social Services in the case of the fetus or the mother having serious health issues. That later limit is lowered every time we can save a fetus at a younger age, which today is week 22."
by Lamaredia » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:59 pm
Rebels and Saints wrote:Lamaredia wrote:"Madame Speaker, I would argue that the Hon. Rep. is grossly misjudging what abortion actually is. Abortion isn't something that is done 5 minutes before birth, and never will it be. Abortion is, as I am sure we will follow Sweden's example on the matter, free up to week 18 of pregnancy. After that, up to week 22, you need permission from Social Services in the case of the fetus or the mother having serious health issues. That later limit is lowered every time we can save a fetus at a younger age, which today is week 22."
"Madame Speaker, I am not saying that in any reasonable case abortion is performed minutes before birth. What I am saying is that abortion can be performed just minutes before birth. Further, let us take week 22. How can we say that any amount of time can change a person's rights?"
by Rebels and Saints » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:05 pm
Lamaredia wrote:Rebels and Saints wrote:
"Madame Speaker, I am not saying that in any reasonable case abortion is performed minutes before birth. What I am saying is that abortion can be performed just minutes before birth. Further, let us take week 22. How can we say that any amount of time can change a person's rights?"
"Madame Speaker, a fetus is not a person, and a fetus can not survive outside the womb until at the absolute earliest week 23, and that's a very, very rare occurrence. A woman's right to her body trumps anything."
by New Lindale » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:15 pm
by Agarntrop » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:16 pm
New Lindale wrote:Madame speaker, I would like to request that we might vote on my bill submitted since we are on the topic of abortion, or in the minimum open it for debate.
by Martune » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:19 pm
New Lindale wrote:Madame speaker, I would like to request that we might vote on my bill submitted since we are on the topic of abortion, or in the minimum open it for debate.
by Martune » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:19 pm
by New Lindale » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:00 pm
by Martune » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:01 pm
New Lindale wrote:Madame Speaker, I wish to apologise for my break in protocol. My request was not intended so, but merely a suggestion this topic had been brought up
by Inhorto » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:14 pm
by Roosevetania » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:40 pm
by Martune » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:24 pm
The Life Amendment
Author: Alexander Norberg (NPP)
Sponsors: Salomon Kombila Berggren (SHAPC), Lance Darrow (FPP)
A bill to amend the Human Rights Act in order to protect the rights of unborn children and allow punishment of criminals
BE IT THEREFORE ENACTED, as follows:
§1 - Amendment
- Section 1 of the Universal Rights Act shall be amended to read: "Right to life is bestowed upon all persons upon conception and shall not be violated in any circumstance except to protect the lives of others in immediate, life-threatening peril, to punish heinous actions against other human life, or in wartime where the killing of enemy combatants is just under international law."
- The right to life of an unborn child may be waived when that of the mother is at risk.
- The penalty of death shall not be imposed in trivial cases or when guilt is not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
[color=#008000]Aye:[/color] [ ]
[color=#FF0000]No:[/color] [ ]
[color=grey]Abstain:[/color] [ ]
by Vedastia » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:29 pm
Dinake wrote:That's like saying "blockbuster wouldn't be losing ground to netflix if there wasn't any netflix".Zoice wrote:The far right is truly to blame. The left may lose ground to them, but they wouldn't be losing ground if there wasn't the far right in the first place calling for batshit insanity.
by Pere Housh Alpha » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:31 pm
by Van Hool Islands » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:39 pm
by Kowani » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:41 pm
by Crylante » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:46 pm
by Pere Housh Alpha » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:50 pm
by Martune » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:57 pm
Crylante wrote:“Because I care about women’s rights
by Pere Housh Alpha » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:15 am
by Alozia » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:15 am
(Ironic; me when I see Gord)Gordano and Lysandus wrote:I swear you are the LOTF Mariah sometimes
Peoples shara wrote: "Die nasty!!111"
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