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NS Parliament Chamber [IC]

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Vienna Eliot
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 422
Founded: Feb 16, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vienna Eliot » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:35 am

Here is a great place to whisper. TG and Discord works as well. This thread is, by definition, not for private conversations.

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The Archipelago Territory
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1946
Founded: May 17, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Archipelago Territory » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:37 am

Vienna Eliot wrote:Here is a great place to whisper. TG and Discord works as well. This thread is, by definition, not for private conversations.

No, we want our IC characters to whisper, if we wanted to talk we would on the OOC thread
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Martune
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Posts: 1054
Founded: Apr 22, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Martune » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:39 am

Vienna Eliot wrote:Here is a great place to whisper. TG and Discord works as well. This thread is, by definition, not for private conversations.

That is an OOC thread. This thread is used for IC actions that take place inside the chamber. Members can whisper, debate, and anything else IC.
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Lucia Carlsson, Independent
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Vienna Eliot
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 422
Founded: Feb 16, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vienna Eliot » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:40 am

Then take it to the other IC thread. Members will be disciplined for off-topic conversation, as they have been for six years.

OOC posts end here. Further complaints can be taken to the designated OOC thread.
Last edited by Vienna Eliot on Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Archipelago Territory
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Posts: 1946
Founded: May 17, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Archipelago Territory » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:00 am

Austin sees the speaker leave and runs to the chamber.

“Order, order! I will preside as Acting speaker until someone else would like to take on the role. Nominations shall be open for 24 hours, I will give the role of Acting Speaker to the first nominee if no one contests them in the first 2 hours and they shall handle the voting procedures.”
Last edited by The Archipelago Territory on Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Martune
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Posts: 1054
Founded: Apr 22, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Martune » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:02 am

The Archipelago Territory wrote:Austin sees the speaker leave and runs to the chamber.

“Order, order! I will preside as Acting speaker until someone else would like to take on the role”

OOC: I thought we said an admin. Anyways I can’t do it Bc I’ll be busy
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Lucia Carlsson, Independent
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The Archipelago Territory
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1946
Founded: May 17, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Archipelago Territory » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:02 am

Martune wrote:
The Archipelago Territory wrote:Austin sees the speaker leave and runs to the chamber.

“Order, order! I will preside as Acting speaker until someone else would like to take on the role”

OOC: I thought we said an admin. Anyways I can’t do it Bc I’ll be busy

OOC: if an admin nominated themselves, I’ll give them the role.
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Lamaredia
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Posts: 1546
Founded: May 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lamaredia » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:04 am

The Archipelago Territory wrote:Austin sees the speaker leave and runs to the chamber.

“Order, order! I will preside as Acting speaker until someone else would like to take on the role”

OOC: As decided upon the last resignation by Sarian, an Admin will take over the role of Speaker in the interim.
Vienna decided in the Discord that she was going to leave after a disagreement, and I have taken that as a confirmation of a resignation.

Charles walks up to the podium and shuffles the papers left there by the previous speaker.

"Continue with the debate of the current bill. Once the debate and voting on said bill is over, we will select a new speaker to replace the outgoing one."
Currently representing the SLP/R, Leading to a brighter future, in the NS Parliament RP as Representative Jonas Trägårdh Apelstierna.

Currently a co-admin of the NS Parliament RP

Political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

Result


Political test = Social Democrat
Cosmopolitan – 15%
Communistic - 44%
Anarchistic - 28%
Visionary - 50%
Secular - 53%
Pacifist - 12%
Anthropocentric– 16%

Result


Socio-Economic Ideology = Social Democracy
Social Democracy = 100%
Democratic Socialism = 83%
Anarchism 58%


Result
Last edited by Lamaredia on Fri June 07, 2019 1:05 AM, edited 52 times in total.

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The Archipelago Territory
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Posts: 1946
Founded: May 17, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Archipelago Territory » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:05 am

Austin stepped down from the podium, since no one contested the nomination.
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Lamaredia
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Posts: 1546
Founded: May 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lamaredia » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:11 am

OOC: Since Vienna decided that it was the appropriate course to edit her message and remove the bill from debate, here it comes again. Debate will go on for 24 hours from this post.

“Debate is now open on the Rational Taxation Scheme Act for 24 hours from this time.”

Rational Taxation Scheme Act
Author: Marius Forsman (C-P)
Sponsors: Viktoria Ljungstrand (SLP:R), Lisa Forss (GR), James Penta (GR)



To improve on the system of taxation in Saint Hilda, for the betterment, prosperity, and liberty, for all.

BE IT THEREFORE ENACTED, as follows:



§1 - Amendments
  1. All existing taxes imposed on Saint Hilda previous to independence shall be abolished.

§2 - Definitions
  1. Monetary values should be taken as USD, or their equivalent value in any local currency.
  2. Income, for the sake of corporate taxation, shall be considered as net profit after expenses.

§3 - Income Tax
  1. There shall be a progressive income tax, including a negative income credit model.
  2. The tax exemption cutoff shall be at $15,000.
  3. The income subsidy rate shall be 75%.
  4. The tax rate for income from $15,000 to $30,000 shall be 20%.
  5. The tax rate for income from $30,001 to $50,000 shall be 25%.
  6. The tax rate for income from $50,001 to $100,000 shall be 30%.
  7. The tax rate for income from $100,000 upwards shall be 40%.
  8. Income for the sake of this tax includes that of capital gains made from sales during that year.

§4 - Corporate Tax
  1. The income of corporations shall be taxed at a rate of 40%.
  2. Corporations with a total income of less than $200,000 shall receive a tax rate reduction of 10%.
  3. Corporations which move to relying entirely on sustainably generated electricity shall receive a five year tax rate reduction of 10%.
  4. Corporations which increase their number of employees by at least 50% shall receive a five year tax rate reduction of 10%.

§5 - Excises and Duties
  1. There shall be a per-unit excise on tobacco products, of $20.
  2. There shall be a per-unit excise on alcoholic products, of $10.

§6 - Absentee Property Tax
  1. Residential properties that are uninhabited for more than one half of a year in total shall be subject to a tax of 20% of property value for that year.
  2. Commercial or industrial properties that are not utilized or rented by owners for more than one half of a year in total shall be subject to a tax of 20% of property value for that year.
  3. In such cases where properties are shown to be unfit for habitation or use for the aforementioned periods, no such tax shall apply.

§7 - Office of Taxation
  1. There shall be established an Office of Taxation, with responsibility to organize and enforce the taxes of Saint Hilda.
  2. The Office of Taxation shall be lead by a Director, appointed by the Cabinet Minister assigned to the responsibility of finances.
  3. The Office of Taxation shall have the right to hire employees and enter into contracts, and occupy and rent office spaces, independently. The government of Saint Hilda is responsible for accrued expenses.
Currently representing the SLP/R, Leading to a brighter future, in the NS Parliament RP as Representative Jonas Trägårdh Apelstierna.

Currently a co-admin of the NS Parliament RP

Political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

Result


Political test = Social Democrat
Cosmopolitan – 15%
Communistic - 44%
Anarchistic - 28%
Visionary - 50%
Secular - 53%
Pacifist - 12%
Anthropocentric– 16%

Result


Socio-Economic Ideology = Social Democracy
Social Democracy = 100%
Democratic Socialism = 83%
Anarchism 58%


Result
Last edited by Lamaredia on Fri June 07, 2019 1:05 AM, edited 52 times in total.

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Zurkerx
Senator
 
Posts: 4443
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Capitalizt

Postby Zurkerx » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:14 am

Jonathon stands up.

"The Country is in desperate need of a tax code. While I have some qualms with the current bill, it is vital we set up a tax system. From there, we can change the system."
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New Lindale
Envoy
 
Posts: 315
Founded: Jun 21, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Lindale » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:23 am

Zurkerx wrote:Jonathon stands up.

"The Country is in desperate need of a tax code. While I have some qualms with the current bill, it is vital we set up a tax system. From there, we can change the system."

So are you saying we have to pass the bill now and fix it later? I find that extremely problematic. Although I agree a tax system is necessary, we cannot just pass it on this basis. As you mentioned, you have qualms, and looking back there are quite a few individuals with issues with this bill.
Stefan Almeda, National People's Party of Saint Hilda
-NS Parliament

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Nova Anglicana
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Posts: 1956
Founded: Jul 15, 2013
New York Times Democracy

Postby Nova Anglicana » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:24 am

Zurkerx wrote:Jonathon stands up.

"The Country is in desperate need of a tax code. While I have some qualms with the current bill, it is vital we set up a tax system. From there, we can change the system."


"Hear, hear! To have a functioning government, we need revenue, and not a temporary source like we are relying on now. While I, too, believe some of the taxes to be too high, we must put something in place. Once we have established a tax system and revenue flow, we can adjust the system."
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WBC 29/38, IBS VII, RUWC XXI/XXVI, WJHC IV, Londinium 7s I, WCoH 28, RAHI II

Quarterfinals
WBC 27/30/31/37/41, IBS VI, IBC 15, WJHC VI/IX, RAHI I, AVBF Rugby Sevens I, RUWC 24/25

Hosted
WBC 31/35, Londinium 7s I/II, IBS IX


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New Lindale
Envoy
 
Posts: 315
Founded: Jun 21, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Lindale » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:32 am

As for I have mentioned previously, I have quite a few problems with this bill, and it is primarily we do not have any data regarding what the income rates of the citizens are. Also, I would like to point out several other issues with the bill in its entirety. Aside from my opinion of the corporate tax rate should at least start at 25%, there are several other policies that are not specific, therefore making it difficult to determine where one would be applied.
To begin with, what makes one eligible to the subsidy, there are no indicators to this allocation. For corporate taxes, what is the starting period of said tax breaks? When the business begins the practice, or when this bill is passed? On the duty on tobacco and alcohol, what is the unit that will determine the initial total duty, and if the rates are determined by local governments, under what jurisdiction? And finally, what occurs in this scenario:
If a person has a home that is severely damaged for more than a year, and they must live somewhere else temporarily, would said person be taxed even if his home is being repaired during this period?
Last edited by New Lindale on Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stefan Almeda, National People's Party of Saint Hilda
-NS Parliament

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Lysone
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 42
Founded: Jun 09, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Lysone » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:35 am

"Has this government, in its first piece of legislation, decided it is too lazy to come up with a tax code it actually supports? Or is it really just happy to trade off any beliefs it may have in return for the Centre-Progressive votes it needs to stay in office?"
Birgitta Marklund, Member of Parliament (SLP:R)
Johanna Nyberg, former Commissioner for Fort Ulrika (SLP:R), Chairwoman of the Movement for Democratic Change

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The Archipelago Territory
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1946
Founded: May 17, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Archipelago Territory » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:37 am

New Lindale wrote:As for I have mentioned previously, I have quite a few problems with this bill, and it is primarily we do not have any data regarding what the income rates of the citizens are. Also, I would like to point out several other issues with the bill in its entirety. Aside from my opinion of the corporate tax rate should at least start at 25%, there are several other policies that are not specific, therefore making it difficult to determine where one would be applied.
To begin with, what makes one eligible to the subsidy, there are no indicators to this allocation. For corporate taxes, what is the starting period of said tax breaks? When the business begins the practice, or when this bill is passed? On the duty on tobacco and alcohol, what is the unit that will determine the initial total duty, and if the rates are determined by local governments, under what jurisdiction? And finally, what occurs in this scenario:
If a person has a home that is severely damaged for more than a year, and they must live somewhere else temporarily, would said person be taxed even if his home is being repaired during this period?


Austin turns to his colleague, “you know you have to vote yes on this, right? I despise it, but I don’t want the deal to crumble so I’m voting for it.”
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The Archipelago Territory
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Posts: 1946
Founded: May 17, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Archipelago Territory » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:38 am

Lysone wrote:"Has this government, in its first piece of legislation, decided it is too lazy to come up with a tax code it actually supports? Or is it really just happy to trade off any beliefs it may have in return for the Centre-Progressive votes it needs to stay in office?"

“No, the deal mandates we use their tax code in return for the votes.”
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Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16644
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:39 am

Lysone wrote:"Has this government, in its first piece of legislation, decided it is too lazy to come up with a tax code it actually supports? Or is it really just happy to trade off any beliefs it may have in return for the Centre-Progressive votes it needs to stay in office?"

“I believe it is less about laziness and more about lack of funds. Nothing runs without money.”
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Agarntrop
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Founded: May 14, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Agarntrop » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:46 am

"I would like to ask the acting speaker where and how we can propose amendments to this bill"
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Zurkerx
Senator
 
Posts: 4443
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Capitalizt

Postby Zurkerx » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:47 am

New Lindale wrote:
Zurkerx wrote:Jonathon stands up.

"The Country is in desperate need of a tax code. While I have some qualms with the current bill, it is vital we set up a tax system. From there, we can change the system."

So are you saying we have to pass the bill now and fix it later? I find that extremely problematic. Although I agree a tax system is necessary, we cannot just pass it on this basis. As you mentioned, you have qualms, and looking back there are quite a few individuals with issues with this bill.


"Mr. Speaker, our country is currently relying on a temporary source of revenue as one of our colleagues have mentioned. As a nominee for Minister of Finance and Economic Affairs, it's vital that a system of revenue is established. If we don't put in place a tax system, our funding will dry up, of which, we would have to rely heavily on borrowing, and that can erode our economic standing and discourage investment in our great nation. We must pass this or otherwise, we face economic hardships."
A Golden Civic: the New Libertarian
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I Do What I Want
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Lamaredia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1546
Founded: May 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lamaredia » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:52 am

"Order! I would like to remind the honourable members of this chamber that it is customary to start your argument with either a 'Mr. Speaker' or 'Madame Speaker'"

OOC: This is a leftover from earlier iterations, and makes everything a bit nicer to read.
Currently representing the SLP/R, Leading to a brighter future, in the NS Parliament RP as Representative Jonas Trägårdh Apelstierna.

Currently a co-admin of the NS Parliament RP

Political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

Result


Political test = Social Democrat
Cosmopolitan – 15%
Communistic - 44%
Anarchistic - 28%
Visionary - 50%
Secular - 53%
Pacifist - 12%
Anthropocentric– 16%

Result


Socio-Economic Ideology = Social Democracy
Social Democracy = 100%
Democratic Socialism = 83%
Anarchism 58%


Result
Last edited by Lamaredia on Fri June 07, 2019 1:05 AM, edited 52 times in total.

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The Archipelago Territory
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1946
Founded: May 17, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Archipelago Territory » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:01 pm

Agarntrop wrote:"I would like to ask the acting speaker where and how we can propose amendments to this bill"

“In their office”
In the OOC thread

User avatar
Lamaredia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1546
Founded: May 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lamaredia » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:12 pm

Agarntrop wrote:"I would like to ask the acting speaker where and how we can propose amendments to this bill"

"I would direct the honourable member to my office. I would also like to say that amendments will not be considered on the floor before the bill is passed, meaning that a bill can be amended after passing."

OOC: This is also from previous iterations, because making amendments while a bill is on the floor is ridiculous and really reduces the amounts of bills we can have on the floor in the long run.
Currently representing the SLP/R, Leading to a brighter future, in the NS Parliament RP as Representative Jonas Trägårdh Apelstierna.

Currently a co-admin of the NS Parliament RP

Political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

Result


Political test = Social Democrat
Cosmopolitan – 15%
Communistic - 44%
Anarchistic - 28%
Visionary - 50%
Secular - 53%
Pacifist - 12%
Anthropocentric– 16%

Result


Socio-Economic Ideology = Social Democracy
Social Democracy = 100%
Democratic Socialism = 83%
Anarchism 58%


Result
Last edited by Lamaredia on Fri June 07, 2019 1:05 AM, edited 52 times in total.

User avatar
Lysone
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 42
Founded: Jun 09, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Lysone » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:23 pm

Kowani wrote:
Lysone wrote:"Has this government, in its first piece of legislation, decided it is too lazy to come up with a tax code it actually supports? Or is it really just happy to trade off any beliefs it may have in return for the Centre-Progressive votes it needs to stay in office?"

“I believe it is less about laziness and more about lack of funds. Nothing runs without money.”

"If the government doesn't like the proposed tax code, it is capable of writing another one that allows it to raise revenue. It is choosing not to do this, and openly admitting to voting for legislation it doesn't support, because its members are willing to entirely forget their beliefs for the sole purpose of staying in office."
Birgitta Marklund, Member of Parliament (SLP:R)
Johanna Nyberg, former Commissioner for Fort Ulrika (SLP:R), Chairwoman of the Movement for Democratic Change

User avatar
The Archipelago Territory
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1946
Founded: May 17, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Archipelago Territory » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:37 pm

Lysone wrote:
Kowani wrote:“I believe it is less about laziness and more about lack of funds. Nothing runs without money.”

"If the government doesn't like the proposed tax code, it is capable of writing another one that allows it to raise revenue. It is choosing not to do this, and openly admitting to voting for legislation it doesn't support, because its members are willing to entirely forget their beliefs for the sole purpose of staying in office."

“Is that not how politics works?”
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I am a Progressive Libertarian Capitalist
YANG GANG 2020

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