1906: Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC-DEAD]

[Tracian Empire]

Reservation

Nation Name: Deutsches Fürstentum Seelandia/ German Principality of Zealandia
Territory: New Zealand
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

New Zealand is indeed free, but you'll have to speak with Remnants of Exilvania, the German/Central European player about the possibility of a German colony there. So far Germany has no colonies at all and the idea of a German colony would be a bit difficult to achieve.

[Tracian Empire]

Interestingly, France might try to present itself as the protector of the Islamic world - as Napoleon briefly attempted historically - since it sees the Reformed Faith and Islam as facing a common enemy in Roman/Chalcedonian Caeseropapist persecution. As far back as the Reformation, many Protestant thinkers found Islam's emphasis on predestination, sobriety, and iconoclasm appealing.

That would be quite possible. The Eastern Romans have been embroiled in a constant conflict with Muslims ever since the Arabs first expanded, until the eventual defeat of the last Caliphate and the liberation of Egypt. That would have happened in around 1600, so it would be possible for the Reformed French to have tried to help them. And they could try to be doing that even now, but Islam as a whole is in a pretty bad position, in Egypt and the Levant at least Islam is banned, there are no official mosques, the native Muslims have been long pushed out of the urban centers are in decline.

I'm not sure about exact numbers or anything, other than they would be a minority, and even the history of Islam might suffer modifications - it's up to the Spanish player whether the Arabs ever reached Spain, and while I know that a series of Caliphates centered on Egypt survived until in 1600, depending on the Babylonian history I believe that Islam lost Mecca and Medina relatively early in their history.

[Finland SSR]

Interestingly, France might try to present itself as the protector of the Islamic world - as Napoleon briefly attempted historically - since it sees the Reformed Faith and Islam as facing a common enemy in Roman/Chalcedonian Caeseropapist persecution. As far back as the Reformation, many Protestant thinkers found Islam's emphasis on predestination, sobriety, and iconoclasm appealing.

That would be quite possible. The Eastern Romans have been embroiled in a constant conflict with Muslims ever since the Arabs first expanded, until the eventual defeat of the last Caliphate and the liberation of Egypt. That would have happened in around 1600, so it would be possible for the Reformed French to have tried to help them. And they could try to be doing that even now, but Islam as a whole is in a pretty bad position, in Egypt and the Levant at least Islam is banned, there are no official mosques, the native Muslims have been long pushed out of the urban centers are in decline.

I'm not sure about exact numbers or anything, other than they would be a minority, and even the history of Islam might suffer modifications - it's up to the Spanish player whether the Arabs ever reached Spain, and while I know that a series of Caliphates centered on Egypt survived until in 1600, depending on the Babylonian history I believe that Islam lost Mecca and Medina relatively early in their history.

I believe my history states that Spain still went through a Reconquista, so yes, they still reached Spain before eventually getting pushed out.

[Tracian Empire]

That would be quite possible. The Eastern Romans have been embroiled in a constant conflict with Muslims ever since the Arabs first expanded, until the eventual defeat of the last Caliphate and the liberation of Egypt. That would have happened in around 1600, so it would be possible for the Reformed French to have tried to help them. And they could try to be doing that even now, but Islam as a whole is in a pretty bad position, in Egypt and the Levant at least Islam is banned, there are no official mosques, the native Muslims have been long pushed out of the urban centers are in decline.

I'm not sure about exact numbers or anything, other than they would be a minority, and even the history of Islam might suffer modifications - it's up to the Spanish player whether the Arabs ever reached Spain, and while I know that a series of Caliphates centered on Egypt survived until in 1600, depending on the Babylonian history I believe that Islam lost Mecca and Medina relatively early in their history.

I believe my history states that Spain still went through a Reconquista, so yes, they still reached Spain before eventually getting pushed out.

In that case they either initially pushed through Morocco before the Orthodox Berbers reconquered those territories, or they just used their navy and jumped into Spain the same way they jumped onto Sicily historically.

[Pasong Tirad]

Over a quarter of the Ethiopian population is Muslim - mostly Somali and Oromo. Islam, while relegated to the status of a minority religion, is still very much alive in the Horn of Africa, and would be under the protection of the Empress.

[Zepplien]

I am just going to post here that I spoke to the Dutch player about the Megacompany split, and we agreed to have it break away in a Dutch Civil War. Turns out having your headquarters possibly destroyed in civil unrest is very bad for business, therefore you should relocate yourself and your main shareholders to directly corporate controlled lands. While you are at it, might as well bring your cash reserves, oh and your fleet, yeah fleets are nice.

Ah things are nice down in Africa, why are we obeying Dutch law again? Lets just not, all in favor? All opposed? Motion carries!

[Tracian Empire]

Over a quarter of the Ethiopian population is Muslim - mostly Somali and Oromo. Islam, while relegated to the status of a minority religion, is still very much alive in the Horn of Africa, and would be under the protection of the Empress.

That would certainly make sense, as the Horn of Africa would have been bordering Islamic states until a century or two ago. The Romans probably won't be fans of such policies that would protect Muslims, but they wouldn't intervene in Ethiopia's affairs. You would probably be getting a small influx of Muslim refugees from the three African Exarchates though.

I'm not sure how Islam would deal with its loss of Mecca and Medina, they're clearly under Babylonian control but I'm not sure if they still exist or if the Babylonians destroyed them. As for Jerusalem, or better said Aelia Capitolina, the Romans destroyed all mosques there after they liberated the city, including the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

[Tracian Empire]

I am just going to post here that I spoke to the Dutch player about the Megacompany split, and we agreed to have it break away in a Dutch Civil War. Turns out having your headquarters possibly destroyed in civil unrest is very bad for business, therefore you should relocate yourself and your main shareholders to directly corporate controlled lands. While you are at it, might as well bring your cash reserves, oh and your fleet, yeah fleets are nice.

Ah things are nice down in Africa, why are we obeying Dutch law again? Lets just not, all in favor? All opposed? Motion carries!

If the Dutch player has accepted your points, then you can consider your reservation accepted - but Oscal will have to make the final decision regarding that, due to your concept as a whole.

[Finland SSR]

+ Islam basically don't exist and Christianity is the only Abrahamic religion left.

Nobody has destroyed Judaism though.

[Tracian Empire]

Full Nation Name : The Dutch Republic

There is not that much I can yet review since it seems that you're reworking it. So what follows here are mostly just thoughts:

• Maybe you could diversify the government policies a bit? It's clear that the Netherlands would be imperialistic in Africa and in the colonies, but what would its stance be, bordering France and the Central European Empire which have gone to war several times in the last century? Neutrality? Because if you are neutral, as the Netherlands were in European affairs in this period IRL, that would go there.
• I am still a bit confused about the government and I will assume that it is still a work in progress. It is a bit weird to see a nation with a PM as head of state and a deputy PM as head of government, but well, to each its own - if you want more flavor you could however actually research the Dutch Republic a bit and use its system as a basis.
  The system described there would be pretty limited, you have 32 people in your Parliament? And are you a direct democracy? If the people vote on each law proposal there would be chaos. Switzerland, which does employ a limited system of direct democracy has the option for people to call for such referendums, but it has a very organized system and the Federal Assembly can pass its own laws.
• If you are Catholic just keep in mind that the Roman Catholic Church is an autocephalous church inside of the Greater Chalcedonian Church, in full communion with the Eastern Orthodox Churches. Catholicism is basically the same as far as dogma and rite go, but from an administrative perspective the Great Schism was mended. So just mention that you are Catholic in the Greater Chalcedonian Church.
• What do you mean by former colonial possessions in South Africa and Indonesia? OOCly, South Africa is clearly French, and Indonesia is clearly Korean/Breton, so whether from a historical perspective in the IC, some territories there belonged to the Netherlands is up to the players that currently own them. If you want to make it so that the Netherlands lost those territories you'll have to discuss that with the players in question.
• And as for the history, my only advice is to read the apps of France and Zentraleuropa and discuss history with those players. Massive changes are certainly going to happen, and as Finland SSR has said the Netherlands were never a Spanish province, so you'll probably have to work out a new way for the United Provinces to have been well, united in their fight for independence.

[Tracian Empire]

+ Islam basically don't exist and Christianity is the only Abrahamic religion left.

Nobody has destroyed Judaism though.

The East Romans tolerate the Jews, even if they wouldn't qualify for citizenship, there could be a small minority of them in the Levant. But the ERE would still maintain Hadrian's edict which forbids Jews from entering Aelia Capitolina with the exception of a single holiday.

[Pasong Tirad]

Nobody has destroyed Judaism though.

The East Romans tolerate the Jews, even if they wouldn't qualify for citizenship, there could be a small minority of them in the Levant. But the ERE would still maintain Hadrian's edict which forbids Jews from entering Aelia Capitolina with the exception of a single holiday.

You have a few extra tens of thousands of Jews from Northern Ethiopia. The area around Lake Tana is the historical homeland of the Beta Israeli. Most of them would have migrated southwards to Ethiopian lands after the Roman annexation due to the more tolerant society in Ethiopia, but no doubt several thousands or tens of thousands refused to uproot themselves.

[Tracian Empire]

The East Romans tolerate the Jews, even if they wouldn't qualify for citizenship, there could be a small minority of them in the Levant. But the ERE would still maintain Hadrian's edict which forbids Jews from entering Aelia Capitolina with the exception of a single holiday.

You have a few extra tens of thousands of Jews from Northern Ethiopia. The area around Lake Tana is the historical homeland of the Beta Israeli. Most of them would have migrated southwards to Ethiopian lands after the Roman annexation due to the more tolerant society in Ethiopia, but no doubt several thousands or tens of thousands refused to uproot themselves.

Well, they would be tolerated there too. The imperial government never applied the same kind of pressure against Jews that it did against Muslims and Christian heresies, so the same would happen there. That part of Northern Ethiopia is part of an Exarchate, so the army would be running around more than in normal provinces, but those Jews could overall live pretty nicely - even if of course, as always, the Romans try to push the benefits of adopting Orthodox Christianity and becoming a Roman citizen.

And like I said, the new Basileus is not completely opposed to the idea of returning those territories to Ethiopia, but we'll see what happens ICly.

[Remnants of Exilvania]

Full Nation Name : The Dutch Republic

• And as for the history, my only advice is to read the apps of France and Zentraleuropa and discuss history with those players. Massive changes are certainly going to happen, and as Finland SSR has said the Netherlands were never a Spanish province, so you'll probably have to work out a new way for the United Provinces to have been well, united in their fight for independence.

He's mine to battle. And mine to Anschluss once more when the time comes eventually.

Or it happens the other way around which seems to be the most likely option

Map and list updated. We will proceed to take care of inactive reservations tomorrow. As always, not having the time to finish/working on an app is an acceptable excuse, but we have to know about it. People who don't say anything about their inactivity will be removed.

We're discussing the idea of IC events, but until then it would be nice of those accepted would start posting in the IC, me included, as soon as I properly finish my app xD

Intending to finish this weekend.

My guys are rocking with Lebel Rifles, considering my closest neighbors seemed to be armed with single-shots for the most part perhaps a little bit of burying the hatchet could be done. By that I mean said hatchet buried into the skull of the the nearest monarchy eh, Ill give you some better weapons in exchange?

bruh Lebel gang represent brother

*coughs*
Ahem, I assume you're talking about the Swabian Leibele rifle?

Yeah, I and France traded. Schmidt-Rubin for Lebel.

[Finland SSR]

Nobody has destroyed Judaism though.

The East Romans tolerate the Jews, even if they wouldn't qualify for citizenship, there could be a small minority of them in the Levant. But the ERE would still maintain Hadrian's edict which forbids Jews from entering Aelia Capitolina with the exception of a single holiday.

Spain has little to any Jews within their territory. The Alhambra Decree of 1492 still happened, but the OTL slow return of Sephardic Jews to Spain never happened, as in the 19th century, when this return took place in OTL, Spain was a Carlist kingdom and thus most certainly forbade or severely hindered Jewish immigration. The Integrists were anti-Semitic as well, so they didn't change anything in that regard.

[Tracian Empire]

The East Romans tolerate the Jews, even if they wouldn't qualify for citizenship, there could be a small minority of them in the Levant. But the ERE would still maintain Hadrian's edict which forbids Jews from entering Aelia Capitolina with the exception of a single holiday.

Spain has little to any Jews within their territory. The Alhambra Decree of 1492 still happened, but the OTL slow return of Sephardic Jews to Spain never happened, as in the 19th century, when this return took place in OTL, Spain was a Carlist kingdom and thus most certainly forbade or severely hindered Jewish immigration. The Integrists were anti-Semitic as well, so they didn't change anything in that regard.

That's why I'm thinking that Palestine might slowly experience Jewish immigration. There might certainly be countries that favor Jews more, but this vague Roman tolerance could encourage it. They are banned from Aelia Capitolina yeah, but they can enter the city once per year for one of their holidays, which would at least attract temporary visitors.

[Finland SSR]

Spain has little to any Jews within their territory. The Alhambra Decree of 1492 still happened, but the OTL slow return of Sephardic Jews to Spain never happened, as in the 19th century, when this return took place in OTL, Spain was a Carlist kingdom and thus most certainly forbade or severely hindered Jewish immigration. The Integrists were anti-Semitic as well, so they didn't change anything in that regard.

That's why I'm thinking that Palestine might slowly experience Jewish immigration. There might certainly be countries that favor Jews more, but this vague Roman tolerance could encourage it. They are banned from Aelia Capitolina yeah, but they can enter the city once per year for one of their holidays, which would at least attract temporary visitors.

If something similar to Zionism still arose in this timeline, then yeah, I could certainly see it, much like there were Aliyahs to the Ottoman Empire since the 1880s. Really depends on what the situation in Poland-Lithuania and Rus' is, most of the initial immigrants to Palestine came from Jews fleeing pogroms in Eastern Europe which might be prevented in OTL.

[Oldeaweth]

Reservation

Nation Name: Deutsches Fürstentum Seelandia/ German Principality of Zealandia
Territory: New Zealand
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

New Zealand is indeed free, but you'll have to speak with Remnants of Exilvania, the German/Central European player about the possibility of a German colony there. So far Germany has no colonies at all and the idea of a German colony would be a bit difficult to achieve.

I was thinking about it in more of a Liberia or Belgian Congo sort of situation. An independent party rather than an official colonization effort. I will ask the Central European player before I continue then.

[The Traansval]

That would be quite possible. The Eastern Romans have been embroiled in a constant conflict with Muslims ever since the Arabs first expanded, until the eventual defeat of the last Caliphate and the liberation of Egypt. That would have happened in around 1600, so it would be possible for the Reformed French to have tried to help them. And they could try to be doing that even now, but Islam as a whole is in a pretty bad position, in Egypt and the Levant at least Islam is banned, there are no official mosques, the native Muslims have been long pushed out of the urban centers are in decline.

I'm not sure about exact numbers or anything, other than they would be a minority, and even the history of Islam might suffer modifications - it's up to the Spanish player whether the Arabs ever reached Spain, and while I know that a series of Caliphates centered on Egypt survived until in 1600, depending on the Babylonian history I believe that Islam lost Mecca and Medina relatively early in their history.

I believe my history states that Spain still went through a Reconquista, so yes, they still reached Spain before eventually getting pushed out.

Would it be alright if you did your Reconquista against a middle ages version of my Orthodox Berbers in Morocco? I was planning to write in a "Golden Age" for Moroccos history, and it would involve expansion, so It could be conceivable that the Berbers expanded into southern Spain instead of the Muslim arabs.

[Finland SSR]

I believe my history states that Spain still went through a Reconquista, so yes, they still reached Spain before eventually getting pushed out.

Would it be alright if you did your Reconquista against a middle ages version of my Orthodox Berbers in Morocco? I was planning to write in a "Golden Age" for Moroccos history, and it would involve expansion, so It could be conceivable that the Berbers expanded into southern Spain instead of the Muslim arabs.

Maybe.

[The Felan Federation]

Over a quarter of the Ethiopian population is Muslim - mostly Somali and Oromo. Islam, while relegated to the status of a minority religion, is still very much alive in the Horn of Africa, and would be under the protection of the Empress.

That would certainly make sense, as the Horn of Africa would have been bordering Islamic states until a century or two ago. The Romans probably won't be fans of such policies that would protect Muslims, but they wouldn't intervene in Ethiopia's affairs. You would probably be getting a small influx of Muslim refugees from the three African Exarchates though.

I'm not sure how Islam would deal with its loss of Mecca and Medina, they're clearly under Babylonian control but I'm not sure if they still exist or if the Babylonians destroyed them. As for Jerusalem, or better said Aelia Capitolina, the Romans destroyed all mosques there after they liberated the city, including the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

Just checked history. Turns out, that Gustavia (Ghana + Togo) or mostly Ghana has both Christians and Muslims - both which arrived at the place around the fifteenth century. So in a way I might also have Muslims.

[SCP Institution]

This maybe a dumb question, but if I understand correctly dreadnought is a type of battleship similar to the Japanese Mikasa or German Nassau. What is the point to build such gigantic behemoth ?

Small and fast ships with torpedos are better !

[Remnants of Exilvania]

This maybe a dumb question, but if I understand correctly dreadnought is a type of battleship similar to the Japanese Mikasa or German Nassau. What is the point to build such gigantic behemoth ?

Small and fast ships with torpedos are better !

Small and fast ships have a tendency to not traverse the open seas so well, have less reach and tend to get lit up on said open seas by big ships with big guns and big reach.

[Tracian Empire]

This maybe a dumb question, but if I understand correctly dreadnought is a type of battleship similar to the Japanese Mikasa or German Nassau. What is the point to build such gigantic behemoth ?

Small and fast ships with torpedos are better !

If you wish to retain your reservation, you should stop ignoring. My patience has its limits.

As for your question - hindsight is a great thing. You can't understand how people thought that dreadnoughts were that valuable because you can't put yourself in their shoes. (and the Mikasa was a pre-dreadnought, just so that you know). Small and fast ships with torpedoes were eventually developed, but most people believed that huge guns with larger ranges would have the advantage in case of a naval battle. Your small torpedo ship is kinda useless if it gets destroyed from afar by a dreadnought. Torpedoes are best used when you have the element of surprise.

[The Traansval]

This maybe a dumb question, but if I understand correctly dreadnought is a type of battleship similar to the Japanese Mikasa or German Nassau. What is the point to build such gigantic behemoth ?

Small and fast ships with torpedos are better !

Basically the point of Battleships is to fight other battleships.

It makes more sense when you understand the build up of naval arms. Basically, we started with small ships, then built bigger ships to kill the small ships, and then we built even bigger ships to kill those bigger ships, etc. etc. Basically, nations build battleships because other nations have battleships, so they build them so their not vulnerable. Also Battleships can do large damage to medium sized ships and can bombard enemy ports or coastal emplacements, their basically floating artillery.

To your first question, a Dreadnought is a type of ship which features a "All Big Gun" layout. The idea is that instead of having multiple medium sized guns spread out in casemates (Think of one of the guns on the side of a WW1 British tank and thats basically a casemate, only with a fucking naval cannon in it) along the sides, Dreadnoughts featured fucking massive guns in bow (frontal) and aft (rear) turrents which could move from side to side, basically making it so that way you could fire all your guns no matter what side faced your enemy, unlike with Pre-Dreadnoughts where you could only bring half your guns on target since the other half were aimed the other direction. It also heavily maximized firepower as now you had between eight and ten massive shells heading towards your even instead of a dozen medium sized ones. Additionally, Dreadnoughts featured more armor, particullarly around the citadel (the area where the most vital parts such as the engine are located) and the turrets.

Good examples include the HMS Dreadnought, for which the class is named, and something like the New York Class for America.