1900: Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC-OPEN]

[Tracian Empire]

The map has been updated - but beware, due to the inactivity of some players, reservations had to be changed a little in order to accomodate the new players. Big changes to the map will also follow over the next days as we clearly determine who has to removed from the roleplay due to permanent inactivity.

[The V O I D]

I plan to post soon if the Dutch and French players don't post, to at least further the plot involving the Bulgarians.

[Tracian Empire]

Still here. Just taking a while with the post. Had to do a lot more reading than I thought I did, plus I'm kind of trying to plot out what I'll be doing for the next few posts, as it's mostly internal stuff.

And nice post for Ethiopia too! It's clear that you know your stuff when it comes to Ethiopian titles and internal issues, I had to use Google's help in order to understand what each of those words meant xD

I'll include an answer from Michael through the Logothete of the Drome in my next post.

[Pasong Tirad]

Still here. Just taking a while with the post. Had to do a lot more reading than I thought I did, plus I'm kind of trying to plot out what I'll be doing for the next few posts, as it's mostly internal stuff.

And nice post for Ethiopia too! It's clear that you know your stuff when it comes to Ethiopian titles and internal issues, I had to use Google's help in order to understand what each of those words meant xD

I'll include an answer from Michael through the Logothete of the Drome in my next post.

Oh man I had to read so much just for that post (and my app), you have no idea. It won't be long until I speak Amharic.

[Tracian Empire]

And nice post for Ethiopia too! It's clear that you know your stuff when it comes to Ethiopian titles and internal issues, I had to use Google's help in order to understand what each of those words meant xD

I'll include an answer from Michael through the Logothete of the Drome in my next post.

Oh man I had to read so much just for that post (and my app), you have no idea. It won't be long until I speak Amharic.

Well, Ethiopia is a very interesting country indeed, and doing some research can be really nice xD

And as for Michael's answer - he will basically agree to all of that, but the building of railways and roads will have to wait until the Exarch of Nubia manages to fully pacify his province.

[Pasong Tirad]

Oh man I had to read so much just for that post (and my app), you have no idea. It won't be long until I speak Amharic.

Well, Ethiopia is a very interesting country indeed, and doing some research can be really nice xD

And as for Michael's answer - he will basically agree to all of that, but the building of railways and roads will have to wait until the Exarch of Nubia manages to fully pacify his province.

Sounds good! I'll continue my research now for the upcoming Ethiopian Civil War, and will hopefully have a post up sooner than this last post took.

[Tracian Empire]

Well, Ethiopia is a very interesting country indeed, and doing some research can be really nice xD

And as for Michael's answer - he will basically agree to all of that, but the building of railways and roads will have to wait until the Exarch of Nubia manages to fully pacify his province.

Sounds good! I'll continue my research now for the upcoming Ethiopian Civil War, and will hopefully have a post up sooner than this last post took.

An Ethiopian Civil War? That will certainly be interesting!

The Roman position on that will be difficult to explain though. They would probably indirectly support Melnik - but the basic idea is that the Romans want to have a friendly regime in Ethiopia in order to secure a peaceful border there and to ensure that the Gulf of Aden is peaceful for trade going through the Suez.

[Pasong Tirad]

Sounds good! I'll continue my research now for the upcoming Ethiopian Civil War, and will hopefully have a post up sooner than this last post took.

An Ethiopian Civil War? That will certainly be interesting!

The Roman position on that will be difficult to explain though. They would probably indirectly support Melnik - but the basic idea is that the Romans want to have a friendly regime in Ethiopia in order to secure a peaceful border there and to ensure that the Gulf of Aden is peaceful for trade going through the Suez.

Yeah both sides will probably want their side to gain legitimacy by currying favor with the Byzantines. Right now things are pretty tense and both sides are trying to see where the battle lines are going to be drawn, but I'm still trying to figure out the basic outline of this conflict.

[Tracian Empire]

An Ethiopian Civil War? That will certainly be interesting!

The Roman position on that will be difficult to explain though. They would probably indirectly support Melnik - but the basic idea is that the Romans want to have a friendly regime in Ethiopia in order to secure a peaceful border there and to ensure that the Gulf of Aden is peaceful for trade going through the Suez.

Yeah both sides will probably want their side to gain legitimacy by currying favor with the Byzantines. Right now things are pretty tense and both sides are trying to see where the battle lines are going to be drawn, but I'm still trying to figure out the basic outline of this conflict.

Well, in theory, the Romans would probably support Menelik, since he is the ruling monarch and the Romans will give him that title of Basileus, recognizing him as the descendant and successor of the Kingdom of Akksum.

But, the Romans also want someone who would look away from the way in which they are trying to entrentch Roman Orthodoxy into Egypt, against the Copts, of course. Not in a violent way - but through colonization and Hellenization/Romanization.

[Raetia Secunda]

Hmm, I'm really not sure if the Romans would recognize the Persian leader as a Basileus.

Nice post though xD

And yeah, I would assume that the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem would block Marcionites from having access to the important places there and to relics like the True Cross.

Thanks! Hope it wasn't a bit ott with the mystery. I'll be following it on with a continuation of the three threads of the story soon.

At this stage I'm planning for the pilgrimage to Jerusalem to be harmless. I think the Orthodox barring them from something like the Holy Sepulchre would trigger some sort of crisis, though how seriously Shenariyah takes it we'll have to see. The Patriarch would be lobbying for some sort of action, though he'd be pushing against the neo political establishment of the PM that tried to stop the pilgrimage in the first place.

[Terminus Pheonix]

Still here, and still looking for allies against the Nordic influence in the Persian Gulf.

[Tracian Empire]

Hmm, I'm really not sure if the Romans would recognize the Persian leader as a Basileus.

Nice post though xD

And yeah, I would assume that the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem would block Marcionites from having access to the important places there and to relics like the True Cross.

Thanks! Hope it wasn't a bit ott with the mystery. I'll be following it on with a continuation of the three threads of the story soon.

At this stage I'm planning for the pilgrimage to Jerusalem to be harmless. I think the Orthodox barring them from something like the Holy Sepulchre would trigger some sort of crisis, though how seriously Shenariyah takes it we'll have to see. The Patriarch would be lobbying for some sort of action, though he'd be pushing against the neo political establishment of the PM that tried to stop the pilgrimage in the first place.

Well, as of right now, I do imagine that the relations between Persia and the ERE are rather frosty. Not because the Romans would have any intention to expand against the Persian state - but mainly because we don't have many historical reasons to be friendly. The Romans had an Eternal Peace with the Sassanids, so they probably consider the modern Persian dynasties to be barbaric and foreign - which is a point of view that would have developed from the Middle Ages. And the religion of this new Persia isn't making things any easier - it would be even more of a heresy to Orthodox eyes than the Monophysitism and Arianism that the Empire had to fight against in its early days.

Now, the policy of the new Basileus, Michael, seems to be focused on detente - but he is in Rome right now, he won't be able to control the reactions of the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem who will most likely be horrified by the idea of a pilgrimage of heretics. But, another thing that should be taken into account is that the Orthodox Church has been keeping a strong control over the Holy Sepulchre ever since they took over it during the Crusades.

[Plzen]

The Commonwealth has enough fires to put out right here at home and is no longer particularly able to meddle in east African affairs. Alas, all we can really do is arm the opposition with army-surplus small arms, which are a decade or two out of date but should be better than what local forces field. The broken relations between the Commonwealth and the regime at Ethiopia will have to be lived with. But you'd do well to keep in mind the Scandinavian soul...

The North does not forget.

The North does not forgive.



The Commonwealth will wash this national humiliation off her unblemished skin with the freely flowing blood our our enemies.

[Tracian Empire]

The Commonwealth has enough fires to put out right here at home and is no longer particularly able to meddle in east African affairs. Alas, all we can really do is arm the opposition with army-surplus small arms, which are a decade or two out of date but should be better than what local forces field. The broken relations between the Commonwealth and the regime at Ethiopia will have to be lived with. But you'd do well to keep in mind the Scandinavian soul...

The North does not forget.

The North does not forgive.



The Commonwealth will wash this national humiliation off her unblemished skin with the freely flowing blood our our enemies.

Well, I suppose that the Romans weren't overly delighted by the idea of Nordic influence in the Gulf of Aden and in East Africa, so while the war seems to have been short, the Romans might have sent a couple shipments of weapons to the Ethiopians back then, probably by mistake

[Raetia Secunda]

Thanks! Hope it wasn't a bit ott with the mystery. I'll be following it on with a continuation of the three threads of the story soon.

At this stage I'm planning for the pilgrimage to Jerusalem to be harmless. I think the Orthodox barring them from something like the Holy Sepulchre would trigger some sort of crisis, though how seriously Shenariyah takes it we'll have to see. The Patriarch would be lobbying for some sort of action, though he'd be pushing against the neo political establishment of the PM that tried to stop the pilgrimage in the first place.

Well, as of right now, I do imagine that the relations between Persia and the ERE are rather frosty. Not because the Romans would have any intention to expand against the Persian state - but mainly because we don't have many historical reasons to be friendly. The Romans had an Eternal Peace with the Sassanids, so they probably consider the modern Persian dynasties to be barbaric and foreign - which is a point of view that would have developed from the Middle Ages. And the religion of this new Persia isn't making things any easier - it would be even more of a heresy to Orthodox eyes than the Monophysitism and Arianism that the Empire had to fight against in its early days.

Now, the policy of the new Basileus, Michael, seems to be focused on detente - but he is in Rome right now, he won't be able to control the reactions of the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem who will most likely be horrified by the idea of a pilgrimage of heretics. But, another thing that should be taken into account is that the Orthodox Church has been keeping a strong control over the Holy Sepulchre ever since they took over it during the Crusades.

Rome and Persia may not be allies, but I'm sure the neo-politicians of Shenariyah would find much common ground for cooperation with Constantinople - with the challenge from Russia and from the Arabian Peninsula (be it Arab or Nordic) as well as regional economic issues. But yes, religiously we're as heretic as you can get, Marcionism being almost the first heresy. But the Patriarch would certainly try and use such an incident to leverage greater influence in Shenariyah, at the expense of the Royal Council. So basically the RC is your friend and the Marcionite Church your enemy

Still here, and still looking for allies against the Nordic influence in the Persian Gulf.

I do want to get involved in the region, hence the naval buildup in Orkoe (Uruk), though I'm not sure how or even on which side. What is the situation like there, you're preparing to retake the Nordic Concession?

[Pasong Tirad]

The Commonwealth has enough fires to put out right here at home and is no longer particularly able to meddle in east African affairs. Alas, all we can really do is arm the opposition with army-surplus small arms, which are a decade or two out of date but should be better than what local forces field. The broken relations between the Commonwealth and the regime at Ethiopia will have to be lived with. But you'd do well to keep in mind the Scandinavian soul...

The North does not forget.

The North does not forgive.



The Commonwealth will wash this national humiliation off her unblemished skin with the freely flowing blood our our enemies.

Well, I suppose that the Romans weren't overly delighted by the idea of Nordic influence in the Gulf of Aden and in East Africa, so while the war seems to have been short, the Romans might have sent a couple shipments of weapons to the Ethiopians back then, probably by mistake

"Whoops, it looks like I accidentally left a thousand rifles and a million bullets in an Ethiopian port. Oh well."

Still here, and still looking for allies against the Nordic influence in the Persian Gulf.

You sound like a good man to be acquainted with.

[Tracian Empire]

Well, as of right now, I do imagine that the relations between Persia and the ERE are rather frosty. Not because the Romans would have any intention to expand against the Persian state - but mainly because we don't have many historical reasons to be friendly. The Romans had an Eternal Peace with the Sassanids, so they probably consider the modern Persian dynasties to be barbaric and foreign - which is a point of view that would have developed from the Middle Ages. And the religion of this new Persia isn't making things any easier - it would be even more of a heresy to Orthodox eyes than the Monophysitism and Arianism that the Empire had to fight against in its early days.

Now, the policy of the new Basileus, Michael, seems to be focused on detente - but he is in Rome right now, he won't be able to control the reactions of the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem who will most likely be horrified by the idea of a pilgrimage of heretics. But, another thing that should be taken into account is that the Orthodox Church has been keeping a strong control over the Holy Sepulchre ever since they took over it during the Crusades.

Rome and Persia may not be allies, but I'm sure the neo-politicians of Shenariyah would find much common ground for cooperation with Constantinople - with the challenge from Russia and from the Arabian Peninsula (be it Arab or Nordic) as well as regional economic issues. But yes, religiously we're as heretic as you can get, Marcionism being almost the first heresy. But the Patriarch would certainly try and use such an incident to leverage greater influence in Shenariyah, at the expense of the Royal Council. So basically the RC is your friend and the Marcionite Church your enemy

Still here, and still looking for allies against the Nordic influence in the Persian Gulf.

I do want to get involved in the region, hence the naval buildup in Orkoe (Uruk), though I'm not sure how or even on which side. What is the situation like there, you're preparing to retake the Nordic Concession?

That is true, we can find common ground. But many back in Constantinople are still overly conservative, and perhaps even a bit arrogant. While they wouldn't like the Republican part of Russia, they would try to stress out the importance of Orthodox unity, and stuff like that, and they might also try to push Roman interests in Arabia in front of anything else. But there are also those who want to relax Roman-Persian relations, those who dislike the growing power of Russia, and especially those who believe that Western Europeans should be kept out from the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Aden.

But I tried to detail how the Romans see Persia in order to explain that there would still be many people who will personally dislike the Persians, from those who would consider them barbarians, to those horrified by their heresy, and to those who consider the Persian King (I'm still not sure if the Romans will recognize the King of Kings part) to be weak for being influenced by a church and by a royal council. The Emperor in Constantinople tries to take the opinions of both the Senate and the Logothetes into account, but in the end, he does still rule like an autocrat.

[Tracian Empire]

Well, I suppose that the Romans weren't overly delighted by the idea of Nordic influence in the Gulf of Aden and in East Africa, so while the war seems to have been short, the Romans might have sent a couple shipments of weapons to the Ethiopians back then, probably by mistake

"Whoops, it looks like I accidentally left a thousand rifles and a million bullets in an Ethiopian port. Oh well."

Well, Constantinople can't be blamed if one or more of the three African Exarchs accidentally send weapons to a country xD

[Raetia Secunda]

Persia is in a bit of a pickle in Arabia. In the event of a Nordic-Arabian war, we would definitely be looking to improve our position in the Gulf, but is that through expelling the Nordics or helping them to balance out power in the area? It would also depend on how Constantinople would react.

And yeah, if Nordic plays a heavy hand in both Arabia and Ethiopia we would be inclined to expelling Western European oppressors

[Tracian Empire]

Persia is in a bit of a pickle in Arabia. In the event of a Nordic-Arabian war, we would definitely be looking to improve our position in the Gulf, but is that through expelling the Nordics or helping them to balance out power in the area? It would also depend on how Constantinople would react.

And yeah, if Nordic plays a heavy hand in both Arabia and Ethiopia we would be inclined to expelling Western European oppressors

Well, Constantinople would also be in a bit of a pickle. On the one hand, the Romans wouldn't like the idea of the Nords expanding their lands there - but then again, trade with the Nordic Commonwealth would be nice. And on the other hand, it's not like the Romans like Arabia too much - talks of a Caliphate in the Arabian Peninsula disgust those who have read books about the empire's old history, and it makes the Roman citizens look angrily at those Muslims who still live in Roman themes.

[Plzen]

And yeah, if Nordic plays a heavy hand in both Arabia and Ethiopia we would be inclined to expelling Western European oppressors

It's very unlikely that Norden will be pushed towards taking a heavy stance in Arabia. With its interests bound in every corner of the globe it simply can no longer afford the grand colonial and imperialist ventures of centuries past.

Norden has very little to lose throwing dice in East Africa, but in Arabia where it already has an established presence and interconnected regional interests, it would be much more interested in the preservation of the status quo.

---

Well, Constantinople would also be in a bit of a pickle. On the one hand, the Romans wouldn't like the idea of the Nords expanding their lands there - but then again, trade with the Nordic Commonwealth would be nice. And on the other hand, it's not like the Romans like Arabia too much - talks of a Caliphate in the Arabian Peninsula disgust those who have read books about the empire's old history, and it makes the Roman citizens look angrily at those Muslims who still live in Roman themes.

With regards Rome, the Commonwealth's home and colonial sentiments differ strongly. Popular opinion in Stockholm might lump Rome in with all those other impoverished monarchies in that general region, but businessmen in the Indian Ocean strongly appreciates Rome being a counterweight to both Persia and Arabia (and, hence, security for the Gulf Principalities), ease-of-business through the Suez Canal, and just the cultural compatibility of European Christendom.

[Raetia Secunda]

Persia is in a bit of a pickle in Arabia. In the event of a Nordic-Arabian war, we would definitely be looking to improve our position in the Gulf, but is that through expelling the Nordics or helping them to balance out power in the area? It would also depend on how Constantinople would react.

And yeah, if Nordic plays a heavy hand in both Arabia and Ethiopia we would be inclined to expelling Western European oppressors

Well, Constantinople would also be in a bit of a pickle. On the one hand, the Romans wouldn't like the idea of the Nords expanding their lands there - but then again, trade with the Nordic Commonwealth would be nice. And on the other hand, it's not like the Romans like Arabia too much - talks of a Caliphate in the Arabian Peninsula disgust those who have read books about the empire's old history, and it makes the Roman citizens look angrily at those Muslims who still live in Roman themes.

I like how everyone in the ERE still see foreign affairs through an early medieval lens tbh I haven't thought through enough about the Muslim minority - what's their situation in the ERE? I should probably include them in somewhere in Orkoe (Persian Mesopotamia) at least. Otherwise I assume they only live in the Arabian Peninsula. Incidentally, is Nordic of any help to the ERE in Europe?

[Raetia Secunda]

And yeah, if Nordic plays a heavy hand in both Arabia and Ethiopia we would be inclined to expelling Western European oppressors

It's very unlikely that Norden will be pushed towards taking a heavy stance in Arabia. With its interests bound in every corner of the globe it simply can no longer afford the grand colonial and imperialist ventures of centuries past.

Norden has very little to lose throwing dice in East Africa, but in Arabia where it already has an established presence and interconnected regional interests, it would be much more interested in the preservation of the status quo.

---

Well, Constantinople would also be in a bit of a pickle. On the one hand, the Romans wouldn't like the idea of the Nords expanding their lands there - but then again, trade with the Nordic Commonwealth would be nice. And on the other hand, it's not like the Romans like Arabia too much - talks of a Caliphate in the Arabian Peninsula disgust those who have read books about the empire's old history, and it makes the Roman citizens look angrily at those Muslims who still live in Roman themes.

With regards Rome, the Commonwealth's home and colonial sentiments differ strongly. Popular opinion in Stockholm might lump Rome in with all those other impoverished monarchies in that general region, but businessmen in the Indian Ocean strongly appreciates Rome being a counterweight to both Persia and Arabia (and, hence, security for the Gulf Principalities), ease-of-business through the Suez Canal, and just the cultural compatibility of European Christendom.

*feels the need to make Persia useful* It's true, everyone needs the Suez so relations with the ERE are important to all. The Gulf hasn't yet developed into what it is today, because of oil I suppose.

Btw, is the Russia player active?

[Pasong Tirad]

It's very unlikely that Norden will be pushed towards taking a heavy stance in Arabia. With its interests bound in every corner of the globe it simply can no longer afford the grand colonial and imperialist ventures of centuries past.

Norden has very little to lose throwing dice in East Africa, but in Arabia where it already has an established presence and interconnected regional interests, it would be much more interested in the preservation of the status quo.

---

With regards Rome, the Commonwealth's home and colonial sentiments differ strongly. Popular opinion in Stockholm might lump Rome in with all those other impoverished monarchies in that general region, but businessmen in the Indian Ocean strongly appreciates Rome being a counterweight to both Persia and Arabia (and, hence, security for the Gulf Principalities), ease-of-business through the Suez Canal, and just the cultural compatibility of European Christendom.

*feels the need to make Persia useful* It's true, everyone needs the Suez so relations with the ERE are important to all. The Gulf hasn't yet developed into what it is today, because of oil I suppose.

Btw, is the Russia player active?

We're just pawns to them, Persia. Pawns in their global war for dominance.

[Tracian Empire]

Well, Constantinople would also be in a bit of a pickle. On the one hand, the Romans wouldn't like the idea of the Nords expanding their lands there - but then again, trade with the Nordic Commonwealth would be nice. And on the other hand, it's not like the Romans like Arabia too much - talks of a Caliphate in the Arabian Peninsula disgust those who have read books about the empire's old history, and it makes the Roman citizens look angrily at those Muslims who still live in Roman themes.

With regards Rome, the Commonwealth's home and colonial sentiments differ strongly. Popular opinion in Stockholm might lump Rome in with all those other impoverished monarchies in that general region, but businessmen in the Indian Ocean strongly appreciates Rome being a counterweight to both Persia and Arabia (and, hence, security for the Gulf Principalities), ease-of-business through the Suez Canal, and just the cultural compatibility of European Christendom.

I just want to mention one thing - Rome is most certainly not impoverished. Now, I'm far from being an economic expert, but the Eastern Roman state is a regional economic power in its own way, and while most of its Middle Eastern provinces are still relatively underdeveloped, its core regions are already industrialized, and the state as a whole is modernizing. So while some people would still disconsider the Roman state because of the many medieval and even ancient elements that exist in its way to be, and because the Romans as a whole still reject many of the Western ways, for those willing to look beyond their prejudice, valuable and mutually productive business deals could be made. And while the Romans still look at foreign influence negatively, securing the passing through the Suez canal of foreign ships, securing the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden and ensuring the ease of trade with foreign countries are all important objectives of the empire.