New Civilizations ( OOC, Always Open, Reboot )

[Bortslovakia]

It seems no one is really trying to do anything with electricity? Is there a reason for that or have y'all just forgotten to after being so caught up with wars and boats and eunuchs and buddhism lmao

Not just for the big states like the Imperium, but very basic radio communication is quite easy assuming you know what's up and would be amazing for ships. You know how we spent millennia looking for a way to figure out longtitude? Well if only they had had radios that would tell you when noon was back home so you could compare!


I mean of course electricity is useful for other things, like electroplating (which has been happening for far longer than telegraphy or anything else). But really radio would be the big thing. I'm surprised no one has tried that.


EDIT: As well as gunpowder. Assuming you can make saltpeter, you don't even need to know the right recipe to get going mixing the three ingredients to see what happens. I think y'all underestimate the base amount of knowledge modern people just absorb without thinking.

Two reasons I think. Primarily because nothing is as easy in practice as it is in theory. We started working on saltpeter production before the 2985 timeskip, meaning theoretically I could have been testing gunpowder for around 5-10 years now. I've just been working under the assumption that getting the formula down exactly takes quite a bit of time, especially when you're trying to make powder at an industrial level. Proper electricity requires the creation of pretty intricate parts, something which requires modern forging techniques (Try and make copper wire with an open air primitive furnace). Secondly, and this ties into the first answer, there is a general consensus not to jump TOO far ahead in one go tech wise. Going from basic iron working to radios just isn't realistic, even if it sounds easy enough to do. Doesn't make for a great story.

[Joohan]

https://imgur.com/FhMhX3a

It got deleted...

I, don't have it in me to rewrite it...

If you go over my factbook, I saved the first 1/4 of the post in the thing labeled " stuff "... if you're really curious.

Look I just... here's a run down of what ya need to know. the campaign went pretty well. We got seven of the ten tribes up the Aerbaker to swear service - three we had to exterminate. We fought a big battle against one of them called the Merlee, who fielded a much larger army that was being bolstered by other allies along the Aerbaker. I highlighted the most important aspects of Icedonian military philosophy:

Intelligence: reconnaissance of the enemy by Scout-Elite ( who are exactly as the name would imply ) and regular scouts, as well as cross referencing with prior known information about the Merlee allowed us to foresee an impending ambush from their town. Post engagements, all commanders ( being that literacy is a requirement of commanders ) are required to write after action reports detailing everything that happened during their battles. These reports are then examined during AAR meetings by High-commanders, were we try to piece together information about the enemy and the overall tactical situation from the numerous reports given to us from all the platoons. This advanced system of reconnaissance and cross referencing of battlefield information is an essential aspect for when drawing up battle plans

Initiative: Most of the time, High-commanders wouldn't be able to see their company's platoons, so low-commanders were expected to be able to pull off time sensitive maneuvers in combat situations with no higher supervision. A lot of trust is put in the competence and initiative of low-commanders and sargents, allowing them to operate over a much larger field of battle than what would have been possible with less disciplined or less professional soldiers.

Retzev ( Unceasing Aggression ): Don't let the enemy rest for a second. When they try to rest or recover, enact terrible and decisive violence upon them. Always keep them on the move, never allow them time to think or heal. Icedonians are taught to go longer with less - and will wear the enemy down through that determination.

Issac win's the battle, but only after losing dozens of his own men, which finally puts a bad taste for war in his mouth ( I know, I was gonna have this be a really big moment for his character development, bUT wHatEVer ). Campaign end's after about a year and he returns to Israel.

... and we did some stuff in Cornwall over the timeskip, I don't really wanna get into right now. Im gonna rent the 1963 haunting on Hill House and peace out Civ' Fam

[Holy Tedalonia]

Welp, plopped the post down. Love it or hate it, its my first. As it stands, Im never happy with my first post, but hey gives me something to work off of. I feel like the paranoia of getting invaded by Icedonia, will certainly make my early days quite rough.

[Joohan]

It seems no one is really trying to do anything with electricity? Is there a reason for that or have y'all just forgotten to after being so caught up with wars and boats and eunuchs and buddhism lmao

Not just for the big states like the Imperium, but very basic radio communication is quite easy assuming you know what's up and would be amazing for ships. You know how we spent millennia looking for a way to figure out longtitude? Well if only they had had radios that would tell you when noon was back home so you could compare!


I mean of course electricity is useful for other things, like electroplating (which has been happening for far longer than telegraphy or anything else). But really radio would be the big thing. I'm surprised no one has tried that.


EDIT: As well as gunpowder. Assuming you can make saltpeter, you don't even need to know the right recipe to get going mixing the three ingredients to see what happens. I think y'all underestimate the base amount of knowledge modern people just absorb without thinking.

Alright, before I peace out, I saw you mention radios and I was like -BOi! That's my JOB! Literally.

Bort's hit it right on the nose. Not as easy in practice as it is in theory, and wouldn't make for great story telling. Radio's in particular, I can speak with a high degree of certainty. Fam, radios are a ways off from pretty much everybody.

[Reatra]

It seems no one is really trying to do anything with electricity? Is there a reason for that or have y'all just forgotten to after being so caught up with wars and boats and eunuchs and buddhism lmao

Not just for the big states like the Imperium, but very basic radio communication is quite easy assuming you know what's up and would be amazing for ships. You know how we spent millennia looking for a way to figure out longtitude? Well if only they had had radios that would tell you when noon was back home so you could compare!


I mean of course electricity is useful for other things, like electroplating (which has been happening for far longer than telegraphy or anything else). But really radio would be the big thing. I'm surprised no one has tried that.


EDIT: As well as gunpowder. Assuming you can make saltpeter, you don't even need to know the right recipe to get going mixing the three ingredients to see what happens. I think y'all underestimate the base amount of knowledge modern people just absorb without thinking.

Two reasons I think. Primarily because nothing is as easy in practice as it is in theory. We started working on saltpeter production before the 2985 timeskip, meaning theoretically I could have been testing gunpowder for around 5-10 years now. I've just been working under the assumption that getting the formula down exactly takes quite a bit of time, especially when you're trying to make powder at an industrial level. Proper electricity requires the creation of pretty intricate parts, something which requires modern forging techniques (Try and make copper wire with an open air primitive furnace). Secondly, and this ties into the first answer, there is a general consensus not to jump TOO far ahead in one go tech wise. Going from basic iron working to radios just isn't realistic, even if it sounds easy enough to do. Doesn't make for a great story.

I mean you probably definitely should have mentioned some experimentation with gunpowder because it seems unrealistic not to at that point, unless your Author is that distracted.

Also, fam, there's less people in all of the British Isles right now than in a small industrial English town from the early 1800s, no one needs industrial scales! That also confused me as to why G-Tech even has blast furnaces to begin with when smaller cupolas would more than suffice for arming his entire Imperium with cast iron...

And define "proper" electricity? Pulling wire is the main bottleneck, as that requires some amount of turning and annealing, but again, we are working with populations in the thousands right now, we aren't making wires for telegraph lines thousands of miles long. If you have anything approaching a meaningful amount of copper and the ability to anneal it and a few people to help, you can easily make a pretty significant amount of it. Enough to get started for sure!

And regarding your last sentence, define "one-go". Like for example if my Union suddenly had, idk, fully modern technology, as in my Author knew to the exact detail how to make everything, then what? What changes? Again, there's only some tens of thousands of people at most under any of our control, you know? Would being able to theoretically build a nuclear reactor actually... do anything? Would knowing how to do advanced mathematics, or create a television, would these things actually meaningfully affect the course of the story? There are some technologies that make for great stories, like, for example, if your Irish sailors were able to be certain they could make it back home due to hearing from Dublin every day when noon-time was, I'm sure you'd be able to write about the amazing stories of their adventures looking for the legendary "Island of Ice" up north?



I overall agree with you, though. Some things that we have done have been way too fast. Like I'm all for Authors advancing but they should have a decent base to work with beforehand. If your region has nitrates, great! Use them! If you know how to make them and have the manpower to work with a small bed of manure and urine, great! Do it! If you know about nearby sulfur and wanna use it, great!

But all this assumes that the Author some some semblance of manpower base to work with. You do! The Imperium does! Sumer does! The Commonwealth does! And I'm pretty sure the state in Japan does too (although the nature of her posts have made it harder to tell).


These aren't some magic bullets that will suddenly make you OP and that's unfair, it's just things you happen to know about before joining the RP that you can write about the process of developing... which is literally the point of the RP to begin with!

[Joohan]

Welp, plopped the post down. Love it or hate it, its my first. As it stands, Im never happy with my first post, but hey gives me something to work off of. I feel like the paranoia of getting invaded by Icedonia, will certainly make my early days quite rough.

* Icedonian merchant strokes farm equipment menacingly *

Hey kid... wanna buy a plow?

[Holy Tedalonia]

Welp, plopped the post down. Love it or hate it, its my first. As it stands, Im never happy with my first post, but hey gives me something to work off of. I feel like the paranoia of getting invaded by Icedonia, will certainly make my early days quite rough.

* Icedonian merchant strokes farm equipment menacingly *

Hey kid... wanna buy a plow?

[Kelmet]

https://imgur.com/FhMhX3a

It got deleted...

I, don't have it in me to rewrite it...

If you go over my factbook, I saved the first 1/4 of the post in the thing labeled " stuff "... if you're really curious.

Look I just... here's a run down of what ya need to know. the campaign went pretty well. We got seven of the ten tribes up the Aerbaker to swear service - three we had to exterminate. We fought a big battle against one of them called the Merlee, who fielded a much larger army that was being bolstered by other allies along the Aerbaker. I highlighted the most important aspects of Icedonian military philosophy:

Intelligence: reconnaissance of the enemy by Scout-Elite ( who are exactly as the name would imply ) and regular scouts, as well as cross referencing with prior known information about the Merlee allowed us to foresee an impending ambush from their town. Post engagements, all commanders ( being that literacy is a requirement of commanders ) are required to write after action reports detailing everything that happened during their battles. These reports are then examined during AAR meetings by High-commanders, were we try to piece together information about the enemy and the overall tactical situation from the numerous reports given to us from all the platoons. This advanced system of reconnaissance and cross referencing of battlefield information is an essential aspect for when drawing up battle plans

Initiative: Most of the time, High-commanders wouldn't be able to see their company's platoons, so low-commanders were expected to be able to pull off time sensitive maneuvers in combat situations with no higher supervision. A lot of trust is put in the competence and initiative of low-commanders and sargents, allowing them to operate over a much larger field of battle than what would have been possible with less disciplined or less professional soldiers.

Retzev ( Unceasing Aggression ): Don't let the enemy rest for a second. When they try to rest or recover, enact terrible and decisive violence upon them. Always keep them on the move, never allow them time to think or heal. Icedonians are taught to go longer with less - and will wear the enemy down through that determination.

Issac win's the battle, but only after losing dozens of his own men, which finally puts a bad taste for war in his mouth ( I know, I was gonna have this be a really big moment for his character development, bUT wHatEVer ). Campaign end's after about a year and he returns to Israel.

... and we did some stuff in Cornwall over the timeskip, I don't really wanna get into right now. Im gonna rent the 1963 haunting on Hill House and peace out Civ' Fam

A moment of silence for our fallen posts......

[Holy Tedalonia]

https://imgur.com/FhMhX3a

It got deleted...

I, don't have it in me to rewrite it...

If you go over my factbook, I saved the first 1/4 of the post in the thing labeled " stuff "... if you're really curious.

Look I just... here's a run down of what ya need to know. the campaign went pretty well. We got seven of the ten tribes up the Aerbaker to swear service - three we had to exterminate. We fought a big battle against one of them called the Merlee, who fielded a much larger army that was being bolstered by other allies along the Aerbaker. I highlighted the most important aspects of Icedonian military philosophy:

Intelligence: reconnaissance of the enemy by Scout-Elite ( who are exactly as the name would imply ) and regular scouts, as well as cross referencing with prior known information about the Merlee allowed us to foresee an impending ambush from their town. Post engagements, all commanders ( being that literacy is a requirement of commanders ) are required to write after action reports detailing everything that happened during their battles. These reports are then examined during AAR meetings by High-commanders, were we try to piece together information about the enemy and the overall tactical situation from the numerous reports given to us from all the platoons. This advanced system of reconnaissance and cross referencing of battlefield information is an essential aspect for when drawing up battle plans

Initiative: Most of the time, High-commanders wouldn't be able to see their company's platoons, so low-commanders were expected to be able to pull off time sensitive maneuvers in combat situations with no higher supervision. A lot of trust is put in the competence and initiative of low-commanders and sargents, allowing them to operate over a much larger field of battle than what would have been possible with less disciplined or less professional soldiers.

Retzev ( Unceasing Aggression ): Don't let the enemy rest for a second. When they try to rest or recover, enact terrible and decisive violence upon them. Always keep them on the move, never allow them time to think or heal. Icedonians are taught to go longer with less - and will wear the enemy down through that determination.

Issac win's the battle, but only after losing dozens of his own men, which finally puts a bad taste for war in his mouth ( I know, I was gonna have this be a really big moment for his character development, bUT wHatEVer ). Campaign end's after about a year and he returns to Israel.

... and we did some stuff in Cornwall over the timeskip, I don't really wanna get into right now. Im gonna rent the 1963 haunting on Hill House and peace out Civ' Fam

A moment of silence for our fallen posts......

Hold X to pay respects.

[Joohan]

* Icedonian merchant strokes farm equipment menacingly *

Hey kid... wanna buy a plow?

Imma be real though, we'd try and be friendly to the northerners. Not as many people up there, so convincing them to swear service would be easier. Military campaigns up north wouldn't garner much consideration, outside some extraordinary circumstance.

If you got any questions about Icedonia, our culture, military, government structure, the accants or merchants ( who would definitely frequent Spalding ) feel free to ask.

[Ralnis]

Imma be real though, we'd try and be friendly to the northerners. Not as many people up there, so convincing them to swear service would be easier. Military campaigns up north wouldn't garner much consideration, outside some extraordinary circumstance.

If you got any questions about Icedonia, our culture, military, government structure, the accants or merchants ( who would definitely frequent Spalding ) feel free to ask.

How much for your country?

[Joohan]

Imma be real though, we'd try and be friendly to the northerners. Not as many people up there, so convincing them to swear service would be easier. Military campaigns up north wouldn't garner much consideration, outside some extraordinary circumstance.

If you got any questions about Icedonia, our culture, military, government structure, the accants or merchants ( who would definitely frequent Spalding ) feel free to ask.

How much for your country?

The price is blood, and you ain't got enough

[Holy Tedalonia]

Imma be real though, we'd try and be friendly to the northerners. Not as many people up there, so convincing them to swear service would be easier. Military campaigns up north wouldn't garner much consideration, outside some extraordinary circumstance.

If you got any questions about Icedonia, our culture, military, government structure, the accants or merchants ( who would definitely frequent Spalding ) feel free to ask.

Oh, definitely. My take was that Spala, was going to be on friendly terms with Icedonia, but because they haven't submitted yet, they are overly cautious towards any reason Icedonia would declare war. Basically they are willing traders, but they dont want to be genocided.

About the questions, I do intend to ask more in time. I just wanted to get this post out, and prep the second one.

[Ralnis]

How much for your country?

The price is blood, and you ain't got enough

Actually its logistics, which I don't have enough of.

[Reatra]

It seems no one is really trying to do anything with electricity? Is there a reason for that or have y'all just forgotten to after being so caught up with wars and boats and eunuchs and buddhism lmao

Not just for the big states like the Imperium, but very basic radio communication is quite easy assuming you know what's up and would be amazing for ships. You know how we spent millennia looking for a way to figure out longtitude? Well if only they had had radios that would tell you when noon was back home so you could compare!


I mean of course electricity is useful for other things, like electroplating (which has been happening for far longer than telegraphy or anything else). But really radio would be the big thing. I'm surprised no one has tried that.


EDIT: As well as gunpowder. Assuming you can make saltpeter, you don't even need to know the right recipe to get going mixing the three ingredients to see what happens. I think y'all underestimate the base amount of knowledge modern people just absorb without thinking.

Alright, before I peace out, I saw you mention radios and I was like -BOi! That's my JOB! Literally.

Bort's hit it right on the nose. Not as easy in practice as it is in theory, and wouldn't make for great story telling. Radio's in particular, I can speak with a high degree of certainty. Fam, radios are a ways off from pretty much everybody.

Not gonna lie to you fam, while I am certain you do your job well and can definitely work with modern radios, I highly doubt anything the Army does regarding radio communications has much to do with spark-gaps producing electricity that sends out radiation. The US military does not need sparkgap radios transmitting morse code. No military has, for nearly a century. Because they've been prohibited under International Law since 1934. Please don't take offense to this, I have no idea of your ability to make sparkgap radios, nor of your ability to work with modern radios used by the US military, but I am saying that this isn't what's being proposed.



To make a radio you need coils of copper (your main coil and then maybe a tuning coil, but no one here would need more than one "station"), you need a power source (even a surprisingly small amount of volts will do because the main work is done in small bursts), you need a way to force the electricity to pass through between the spark gap, and you need a really long conductive pole made of copper or iron or whatever. When the electricity moves between the sparkgap it sends out radiation in the form of heat and light. Some of that light is radio waves which, due to their long wavelength, can go a fuckin long way.

The radiation hits that long pole (the receiver) and send electrons going crazy up and down. You can tell "ooh the radio is on, ooh the radio is off" etc. That's the basis of how it is able to send any binary information. Basically a telegraph that's wireless.

Now, if I were claiming to be able to build a crystal transmitter, or something similar, or anything that allowed me to transmit speech, or really anything beyond sparkgap radios, that would be a different story. But I only barely know how to do those in theory. I'm pretty confident I could make a sparkgap radio because I have made a rather low-voltage sparkgap before. All I was missing was the long pole-receiver part. Unfortunately I don't happen to have ten meters of metal on me irl. I could, though, after almost a decade of, you know, being in a place rich in such conductive metals and with a significant amount of people I could politely request to help me.


This is assuming you can get sulfur or iron pyrite, zinc and copper OR lead, and basic glass that doesn't need to be transparent, just, you know, glass. Some places have these materials. Such as the Leona Heights area in East Oakland that has been known even by indigenous peoples due to the fact that sulfur pollution literally flows out. To be fair you do have to have some elementary knowledge of chemistry and such, but most people who go through Western basic education do, and even just experimentation can serve immensely well because most 21st century people will know what they're looking for. I happen to know how to make sulfuric acid, okay, but if someone didn't, but knew it was something to do with sulfur and chlorine, and knew what they were looking for, it would not take nearly as long as we seem to be under the assumption of. Yeah "haha not everyone has read the book on how to invent everything" but you don't need to in order to know "hm acids react" and "hm energy is waves and electricity is a form of light" etcetera. These things would allow most Authors, assuming they're, you know, trying, to get pretty far.





I don't understand this roleplay's seeming fear of technology? Why do we all seem to assume that the most a single person can get is the Iron Age? It can't have anything to do with realism, because it's against realism wholly! Lots of people know lots of things! G-Tech knowing how to build whole ass blast furnaces and make steel and mass produce cast iron makes sense because he knows these things, and while he probably hasn't literally built a bessemer converter before, he doesn't need to have!

I don't see how it messes with the roleplay to say "oh yeah, it's been five years and you've had the resources to do x and y and you have a distinct interest in doing x and y and you are able to do x and y? Sure." Like I wasn't implying the timeskip would be "ok now California is connected to each other and people tune in for nightly broadcasts". There's a reason lots of pre-industrial and 19th century innovations were done by random ass rich dudes who had a bunch of raw materials at their disposal. Lots of things can be done with surprising simplicity, the reason they took so long irl is because the paradigm just wasn't there. A 21st century average person prolly has 10x more knowledge on how electricity works than a British noble who's part of London's science club did in the mid 1800s.





I'm really not tryna like, disagree for the purpose simply of disagreeing. I just wanna point it out that we're prolly talking about completely different things, and I think it takes away from the RP and turns it into "haha civilization but writing" instead of the idea of advancing humanity in what we consider a primitive era, which is what the RP was initially supposed to be, and why I enjoyed being a part of it for years. Basically, this isn't about "getting ahead" or beating anyone, or godmodding or powergaming or whatever. It's about the story of bringing the knowledge of the future to the people of the past, and what the Authors decide to do with that knowledge (use it to build an authoritarian empire, enslave people, get rich, form a democracy, explore the world on their own, etcetera). Like, what distinguishes our RP from a generic map game? I would say a lot does, but only because of stuff like that.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Oh, btw Joohan, I don't have my glasses this time. I think its a good change, since it gives him a good development hurdle, and it also forces him to rely on the more modern civilizations. It also doesn't make him stick out like a sore thumb, more then his unique vampire appearance already does.

[Hanafuridake]

It seems no one is really trying to do anything with electricity? Is there a reason for that or have y'all just forgotten to after being so caught up with wars and boats and eunuchs and buddhism lmao

Because I'm playing a character with my own interests and field of expertise and their knowledge is as limited as mine. It's why I'm using bamboo or wooden slips instead of paper or improvised material for protection instead of steel armor.

[UniversalCommons]

I know no one cares or should care but the Sumerian clothing is cotton and silk combinations that started to take a more middle eastern style. The focus is Persian aspects because such things I liked the culture and it already has a massive influence on the culture of the Middle East.

We would definitely trade for silk. Silk was used as a backing for lamellar armor by the mongols. It has good protective qualities against arrows and spears limiting penetration. Also, it would be fun to have a blue silk embroidered scholars robe with an amber necklace, copper and gold rings and a fox skin cap.

[Plzen]

Holy cow radio is a brilliant idea, how did I not think of it before?

And here I was trying to solve the longitude problem since two timeskips ago.

A redox battery with iron and copper as the two electrodes won’t be very good, and they’re the only two metals we have in workable quantity, but it will work. And I can always connect multiple ones together to get whatever voltage I desire.

Done this with potato in a classroom before, but it can be done with other foodstuff, I’m pretty sure. Don’t have the chemical industry to do this without food at all, alas.

Thanks for the the idea. This is totally happening.

[Kelmet]

Oh, btw Joohan, I don't have my glasses this time. I think its a good change, since it gives him a good development hurdle, and it also forces him to rely on the more modern civilizations. It also doesn't make him stick out like a sore thumb, more then his unique vampire appearance already does.

How badly do you need glasses?

[Joohan]

Alright, before I peace out, I saw you mention radios and I was like -BOi! That's my JOB! Literally.

Bort's hit it right on the nose. Not as easy in practice as it is in theory, and wouldn't make for great story telling. Radio's in particular, I can speak with a high degree of certainty. Fam, radios are a ways off from pretty much everybody.

snip

I know how radio wave propagation works. What you've described is, at it's basic understanding, a single channel HF radio. People aren't typically restrained in what they create by any in-game rules, so much as: 1. resources, 2. other obligations.

You can't found a civilization from scratch and run a full time laboratory. Let's say you do divy up your time though, and you really start focusing on inventing a particular item which you have a lot of knowledge about - say the radio. You quickly begin to realize that you simply don't have the resources or knowledge to acquire most of what you need. Let's say you want a radio, okay, what all are you gonna need: iron, copper, a bit of zinc, and some kind of insulator - like glass. So, you know have to expend man power and working hours to secure these things. You've scoured the land for iron, zinc, and copper mines, and now have a full three mining operations to get you the resources you need for experimentation. Already, we've expended a bit of capital.

Now you have your raw ore resources, which now must be formed. Do you know how to smelt copper, iron, and zinc? Copper is fairly easy, but then you get to the very high temperatures needed for iron. Now you need to invent kiln which can heat to the sufficient temperature. More time and more resources. Zinc is a whole other beast of difficulty, with the early ( and easiest ) process being something very unintuitive, and not something you'll just stumble upon after some experimentation. More time and resources are then spent into figuring out how to refine zinc.

Let's say you figure all this out, you've spent quite a bit of time and resources thus far, now you have to figure how to utilize your refined ores. Do you know how to shape all of these minerals into the materials you need? The coil for example; do you know how wire drawing works? If so, can you pull this wire into the desired width and length needed in order to form an efficient coil? If not, you will have to spend more time and resources in figuring out how to do this and creating the necessary machines to accomplish this. How about electricity? Potatoes aren't going to cut it here - just gonna have jerry running on a treadmill in the corner - more time and resources!

Let's say you do it, you've been successful in figuring out all this, and have created two whole working radios... do you know how to regulate and measure the speed ( i.e. frequency ) of a radio wave? If you don't, then there's no way you'll be able to communicate.

Now, think about all the time and resources you spent on this invention. If you're actively running a civilization, are you really gonna have the luxury to mess around with these expensive and resource intensive pet projects? You wanted to make a radio, then you wound up having to figure out: efficient mining techniques, smelting, chemistry, engineering, and electricity along the way. The reason people have been getting to around the iron age and slowing down, is because that's about were we need the base to be. We know our limitations. If we try and invent everything on our own, we'll never acomplish anything. Once we can get our civilization to about the iron age though, now we have a society which can aid us in our efforts. It's not just us having to invent everything now - we have specialists who can act wholly independent of our supervision, a robust economy which can produce the machines and ores we need, as well as a professional security force to ensure we don't have to worry about any external threats.

These aren't story or game limitations, they're capital ones

[Holy Tedalonia]

Oh, btw Joohan, I don't have my glasses this time. I think its a good change, since it gives him a good development hurdle, and it also forces him to rely on the more modern civilizations. It also doesn't make him stick out like a sore thumb, more then his unique vampire appearance already does.

How badly do you need glasses?

No that bad, I can still see everything save for cut, scratches, and groovings on material. And thats if its more then a foot or two away.

Basically the worlds smoother and simpler looking. Lacking the intricate clarity glasses bring. Given that im on the near sighted side of glasses, I would say distance guessing would slightly be messed up.

[Joohan]

Oh, btw Joohan, I don't have my glasses this time. I think its a good change, since it gives him a good development hurdle, and it also forces him to rely on the more modern civilizations. It also doesn't make him stick out like a sore thumb, more then his unique vampire appearance already does.

Sight is healed for gameplay reasons...

[Holy Tedalonia]

Oh, btw Joohan, I don't have my glasses this time. I think its a good change, since it gives him a good development hurdle, and it also forces him to rely on the more modern civilizations. It also doesn't make him stick out like a sore thumb, more then his unique vampire appearance already does.

Sight is healed for gameplay reasons...

Is that what it is now? Ok fine with that too. Just thought itd be fun to do that, no glasses thing.

Edited post accordingly.

[Ralnis]

I know no one cares or should care but the Sumerian clothing is cotton and silk combinations that started to take a more middle eastern style. The focus is Persian aspects because such things I liked the culture and it already has a massive influence on the culture of the Middle East.

We would definitely trade for silk. Silk was used as a backing for lamellar armor by the mongols. It has good protective qualities against arrows and spears limiting penetration. Also, it would be fun to have a blue silk embroidered scholars robe with an amber necklace, copper and gold rings and a fox skin cap.

Kurgan and Sumerian cavalry have lamellar armor but its mostly used for luxury clothing for the upper and middle class. It's also widely more available since theirs no stinking nobility to oppress the masses.