1906: Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC-DEAD]

[Tracian Empire]

I'll see if I can reprise my Spain role for round two.

A lot of spots are still free, but if you want to continue with Spain, sure!

[Tracian Empire]

Alright, I've updated the list and the map.

I'm still not sure when the new thread will be up - might be as early as tomorrow, but it will be up in the next few days.

If you guys know people who might be interested, feel free to invite them!

[Reverend Norv]

Alright, I've updated the list and the map.

I'm still not sure when the new thread will be up - might be as early as tomorrow, but it will be up in the next few days.

If you guys know people who might be interested, feel free to invite them!

Already on it. Exciting, exciting!

[Plzen]

Alright, this is an alpha version of the reservations and the map, which of course comes with some caveats - nothing here is still official, and I do reserve to make changes and decisions if need be.

I’d like to extend my claim over 15 more European map provinces:

Greenland, Iceland, Jan Mayen, and the Faroe Islands - the North Atlantic islands of the Nordic Region. Exilvania and I are agreed on Scandinavian Slesvig, so that adds two more provinces. The Viipuri area / South Karelia for one more - the region was culturally Finnish/Karelian until 1940 IRL. Lastly, if the OP feels it is reasonable, I’d also like Orkney and the Shetland Isles.

I apologise for not having an image to go along with this extension, but I’m on my mobile at the moment - if you want one I’ll get a map up as soon as I have access to a proper image editor.

If the Alternative Divergence tradition of having three centres of modernity is continuing, I imagine colonies in East Asia will be categorically forbidden. That being the case, I don’t particularly want anything outside Europe at the moment... I’ll let all the other European and East Asian colonial powers get their claims in first, and then have a second look and what choice colonies look to be still up for grabs.

[Krugmar]

This is a rough map of the situation in India, as discussed with Norv.

The details are still being hammered out, and will be in the App, but it is essentially an unequal alliance between the Mughals (Green), and the French (Purple).

The French will directly administer the areas in purple, as temporary (meaning subject to renewal) and permanently leased territories and ports. Those in a lighter shade of purple are native states in direct political communication with France, and with no feudal ties to the Mughals. Any foreign diplomacy, even with the Mughals, would be conducted via France.

The areas in green would be directly administered by the Mughal court, though it goes without saying the immense influence of French residents and consuls in said court. The areas in lighter green are the largest and most prominent of the Mughal vassals. They are still a part of the Mughal state, but would operate with a certain amount of leeway, and would have some communication with France that wasn't directed via the Mughal court.

Needless to say the relationship between France, the French administration in India, and the Mughals will be very complex.

[Tracian Empire]

Alright, this is an alpha version of the reservations and the map, which of course comes with some caveats - nothing here is still official, and I do reserve to make changes and decisions if need be.

I’d like to extend my claim over 15 more European map provinces:

Greenland, Iceland, Jan Mayen, and the Faroe Islands - the North Atlantic islands of the Nordic Region. Exilvania and I are agreed on Scandinavian Slesvig, so that adds two more provinces. The Viipuri area / South Karelia for one more - the region was culturally Finnish/Karelian until 1940 IRL. Lastly, if the OP feels it is reasonable, I’d also like Orkney and the Shetland Isles.

I apologise for not having an image to go along with this extension, but I’m on my mobile at the moment - if you want one I’ll get a map up as soon as I have access to a proper image editor.

If the Alternative Divergence tradition of having three centres of modernity is continuing, I imagine colonies in East Asia will be categorically forbidden. That being the case, I don’t particularly want anything outside Europe at the moment... I’ll let all the other European and East Asian colonial powers get their claims in first, and then have a second look and what choice colonies look to be still up for grabs.

Greenland, Iceland, the Faroe and Jan Mayen are more than alright, and I will add Schleswig to Scandinavia too. As for South Karelia, I'm guessing it's a bit complicated - I'd have nothing against giving it to Scandinavia in principle, but since Elerian initially claimed Tsarist Russia as a whole I already gave you Finland, and if Sankt Petersburg is a thing, Karelia would clearly be contested. I'll talk with Elerian about it though.

I'm also alright with you getting those two islands, since the UK should presumably have a big colonial empire, but beware that it might bring you into conflict with an eventual UK.

And yes, Asia should be pretty advanced technologically. It doesn't mean that European colonies there are forbidden, just that they'd be very small.

[Reverend Norv]

I’d like to extend my claim over 15 more European map provinces:

Greenland, Iceland, Jan Mayen, and the Faroe Islands - the North Atlantic islands of the Nordic Region. Exilvania and I are agreed on Scandinavian Slesvig, so that adds two more provinces. The Viipuri area / South Karelia for one more - the region was culturally Finnish/Karelian until 1940 IRL. Lastly, if the OP feels it is reasonable, I’d also like Orkney and the Shetland Isles.

I apologise for not having an image to go along with this extension, but I’m on my mobile at the moment - if you want one I’ll get a map up as soon as I have access to a proper image editor.

If the Alternative Divergence tradition of having three centres of modernity is continuing, I imagine colonies in East Asia will be categorically forbidden. That being the case, I don’t particularly want anything outside Europe at the moment... I’ll let all the other European and East Asian colonial powers get their claims in first, and then have a second look and what choice colonies look to be still up for grabs.

Greenland, Iceland, the Faroe and Jan Mayen are more than alright, and I will add Schleswig to Scandinavia too. As for South Karelia, I'm guessing it's a bit complicated - I'd have nothing against giving it to Scandinavia in principle, but since Elerian initially claimed Tsarist Russia as a whole I already gave you Finland, and if Sankt Petersburg is a thing, Karelia would clearly be contested. I'll talk with Elerian about it though.

I'm also alright with you getting those two islands, since the UK should presumably have a big colonial empire, but beware that it might bring you into conflict with an eventual UK.

And yes, Asia should be pretty advanced technologically. It doesn't mean that European colonies there are forbidden, just that they'd be very small.

It's kind of funny - given the RL UK's role in the era, and the fact that this is an English-speaking site - that the UK is one of the last European majors to be claimed. The same thing happened last time too. I wonder why?

[Tracian Empire]

This is a rough map of the situation in India, as discussed with Norv.

The details are still being hammered out, and will be in the App, but it is essentially an unequal alliance between the Mughals (Green), and the French (Purple).

The French will directly administer the areas in purple, as temporary (meaning subject to renewal) and permanently leased territories and ports. Those in a lighter shade of purple are native states in direct political communication with France, and with no feudal ties to the Mughals. Any foreign diplomacy, even with the Mughals, would be conducted via France.

The areas in green would be directly administered by the Mughal court, though it goes without saying the immense influence of French residents and consuls in said court. The areas in lighter green are the largest and most prominent of the Mughal vassals. They are still a part of the Mughal state, but would operate with a certain amount of leeway, and would have some communication with France that wasn't directed via the Mughal court.

Needless to say the relationship between France, the French administration in India, and the Mughals will be very complex.

That purple territory in Burma controlled by the French seems a bit weird to me, but my knowledge of the Indian subcontinent is very limited to begin with, so I'll trust your ideas here xD

And yeah, it seems acceptable. We'll see if we can prop up another European colonial power as France's rival so that anti-french elements in India will have something to turn to, but the claims are accepted here - I still have to check with someone else first but it shouldn't be an issue.

[Tracian Empire]

Greenland, Iceland, the Faroe and Jan Mayen are more than alright, and I will add Schleswig to Scandinavia too. As for South Karelia, I'm guessing it's a bit complicated - I'd have nothing against giving it to Scandinavia in principle, but since Elerian initially claimed Tsarist Russia as a whole I already gave you Finland, and if Sankt Petersburg is a thing, Karelia would clearly be contested. I'll talk with Elerian about it though.

I'm also alright with you getting those two islands, since the UK should presumably have a big colonial empire, but beware that it might bring you into conflict with an eventual UK.

And yes, Asia should be pretty advanced technologically. It doesn't mean that European colonies there are forbidden, just that they'd be very small.

It's kind of funny - given the RL UK's role in the era, and the fact that this is an English-speaking site - that the UK is one of the last European majors to be claimed. The same thing happened last time too. I wonder why?

I'm really not sure to be honest. Ever since AltDiv's first and most important Britain player left after like the third or the fourth iteration, we never had luck in terms of British players. Sometimes there were mistakes on our side - there were a lot of Gaelic nations that made the British isles a lot less attractive, but we took particular care over the last few iterations to leave the area open, and yet no luck.

[Reverend Norv]

This is a rough map of the situation in India, as discussed with Norv.

The details are still being hammered out, and will be in the App, but it is essentially an unequal alliance between the Mughals (Green), and the French (Purple).

The French will directly administer the areas in purple, as temporary (meaning subject to renewal) and permanently leased territories and ports. Those in a lighter shade of purple are native states in direct political communication with France, and with no feudal ties to the Mughals. Any foreign diplomacy, even with the Mughals, would be conducted via France.

The areas in green would be directly administered by the Mughal court, though it goes without saying the immense influence of French residents and consuls in said court. The areas in lighter green are the largest and most prominent of the Mughal vassals. They are still a part of the Mughal state, but would operate with a certain amount of leeway, and would have some communication with France that wasn't directed via the Mughal court.

Needless to say the relationship between France, the French administration in India, and the Mughals will be very complex.

That purple territory in Burma controlled by the French seems a bit weird to me, but my knowledge of the Indian subcontinent is very limited to begin with, so I'll trust your ideas here xD

And yeah, it seems acceptable. We'll see if we can prop up another European colonial power as France's rival so that anti-french elements in India will have something to turn to, but the claims are accepted here - I still have to check with someone else first but it shouldn't be an issue.

We assume that Southeast Asia will end up being controlled by some scary East Asian or rival European power, so those territories were ceded by the Mughal Empire as a military frontier, so that French Army regulars would be the first line of defense in any conflict. And I approve the idea of a European rival, or a scary Asian power on India's eastern frontier, or both! Where would be the fun otherwise?

[Tracian Empire]

That purple territory in Burma controlled by the French seems a bit weird to me, but my knowledge of the Indian subcontinent is very limited to begin with, so I'll trust your ideas here xD

And yeah, it seems acceptable. We'll see if we can prop up another European colonial power as France's rival so that anti-french elements in India will have something to turn to, but the claims are accepted here - I still have to check with someone else first but it shouldn't be an issue.

We assume that Southeast Asia will end up being controlled by some scary East Asian or rival European power, so those territories were ceded by the Mughal Empire as a military frontier, so that French Army regulars would be the first line of defense in any conflict. And I approve the idea of a European rival, or a scary Asian power on India's eastern frontier, or both! Where would be the fun otherwise?

That makes sense, yeah xD

And I am hoping that we will get some Asian powers, the Asian modernisation and parity with the Europeans was always an important part of AltDiv

[Plzen]

Hmmmm...on one condition. You figure out the exact population numbers for Schleswig.

The Imperial Government may have no aspirations for Schleswig as of the moment. I make no promises for what the Dukes of Pommerania and Mecklenburg-Holstein may do in a perceived moment of weakness.

Sounds good enough to me.

I’m very interested in several aspects of German Imperial policy... the Empire’s relationship with France and especially with Russia, its trade policy, any further colonial ambitions it might have. I’m generally inclined in this iteration of the RP to align myself as a pro-German power, but that would obviously depend on Germany having at least somewhat acceptable answers to these questions.

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Karelia would clearly be contested. I'll talk with Elerian about it though.

I’m sure you understand this already, but just in case it wasn’t clear - I’m not asking for the entirety of Karelia, but just that part of it that was within Finnish borders during the Grand Duchy of Finland era and between 1921 and 1940.

Please do keep me posted on your discussions with Elerian on the matter.

I'm also alright with you getting those two islands, since the UK should presumably have a big colonial empire, but beware that it might bring you into conflict with an eventual UK.

Noted, thank you.

And yes, Asia should be pretty advanced technologically. It doesn't mean that European colonies there are forbidden, just that they'd be very small.

Well, the Shanghai Concession looks very attractive to me, and would be the colonial outpost I want more than any other. I just feel awkward about asking for that because it would really be right in the middle of all the most technologically sophisticated East Asian countries...

If I also remember the last iterations of this correctly, Korea tended to have a much more outwards-looking attitude than China. If Shanghai isn’t on the table, perhaps some kind of agreement can be reached there - extraterritoriality and commercial rights for Scandinavia in Incheon and Kaesong in exchange for extraterritoriality and commercial rights for Koreans in Malmö and Bergen.

[Tracian Empire]

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Karelia would clearly be contested. I'll talk with Elerian about it though.

I’m sure you understand this already, but just in case it wasn’t clear - I’m not asking for the entirety of Karelia, but just that part of it that was within Finnish borders during the Grand Duchy of Finland era and between 1921 and 1940.

Please do keep me posted on your discussions with Elerian on the matter.

I'm also alright with you getting those two islands, since the UK should presumably have a big colonial empire, but beware that it might bring you into conflict with an eventual UK.

Noted, thank you.

And yes, Asia should be pretty advanced technologically. It doesn't mean that European colonies there are forbidden, just that they'd be very small.

Well, the Shanghai Concession looks very attractive to me, and would be the colonial outpost I want more than any other. I just feel awkward about asking for that because it would really be right in the middle of all the most technologically sophisticated East Asian countries...

If I also remember the last iterations of this correctly, Korea tended to have a much more outwards-looking attitude than China. If Shanghai isn’t on the table, perhaps some kind of agreement can be reached there - extraterritoriality and commercial rights for Scandinavia in Incheon and Kaesong in exchange for extraterritoriality and commercial rights for Koreans in Malmö and Bergen.

Yeah, I know, it's just that like I said - I've already moved the border to your advantage, and I gave it to Elerian in the first instance of the map. I have to talk with him first about it first, hopefully we will find a solution, if not, Scandinavia will be compensated in the colonial area.

And yeah, a concession is unlikely, seeing as the Asian nations would be more than able to stand up to Europeans. Agreements are a lot more likely, and Korea was indeed a bit more outwards-looking, but we have to see whether Oscal returns for this role-play or not.

[Ichoria]

Reservation

Nation Name: Lusitanian Federation
Territory: https://i.imgur.com/oOGsOOp.png (in navy blue) - Brazil, Continental Portugal, the Azores, Madeira, the Biafran Islands (Ano Bom, São Tomé, Príncipe and Fernando Pó), Fernando de Noronha, Santa Helena, Ilha da Ascensão, Tristão da Cunha, and Zambezia (OTL Pink Map Portuguese claims in Africa)
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

[New Educandi]

Reservation

Nation Name: the Kingdom of Hawai’i
Territory: Hawaiian Islands
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

[Oscalantine]

Been awhile... I am back but only as a participant this time around. Hoping to get my old territories back XDD

Reservation

Nation Name: Most Serene Imperial States of Korea (대한제국)
Territory: [Previous Territory in Cyan] + portions of Manchuria
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

I'll get a more specific application set up once I am at home from work. At this point I just want to reserve my old map claims so it doesn't overlap with others.

[Kazarogkai]

Well, it took more than half a year, but this is going to finally get yet another reboot™

I'm not fully sure about the era yet - it will probably like the other iterations before it somewhere in between 1848 and 1906, but it will happen, most likely towards the end of the week depending on interest.

Were back on?yay. I'm thinking something along the lines of a failing Gunpowder Empire residing in the east coast of africa, weakened by internal problems and facing the prospect of powerful foreign(European empires) encroaching on their territory. A sorta decaying Rome of the South. Could be fun, will definitvely lead to more interaction compared to my former Internationally isolated mad dog of the west.

Going on from that might I put forward a proposal for a potentially earlier period me thinking sometime around the Revolutionary/Napoleonic period could be pretty fun. Something like 1780-1820 era give or take. Revolutions sweeping the land upending the age old stability of ancient states now facing off against revolutionary hordes screaming Liberty and Equality in contrast to Order and Authority. Could be interesting.

[Kazarogkai]

Reservation

Nation Name: Lusitanian Federation
Territory: https://i.imgur.com/oOGsOOp.png (in navy blue) - Brazil, Continental Portugal, the Azores, Madeira, the Biafran Islands (Ano Bom, São Tomé, Príncipe and Fernando Pó), Fernando de Noronha, Santa Helena, Ilha da Ascensão, Tristão da Cunha, and Zambezia (OTL Pink Map Portuguese claims in Africa)
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

God dammit I was going for Mozambique. and Tanzania... and Somalia.... and Eritrea possibly for good measure. My goal was the creation of a sorta Southern Rome of sorts to counter balance and potentially oppose European colonial power in the region.

[Kazarogkai]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/F1T4zwDoSo9pxZXSA

This is basically what I was more or less going for.

Brugendy/Dark Red represent the core territories, constituting their ethnic homeland. Areas that they would never give away in a treaty outside of full annexations and the like.

Hot Pink Direct Imperial possessions in which they exert well direct control

Pepto Bismo Pink areas in which they display a degree of influence ranging from full on hegemonic formal tributary state relationships all the way to regions they simply occasionally engage in raids for loot. The Squares of the same color represent regions in which other nations have control, whether formal or not, but from which they still in some ways continue to levy the aforementioned influence within. These will typically be the focal points of border skirmishes and claims and regions from which aggressive expansion will likely occur on their part in order to spread their power.

Ill speak to and try to come to an agreement with the new Portugal character.

[Tracian Empire]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/F1T4zwDoSo9pxZXSA

This is basically what I was more or less going for.

Brugendy/Dark Red represent the core territories, constituting their ethnic homeland. Areas that they would never give away in a treaty outside of full annexations and the like.

Hot Pink Direct Imperial possessions in which they exert well direct control

Pepto Bismo Pink areas in which they display a degree of influence ranging from full on hegemonic formal tributary state relationships all the way to regions they simply occasionally engage in raids for loot. The Squares of the same color represent regions in which other nations have control, whether formal or not, but from which they still in some ways continue to levy the aforementioned influence within. These will typically be the focal points of border skirmishes and claims and regions from which aggressive expansion will likely occur on their part in order to spread their power.

Ill speak to and try to come to an agreement with the new Portugal character.

Well, first of all you're still using the old map of the roleplay which is an understandable confusion - hopefully moving to a new thread soon would clear any big misunderstandings, but there is no Ethiopia, and Arabia and Persia are free. I do think that playing a nation with the core in either Arabia or Persia would be a bit more easy to explain, especially since you taking the south of Arabia guarantees that the remaining parts of Arabian coastline wouldn't be taken by anyone else. I'm not sure what your concept is though, ethnically, religiously, and culturally I mean.

Besides from that, Lustianian claims to Africa seem to be pretty fair, and Ichoria reserved them before you, so they are his. The Scramble for Africa would be very close to being finished by now, so your nation would have already come into direct conflict with the Europeans a few times at least. If Ichoria somehow agrees to it you could have them, I do realize that having foreign colonial claims on the other side of your heartland isn't nice, but OOCly he claimed them first.

For the light pink areas I'm also going to say no in the current format - because you should try to come up with a proper way to show only the territories that you'd want as your tributaries for me to properly assess them. Africa is a bit of a complicated situation - all of it should be occupied, and I am going to try to favor native state claims whenever possible, but your claims seem to be very colonial in nature, and you would have been competing with the Europeans.

Moving on to the pink squares I am slightly confused - you could certainly be leading border skirmishes, but the Romans should have a pretty good control of their territory there, so you would poking and asking for retaliation xD

I do like the concept of a failing gunpowder empire in the area though, it's interesting!

[Plzen]

I made myself a tentative map of colonial claims. The map includes South Karelia (pending discussions with the OP and Russia). I used the map I used in the last iteration of Alternative Divergence, removed all outposts in India and some in Africa, reduced Java to just Batavia, and instead took some islands in the Carribean.

Obviously, nothing final; this is a first draft of a first draft.

I also changed the colour scheme so that it's easier to spot small island claims.

EDIT: glow effect unintentional; I'm still learning the image editing program I used to make this, and any final map I submit with my application will be much cleaner.

[Oscalantine]

I made myself a tentative map of colonial claims. The map includes South Karelia (pending discussions with the OP and Russia). I used the map I used in the last iteration of Alternative Divergence, removed all outposts in India and some in Africa, reduced Java to just Batavia, and instead took some islands in the Carribean.

I also changed the colour scheme so that it's easier to spot small island claims.

EDIT: glow effect unintentional; I'm still learning the image editing program I used to make this, and any final map I submit with my application will be much cleaner.

I foresee a lot of conflict between us, both OOC and IC. Those port cities in Borneo and Malay Peninsula are all part of my nation's empire. Those are quite an important ports as well, as controlling those few areas would grant essentially unalienable passage through the water of Southeast Asia, which is against Korean Empire's desires to monopolize all flow of trade from West to East. I am open to deliberations, but that's too many to simply give away without staging some sort of scenario where Korea lost to European power... which to this extent would be equivalent to how Qing was after the Opium Wars, which is not something that I want to RP.

[Tracian Empire]

I made myself a tentative map of colonial claims. The map includes South Karelia (pending discussions with the OP and Russia). I used the map I used in the last iteration of Alternative Divergence, removed all outposts in India and some in Africa, reduced Java to just Batavia, and instead took some islands in the Carribean.

I also changed the colour scheme so that it's easier to spot small island claims.

EDIT: glow effect unintentional; I'm still learning the image editing program I used to make this, and any final map I submit with my application will be much cleaner.

Assuming that he does continue as Russia, Elerian would be willing to give South Karelia to you, but Russia would likely be not happy for the same strategic reasons real life Russia always wanted Karelia.

As for your colonial claims - the areas in Indonesia would be clashing with Oscal's claims - if he's willing to concede them sure, if not they'd be his - no issues with New Zealand and that piece of Australia though.

And as for the territory in Eastern Africa, it looks alright, but I'll be waiting to see what concept Kazarogkai is actually coming up with before deciding.

[Plzen]

-snip-

-snip-

I really have no intention of holding vast colonial territories; it doesn't square with the way I usually tend to roleplay Scandinavia. Those colonial holdings were chosen to give me the maximum possible global influence with the minimum possible square kilometrage, which meant naval bases at strategic positions, key trade centres, maritime chokepoints...

That being said, everything is tentative. I certainly have no strong desire to hold on to those Southeast Asian ports and Zanzibar - if someone else wants them, they're welcome to it. I might end up scrapping the whole global empire idea altogether and just hold on to Greenland and the Canadian Maritimes, otherwise focusing on European affairs.

[Tracian Empire]

-snip-

-snip-

I really have no intention of holding vast colonial territories; it doesn't square with the way I usually tend to roleplay Scandinavia. Those colonial holdings were chosen to give me the maximum possible global influence with the minimum possible square kilometrage, which meant naval bases at strategic positions, key trade centres, maritime chokepoints...

That being said, everything is tentative. I certainly have no strong desire to hold on to those Southeast Asian ports and Zanzibar - if someone else wants them, they're welcome to it. I might end up scrapping the whole global empire idea altogether and just hold on to Greenland and the Canadian Maritimes, otherwise focusing on European affairs.

You having a global maritime empire isn't the issue, the issue is the placement of said holdings - like Oscal said, those ports would be very important for Korea, and the Koreans would have been more than able to keep them. If you have any other Asian claims perhaps we could accommodate them before getting any new Asian players.

And as for Zanzibar, I see no issues with it, but if Kazarogkai apps for a nation with the core in Madagascar, having yet another European colony in the nearby east African coast would put his concept in an even more delicate position - so I have to see what his concept actually is before making a decision.