German-American Cold War Interest/Concept thread

[Zarzadon]

I have had the idea of doing a Nazi Germany vs United States cold war RP for a while now. I'm sure someone has done this before, but why not? It could be fun. I have created this thread to gauge interest and discuss how this would work.

I'm not going for ultra realism, because the Nazis winning at all is unlikely, but something everyone participating can agree on.

I want this RP to be about politics, diplomacy, proxy wars, etc. rather than full blown nuclear war. You know, like a cold war

The Thread starts on 1/1/1950

The current working scenario is generally the Allies and the Axis reluctantly work together to destroy communism and the USSR.

[ThePhantomThieves]

I'd be interested if I could control (a fully independent) Canada (in the case that this will be a nation-based roleplay).

[Zarzadon]

I'd be interested if I could control (a fully independent) Canada (in the case that this will be a nation-based roleplay).

That could be really interesting.
Though you do inadvertently bring up a good point. Maybe for minor countries, like Canada (no offense) it could be nation based but major countries like the U.S. or Germany could be character based. Although I can see some issues with that system.

[ThePhantomThieves]

I'd be interested if I could control (a fully independent) Canada (in the case that this will be a nation-based roleplay).

That could be really interesting.
Though you do inadvertently bring up a good point. Maybe for minor countries, like Canada (no offense) it could be nation based but major countries like the U.S. or Germany could be character based. Although I can see some issues with that system.

No offense, but that doesn't sound like a very good idea.

[Zarzadon]

That could be really interesting.
Though you do inadvertently bring up a good point. Maybe for minor countries, like Canada (no offense) it could be nation based but major countries like the U.S. or Germany could be character based. Although I can see some issues with that system.

No offense, but that doesn't sound like a very good idea.

yeah probably not. one or the other. most likely nation based to attract the most people

[Harbertia]

Just moving this here for easy access;

Hey. I am working on an alternate Cold War RP with the United States vs Nazi Germany instead of the USSR. It's nation based probably starting around 1950 or so. Other than that, I don't really have anything other than emphasizing usual cold war stuff like politics, diplomacy, proxy wars, etc. rather than all out war.
Also I'm not sure how many people this RP would attract, so.. here I am

Hey Zarzadon,

I can help with some details but I'll need some gauge of what you're going for beyond the above description.

So here are somethings to consider;

First off- how your situation came into being.

The USSR was our Ally during the 2nd World war which is part of why the war was cold rather then hot. A situation to consider is as follows; rather then Hitler proposing splitting Poland it's Stalin who does and thus the USSR is the first to Invade Poland. The German Army advances into Poland in the name of combating Soviet Expansion and thus begins WWII with the Anti-Communist International (Axis Powers) and the Allies fighting against the Communist International. Japan invades the Soviet Union gaining lumber, minerals, and other raw resources of the Eastern Soviet Territory while the German Government continues to support (along with Americans) the Nationalist forces of China in crushing Mao. This direction is taken due to the conflicts focus on Communist and due to Japan obtaining land not in China but in Eastern Russia. Their is no North or South Korea situation because of this. Only after the Soviets are defeated does this version of the cold War begin.

I do understand the concern; it's why I didn't propose the US not getting involved (due to no attack on it's borders)- such would have been too much and not have established a cold war scenario '~' the set up is not something that can be rushed into. The British Empire- like- I do feel having it as the other 'great power' in a cold war with Germany (rather then the US) would be too much of a change from history :/It'd be too alien I feel for most players.

Actually the more i think about it, this scenario is great. Germany taking much of the western parts of the USSR for it's lebensraum, Japan taking a lot of eastern Siberia, and a fledgling Russian republic in the middle. France, Low countries, Scandinavia etc. are not invaded by Germany and that's where the 'iron curtain' lies. This could be very interesting

Now we are on the same page ahahhaha

[Zarzadon]

Just moving this here for easy access;

Hey Zarzadon,

I can help with some details but I'll need some gauge of what you're going for beyond the above description.

So here are somethings to consider;

First off- how your situation came into being.

The USSR was our Ally during the 2nd World war which is part of why the war was cold rather then hot. A situation to consider is as follows; rather then Hitler proposing splitting Poland it's Stalin who does and thus the USSR is the first to Invade Poland. The German Army advances into Poland in the name of combating Soviet Expansion and thus begins WWII with the Anti-Communist International (Axis Powers) and the Allies fighting against the Communist International. Japan invades the Soviet Union gaining lumber, minerals, and other raw resources of the Eastern Soviet Territory while the German Government continues to support (along with Americans) the Nationalist forces of China in crushing Mao. This direction is taken due to the conflicts focus on Communist and due to Japan obtaining land not in China but in Eastern Russia. Their is now North or South Korea situation because of this. Only after the Soviets are defeated does this version of the cold War begin.

Actually the more i think about it, this scenario is great. Germany taking much of the western parts of the USSR for it's lebensraum, Japan taking a lot of eastern Siberia, and a fledgling Russian republic in the middle. France, Low countries, Scandinavia etc. are not invaded by Germany and that's where the 'iron curtain' lies. This could be very interesting

Now we are on the same page ahahhaha

the same page. Literally

[Prussian Polish Commonwealth]

Only if I can play as a monarchist underground group in Nazi Germany.

[Zarzadon]

Only if I can play as a monarchist underground group in Nazi Germany.

Interesting. Maybe

[Plzen]

A unified Nordic state, of course.

I might be able to bring in quite a bit of the worldbuilding material I have from a similar RP I was in before.

Consider keeping the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact intact, with the Allies fighting the Soviets and at peace with but antagonistic to the anti-Comintern, and the interim peace in Eastern Europe being broken by a Soviet invasion of Germany, bringing Germany into the allied camp.

[Harbertia]

A unified Nordic state, of course.

I might be able to bring in quite a bit of the worldbuilding material I have from a similar RP I was in before.

Consider keeping the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact intact, with the Allies fighting the Soviets and at peace with but antagonistic to the anti-Comintern, and the interim peace in Eastern Europe being broken by a Soviet invasion of Germany, bringing Germany into the allied camp.

Such is similar to this proposal. Hopefully Zarzadon finalizes something using our suggestions. I think with brainstorming we can come up with something; for example the proposal I've put forward has the peace being broken by an invasion of Poland (as in our timeline) but the Soviets invading first thus making Germany's claim regarding the offensive as a counter to soviet expansion legit rather then in doubt (the Allies didn't buy it as the Germans invaded first). I figured this would be the rally behind which the Belgrade Pact, Anti-Comintern, and even the Allies could get behind.

[Zarzadon]

Some rough ideas I have to make this scenario work

in WWI the Germans are able to capture a french supply center (I forget exactly what this was called I have to look it up) and is able to go on for another month or two. The prolonged war leads to a total mutiny in much of the French Army and a communist revolution. The revolution is put down by the Americans and British who are also able to beat back the Germans and win much in the same way as our timeline.

Stalin dies during the Polish-Soviet war leading to the more expansionist Trotsky to come to power after Lenin.

For the sake of simplicity, the inter war years are the same (aside from changes in other's nation's histories)

The Communists win the elections in France. I have decided to make France communist as well so there more than one important enemy in WWII. I can change this it's just an idea I had.

Germany and the Soviet Union patrician Poland much like in our timeline. British politicians debate endlessly on weather or not to intervene as not having France to fight from and with makes them more reluctant.

The Soviet Union breaks it's non aggression pact and invades Germany to establish it's Greater European Worker's Union. France joins in on the side of the Soviets. Caught off guard the Germans are pushed back in the east and a bit in the west.

Britain declares war on the Soviet Union, reluctantly allying with Germany as they don't want one nation to dominate Europe.

(this i'm not so sure on) in 1941 a Communist coup rises in America, mainly in Denver. After retaking the city, it is revealed they where collaborating with the USSR. This was done with the hope that by controlling american they would gain resources they needed to continue the war effort after the capture of Ukraine and the Causcus, and if they lost they would just burn the document but neither happened. The United States declare war on the Soviet Union, bringing it out of isolation.

(or another idea to bring america into the war) Communists win the Mexican Civil War and agree to ally with the Soviet Union. Assisted by both soviet soldiers and supplies they invade america with the goal of ending the lend lease to Britain and other goals stated above. They believe the US is still weak from the great depression but after some initial minor losses, they are proven wrong.

By 1945, the axis powers and the Allies are able to defeat the Commentern with the final nail in the coffin of the Nuke dropped on Irkutsk, finally making the Soviets surrender. While France remains in the hands of the western powers, Russia is split among Germany and Japan with a weak Russian republic in the middle.

These are just some rough ideas, what do you think? any feedback?

i have no idea what to do with asia

i'm also considering a balkan campaign but I guess that would be up to anyone who want to be a balkan country since it's not necessary.

[Harbertia]

Some rough ideas I have to make this scenario work

in WWI the Germans are able to capture a french supply center (I forget exactly what this was called I have to look it up) and is able to go on for another month or two. The prolonged war leads to a total mutiny in much of the French Army and a communist revolution. The revolution is put down by the Americans and British who are also able to beat back the Germans and win much in the same way as our timeline.

Stalin dies during the Polish-Soviet war leading to the more expansionist Trotsky to come to power after Lenin.

For the sake of simplicity, the inter war years are the same (aside from changes in other's nation's histories)

The Communists win the elections in France. I have decided to make France communist as well so there more than one important enemy in WWII. I can change this it's just an idea I had.

Germany and the Soviet Union patrician Poland much like in our timeline. British politicians debate endlessly on weather or not to intervene as not having France to fight from and with makes them more reluctant.

The Soviet Union breaks it's non aggression pact and invades Germany to establish it's Greater European Worker's Union. France joins in on the side of the Soviets. Caught off guard the Germans are pushed back in the east and a bit in the west.

Britain declares war on the Soviet Union, reluctantly allying with Germany as they don't want one nation to dominate Europe.

(this i'm not so sure on) in 1941 a Communist coup rises in America, mainly in Denver. After retaking the city, it is revealed they where collaborating with the USSR. This was done with the hope that by controlling american they would gain resources they needed to continue the war effort after the capture of Ukraine and the Causcus, and if they lost they would just burn the document but neither happened. The United States declare war on the Soviet Union, bringing it out of isolation.

(or another idea to bring america into the war) Communists win the Mexican Civil War and agree to ally with the Soviet Union. Assisted by both soviet soldiers and supplies they invade america with the goal of ending the lend lease to Britain and other goals stated above. They believe the US is still weak from the great depression but after some initial minor losses, they are proven wrong.

By 1945, the axis powers and the Allies are able to defeat the Commentern with the final nail in the coffin of the Nuke dropped on Irkutsk, finally making the Soviets surrender. While France remains in the hands of the western powers, Russia is split among Germany and Japan with a weak Russian republic in the middle.

These are just some rough ideas, what do you think? any feedback?

It's an angle I didn't consider, and a tad impressive Since no one has claimed France, Mexico, or the US I think it'll work.

[Hypnoss]

Perhaps, to mirror the partition of Germany OTL: France could be split North/South, with half being set up as a fascist dictatorship, and half a democratic republic?

[Harbertia]

Perhaps, to mirror the partition of Germany OTL: France could be split North/South, with half being set up as a fascist dictatorship, and half a democratic republic?

I think that's a good idea.

[Zarzadon]

Perhaps, to mirror the partition of Germany OTL: France could be split North/South, with half being set up as a fascist dictatorship, and half a democratic republic?

I actually considered that but I feared giving Germany too much. It is defiantly a good idea I'll keep in mind.
Perhaps if they don't take too much of Russian and the Balkans can go either way it'll work

[Zarzadon]

This is what the German Reich and it's puppets/substates might roughly look like.

https://imgur.com/fxJdktk

[Mervay]

So an nazi germany-us cold war??? Hell yeah. I join this one,but before one question we can RP with an character from an IRL nation???. Like for example an Argentinian journalist???

[Harbertia]

This is what the German Reich and it's puppets/substates might roughly look like.

https://imgur.com/fxJdktk

Is the Bbue Reich France?

[Zarzadon]

So an nazi germany-us cold war??? Hell yeah. I join this one,but before one question we can RP with an character from an IRL nation???. Like for example an Argentinian journalist???

I'm considering it. I have in mind it being nation based but for a character so minor perhaps I can make an exception. If you play as all of Argentina, I see no issue with you having that character as well.

[Zarzadon]

This is what the German Reich and it's puppets/substates might roughly look like.

https://imgur.com/fxJdktk

Is the Bbue Reich France?

yes. It is the fascist France (or east France) formed from Germany's occupied lands in France after the war. It might not look exactly like that in the final but roughly it's the idea.

[Mervay]

So an nazi germany-us cold war??? Hell yeah. I join this one,but before one question we can RP with an character from an IRL nation???. Like for example an Argentinian journalist???

I'm considering it. I have in mind it being nation based but for a character so minor perhaps I can make an exception. If you play as all of Argentina, I see no issue with you having that character as well.

I see,well it will be interesting to see how Peron (Argentinian leader of that time) responds to this cold war between US-Nazi Germany.

[Harbertia]

Is the Bbue Reich France?

yes. It is the fascist France (or east France) formed from Germany's occupied lands in France after the war. It might not look exactly like that in the final but roughly it's the idea.

Alright, and it will indeed be interesting as Mervay says- to see how Peron is handled.

[Zarzadon]

I might make a proper OOC thread soon now that I have a decent grasp on the general timeline. The remaining countries lore can be filled in as people sign up.

[Harbertia]

I might make a proper OOC thread soon now that I have a decent grasp on the general timeline. The remaining countries lore can be filled in as people sign up.

sounds good just be sure to make sure the histories are harmonious (as in no conflicting accounts)