NS Parliament Chamber [IC]

[New Lindale]

Madame Speaker, for the context in terms of the application which the new taxation scheme will apply in full, I request the accesibility to the current taxation scheme in use, and the record of citizen income data, or data pertaining to the percentage of citizens whom earn an income within the various ranges outlined in this bill?

[Vienna Eliot]

Madame Speaker, for the context in terms of the application which the new taxation scheme will apply in full, I request the accesibility to the current taxation scheme in use, and the record of citizen income data, or data pertaining to the percentage of citizens whom earn an income within the various ranges outlined in this bill?

The Speaker consults with counsel.

"It is the chair's understanding that there is no taxation scheme currently in use, and that the government is currently operating on funds allocated the previous fiscal year."

[The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism]

Marius sat and listened to the initial criticisms. It was interesting that most complaints had come from the government's side of the chamber, the side that was required by the Confidence and Supply Agreement to vote in favour of the bill. Nonetheless, he supposed it was good that parliamentarians were staying honest to their policy standpoints. He looked around, and felt it was about time to stand in defense of his bill. Marius stood, and cleared his throat.

"Madame Speaker,"

"That corporate tax rate is needlessly high. It will kill local business across St Hilda; and that's my most optimistic point of view. Or, alternatively, there can be tax subsidies for our agribusiness and agricultural sectors. That way we can make sure that our food is locally produced, that we keep our jobs here and that our farmers aren't left in the dark.

Thoughts?"

"I respect the honorable member's care for the significant matter of local agricultural industry. He should consider that the maximum corporate tax rate proscribed will only apply to large corporations, that do no work towards sustainability, and do not produce new jobs for Saint Hilda. Additionally, I find that supporting specific industries or goals via indirect funding routes like targeted tax breaks is inefficient, and builds towards a great byzantine treasury which is difficult for the public to hold to account, to the benefit of special interests. If the honorable member wishes to provide support to local agricultural industries, he should consider a direct funding method such as an actual subsidy, rather than accomplish such things through complicating the taxation scheme."

“I agree with the honorable member. This bill is a socialist bill, not a liberal one. It tries to control the tax rate by forcing businesses to do things or else pay abnormally high taxes!”

"Madame Speaker, the term "Socialism" refers to a variety of economic and political models wherein the capital goods of a society are owned in public, collective, or cooperative ownership. The Rational Taxation Scheme Act makes no mention of capital goods one way or the other so to hang the banner of socialism on the act is nothing short of hard-right fear-mongering. The member, I believe, refers to the indicative planning methodology utilized in the corporate taxation section of the bill."

"Indicative planning, unlike directive/mandatory planning, is utilized in many free market economies, prominently France and Japan. In fact, non-universal tax cuts are common in many very right-wing governments. The only difference being that the indicative planning used in this bill is used not to support the extremely wealthy, but to build a sustainable future and grow the desperately needed job market in our economy."

"First of all, I'm happy to see that our fledgling government is taking rational steps and attempting to find a reasonable tax system for all hard-working Sankta Hildans. I am also pleased to note that the tax rates proposed here are not outrageously high. With that said, I am concerned that the proposed rates are high enough to place a burden on people who have limited means to bear it. In addition, I fear that the rather high proposed corporate tax may have the unintended consequence of stifling our economy and limiting career opportunities for the people of Sankta Hilda.

The people of our great nation work hard, and I think it behooves us, our people and our economy to let our people keep as much of their hard-earned money as possible."

"Madame Speaker, I am appreciative that there are honorable members to the right of my position who can make known their concerns in a reasonable and principled manner. The honorable member will be pleased, I am sure, to hear that the tax rates proposed in this bill are actually much more forgiving in terms of personal income than the rates our citizens were paying to Sweden prior to independence, so the member could reframe his thinking that this is in fact a tax cut for those who need it."

"As for corporate taxes, small businesses that build the foundation of our economy can attain a rate as low as 10% of net profits if they are willing to work towards the goals we as a society share. I am confident that this bill will not be found overbearing to the good, hard working people of our nation."

[New Lindale]

Thank you for the insight Madame Speaker, but is the later of my request avaliable?

[The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism]

"I should further like, madame speaker, to draw attention to Section 3, Subsections a, b, and c, of this act. The opposition has been absolutely right during question time to raise concerns about this government's plan for social welfare going forwards. The establishment of a negative income tax model is, as I see it, an ideal solution. Those people who find themselves in need can rely on the safety net of a negative income tax rate at the lowest levels, but there is no incentive to stop working permanently. There is no way, in this scheme, for an individual to be punished for earning their own income."

"I do not believe this government has an alternative solution to social welfare, and I have not seen concrete proposals from the opposition either. The Rational Taxation Scheme Act gets it done, Madame Speaker."

[New Lindale]

"I should further like, madame speaker, to draw attention to Section 3, Subsections a, b, and c, of this act. The opposition has been absolutely right during question time to raise concerns about this government's plan for social welfare going forwards. The establishment of a negative income tax model is, as I see it, an ideal solution. Those people who find themselves in need can rely on the safety net of a negative income tax rate at the lowest levels, but there is no incentive to stop working permanently. There is no way, in this scheme, for an individual to be punished for earning their own income."

"I do not believe this government has an alternative solution to social welfare, and I have not seen concrete proposals from the opposition either. The Rational Taxation Scheme Act gets it done, Madame Speaker."

I agree with my colleague on the potential abuse of social welfare, but also that the potential that the tax burden may actually reduce the incomes families, causing them to enter poverty. Although I am awaiting data with further information, generally $100K is not considered wealthy in most places, especially in western European countries that Saint Hilda is similar to since another taxation is prevalent. Another negative effect that is seen is that families who have a higher expense but do not meet the threshold for assistance also suffer with these types of systems. I believe that a system is closer to a flat tax for earners above the poverty level to be initiated. What is more commonly an issue that leads to tax evasion, is the sheer complexity rather than rates. Therefore, I believe we should be looking to eliminate loopholes, as well as hidden charges. In turn, if we are able to attract more businessmen here, we will then have a higher tax income. In a way, a balance might be more effective. We need to have our tax rate that is low, but also provides enough income. In the end, if we are business friendly, this will benefit people since this will provide jobs that will weaken the burden on social services. My main issue is not applying to the larger chains, but to small businesses, because in the end they will end up suffering from the tax burden because they would have to be paying higher wages, because of increasing costs.

[Costa Fierro]

"Madam Speak, I rise in support of this act as I believe it goes towards the overarching goal of establishing a new taxation system before the financial year ends. However, I would like to ask the author of the bill two questions."

[Pere Housh Alpha]

“Debate is now open on the Rational Taxation Scheme Act for 48 hours.”

Rational Taxation Scheme Act
Author: Marius Forsman (C-P)
Sponsors: Viktoria Ljungstrand (SLP:R), Lisa Forss (GR), James Penta (GR)

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To improve on the system of taxation in Saint Hilda, for the betterment, prosperity, and liberty, for all.

BE IT THEREFORE ENACTED, as follows:

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§1 - Amendments

1. All existing taxes imposed on Saint Hilda previous to independence shall be abolished.

§2 - Definitions

1. Monetary values should be taken as USD, or their equivalent value in any local currency.
2. Income, for the sake of corporate taxation, shall be considered as net profit after expenses.

§3 - Income Tax

1. There shall be a progressive income tax, including a negative income credit model.
2. The tax exemption cutoff shall be at $15,000.
3. The income subsidy rate shall be 75%.
4. The tax rate for income from $15,000 to $30,000 shall be 20%.
5. The tax rate for income from $30,001 to $50,000 shall be 25%.
6. The tax rate for income from $50,001 to $100,000 shall be 30%.
7. The tax rate for income from $100,000 upwards shall be 40%.
8. Income for the sake of this tax includes that of capital gains made from sales during that year.

§4 - Corporate Tax

1. The income of corporations shall be taxed at a rate of 40%.
2. Corporations with a total income of less than $200,000 shall receive a tax rate reduction of 10%.
3. Corporations which move to relying entirely on sustainably generated electricity shall receive a five year tax rate reduction of 10%.
4. Corporations which increase their number of employees by at least 50% shall receive a five year tax rate reduction of 10%.

§5 - Excises and Duties

1. There shall be a per-unit excise on tobacco products, of $20.
2. There shall be a per-unit excise on alcoholic products, of $10.

§6 - Absentee Property Tax

1. Residential properties that are uninhabited for more than one half of a year in total shall be subject to a tax of 20% of property value for that year.
2. Commercial or industrial properties that are not utilized or rented by owners for more than one half of a year in total shall be subject to a tax of 20% of property value for that year.
3. In such cases where properties are shown to be unfit for habitation or use for the aforementioned periods, no such tax shall apply.

§7 - Office of Taxation

1. There shall be established an Office of Taxation, with responsibility to organize and enforce the taxes of Saint Hilda.
2. The Office of Taxation shall be lead by a Director, appointed by the Cabinet Minister assigned to the responsibility of finances.
3. The Office of Taxation shall have the right to hire employees and enter into contracts, and occupy and rent office spaces, independently. The government of Saint Hilda is responsible for accrued expenses.

Michael Thomas stands up to speak

"The corporate tax rate and the income tax rates in this bill is a little high in my opinion and should be lowered. We want to bring businesses to Saint Hilda, not chase them away. I will not support this bill until these changes are made."

[Kowani]

“A question arises-do we have a currency?”

[Pere Housh Alpha]

“A question arises-do we have a currency?”

"Yes, what do we call our currency?"

[The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism]

"Madame Speaker, there have been proposals for a local currency, the use of the Swedish Krona, or the US Dollar. This bill jumps that question entirely by defining levels as equivalent to certain USD values so that we do not proscribe a solution to the currency problem in an otherwise unrelated bill."

"Madam Speak, I rise in support of this act as I believe it goes towards the overarching goal of establishing a new taxation system before the financial year ends. However, I would like to ask the author of the bill two questions."

"I am happy to invite the honorable member to ask his questions, madame speaker."

"The corporate tax rate and the income tax rates in this bill is a little high in my opinion and should be lowered. We want to bring businesses to Saint Hilda, not chase them away. I will not support this bill until these changes are made."

"Madame Speaker, I respect the honorable member's right to an opinion. Given the fact however, that the member's party (the NPP) has agreed to support this bill as part of our electoral deal, I am curious whether the honorable member plans to break his party whip to vote against this bill?"

[Pere Housh Alpha]

"Madame Speaker, there have been proposals for a local currency, the use of the Swedish Krona, or the US Dollar. This bill jumps that question entirely by defining levels as equivalent to certain USD values so that we do not proscribe a solution to the currency problem in an otherwise unrelated bill."

"Madam Speak, I rise in support of this act as I believe it goes towards the overarching goal of establishing a new taxation system before the financial year ends. However, I would like to ask the author of the bill two questions."

"I am happy to invite the honorable member to ask his questions, madame speaker."

"The corporate tax rate and the income tax rates in this bill is a little high in my opinion and should be lowered. We want to bring businesses to Saint Hilda, not chase them away. I will not support this bill until these changes are made."

"Madame Speaker, I respect the honorable member's right to an opinion. Given the fact however, that the member's party (the NPP) has agreed to support this bill as part of our electoral deal, I am curious whether the honorable member plans to break his party whip to vote against this bill?"

"If I remember correctly, It isn't mandatory that I have to agree with my party on every thing. More than likely, I will abstain or vote nay when this bill comes to a vote."

[Equitesia]

We need an official currency. I propose the Sankta Hilda Kronor (it's obvious but is the best)

[Pere Housh Alpha]

We need an official currency. I propose the Sankta Hilda Kronor (it's obvious but is the best)

"I propose the Saint Hilda Dollar to be our currency."

[Kowani]

“Anyone who wishes to propose a currency should write a bill, so that this chamber may deliberate on it. As important as the issue is, this is not the time.”

[Martune]

"Madame Speaker, there have been proposals for a local currency, the use of the Swedish Krona, or the US Dollar. This bill jumps that question entirely by defining levels as equivalent to certain USD values so that we do not proscribe a solution to the currency problem in an otherwise unrelated bill."

"I am happy to invite the honorable member to ask his questions, madame speaker."


"Madame Speaker, I respect the honorable member's right to an opinion. Given the fact however, that the member's party (the NPP) has agreed to support this bill as part of our electoral deal, I am curious whether the honorable member plans to break his party whip to vote against this bill?"

"If I remember correctly, It isn't mandatory that I have to agree with my party on every thing. More than likely, I will abstain or vote nay when this bill comes to a vote."

Robin, the Chief Whip, shoots a glance upon hearing this.

[Borovan entered the region as he]

Alastar comments on the rational tax scheme bill.
"I like the fact that there is a progressive tax and we have some tax cuts but the corporate tax rate is a little too high. Even if they are large corporations they are businesses that have to earn their profits so they can pay their workers, operations and reinvest the company. Also I might say the bottom tax bracket for workers earning $15,000 to $30,000 for 20% should be reduced. They are working class folks and they should try to be not taxed as much with the jobs they have."

[Pere Housh Alpha]

"If I remember correctly, It isn't mandatory that I have to agree with my party on every thing. More than likely, I will abstain or vote nay when this bill comes to a vote."

Robin, the Chief Whip, shoots a glance upon hearing this.

Michael leans over to Robin and whispers, "I'm about that but the corporate tax rate is my main concern. Lowering it would encourage foreign businesses to come to our beautiful country."

[Martune]

Robin, the Chief Whip, shoots a glance upon hearing this.

Michael leans over to Robin and whispers, "I'm about that but the corporate tax rate is my main concern. Lowering it would encourage foreign businesses to come to our beautiful country."

"My hands are tied, the way it seems is there is no way around this tax scheme. Not unless we ditch C-P, which most likely will not happen. Any threats of amending it will receive a confidence vote. I'm sorry but I have to whip for the bill."

[Pere Housh Alpha]

Michael leans over to Robin and whispers, "I'm about that but the corporate tax rate is my main concern. Lowering it would encourage foreign businesses to come to our beautiful country."

"My hands are tied, the way it seems is there is no way around this tax scheme. Not unless we ditch C-P, which most likely will not happen. Any threats of amending it will receive a confidence vote. I'm sorry but I have to whip for the bill."

Michael frowns in disappointment, "Then I can't support the bill Robin. I'm very sorry."

[Martune]

"My hands are tied, the way it seems is there is no way around this tax scheme. Not unless we ditch C-P, which most likely will not happen. Any threats of amending it will receive a confidence vote. I'm sorry but I have to whip for the bill."

Michael frowns in disappointment, "Then I can't support the bill Robin. I'm very sorry."

"I understand. But know what will happen should you disobey the whip."

[Costa Fierro]

"I am happy to invite the honorable member to ask his questions, madame speaker."

"In that case, Madam Speaker, I rise to pose these two questions to the Honourable Minister. My first question is does the minister consider a flat tobacco tax appropriate in order to reduce harm and discourage the up take of new tobacco consumers? My second question is the following: has the minister considered making provisions for local taxes outside of central government taxation?"

[Pere Housh Alpha]

Michael frowns in disappointment, "Then I can't support the bill Robin. I'm very sorry."

"I understand. But know what will happen should you disobey the whip."

"Ok I will vote for the bill but with great reluctance."

[Equitesia]

I vote for the immediate and necessary review of the proposal.

[The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism]

"I am happy to invite the honorable member to ask his questions, madame speaker."

"In that case, Madam Speaker, I rise to pose these two questions to the Honourable Minister. My first question is does the minister consider a flat tobacco tax appropriate in order to reduce harm and discourage the up take of new tobacco consumers? My second question is the following: has the minister considered making provisions for local taxes outside of central government taxation?"

"Madame Speaker, the per-unit excise on tobacco products is part of a wider strategy of indicative methodology in economic planning, and the hope is that it will discourage growth in consumption of harmful products. Concerns about the possible regressive nature of "sin taxes" harming the poor disproportionately are something to be considered, but I believe the negative income tax model utilized in personal income tax will more than make up for possible regression from this strategy. In future, if research indicates that per-unit excises are excessively damaging to equality or perform poorly in discouraging growth in Saint Hilda, I would be open to an amendment to propose a different solution."

"The second question is important, madame speaker, and I thank the honorable member for raising it. Defining local government in Saint Hilda under our new system is important, and it should be one of the first focuses of this government. At this time, however, I feel it would not be proper to proscribe specific local tax laws in this bill, as there is still uncertainty in that area and I am of the opinion that it should mostly be left to local governments to determine their local rates of taxation. I believe, at the present time, municipalities are still levying local taxes through bylaws, though certainly such systems should be formalized in legislation when a bill is proposed to establish a system for local governance in Saint Hilda."