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Kazarogkai
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7828
Founded: Jan 27, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kazarogkai » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:14 am

Vienna Eliot wrote:We're now debating and voting on Zjuam's proposal. If it fails, then tomorrow we'll debate and vote on Kazarogkai's proposal. This is because the latter proposal contradicts Zjuam's, so we can't pass them both. But if anyone proposes something that doesn't contradict something that's been passed (or might be passed), then it will get debate and a vote.

Hopefully this makes sense. Let me know if you're at all confused by anything.

Mind you the charter I made is in effect a work in progress, it's meant to be a proposal for the potential structure of the charter rather than being anything in it's own right. Also is his proposal a proposal for a law or actually a proposal for what will become the charter of the city, if it's the former then I presume we are now in the process of actually trying to make a charter. In that case only the second part of my proposal specifically the one referring to how an executive should function, actually contradicts his own. As such they technically could be discussed at the same time with each of us debating the relate merits of are systems. That is how it was done in the constitutional convention at the very least.

Your the Op so I'm not making any demands upon you, only speaking my thoughts and making some suggestions.
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Vienna Eliot
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Founded: Feb 16, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vienna Eliot » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:48 pm

I assumed Zjaum's proposal was meant to be part of the charter, but not the full thing. Perhaps he can clarify his intention.
Last edited by Vienna Eliot on Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Zjaum
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Founded: Oct 15, 2016
Corporate Bordello

Postby Zjaum » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:09 pm

Vienna Eliot wrote:I assumed Zjaum's proposal was meant to be part of the charter, but not the full thing. Perhaps he can clarify his intention.

I was assuming that the charter could be formed from the compilation of our agreements, rather than one-man-decides-everything. While considerably faster and more efficient, I feel like it would annihilate the point of discussing and bargaining in the forum. My proposal is not the official charter, but it will probably be incorporated into it.

If we are supposed to make charters individually, I can get right on mine.
I use my NationStates stats, because a population of billions/trillions and an economy of hundreds of trillions is totally viable, trust me.
But seriously, aside from the population and GDP, just assume that my NS stats are roughly accurate.

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Against: Stupid people, resistance to industrial progress, alt-right, any form of government at or beyond socialism.

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The stars will be ours someday.

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Spaceania
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Founded: Jan 06, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spaceania » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:16 pm

This looks interesting. Can someone link the IC so i can read it a bit since for some reason i cant find it .
A bunch of Canadian astronaut's who decided for some reason they wanted independence.Im also the president of the Union of Liberal Nations

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Spaceania
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Founded: Jan 06, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spaceania » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:18 pm

Spaceania wrote:This looks interesting. Can someone link the IC so i can read it a bit since for some reason i cant find it .

Never-mind im just an idiot lol
A bunch of Canadian astronaut's who decided for some reason they wanted independence.Im also the president of the Union of Liberal Nations

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White Bluff
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby White Bluff » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:41 pm

I feel like Ernest and Vivian will not be seeing eye to eye anytime soon.
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North Dajao
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Ex-Nation

Postby North Dajao » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:47 pm

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Neighborhood name: Los Fidels
Town Hall representative: Alejandro Garcia
Neighborhood description: Los Fidels is a primarily cuban and hispanic neighborhood. It is well known for it's significant LGBTQ+ population and an emerging hipster/artsy population. First settled by Cuban refugees, this neighborhood has grown to international acclaim with many prominent newspapers citing it's relative success as a major achievement of the last 50 years.
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Alozia
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Posts: 3196
Founded: Jul 02, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Alozia » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:24 pm

I have to ask - are we running a city state or a town inside a larger country?

I'm having a hard time believing that, let's say, the US government would be fine with one of their towns having these laws as the bedrock of it's very existence.
Last edited by Alozia on Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The United Artherian Federation
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Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The United Artherian Federation » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:31 pm

Alozia wrote:I have to ask - are we running a city state or a town inside a larger country?

I'm having a hard time believing that, let's say, the US government would be fine with one of their towns having these laws as the bedrock of it's very existence.

Yeah...

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Zjaum
Senator
 
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Founded: Oct 15, 2016
Corporate Bordello

Postby Zjaum » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:47 pm

Alozia wrote:I have to ask - are we running a city state or a town inside a larger country?

I'm having a hard time believing that, let's say, the US government would be fine with one of their towns having these laws as the bedrock of it's very existence.

The OP essentially stated that external or overarching government is nonexistent, meaning that we do, in fact, make rules in a vacuum. As for the location, there was an IC post placing the city in the American South, but it has since been retconned; our location could be anywhere on Earth.
I use my NationStates stats, because a population of billions/trillions and an economy of hundreds of trillions is totally viable, trust me.
But seriously, aside from the population and GDP, just assume that my NS stats are roughly accurate.

Support: Paleo-imperialism, conservatism, libertarianism, Christianity.
Against: Stupid people, resistance to industrial progress, alt-right, any form of government at or beyond socialism.

I hail from The League of Conservative Nations. Hearts unthawed, hearts unshaken!

Takaka Tar' Turayi,
The stars will be ours someday.

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The United Artherian Federation
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Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The United Artherian Federation » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:50 pm

Zjaum wrote:
Alozia wrote:I have to ask - are we running a city state or a town inside a larger country?

I'm having a hard time believing that, let's say, the US government would be fine with one of their towns having these laws as the bedrock of it's very existence.

The OP essentially stated that external or overarching government is nonexistent, meaning that we do, in fact, make rules in a vacuum. As for the location, there was an IC post placing the city in the American South, but it has since been retconned; our location could be anywhere on Earth.

Power vacuum...
Well damn. Time to do some crazy stuff.

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Duestchstien
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Founded: Nov 15, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Duestchstien » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:32 pm

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Nation: Duestchstien
Neighborhood name: Canary Park
Town Hall representative: Grover Denton
Neighborhood description: Located next door to down town, Canary Park represents a high and medium density part of the city comparable in sight to Brooklyn or Queens. The neighborhood is known for having a very mixed urban design, with the European style of the first floor being commercial, and the upper floors of buildings being residential. The area is also known for its numerous murals, public expression is popular here, and the neighborhood constantly hires artists to paint murals, with graffiti walls along alleys where non commissioned artists are free to make art. This part of the city grew just outside of downtown as a residential area for businessmen, since then it has become a middle class residential area as rich people move to better parts of the city. The neighborhood has good schools, and a lower crime rate than most of the city, with small robberies and carjackings being the worst crime gets in this part of the city.
Last edited by Duestchstien on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kazarogkai
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7828
Founded: Jan 27, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kazarogkai » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:36 am

Alozia wrote:I have to ask - are we running a city state or a town inside a larger country?

I'm having a hard time believing that, let's say, the US government would be fine with one of their towns having these laws as the bedrock of it's very existence.


Last I checked were pretty much in the aftermath of an apocalypse of sorts and as such have a blank slate to build upon. As my own app indicates I generally am under the assumption we are in the United States for the most part.
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Vienna Eliot
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Posts: 425
Founded: Feb 16, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vienna Eliot » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:39 pm

OP has been updated, everyone accepted.

Alozia wrote:I have to ask - are we running a city state or a town inside a larger country?

I'm having a hard time believing that, let's say, the US government would be fine with one of their towns having these laws as the bedrock of it's very existence.
I think it's North America? Could be Europe. The weather sometimes has me thinking we're in Australia or South America, though.

Whatever the case, our city itself will never have to interact with an outside world. So foreign affairs and a military are of no concern to us. Nor are higher governmental authorities really relevant.

I will say this — at some point we will probably like to have deeper backgrounds for our characters, maybe have multiple characters or change who we play. This will matter more for the general, slice-of-life IC, which will open after we have a charter. But anyway, I think it's reasonable for those characters' political backgrounds (if they have them) to have to do with neighborhood politics or higher up stuff. The same goes for if you want to retire a character. So I might say, my character Vienna used to be the County Recorder. And then when I want a new character, I can say Vienna decided to run for the State House.

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Alozia
Minister
 
Posts: 3196
Founded: Jul 02, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Alozia » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:39 pm

Vienna Eliot wrote:OP has been updated, everyone accepted.

Alozia wrote:I have to ask - are we running a city state or a town inside a larger country?

I'm having a hard time believing that, let's say, the US government would be fine with one of their towns having these laws as the bedrock of it's very existence.
I think it's North America? Could be Europe. The weather sometimes has me thinking we're in Australia or South America, though.

Whatever the case, our city itself will never have to interact with an outside world. So foreign affairs and a military are of no concern to us. Nor are higher governmental authorities really relevant.

I will say this — at some point we will probably like to have deeper backgrounds for our characters, maybe have multiple characters or change who we play. This will matter more for the general, slice-of-life IC, which will open after we have a charter. But anyway, I think it's reasonable for those characters' political backgrounds (if they have them) to have to do with neighborhood politics or higher up stuff. The same goes for if you want to retire a character. So I might say, my character Vienna used to be the County Recorder. And then when I want a new character, I can say Vienna decided to run for the State House.

It's not up to me to decide on such matters, but I would suggest that we establish that our city is in the United States. The name would fit well with the style of naming cities while still being original and the location is, despite the popular belief, still pretty vague. Certainly vague enough to leave us some room for flexibility and such. Establishing this location could also help us with realism and the fact that some rather questionable proposals are being put forward.
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Kazarogkai
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7828
Founded: Jan 27, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kazarogkai » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:48 pm

In the name of focus and closure I would like to request from the Op that only a part of my proposal be put up for vote for the moment, specifically only the legislature. That draft was meant as I stated as a draft for what the overall structure of the charter should be, it is not in iself a serious proposal. Only something that was meant to act as fodder overall. My actual proposal came in the form of the stuff I stated before specifically this stuff:

Kazarogkai wrote:
"And so I present to the assembled body before the proposal drawn up by me and mine prior to are trek to here. Though yes it is not perfect and yes I do understand that it is a bit incomplete still the overall basics are there. My proposal overall for the Charter of this Unified City is more or less a mirror of that of the New Jersey plan that was put forward during the creation of the United States Constitution. In general the structure is that of a confederation of are United Neighborhoods bound in oaths of defense, common foreign policy and trade with this bodies primary duty being that of coordinating body whose purpose is to unite us in times of need when necessary. My people have generally speaking done well on are own for the most part and as such generally speaking lack much interest in that of a stronger union with the likes of others outside are bounds being able to impose upon us at will. As such that will be a primary directive behind this charter. The maintaining of the Independence of the individual neighborhoods. Unto Structure:

The legislative, which shall henceforth be called the Senate, and by far the most important of the branches shall overall function in a manner reminiscent of that of a parliament minus a king of course. The Senate will be a unicameral body from where representation is based on dwelling whose powers will consist of: the ability to make laws related towards a foreign nature, draft domestic laws, settle disputes and coordinate resources between individual neighborhoods, enforce the law via the executive Small Council, call for national referendums to change the constitution, and finally those that are delegated to it by the individual neighborhoods. Neighborhoods shall have a delegation of representatives whose size is and selection is up to their discretion but who at the minimum must number approximately 2. Each neighborhood regardless of size shall receive 1 vote with the members of their delegation voting en block rather than as individuals similar to the Iroquois confederacy of old. Heading this body will be what will be known as the Speaker who shall in a sense function doubly in the role of Prime Minister of the executive. This will be an office chosen via appointment from the aforementioned body by all members and will be responsible to them as a whole being aloud to rule so long as they maintain the confidence of the Senate which shall be regularly tested every 6 months. In terms of law making when it comes to those of a foreign nature they require only a simple majority in order to bring it fourth. In contrast for domestic laws they may only raft them, with a simple majority, in order to bring it about though they require ratification from the neighborhoods themselves. The way it will work is when a domestic law has been drafted the draft will go before the individual neighborhoods who shall have the power to ratify the law within their own legislative bodies. When a neighborhood decides to ratify it becomes a law within their lands and from that point onward they are required to enforce via their courts. Once a strong majority of 3/4 of all neighborhoods decide to ratify said draft it becomes apart of what will be termed the All Law which all neighborhoods must follow at that point it is the duty of the Senate to enforce said law with all persons required to follow. In such way a the 51% will not be able to railroad and potentially enslave the remaining 49% and with it maintaining of the Independence of all.

In terms of executive power, that shall rest within what will be termed the Small Council consisting of the Speaker as mentioned before alongside various executive directors heading individual offices charged with handling different aspects of the legislative agenda like say Defense, or Foreign Trade, etc. They shall be chosen individually again via appointment by the Senate and responsible to said body being required to face confidence votes every 6 months. This is done in such a way as to prevent the creation of any sort of imperial presidency or other autocratic central offices and with it the corruption and tyranny that follows. As seen time and time again in the world before, the executive is by far the most prone to corruption and tyranny and hence must be kept in check at all times.

Finally The Judicial branch shall consist of various Supreme Courts alongside smaller courts handling and heading individual aspects of the law which shall be set forth via the creation of various law codes by the legislative and having the power to interpret the law in their manner. They shall consist of the following: Criminal, Civil, Military, and finally a Constitutional Court at the minimum. The first 3 shall shall in their role function as courts of last resort for those violating the laws of the land in contrast the final will function as a check on the legislative branch and have the power to interpret the constitution as needed and having the power to when needed to engage in a review and veto laws created by said legislative. They shall as such consist of 12 members each chosen via sortition from qualified applicants so as to prevent the politicization and corruption of this branch of government and to hopefully maintain their independence. Any decision they make as such is required to be unanimous."


To make it a bit easier I will format it into the form that you personally requested.
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The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism
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Posts: 1845
Founded: Aug 31, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:13 am

Was genuinely confused about the punctuation remark. Was it the possessive apostrophe? For some reason no matter how hard I try I always screw that up. :p

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Vienna Eliot
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 425
Founded: Feb 16, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vienna Eliot » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:14 am

The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism wrote:Was genuinely confused about the punctuation remark. Was it the possessive apostrophe? For some reason no matter how hard I try I always screw that up. :p

We all make mistakes, its it's okay.

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Zjaum
Senator
 
Posts: 3758
Founded: Oct 15, 2016
Corporate Bordello

Postby Zjaum » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:31 am

The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism wrote:Was genuinely confused about the punctuation remark. Was it the possessive apostrophe? For some reason no matter how hard I try I always screw that up. :p

It was. Everett’s just being a grump. If it’s a problem with automatic correction, there’s probably some setting that can fix that. If it’s grammatical confusion, “it’s” takes the place of “it is,” and if you can replace “it’s” with “it is” and still have it make sense, then you’re good. Otherwise, “its” is appropriate.
I use my NationStates stats, because a population of billions/trillions and an economy of hundreds of trillions is totally viable, trust me.
But seriously, aside from the population and GDP, just assume that my NS stats are roughly accurate.

Support: Paleo-imperialism, conservatism, libertarianism, Christianity.
Against: Stupid people, resistance to industrial progress, alt-right, any form of government at or beyond socialism.

I hail from The League of Conservative Nations. Hearts unthawed, hearts unshaken!

Takaka Tar' Turayi,
The stars will be ours someday.

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Kazarogkai
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7828
Founded: Jan 27, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kazarogkai » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:38 pm

If your wondering yes my guy is trying to imply he and his neighborhood intends on potentially leaving and not joining the current city. Just to add some tension to the discussion. One suggestion is that rather than having a simple majoritarian system for approving potential pieces of the proposed City Charter I would suggest some type of consensus model be adopted, that is typically how such things are done in order to keep everyone happy. Just a thought.
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military
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hippys
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liberals
philosophes(not counting Hobbes)
states rights
anarchist
people who annoy me
robots
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Vienna Eliot
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 425
Founded: Feb 16, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vienna Eliot » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:31 am

Let's hold elections this weekend, on the 17th and 18th. Voting can be in this thread over the course of 48 hours. That gives everyone four days (plus two on the election days) to roleplay campaigns and what not.

Members of the Hall will be automatically elected. You can roleplay multiple candidates in your neighborhood if you would like. And for now, elections to the Judiciary Recognition Commission will be purely IC, so no one will actually run for that.

We will hold elections for Mayor. If you have a character who would like to run for Mayor, please announce their candidacy in this thread.

Lastly, population updated. There are now 46,223 residents of Respite.

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The United Artherian Federation
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Posts: 1700
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The United Artherian Federation » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:38 pm

Time to censure all up in this joint.

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Kazarogkai
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7828
Founded: Jan 27, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kazarogkai » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:01 pm

I'm Still going to be posting up in the General IC and all just so you know, I guess that is where we could do the negotiating and the like from.
Centrist
Reactionary
Bigot
Conservationist
Communitarian
Georgist
Distributist
Corporatist
Nationalist
Teetotaler
Ancient weaponry
Politics
History in general
books
military
Fighting
Survivalism
Nature
Anthropology
hippys
drugs
criminals
liberals
philosophes(not counting Hobbes)
states rights
anarchist
people who annoy me
robots
1000 12 + 10
1100 18 + 15
1200 24 + 20
1300 24
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1500 48 + 15
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1800 144 + 40
1900 216 + 60
1950 432 + 120
2000 864 + 240

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Vienna Eliot
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 425
Founded: Feb 16, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vienna Eliot » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:53 pm

If there's still interest here, we'll do elections Saturday and Sunday (18th and 19th). So tomorrow (Friday the 17th) is the last day to declare your candidacy for Mayor if you're running. Please include the name of the character running as well, and maybe a brief bio.

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Zjaum
Senator
 
Posts: 3758
Founded: Oct 15, 2016
Corporate Bordello

Postby Zjaum » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:09 pm

Vienna Eliot wrote:If there's still interest here, we'll do elections Saturday and Sunday (18th and 19th). So tomorrow (Friday the 17th) is the last day to declare your candidacy for Mayor if you're running. Please include the name of the character running as well, and maybe a brief bio.

All righty! Is there an official announcement application? So far, I only recall one person actually running, and my character just thinking about it.
I use my NationStates stats, because a population of billions/trillions and an economy of hundreds of trillions is totally viable, trust me.
But seriously, aside from the population and GDP, just assume that my NS stats are roughly accurate.

Support: Paleo-imperialism, conservatism, libertarianism, Christianity.
Against: Stupid people, resistance to industrial progress, alt-right, any form of government at or beyond socialism.

I hail from The League of Conservative Nations. Hearts unthawed, hearts unshaken!

Takaka Tar' Turayi,
The stars will be ours someday.

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