New Civilizations ( OOC, Always Open, Reboot )

[Hanafuridake]

Issac is the one we all look forward to meeting the most.

Because he's easier to kick than a soccer ball.

[Plzen]

Hey... when we meet, its gonna be ideological and cultural clashes galore. And I'm not nearly as pretentious.

Cheer up kiddo

When we meet, I'll probably be fighting the Hibernians over the northern rocks and still be in a position to write multiple OOC paragraphs in justifications and arguments every time I want my state to behave like something other than a house of cards.

I might need a break. Maybe I'm just a bit stressed right now.

[Joohan]

Issac is the one we all look forward to meeting the most.

Because he's easier to kick than a soccer ball.

I... I don't follow

[Alaroma]

Grace's solution to the issue of religious unrest which plagues Japan right now is going to be modeled on the 十住心 (jū-jūshin) which organized the various religions of 9th century East Asia into a graded system ranking from hedonism to absolute truth. At this point she's gotten tired of using religion as a basis for rule and is settling on a more subordinate position for it. Monks and monasteries will receive a degree of autonomy but are expected to have no say in government (how successful this turns out will take time).

The Jātaka tales are going to be useful because they're stories about Shaka's past lives as gods, humans, and animals. These Aesop fables could be reworked to accommodate the animist worship of the Jōmon people by claiming that the various animal spirits and deities they worship were past lives of the Buddha. Which is similar to the honji suijaku system where Buddhas and bodhisattva were believed to incarnate as native gods to deliver people from suffering.

But how do you treat Christians though?

I’ve decided that I will “allow” religious freedom in Axum, but our version of Christianity will be dominant, and favored by the State. Non Christians will have to pay extra taxes, but besides that, they’ll be fine. The Imperiums Christians, while not our branch, will be exempt of this tax as well if there happens to be any of his Christians ending up in Axum.

[Joohan]

Hey... when we meet, its gonna be ideological and cultural clashes galore. And I'm not nearly as pretentious.

Cheer up kiddo

When we meet, I'll probably be fighting the Hibernians over the northern rocks and still be in a position to write multiple OOC paragraphs in justifications and arguments every time I want my state to behave like something other than a house of cards.

I might need a break. Maybe I'm just a bit stressed right now.

I feel ya fam. Dont feel obligated to always have to justify yourself OOC before an action.

Sometimes, it's better to just post it and only reply OOC If someone calls you out on it.

[Alaroma]

Issac is the one we all look forward to meeting the most.

Because he's easier to kick than a soccer ball.

I... I don't follow

Neither do I.

I’m personally more interested in meeting Grace, Luther, and Clara personally.

Meanwhile I feel my character story is lacking, so I need to think about how to add more to it. I don’t really have a major place for politics, not yet at least.

[Hanafuridake]

Issac is the one we all look forward to meeting the most.

Because he's easier to kick than a soccer ball.

I... I don't follow

He is the most memeable character here, you must admit.

[Alaroma]

I... I don't follow

He is the most memeable character here, you must admit.

I don’t know, Lesbian Buddhist Shogunate is pretty damn funny too.

[Kelmet]

Of course, I leave for the night, don't get online till the evening, and theres 7 pages of OOC lol.... I missed you guys.

[Ralnis]

I... I don't follow

Neither do I.

I’m personally more interested in meeting Grace, Luther, and Clara personally.

Meanwhile I feel my character story is lacking, so I need to think about how to add more to it. I don’t really have a major place for politics, not yet at least.

You don't want to meet Luther, he's the worst character in the RP.

[Alaroma]

Neither do I.

I’m personally more interested in meeting Grace, Luther, and Clara personally.

Meanwhile I feel my character story is lacking, so I need to think about how to add more to it. I don’t really have a major place for politics, not yet at least.

You don't want to meet Luther, he's the worst character in the RP.

Eh, I need to do better too.

[Ralnis]

You don't want to meet Luther, he's the worst character in the RP.

Eh, I need to do better too.

No, I mean he really is the worst person in the RP. He is a failure in this RP compared to everyone else.

[Bortslovakia]

...32 miles is 3 days' round trip on foot, on good roads. Even on horseback I can't see someone making a hundred kilometres a day. For an early modern army 74 miles is probably closer to a week's trip, but neither of our armies are advanced enough to require much in the way of logistics. Food, a bit of ammunition. But it's still well, well over a day's journey.

Assuming that you can in fact get help within a day, in order to have a day's forewarning you probably need lookouts for at least 30~40km out into sea. Slightly under half a day's sail in, pillage, and slightly under half a day's sail out. Seeing a longship that's, oh, 10m high 30km out into sea means a lookout post at least 60~70 metres above sea level, and hilly is not a good description of the mouth of the Boyne river.

For context, I've been on 20 mile hikes before. They are most certainly doable within a day. My feet hated me afterwards, but three days for 32 miles means you're really taking your sweet ass time. A Roman legion could march roughly 22 miles a day. Hypothetically they could manage 30 at a forced march. Since Irish roads already have waystations with supplies, they really only need to carry their equipment, water, and a bit of food. Under these circumstances, 30 is doable even with less accommodating roads, albeit by marching to exhaustion. Any far off important city can probably hold for at least a day though, so such a forced march would only need to be applied against smaller raiding bands targeting a settlement of 150-200. Attacking, say, Linns isn't going to be a few hour endeavor.

I'm not sure why you're assuming a lone messenger is going to just walk their way to get help though. At least that's what the "32 miles is 3 days round trip" line implies. The average speed of a horse is 25-30 mph at gallop. Now, the horses western European powers have available are not... great.... so let's assume that at speed with the added weight of a rider, they can manage the low end. Irish roads are good, but not amazing, so factoring even further a skilled rider can probably manage 20 mph. Assuming at least one stop to let the horse rest, that's two hours. Presumably by following established roads, they've also alerted towns along the way (if there are any). Maybe another hour or two to muster a force, and then they're off. So a little over a day if conditions are ideal, and the army is at a forced pace.

Now assuming no horse is available, which is entirely possible, we'd have to rely on human runners. 10-15 mph is average speed in this case, and with a larger selection pool to choose from, I suspect 15 mph is doable. Being a tad more sure on their feet than on a saddle, even with slick or rough roads, 15 mph should be pretty consistent for a runner unless they're running up a mountain. With probably at least one or two breaks, that's three hours. Maybe as the war goes on, and horses become more valuable militarily, we'll institute an Incan runner style system. Dead sprint for a mile or two, then switch off. Regardless, it most certainly doesn't take a day to get there. It's just that an army can't run for a few hours in their equipment, and show up ready for battle. Hence why it takes so long. Attacking the Boyne settlements though, most being no more than a few hours distance, with half a day's warning? Ho boy, that's a mistake not worth repeating twice.

Assume your patrol finds a Norse fleet. Then what? You're going to engage a superior naval force? Send a ship to your nearest naval base for help - and who knows where the Norse fleet would have sailed to when that help arrives? You don't need a patrol, you need an actual naval force on those channels capable of intercepting any fleets that try to come through.

St. George's Channel is a bit under 80km wide on a map. If you can get a man 10m above sea level on one of your ships, which gives you a line of sight of about 3.5km each way on a clear day, you can close about 10% of that route with one fleet. That's fairly significant. A couple of fleets on patrol, spaced out enough for ships within each fleet to easily help and communicate but not spaced out so much that they can be defeated piecemeal, would probably catch a quarter of Norse attempts to force fleets into the Irish Sea. This would probably be sufficient to discourage raids on eastern Ireland in favour of the more open west, instead.

A couple fleets, each capable of defeating the longships of the Norwegian Republican Guards, which would be the smallest of the three forces I'm hypothesising would be raiding Ireland, is 10~15 ships. To catch that combined force of 1,400 men you probably want at least 30 ships per fleet, which would be 90 for the two patrols on the south and to close the northern entrance to the Sea. Say, don't you have other places where you might need those ships? To support a siege of the Orkney Norse settlements or raids on Scandinavia proper, perhaps?

We can probably spare some of those ships from the north. It's a significantly more difficult avenue of travel. It should only take a few months to fully control the Orkneys, assuming by this point we both have multiple settlements. It's a planned invasion that the Norse can't possibly respond to in time after all. The raids on Scandinavia are a whole other matter. They'll take up most of the fleet, admittedly leaving Ireland only defended by its own merchant marine. But that's a short, last resort campaign, so no it won't be taking up any ships for most of the conflict.

I'm ok with the other numbers though, if only because we've been arguing for hours and need to agree on something
A quarter, with more incentive to raid southern and western Ireland. The goal of the raiders is captives anyway, and even if the population there is minimal, there's practically no way to properly defend it. I'm sure attempts will be made, but a coastal village with twenty people who are two to three days away from any potential support is easy pickings. I can definitely see a migration inland in the future.

The settlements on the Orkneys will be fortified. I think it would be rather severely out-of-character for Pat and Hibernia to jump at the seizure of a friendly power (because we are friendly, right now) without at least trying some diplomatic demands and negotiations first, and as slow as our government can be, the settlers of the Orkneys won't be and they can read the writing on the wall.

Oh of course. His first attempt will be to work out some form of joint treaty. Probably along the lines of what I was thinking earlier. A single signatory "Free City" per island cluster, with Hibernian control over the land itself. The Danes get their ports, and the Irish their security.

If that fails though, then it will confirm Pat's fears, and definitely upset the Irish population as a whole. The Norse, after years of raiding sovereign Hibernian territory, finally agree to a lasting treaty... Only for them to occupy strategic locations off the British coastline in a blatant display of bad faith. And to add insult to injury, they seem to be refusing completely acceptable diplomatic overtures (at least in theory). None of those things paint the Northerners as a friendly power. That would be the sentiment that drives Ireland, and Patrick for that matter, to war.

Really the only reason why it'll take time to overwhelm the Norse strongpoints on the island is because orders will be to avoid violence when possible. The initial goal, if war does break out, will be to detain, compensate, and return the settlers back to Scandinavian territory.

The "largest Atlantic ports" would probably have close to 400 inhabitants at that time, which means 150~200 local defenders. In highly constricted, urban terrain that partially nullifies the advantage of numerical superiority, it isn't that much of a stretch to say that they can probably put 100~150 casualties into your army each.
How many men can you burn on a Scandinavian campaign, again?

The thing is, the counter raid plan is a highly unsavory plan B. The objective there isn't to send soldiers flippantly into a city with the intent of looting. Realistically, it would look similar to a G siege, but at sea. Incendiaries, bombardment, and only after the city and ships in port are ablaze, a landing force of two hundred or so to mop up the few survivors. The destruction of those key ports would then, hopefully, force a peace. A brutal display to end the war before both states collapse from constant fighting. And even if the Irish force a peace in their favor, Pat will want stipulations, much like in the old peace deal with Drogheda, where Hibernia helps rebuild the destroyed ports.

I greatly look forwards to this. I'd take inspiration and maybe make my own, but... well, I already made a year 40 map that vaguely hints at population densities, and it would be a bit redundant to make another one for year 25~30.

It'll take time, and some research, but I hope to do proud.

I greatly look forwards to this also.

Hey... when we meet, its gonna be ideological and cultural clashes galore. And I'm not nearly as pretentious.

Cheer up kiddo

When we meet, I'll probably be fighting the Hibernians over the northern rocks and still be in a position to write multiple OOC paragraphs in justifications and arguments every time I want my state to behave like something other than a house of cards.

I might need a break. Maybe I'm just a bit stressed right now.

You'll be getting that post today, regardless of how exhausted I am. Worry not.

Sorry if I've caused any stress, but at least you get the satisfaction of knowing I can empathize with your situation. It's definitely disheartening to spend half a day arguing over every little detail for something that hasn't even happened yet. At this point, unless we can have a more measured conversation down the road, I'd rather settle this peacefully just for OOC's sake.

[UniversalCommons]

The best way to do better is to post please.

[G-Tech Corporation]

The best way to do better is to post please.

Apologies for the delay. Kelmet and I are cranking a collab.

[Cainesland]

Eh, I need to do better too.

No, I mean he really is the worst person in the RP. He is a failure in this RP compared to everyone else.

It kind of depends on the metrics one uses to define success and failure. Bostwick, for instance, is more interested in helping others, taking care of his family, and finding Canada among other things. So far finding Canada seems unlikely, his family is doing alright and he has been able to try to help others. Luther seems a bit eager to engage in war, and tends to expand rather quickly, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he is a failure.

[Ralnis]

No, I mean he really is the worst person in the RP. He is a failure in this RP compared to everyone else.

It kind of depends on the metrics one uses to define success and failure. Bostwick, for instance, is more interested in helping others, taking care of his family, and finding Canada among other things. So far finding Canada seems unlikely, his family is doing alright and he has been able to try to help others. Luther seems a bit eager to engage in war, and tends to expand rather quickly, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he is a failure.

Actually it's been a couple years since the Unification and after Elam it will be about 8 after that. So while Luther is a greedy, war hungry piece of shjt doesn't mean he doesn't build up his economy afterwards then see what he can do about his neighbors.

However he is still a piece of shit character and his story drags the RP's quality down by a whole lot.

[G-Tech Corporation]

No, I mean he really is the worst person in the RP. He is a failure in this RP compared to everyone else.

It kind of depends on the metrics one uses to define success and failure. Bostwick, for instance, is more interested in helping others, taking care of his family, and finding Canada among other things. So far finding Canada seems unlikely, his family is doing alright and he has been able to try to help others. Luther seems a bit eager to engage in war, and tends to expand rather quickly, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he is a failure.

By the metric of most death caused, Luther is winning handily

[Ralnis]

It kind of depends on the metrics one uses to define success and failure. Bostwick, for instance, is more interested in helping others, taking care of his family, and finding Canada among other things. So far finding Canada seems unlikely, his family is doing alright and he has been able to try to help others. Luther seems a bit eager to engage in war, and tends to expand rather quickly, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he is a failure.

By the metric of most death caused, Luther is winning handily

See, my shit-tier story brings nothing but mass destruction to the ancient world. I've been debating if I should have Luther kill himself in order to stop it and just leave because of it.

[Alaroma]

It kind of depends on the metrics one uses to define success and failure. Bostwick, for instance, is more interested in helping others, taking care of his family, and finding Canada among other things. So far finding Canada seems unlikely, his family is doing alright and he has been able to try to help others. Luther seems a bit eager to engage in war, and tends to expand rather quickly, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he is a failure.

By the metric of most death caused, Luther is winning handily

I meant in character development, not things done. I want to build an intereating story just as much as I want to win glory for Axum.

[Cainesland]

It kind of depends on the metrics one uses to define success and failure. Bostwick, for instance, is more interested in helping others, taking care of his family, and finding Canada among other things. So far finding Canada seems unlikely, his family is doing alright and he has been able to try to help others. Luther seems a bit eager to engage in war, and tends to expand rather quickly, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he is a failure.

Actually it's been a couple years since the Unification and after Elam it will be about 8 after that. So while Luther is a greedy, war hungry piece of shjt doesn't mean he doesn't build up his economy afterwards then see what he can do about his neighbors.

However he is still a piece of shit character and his story drags the RP's quality down by a whole lot.

Ok. Thank you. I’m going on the map for area exclusively controlled by Sumer, which looks to be about the size of Nestos.

If you think that is the case, you could try to improve the situation. You could draft a strength weakness opportunity weakness chart to see what Sumers current strengths are and future opportunities that you would like to work towards, as well as current weaknesses and liabilities that Sumer could benefit from working on trying to improve upon. That might provide an interesting way to take another look at Luther and Sumer and see how to improve.

[Ralnis]

Actually it's been a couple years since the Unification and after Elam it will be about 8 after that. So while Luther is a greedy, war hungry piece of shjt doesn't mean he doesn't build up his economy afterwards then see what he can do about his neighbors.

However he is still a piece of shit character and his story drags the RP's quality down by a whole lot.

Ok. Thank you. I’m going on the map for area exclusively controlled by Sumer, which looks to be about the size of Nestos.

If you think that is the case, you could try to improve the situation. You could draft a strength weakness opportunity weakness chart to see what Sumers current strengths are and future opportunities that you would like to work towards, as well as current weaknesses and liabilities that Sumer could benefit from working on trying to improve upon. That might provide an interesting way to take another look at Luther and Sumer and see how to improve.

That is what my current post is about with the Three Rivers Initiative to boost production around Sumer, Elam, and Arrata and rebuild Sumer but I'll just have Luther commit suicides, the world will be better for it.

[UniversalCommons]

Universal, is Nestos planning on expanding into Bulgaria and Constantinople?

Thrace is basically Bulgaria as a starting point. We started on the Nestos river which is the Greek name for the Mesta river. Essentially what we are doing is uniting the Thracians into a unitary culture and rewriting the history of Bulgaria and the surrounding area. We are not invading it. We are it. The area of Thrace historically covers Turkey, Bulgaria, and Greece. Constantinople will not exist until 337 a.d. The closest city to Constantinople is Troy which is part of our area of influence. Constantine considered building where Troy was. Troy is a very different city at this point. We are allied with Troy as a trade city.

We are rewriting the pre-history of Bulgaria by uniting the tribes and absorbing elements from Egypt, Anatolia, Sumer, and Greece. We are also introducing ideas that will exist in the future like atomism which came from Bulgaria, Sabazius will become the great Horseman, the Great Goddess is a generic term for Cotys or Bendis both of whom are tied with the Thracians. The temple of the body parts is a variation on the health aspect of Derzalis.

[Kelmet]

The best way to do better is to post please.

Apologies for the delay. Kelmet and I are cranking a collab.

[Alaroma]

Is the map being edited?