1906: Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC-DEAD]

[Pasong Tirad]

Did some digging on Ethiopia and it turns out the current population I've set - 27 million - is nearly twice that what the number should be in real life (around 14-15 million), so I've made some changes to my histories, and dialed down my population count to a much more reasonable 20 million.

To get to that number, I made one slight change: the Ethiopian warring states period never happens. Without the warring states period, the over half a dozen famines that were directly linked or plausibly linked to the constant warfare of the era never happens. Thus, the population booms.

Also just realized that I have Victoria 2 in my Steam library. Will work on reorganizing my territories into proper regions based on it. Maybe I'll even learn to play Vic2 this time (it was horribly complicated the first time I tried it out, that I couldn't get through it!).

[Reverend Norv]

Even given the fact that the French Navy is a secondary priority, it still seems strange for it to be smaller than the Portuguese Navy, considering the enormous difference in population and industrial capacity. I'm going to leave my numbers where they are for now, but if it becomes relevant in the IC, we may have to revisit it.

I find that strange too. I think you should not underestimate the French Navy. I would be fine if you had more. I do not think it is a problem with my Industrial Capacity but simply an underestimation of your navy. I tried to keep it very realistic and I searched Wikipedia and other sites on what might be realistic. Including the types of ships. My battleships run at 18 knots.

Furthermore, my empire is widely disconnected. The distance from Portugal to Luanda, Angola is far too great. It seems you depend very much on your Trans-Saharan Railway.

Even given the fact that the French Navy is a secondary priority, it still seems strange for it to be smaller than the Portuguese Navy, considering the enormous difference in population and industrial capacity. I'm going to leave my numbers where they are for now, but if it becomes relevant in the IC, we may have to revisit it.

A Navy with just 3 Battleships for a country as big as France seems weird though.

The Germans built 24 Battleships from 1891 till 1906. Just to put this into perspective. Now yes, the Germans were dope and were trying to start ruling the seven seas but still...having just one 8th of that seems weak. Friggin' hell, you're at half the strength of the Austro-Hungarian Battleship fleet and I bet they'd kill to get your docks and ports. The Habsburgs were anything but a naval power.

I can guarantee you that Thrac will have a larger battleship navy than that. He needs to in order to actually control his part of the med from any other interlopers other than the French navy because this French navy is so weak that the K.u.k. Navy could've blown it out of the water.

So yeah, you really should invest some more into your naval sector. Even with a godly Army, this is too little for France and definitely too little to achieve France's strategic objective in the western med.

I originally lowballed the Navy pretty dramatically, since I made the French Army so exceptionally powerful, and I didn't want France to be too overpowered. But since the people who would be most affected are clearly fine with it, I think I will make an expansion.

The French Navy in 1914, historically, was 26 battleships, 35 cruisers, 84 destroyers, 120 torpedo boats, and 83 submarines. That is too high, both because it's 1906 and not 1914, and because the French Army is far stronger in this timeline and would have received more resources relative to the Navy. But it's still a ridiculous difference from the 3 battleships, 8 heavy cruisers, 16 light cruisers, and 20 torpedo craft in my app.

So, a compromise: 14 battleships, 25 cruisers, 49 destroyers, and 81 torpedo boats. No submarines, because that 8-year difference was critical in the development of modern submarines. I think that seems reasonable, and it will provide a benchmark for the ERE for the rough size of the Mediterranean's two main navies. If anyone objects, I'm of course open to correct course, but I think it patches a hole in the realism here.

[Reverend Norv]

Also, I noticed that a bunch of the links in the OP are out of date, connecting to reservations even when players have since completed their apps. Not a huge issue, but I just wanted to remind the OP board of it, since working links make it easier to keep track of all the related histories. Thanks!

[Tracian Empire]

My role as the Eastern Empire is clearly more limited than that of the west, but I love the history. Even so, I'd personally love for the history to perhaps focus on some French defeats too? I of course can not talk for the other players who get directly defeated by France, but I think that the wars surrounding Guerin should end in a clear French defeat and have consequences with a treaty imposed on France.

As for the one campaign on my side, the one in Cyprus, I believe that it would have gotten more than bogged down. Cyprus is well fortified and absolutely crucial to the Eastern Roman strategy in the Mediterranean - if your forces would have successfully landed there, there is a high chance that they might have ended up blocked and surrounded on the island.

I considered the point about defeats also. Here is the issue I encountered.

The Commonwealth is not just a military but an ideological threat to its neighbors. It represents an entirely different model for Western civilization. So if it were ever to be defeated - really, crushingly defeated and occupied - its enemies would absolutely impose a change of regime upon it, just as the Coalition brought back the Bourbons in real life. And then the Commonwealth as we know it would cease to exist. So France is a bit like Israel: it cannot afford to lose a single war. That's why I ended the Guerin era the way I did: he couldn't win decisively, but he also couldn't lose decisively without it meaning the end of the Commonwealth. Given that, he should just die and leave everybody shell-shocked.

That said, I did build in some defeats for France, though I should have been more explicit about calling them that. This happens once against Spain in the 1600s, once against Spain, Germany, and West Rome in the 1760s, and once against the two Romes in the 1840s. Basically, any time France goes to war and doesn't gain territory, it's because it gets beaten or at least exhausted on the battlefield. It's just that these defeats are not decisive enough to cause the Commonwealth to be occupied and its regime overthrown. For that reason, the French regard them as a draw, but the rest of Europe treats them as victories: these are times when the monarchs beat the republican menace back behind its borders.

Similarly, as for Cyprus, that's what I had in mind when I said "bogged down": the French Army got onto the island, and then couldn't figure out how to get off, and the Commonwealth had to make terms in part in order to rescue its stranded army.

Does that help to address some of your concerns?

And back to what I never managed to answer - I do understand what you are saying. It does make sense, and in the end, it's also up to the players that you are fighting with, so it's not necessarily connected to me. But I do think that some of the victories could at the very least be tempered a little, or balanced. You could perhaps put a bit more emphasis on when your troops were defeated, and you should take into account the idea that the Alps on the Italian side have been fortified by the Verian Wall ever since the Middle Ages, a structure that evolved and was modernized step by step, with fortresses in the mountain passes and everything, so I highly doubt that the French forces would have been able to just push through and overpower the Western Romans every time. Especially since I'm not sure what effect would that have on the WRE and its regional politics.

You'll have to discuss those wars and victories with the players in question and convince them to agree with it.

[Alt Div Admin]

• Reservations expired and removed: Chile, Frisia, Argentina, Inca, Great Britain
• Reservations accepted: Bengal Empire, Free Guyana Commonwealth (the claim for Nova Tarragona did not include a formal reservation and there has been no activity ever since Monday, making it certainly expired), Portugal (with the mention that the colonial claims, while on the map, are still being debated).

We apologize for any inconveniences - some of us were busy or had limited internet access for the past few days. We'll do our best to have the apps that are finished reviewed as quickly as possible, and the launch date of the IC is drawing near! As always, if you happen find some errors on our behalf in the list or in the map, please say so, errare humanum est.
Also, since we have significant territories that are blank, if you know any people who might be interested in this roleplay, please spread the news!

Oh, and about the colors, if you have a certain preference, you can say so in the thread, and we'll see what we can do - but making the map as clear and visually appealing as possible will be our main goal.

~Thrace

[Insaeldor]

I'm still active, incramentally working on the app but I've got split shifts all this week at work so I've had limited time to really get down on it. I might rework the claim and get a formal reservation up after my first shift today.

[Pasong Tirad]

I'd prefer one of the Ethiopian colors as my marker on the map with my preference being for Ethiopian yellow (#fcdd09), and if not possible green (#078930), and then lastly red (#da121a).

#AltDiv so ya'll can see the request as you trawl the thread.

[Tracian Empire]

I'm still active, incramentally working on the app but I've got split shifts all this week at work so I've had limited time to really get down on it. I might rework the claim and get a formal reservation up after my first shift today.

Well, unfortunately the first few days of the week were rather chaotic as far as claims were concerned, and with no words from you, your claim is technically out. If you wish to talk with the Swedish player for him to potentially give you Venezuela and be compensated with another colony, and he accepts it, and if you can work out your border with Free Guyana, then you could take over that, if not I'd recommend perhaps shifting your claim to somewhere else in South America.

[Finland SSR]

No apps got accepted? Iirc, Spain, France and ERE all got finished.

[Tracian Empire]

No apps got accepted? Iirc, Spain, France and ERE all got finished.

As I said, we'll do our best to review the apps that got accepted. Oscal unfortunately is bogged down by real life events that took him by surprise, and we're in the process of reassigning tasks.

I'm reviewing some apps right now, but since my knowledge in certain fields are limited, I'll only review what I can.

[Finland SSR]

No apps got accepted? Iirc, Spain, France and ERE all got finished.

As I said, we'll do our best to review the apps that got accepted. Oscal unfortunately is bogged down by real life events that took him by surprise, and we're in the process of reassigning tasks.

I'm reviewing some apps right now, but since my knowledge in certain fields are limited, I'll only review what I can.

Ah, that's perfectly fine. No rush, it's not like the IC is gonna start soon anyway what with all this Wild West of a claiming session.

[Insaeldor]

I'm still active, incramentally working on the app but I've got split shifts all this week at work so I've had limited time to really get down on it. I might rework the claim and get a formal reservation up after my first shift today.

Well, unfortunately the first few days of the week were rather chaotic as far as claims were concerned, and with no words from you, your claim is technically out. If you wish to talk with the Swedish player for him to potentially give you Venezuela and be compensated with another colony, and he accepts it, and if you can work out your border with Free Guyana, then you could take over that, if not I'd recommend perhaps shifting your claim to somewhere else in South America.

I definetly get it, I'm thinking of replacing my claim to the currently unclaimed areas of argentina. Like i said I'll get a formal reservation up after my first shift today.

[Tracian Empire]

The Empire of Ethiopia (የኢትዮጵያ ንጉሠ ነገሥት መንግሥተ / Ye’ītiyop’iya Niguše Negešiti Menigišite)

Accepted! And if you do decide to go forward with that engagement we should talk about it, since there are a couple different princes that Woizero Zenebework could possibly be engaged to

Maritime Empire of Japan (大日本海国, Dai Nippon Kaikoku)

Accepted!

習王朝 - Great Xi, or the Xi Dynasty

Accepted too

But keep in mind that roles were still not assigned, so there is still a small chance that my decisions might be overturned later today, so keep that in mind as a disclaimer

[Tracian Empire]

Kingdom of Spain / Reino de España

You can consider your app mostly accepted, but the whole history around the 40 Years War will be pending on a reaction from the WRE player. That includes a personal union between the WRE and Spain, because I'm honestly not sure how a personal union would even work - it will be up to Kai.

[Tracian Empire]

Grand Duchy of Brittany (Dugelezh-Veur Breizh | Graund-duché de Bertaèyn | Grand-duché de Bretagne)

It looks alright to me, accepted

[Reverend Norv]

I considered the point about defeats also. Here is the issue I encountered.

The Commonwealth is not just a military but an ideological threat to its neighbors. It represents an entirely different model for Western civilization. So if it were ever to be defeated - really, crushingly defeated and occupied - its enemies would absolutely impose a change of regime upon it, just as the Coalition brought back the Bourbons in real life. And then the Commonwealth as we know it would cease to exist. So France is a bit like Israel: it cannot afford to lose a single war. That's why I ended the Guerin era the way I did: he couldn't win decisively, but he also couldn't lose decisively without it meaning the end of the Commonwealth. Given that, he should just die and leave everybody shell-shocked.

That said, I did build in some defeats for France, though I should have been more explicit about calling them that. This happens once against Spain in the 1600s, once against Spain, Germany, and West Rome in the 1760s, and once against the two Romes in the 1840s. Basically, any time France goes to war and doesn't gain territory, it's because it gets beaten or at least exhausted on the battlefield. It's just that these defeats are not decisive enough to cause the Commonwealth to be occupied and its regime overthrown. For that reason, the French regard them as a draw, but the rest of Europe treats them as victories: these are times when the monarchs beat the republican menace back behind its borders.

Similarly, as for Cyprus, that's what I had in mind when I said "bogged down": the French Army got onto the island, and then couldn't figure out how to get off, and the Commonwealth had to make terms in part in order to rescue its stranded army.

Does that help to address some of your concerns?

And back to what I never managed to answer - I do understand what you are saying. It does make sense, and in the end, it's also up to the players that you are fighting with, so it's not necessarily connected to me. But I do think that some of the victories could at the very least be tempered a little, or balanced. You could perhaps put a bit more emphasis on when your troops were defeated, and you should take into account the idea that the Alps on the Italian side have been fortified by the Verian Wall ever since the Middle Ages, a structure that evolved and was modernized step by step, with fortresses in the mountain passes and everything, so I highly doubt that the French forces would have been able to just push through and overpower the Western Romans every time. Especially since I'm not sure what effect would that have on the WRE and its regional politics.

You'll have to discuss those wars and victories with the players in question and convince them to agree with it.

I have approval from Germany and Spain, who are two of the three major historical French enemies, and you've indicated that you are okay with the role of the ERE in my history, so I'm only waiting on approval from the WRE, who doesn't seem to be around. As I've said, I've made edits to my original draft to clarify the language around French defeats. I've just now added four new references to the Verian Wall, establishing that it stopped France cold on three separate occasions, and that it only successfully penetrated it twice: once during the Forty Years' War, and once under Guerin.

In other words, I understand your concern. I've consistently made edits to address it. But I am not hearing this concern echoed by any of the folks who are most affected; in fact, several have already designed histories in which France as I've written it plays a large role. I realize that I still need the WRE's okay, but so far, this really has not been a huge issue for folks.

[Tracian Empire]

And back to what I never managed to answer - I do understand what you are saying. It does make sense, and in the end, it's also up to the players that you are fighting with, so it's not necessarily connected to me. But I do think that some of the victories could at the very least be tempered a little, or balanced. You could perhaps put a bit more emphasis on when your troops were defeated, and you should take into account the idea that the Alps on the Italian side have been fortified by the Verian Wall ever since the Middle Ages, a structure that evolved and was modernized step by step, with fortresses in the mountain passes and everything, so I highly doubt that the French forces would have been able to just push through and overpower the Western Romans every time. Especially since I'm not sure what effect would that have on the WRE and its regional politics.

You'll have to discuss those wars and victories with the players in question and convince them to agree with it.

I have approval from Germany and Spain, who are two of the three major historical French enemies, and you've indicated that you are okay with the role of the ERE in my history, so I'm only waiting on approval from the WRE, who doesn't seem to be around. As I've said, I've made edits to my original draft to clarify the language around French defeats. I've just now added four new references to the Verian Wall, establishing that it stopped France cold on three separate occasions, and that it only successfully penetrated it twice: once during the Forty Years' War, and once under Guerin.

In other words, I understand your concern. I've consistently made edits to address it. But I am not hearing this concern echoed by any of the folks who are most affected; in fact, several have already designed histories in which France as I've written it plays a large role. I realize that I still need the WRE's okay, but so far, this really has not been a huge issue for folks.

I never said that it would be a huge issue, but it is something that has to be taken into account while reviewing an app. Not that it will block your app from being accepted or anything, but it is something that you will have to take into account when writing your history.

I also realize that it might seem a bit unfair to keep you waiting like this, and I'm sorry for that - the WRE player was gone without a consistent internet connection for a while, and she will try to join this as soon as possible. But history does have to agreed upon by all parties, and so far at the very least I believe that she will disagree with the idea of Guerin forcing the emperor in the West to surrender personally - it is an event that can not be necessarily justified - the WRE can be defeated even without that, and even in the first place it doesn't have to be completely defeated if Guerin just dies anyway. But that personal surrender, while great for Guerin's glory, would be a huge blow to imperial power in the WRE.

And the whole 40 Years War will unfortunately also have to be discussed with the WRE player, to see how we can keep the specifics of the WRE and have the kind of history that you desire.

[Reverend Norv]

I have approval from Germany and Spain, who are two of the three major historical French enemies, and you've indicated that you are okay with the role of the ERE in my history, so I'm only waiting on approval from the WRE, who doesn't seem to be around. As I've said, I've made edits to my original draft to clarify the language around French defeats. I've just now added four new references to the Verian Wall, establishing that it stopped France cold on three separate occasions, and that it only successfully penetrated it twice: once during the Forty Years' War, and once under Guerin.

In other words, I understand your concern. I've consistently made edits to address it. But I am not hearing this concern echoed by any of the folks who are most affected; in fact, several have already designed histories in which France as I've written it plays a large role. I realize that I still need the WRE's okay, but so far, this really has not been a huge issue for folks.

I never said that it would be a huge issue, but it is something that has to be taken into account while reviewing an app. Not that it will block your app from being accepted or anything, but it is something that you will have to take into account when writing your history.

I also realize that it might seem a bit unfair to keep you waiting like this, and I'm sorry for that - the WRE player was gone without a consistent internet connection for a while, and she will try to join this as soon as possible. But history does have to agreed upon by all parties, and so far at the very least I believe that she will disagree with the idea of Guerin forcing the emperor in the West to surrender personally - it is an event that can not be necessarily justified - the WRE can be defeated even without that, and even in the first place it doesn't have to be completely defeated if Guerin just dies anyway. But that personal surrender, while great for Guerin's glory, would be a huge blow to imperial power in the WRE.

And the whole 40 Years War will unfortunately also have to be discussed with the WRE player, to see how we can keep the specifics of the WRE and have the kind of history that you desire.

I understand that. And as I said, I am prepared to wait - within reason - and to make changes - within reason. I am not wedded to the personal surrender of the Western Emperor during the Guerin Era, and would be readily prepared to change it. I am even not wedded to the total defeat of the Western Empire by Guerin, given that he already crushed both Germany and Spain so thoroughly as clearly to make himself a huge threat. And I am prepared to be flexible in finding ways to justify a French war of independence from Rome that would create the kind of society that the Commonwealth became.

In other words, as I said, I am perfectly willing to wait and to make edits. But I am feeling pretty singled-out here, and being entirely honest, I am not best pleased by it. So I will wait, and I will make changes; but I will not wait forever, and I will not change everything. That's what I can offer, and since none of the players for France's neighbors have so far objected to any part of my app, I think it ought to be enough.

[Tracian Empire]

I never said that it would be a huge issue, but it is something that has to be taken into account while reviewing an app. Not that it will block your app from being accepted or anything, but it is something that you will have to take into account when writing your history.

I also realize that it might seem a bit unfair to keep you waiting like this, and I'm sorry for that - the WRE player was gone without a consistent internet connection for a while, and she will try to join this as soon as possible. But history does have to agreed upon by all parties, and so far at the very least I believe that she will disagree with the idea of Guerin forcing the emperor in the West to surrender personally - it is an event that can not be necessarily justified - the WRE can be defeated even without that, and even in the first place it doesn't have to be completely defeated if Guerin just dies anyway. But that personal surrender, while great for Guerin's glory, would be a huge blow to imperial power in the WRE.

And the whole 40 Years War will unfortunately also have to be discussed with the WRE player, to see how we can keep the specifics of the WRE and have the kind of history that you desire.

I understand that. And as I said, I am prepared to wait - within reason - and to make changes - within reason. I am not wedded to the personal surrender of the Western Emperor during the Guerin Era, and would be readily prepared to change it. I am even not wedded to the total defeat of the Western Empire by Guerin, given that he already crushed both Germany and Spain so thoroughly as clearly to make himself a huge threat. And I am prepared to be flexible in finding ways to justify a French war of independence from Rome that would create the kind of society that the Commonwealth became.

In other words, as I said, I am perfectly willing to wait and to make edits. But I am feeling pretty singled-out here, and being entirely honest, I am not best pleased by it. So I will wait, and I will make changes; but I will not wait forever, and I will not change everything. That's what I can offer, and since none of the players for France's neighbors have so far objected to any part of my app, I think it ought to be enough.

And as I have said before, it will not impact whether your app is accepted or not. The review of your app will happen as soon as possible, and history can be edited later if necessary. And you are most certainly not singled-out in any way or form - look at my review of the Spanish app. Exil also knows that his Zentraleuropa history in invading northern Italy, while not yet written due to his own lack of time, will also depend on the WRE.

So while I can understand why you'd perhaps feel like things, I'm simply making sure that Western European history is accepted by everyone, which will hopefully happen soon, and I am in no way only focusing on France - it might appear like that because you have indeed tied a lot of your history to France's enmity towards the WRE.

[Reverend Norv]

I understand that. And as I said, I am prepared to wait - within reason - and to make changes - within reason. I am not wedded to the personal surrender of the Western Emperor during the Guerin Era, and would be readily prepared to change it. I am even not wedded to the total defeat of the Western Empire by Guerin, given that he already crushed both Germany and Spain so thoroughly as clearly to make himself a huge threat. And I am prepared to be flexible in finding ways to justify a French war of independence from Rome that would create the kind of society that the Commonwealth became.

In other words, as I said, I am perfectly willing to wait and to make edits. But I am feeling pretty singled-out here, and being entirely honest, I am not best pleased by it. So I will wait, and I will make changes; but I will not wait forever, and I will not change everything. That's what I can offer, and since none of the players for France's neighbors have so far objected to any part of my app, I think it ought to be enough.

And as I have said before, it will not impact whether your app is accepted or not. The review of your app will happen as soon as possible, and history can be edited later if necessary. And you are most certainly not singled-out in any way or form - look at my review of the Spanish app. Exil also knows that his Zentraleuropa history in invading northern Italy, while not yet written due to his own lack of time, will also depend on the WRE.

So while I can understand why you'd perhaps feel like things, I'm simply making sure that Western European history is accepted by everyone, which will hopefully happen soon, and I am in no way only focusing on France - it might appear like that because you have indeed tied a lot of your history to France's enmity towards the WRE.

Fair enough. Thank you for explaining the process. It does help to clarify the situation to understand that, at this point, this is a European-wide issue related to continuity with the WRE. And as I said, if accepted, I'd be willing to make edits - within reason - to ensure that the shared history is acceptable to everyone. I was just confused as to why my history was being framed as especially problematic when no players in this thread had actually expressed concern about it. This helps to elucidate that.

[Tracian Empire]

And as I have said before, it will not impact whether your app is accepted or not. The review of your app will happen as soon as possible, and history can be edited later if necessary. And you are most certainly not singled-out in any way or form - look at my review of the Spanish app. Exil also knows that his Zentraleuropa history in invading northern Italy, while not yet written due to his own lack of time, will also depend on the WRE.

So while I can understand why you'd perhaps feel like things, I'm simply making sure that Western European history is accepted by everyone, which will hopefully happen soon, and I am in no way only focusing on France - it might appear like that because you have indeed tied a lot of your history to France's enmity towards the WRE.

Fair enough. Thank you for explaining the process. It does help to clarify the situation to understand that, at this point, this is a European-wide issue related to continuity with the WRE. And as I said, if accepted, I'd be willing to make edits - within reason - to ensure that the shared history is acceptable to everyone. I was just confused as to why my history was being framed as especially problematic when no players in this thread had actually expressed concern about it. This helps to elucidate that.

Well, yours is as of right now the one history that deals the most with the WRE besides from mine. I took care of Spain, Zentraleuropa's hasn't been written yet, so it is a Western European wide issue - I don't have anything against your history, quite the contrary actually, I love the concept. I'm just trying to take over the reviewing process and make sure that everything fits in.

[Reverend Norv]

Fair enough. Thank you for explaining the process. It does help to clarify the situation to understand that, at this point, this is a European-wide issue related to continuity with the WRE. And as I said, if accepted, I'd be willing to make edits - within reason - to ensure that the shared history is acceptable to everyone. I was just confused as to why my history was being framed as especially problematic when no players in this thread had actually expressed concern about it. This helps to elucidate that.

Well, yours is as of right now the one history that deals the most with the WRE besides from mine. I took care of Spain, Zentraleuropa's hasn't been written yet, so it is a Western European wide issue - I don't have anything against your history, quite the contrary actually, I love the concept. I'm just trying to take over the reviewing process and make sure that everything fits in.

Makes sense, and while I can't promise that I'll be prepared to change everything, I am entirely willing to regard all the details of France's history with the WRE as open to negotiation. That's completely fair. And I appreciate your work in taking the lead on the reviewing process.

[Tracian Empire]

Well, yours is as of right now the one history that deals the most with the WRE besides from mine. I took care of Spain, Zentraleuropa's hasn't been written yet, so it is a Western European wide issue - I don't have anything against your history, quite the contrary actually, I love the concept. I'm just trying to take over the reviewing process and make sure that everything fits in.

Makes sense, and while I can't promise that I'll be prepared to change everything, I am entirely willing to regard all the details of France's history with the WRE as open to negotiation. That's completely fair. And I appreciate your work in taking the lead on the reviewing process.

You certainly won't have to change everything, we just have to find a compromise that is acceptable to both players. I'm sure that this is something that we can achieve by discussing it. We have to find the exact balance that would allow Kai to keep her concept of the WRE, and to take some of the pressure off the poor Western Roman army, I'm probably going to have had some detached forces into Italy for the past two centuries or so, led by a Domestikos tis Italías.

[Reverend Norv]

Makes sense, and while I can't promise that I'll be prepared to change everything, I am entirely willing to regard all the details of France's history with the WRE as open to negotiation. That's completely fair. And I appreciate your work in taking the lead on the reviewing process.

You certainly won't have to change everything, we just have to find a compromise that is acceptable to both players. I'm sure that this is something that we can achieve by discussing it. We have to find the exact balance that would allow Kai to keep her concept of the WRE, and to take some of the pressure off the poor Western Roman army, I'm probably going to have had some detached forces into Italy for the past two centuries or so, led by a Domestikos tis Italías.

That makes complete sense; having read Kai's app in the last iteration of the RP, I assumed that Eastern troops would have to intervene in most of the Franco-Roman wars. I certainly don't want to place the WRE under so much pressure that it is unable to remain the lovely place of culture and beauty that the prior app describes. That's why I very rarely have France squaring off one-on-one with the Western Empire; the Commonwealth tends to be distracted by at least one other theater of operations. That fact, plus the presence of Eastern troops, should allow Kai to keep the previous concept mostly the same.

[Tracian Empire]

You certainly won't have to change everything, we just have to find a compromise that is acceptable to both players. I'm sure that this is something that we can achieve by discussing it. We have to find the exact balance that would allow Kai to keep her concept of the WRE, and to take some of the pressure off the poor Western Roman army, I'm probably going to have had some detached forces into Italy for the past two centuries or so, led by a Domestikos tis Italías.

That makes complete sense; having read Kai's app in the last iteration of the RP, I assumed that Eastern troops would have to intervene in most of the Franco-Roman wars. I certainly don't want to place the WRE under so much pressure that it is unable to remain the lovely place of culture and beauty that the prior app describes. That's why I very rarely have France squaring off one-on-one with the Western Empire; the Commonwealth tends to be distracted by at least one other theater of operations. That fact, plus the presence of Eastern troops, should allow Kai to keep the previous concept mostly the same.

It should, especially if we also count the Verian Wall - if the WRE manages to focus its forces on defending the Alps, then it could be able to hold its ground until the East arrives. And the presence of the Eastern troops there could play a very nice role in the West-East tensions that Kai and I had planned during the last iterations.

And having to detach troops to the West would be interesting for the East too, since while the Eastern troops would be generally more than a match for the French forces, the distance involved, having to fight on what is practically foreign ground, and the East never being to fully commit to the defense of Italy would have played their role in the defeats suffered by the Romans.