1810 Age of Imperialism, Empires and Expansion OOC [OPEN]

[Duestchstien]

Russia owning Manchuria sours Japanese-Russian relations as well, just saying. Also, yeah, the Europeans don't want you strong China. They want you subjugated, and beaten down. They'll get their trade right, and all the rights to touch you as they please when I'm done.

I doubt Europeans much want any strong potential rival, and a Japan with Chinese territory is def a powerful competitor, at least in Asia. Would they not rather keep either nation from gaining power by keeping the Japanese penned up in their Island and the Chinese backwards and savage through their own unfair treaties? Why would they help you gain power in Asia when they can probably just take it for themselves without Japanese aid or involvement?

Also, since we are able to just loosely base our nations off of irl states or completely make 'em up, is there to stop me from having my nation have already undergone initial reforms to government / institutions? Not full westernization or anything but just some strengthening of government.

Because the Europeans have their hands tied fighting each other, if some one else can do it for them then let them do it. Besides, Japan is an island nation with like 60-70 million people which looks a lot friendly than a giant nation with nearly a billion people.

[Duestchstien]

We'd be willing to help supply Japan in turn for the port of Macau, or perhaps help train or even send educators and scientists to help Japan advance quickly.

We already have all that good stuff, and Macau is something that a Europe nation might want. However I'll keep you in mind.

We'd be willing to send ships, to help your navy in its work. The more the merrier right.

[The Brand New Salvatagard Republic]

What did I do that's wrong?

Declared war on UK

Besides thinking like an Imperialist German, whats wrong with doing that? I can easily win once I get my Economy back up so I can train my soldiers better.

[Alaroma]

Russia owning Manchuria sours Japanese-Russian relations as well, just saying. Also, yeah, the Europeans don't want you strong China. They want you subjugated, and beaten down. They'll get their trade right, and all the rights to touch you as they please when I'm done.

I doubt Europeans much want any strong potential rival, and a Japan with Chinese territory is def a powerful competitor, at least in Asia. Would they not rather keep either nation from gaining power by keeping the Japanese penned up in their Island and the Chinese backwards and savage through their own unfair treaties? Why would they help you gain power in Asia when they can probably just take it for themselves without Japanese aid or involvement?

Also, since we are able to just loosely base our nations off of irl states or completely make 'em up, is there to stop me from having my nation have already undergone initial reforms to government / institutions? Not full westernization or anything but just some strengthening of government.

Because on the down low I basically do what the Europeans ask of me, sell them shit cheap, and in help them get lands that they want in Asia. I'm an errand boy, who has no interest in challenging the Europeans. I work with them, and people tend to just like Japan. It's lit, I have good relations with France and GB who should honestly just h8fucc, but they just want to h8 each other.

[The Hierophancy]

I doubt Europeans much want any strong potential rival, and a Japan with Chinese territory is def a powerful competitor, at least in Asia. Would they not rather keep either nation from gaining power by keeping the Japanese penned up in their Island and the Chinese backwards and savage through their own unfair treaties? Why would they help you gain power in Asia when they can probably just take it for themselves without Japanese aid or involvement?

Also, since we are able to just loosely base our nations off of irl states or completely make 'em up, is there to stop me from having my nation have already undergone initial reforms to government / institutions? Not full westernization or anything but just some strengthening of government.

Because the Europeans have their hands tied fighting each other, if some one else can do it for them then let them do it. Besides, Japan is an island nation with like 60-70 million people which looks a lot friendly than a giant nation with nearly a billion people.

Aye, but China is already savage and backwards - easy pickings, as would have been demonstrated by the Russian conquests in Manchuria. A Japan with Qing land goes from a relatively advanced if small power in Asia to a native empire capable of exerting far more influence in Asia than any of the European powers. Would the European nations not rather just accept the trade rights they fought for in the first place, instead of placing their bets on an invading force from a nation they consider less threatening? Would this not simply risk any hope of a bloodless entrance into trade with China and perhaps risk any influence in China at all? It seems to me the more pragmatic choice is to flex your muscles and accept the concessions of what is to be a much more amiable and less isolationist Chinese Empire whilst keeping them in check through unfair trade deals and the threat of supporting rebels or Japanese.

[Alaroma]

We already have all that good stuff, and Macau is something that a Europe nation might want. However I'll keep you in mind.

We'd be willing to send ships, to help your navy in its work. The more the merrier right.

Ohhhhh, so like the second Opium War where France and GB were bros and gang banged China like comrades?

[The Hierophancy]

Anyway, I'm fine with being gangbanged so long as y'all don't go overboard and give me to Japan / carve me into little pieces - I think I'd like to become glorious Heavenly Kingdom, which would require sufficient shaming of Qing invaders

[Duestchstien]

Because the Europeans have their hands tied fighting each other, if some one else can do it for them then let them do it. Besides, Japan is an island nation with like 60-70 million people which looks a lot friendly than a giant nation with nearly a billion people.

Aye, but China is already savage and backwards - easy pickings, as would have been demonstrated by the Russian conquests in Manchuria. A Japan with Qing land goes from a relatively advanced if small power in Asia to a native empire capable of exerting far more influence in Asia than any of the European powers. Would the European nations not rather just accept the trade rights they fought for in the first place, instead of placing their bets on an invading force from a nation they consider less threatening? Would this not simply risk any hope of a bloodless entrance into trade with China and perhaps risk any influence in China at all? It seems to me the more pragmatic choice is to flex your muscles and accept the concessions of what is to be a much more amiable and less isolationist Chinese Empire whilst keeping them in check through unfair trade deals and the threat of supporting rebels or Japanese.

I think your missing the point, the Europeans just want a couple of ports, not complete control over Asia, if they can get those ports with out losing a single man than that's a good deal.

[Alaroma]

Anyway, I'm fine with being gangbanged so long as y'all don't go overboard and give me to Japan / carve me into little pieces - I think I'd like to become glorious Heavenly Kingdom, which would require sufficient shaming of Qing invaders

I obviously won't be taking all of you, I just plan to take what Japan did IRL, and give the Europeans some smaller stuff they want depending on what that is. Anywho, turn around when Korea falls, bend over when I come a knocking to you next.

[The Hierophancy]

Aye, but China is already savage and backwards - easy pickings, as would have been demonstrated by the Russian conquests in Manchuria. A Japan with Qing land goes from a relatively advanced if small power in Asia to a native empire capable of exerting far more influence in Asia than any of the European powers. Would the European nations not rather just accept the trade rights they fought for in the first place, instead of placing their bets on an invading force from a nation they consider less threatening? Would this not simply risk any hope of a bloodless entrance into trade with China and perhaps risk any influence in China at all? It seems to me the more pragmatic choice is to flex your muscles and accept the concessions of what is to be a much more amiable and less isolationist Chinese Empire whilst keeping them in check through unfair trade deals and the threat of supporting rebels or Japanese.

I think your missing the point, the Europeans just want a couple of ports, not complete control over Asia, if they can get those ports with out losing a single man than that's a good deal.

Yeah but you can probably get the rights you want for those ports through simple negotiating and threatening instead of rolling the dice by backing the Japanese, which could either result in basically the same outcome w/ China hating your guts forever or Europeans being forever banned from every Chinese port along with extra hate. My point is that the reason you want these ports - domination over Asian trade - could and probably would be threatened by a very strong Japan, as you would mostly be operating in Asia just because they let you, and given time they could go from being regional power in Asia to a global power able to threaten European dominance elsewhere.

[Duestchstien]

I think your missing the point, the Europeans just want a couple of ports, not complete control over Asia, if they can get those ports with out losing a single man than that's a good deal.

Yeah but you can probably get the rights you want for those ports through simple negotiating and threatening instead of rolling the dice by backing the Japanese, which could either result in basically the same outcome w/ China hating your guts forever or Europeans being forever banned from every Chinese port along with extra hate. My point is that the reason you want these ports - domination over Asian trade - could and probably would be threatened by a very strong Japan, as you would mostly be operating in Asia just because they let you, and given time they could go from being regional power in Asia to a global power able to threaten European dominance elsewhere.

See what I'm saying is, here in the Andes Republic we have a population just over 7 and a half million people, our military is under 200,000 strong and we have to fight big empires like Spain. I still want to sell my goods to china and get Chinese resources to help my economy, and if there's a way I can do that without losing any man then that's a miracle, besides let's say we take the Chinese deal, well now they basically control trade, and they could still hate our guts. And what's the problem with your ally becoming a massive empire, I like having strong allies.

[The Hierophancy]

Yeah but you can probably get the rights you want for those ports through simple negotiating and threatening instead of rolling the dice by backing the Japanese, which could either result in basically the same outcome w/ China hating your guts forever or Europeans being forever banned from every Chinese port along with extra hate. My point is that the reason you want these ports - domination over Asian trade - could and probably would be threatened by a very strong Japan, as you would mostly be operating in Asia just because they let you, and given time they could go from being regional power in Asia to a global power able to threaten European dominance elsewhere.

See what I'm saying is, here in the Andes Republic we have a population just over 7 and a half million people, our military is under 200,000 strong and we have to fight big empires like Spain. I still want to sell my goods to china and get Chinese resources to help my economy, and if there's a way I can do that without losing any man then that's a miracle, besides let's say we take the Chinese deal, well now they basically control trade, and they could still hate our guts. And what's the problem with your ally becoming a massive empire, I like having strong allies.

Accepting the Chinese deal would get you the trade you wanted without having to take a risk by betting on Japan in a conflict they could lose and which would best case scenario end with similar results to just opening up China's ports through diplomacy or intimidation. A large ally is nice, but not all alliances last forever, and Japan probably won't be a little puppet / european bitchboy forever. A stronger Japan shortens the time it takes for them to become powerful enough where they don't have to listen to the Europeans, allowing them to do things like compete for Asian colonial territory, set trade restrictions of their own, etc. For the Andeans, who probably aren't too involved in Asia, this probably wouldn't be much of a problem, but the threat or possibility of another power competing on equal ground in asia probably isn't great for nations like the UK, France, Spain and the Netherlands, all of whom are currently vying for control of Asian trade and colonies.

[Chewion]

Ok.

Russia owning Manchuria sours Japanese-Russian relations as well, just saying. Also, yeah, the Europeans don't want you strong China. They want you subjugated, and beaten down. They'll get their trade right, and all the rights to touch you as they please when I'm done.

I own IRL Russian Manchuria. The real Manchuria that Japan held and wants is not under my control.

[Alaroma]

See what I'm saying is, here in the Andes Republic we have a population just over 7 and a half million people, our military is under 200,000 strong and we have to fight big empires like Spain. I still want to sell my goods to china and get Chinese resources to help my economy, and if there's a way I can do that without losing any man then that's a miracle, besides let's say we take the Chinese deal, well now they basically control trade, and they could still hate our guts. And what's the problem with your ally becoming a massive empire, I like having strong allies.

Accepting the Chinese deal would get you the trade you wanted without having to take a risk by betting on Japan in a conflict they could lose and which would best case scenario end with similar results to just opening up China's ports through diplomacy or intimidation. A large ally is nice, but not all alliances last forever, and Japan probably won't be a little puppet / european bitchboy forever. A stronger Japan shortens the time it takes for them to become powerful enough where they don't have to listen to the Europeans, allowing them to do things like compete for Asian colonial territory, set trade restrictions of their own, etc. For the Andeans, who probably aren't too involved in Asia, this probably wouldn't be much of a problem, but the threat or possibility of another power competing on equal ground in asia probably isn't great for nations like the UK, France, Spain and the Netherlands, all of whom are currently vying for control of Asian trade and colonies.

Wrong, I have a very healthy fear of the white man you will never understand. My ass got smacked so hard in the last version of this RP, I'm going to let them get clay. I'm also not interfering with any of their interests with my intrests.

[The Hierophancy]

Accepting the Chinese deal would get you the trade you wanted without having to take a risk by betting on Japan in a conflict they could lose and which would best case scenario end with similar results to just opening up China's ports through diplomacy or intimidation. A large ally is nice, but not all alliances last forever, and Japan probably won't be a little puppet / european bitchboy forever. A stronger Japan shortens the time it takes for them to become powerful enough where they don't have to listen to the Europeans, allowing them to do things like compete for Asian colonial territory, set trade restrictions of their own, etc. For the Andeans, who probably aren't too involved in Asia, this probably wouldn't be much of a problem, but the threat or possibility of another power competing on equal ground in asia probably isn't great for nations like the UK, France, Spain and the Netherlands, all of whom are currently vying for control of Asian trade and colonies.

Wrong, I have a very healthy fear of the white man you will never understand. My ass got smacked so hard in the last version of this RP, I'm going to let them get clay. I'm also not interfering with any of their interests with my intrests.

Welp, have fun on yer belly I suppose. Glorious Qing and / or successor states will have to stand up to the dirty European barbarians.

[Alaroma]

Wrong, I have a very healthy fear of the white man you will never understand. My ass got smacked so hard in the last version of this RP, I'm going to let them get clay. I'm also not interfering with any of their interests with my intrests.

Welp, have fun on yer belly I suppose. Glorious Qing and / or successor states will have to stand up to the dirty European barbarians.

What did you say about then Europeans? This is a Causis Beli to defend our Friends Honor. WAR.

[The Hierophancy]

Welp, have fun on yer belly I suppose. Glorious Qing and / or successor states will have to stand up to the dirty European barbarians.

What did you say about then Europeans? This is a Causis Beli to defend our Friends Honor. WAR.

I mean, uh, superior European masters who have imposed glorious and just hegemony over the humble peoples of Asia (Amen)

[Da Klan]

What did you say about then Europeans? This is a Causis Beli to defend our Friends Honor. WAR.

I mean, uh, superior European masters who have imposed glorious and just hegemony over the humble peoples of Asia (Amen)

Pssst. Hey kiddo. Yuo want some




Polish missionaries?

[Alaroma]

I mean, uh, superior European masters who have imposed glorious and just hegemony over the humble peoples of Asia (Amen)

Pssst. Hey kiddo. Yuo want some




Polish missionaries?

I do, give me some.

[Hothnia]

I just wanted to ask, in my next post, is the fall of Alexandria valid to be entailed?

(I'll get Protectorate thing up for you next post Skarten)

[Hothnia]

Wrong, I have a very healthy fear of the white man you will never understand. My ass got smacked so hard in the last version of this RP, I'm going to let them get clay. I'm also not interfering with any of their interests with my intrests.

Welp, have fun on yer belly I suppose. Glorious Qing and / or successor states will have to stand up to the dirty European barbarians.

Or you make a deal with me and become a Protectorate of the a Empire like India

[Nuverikstan]

I just wanted to ask, in my next post, is the fall of Alexandria valid to be entailed?

(I'll get Protectorate thing up for you next post Skarten)

Yes, Alexandria fell.

[The Hierophancy]

Were percussion caps invented like 10 years earlier in this rp or something? I thought they came into use around like 1820? And why does everyone have rifles as their primary armament?

[Nuverikstan]

Were percussion caps invented like 10 years earlier in this rp or something? I thought they came into use around like 1820?

Crap, I forgot the time period. Yeah sure, just say they were.

[The Hierophancy]

Nation name: Great Qing

National Ideology: Constitutional Monarchism, Isolationism

Nation's Leader(s): The Jiaqing Emperor, Chancellor Xue Tiande

National Government Type: Absolute Monarchy (Chinese Bureaucracy)

National history: The second "foreigners" to claim the Mandate of Heaven, the Manchu Qing invaded and ceased China in the 17th century, smashing the weakened Ming dynasty and restoring China as overlord of a great Asian hegemony, ruling over hundreds of millions and exacting tribute from even proud Japan. This period of strength and prosperity would not last, however, was not to last. Over time the Qing government began to decay as infighting became more and more common, weakening its ability to enforce the rule of law. This, coupled with laws suppressing the Han majority, incredible levels of corruption, and rampant, dangerous overpopulation led to considerable unrest among the Han Chinese. The Second Sino-Russian War, which involved a complete reversal of Treaty of Nerchinsk and Russian annexation of many Chinese border territories. With the myth of Manchu military invincibility shattered by the Russians, many Han Chinese saw an opportunity to expel the tyrannical usurpers, resulting in the White Lotus Rebellion breaking out in 1774. For over 32 years the disorganized but numerous peasant rebels fought against the ill supplied and weakened Qing army, and despite a series of major and bloody battles, neither side was able to gain the upper hand. After the death of the rebellions first leader, self proclaimed emperor Wang Lun, the more pragmatic Xue Tiande managed to take control of many of the rebel armies, and thanks to his leadership the war weary rebels managed to make significant territorial gains, capturing a series of important Qing cities and fortresses. By 1802, however, the experienced core of mutineers driving the White Lotus advance were nearly all dead, and the remaining militia infantry were largely unwilling to attack. For another 4 years there was an uneasy and brutal stalemate, with Qing counter attacks retaking much of the land they had lost. However, in June of 1806, Xue Tiande managed to capture Tianjin. With the rebels nearly at the Imperial doorstep, the Jiaqing Emperor finally reached out to Tiande, offering to enter peace negotiations. His own forces tired and near breaking, Tiande agreed. A ceasefire was declared, and after weeks of negotiation and debate, the Qing and Han leadership agreed to the Treaty of Peking, establishing a constitution limiting the Emperor's power, protecting Han interests, reinstating a number of Han nobles as rulers of traditionally Chinese fiefdoms, and finally establishing the Guomin Dahuì, a congress of prominent Han noblemen, merchants and local leaders that would advise the Emperor with the Chancellor (elected by members of the Dahui) as it's leader. The compromise would only end up satisfying nobody, with the old conservative Manchu ruling class outraged at the Imperial concessions, the military upset with a lack of representation in the Dahui, and the Han people angry at both the continued reign of the Manchu invaders and the fact that the common folk received only pain, suffering and death from the war. Now, in the face of increasing European influence, a rising Japanese threat, and mass unrest, China is disunited, weakened, and rife with unrest.

Language: Manchu, Mandarin, Mongolian, Tibetan

National Religion: Confucianism, Heaven Worship (Various religions tolerated, Christianity outlawed)

National Race/Culture/Identity: Manchu, Han

Territory (Consult the link to the map on the OP): Modern day China, Mongolia (Vietnam/Tonking, Burma, Siam, Laos, Nepal and Korea as Tributary States / Vassals)

Capital City: Peking (Beijing)

Population: 357,000,000


MILITARY STATISTICS

Head General: The Jianqing Emperor

Generals Staff:
8 Banner Generals (Bordered Yellow, Plain Yellow, Plain White, Plain Red, Bordered White, Bordered Red, Plain Blue, Bordered Blue)
General Yue Zhongqi of the Green Standard Army


Military strength:
1,060,000 Men

1. List the Branches of your Military (Marines, Army, Navy, Special Units, Cavalry, etc.) and their Manpower Size:
Banner Armies: 160,000 (96,000 Musketeers) Infantrymen, 25,000 Cavalrymen
Green Standard Army: 900,000 (~450,000 Musketeers), 20,000 Cavalrymen
Imperial Qing Navy: 58,240 Sailors

2. List size of naval forces (Ship wise, state the Manpower of your navy in Number 1), if any:

70-90 sailors per ship

Small War Junks (6-15 Cannons): 190
Medium War Junks (15-25 Cannons): 105
Large War Junks (30-40 Cannons): 50


3. List amount of artillery, if any: ~500 Smooth-bore Cannons, 20 "Mortars"

ARMAMENT


Infantry:

Primary Weapon:(You can use a real world weapon, make your own, or rename a real world weapon): Various model of Melee Weapon, Flintlock Muskets

Secondary Weapon:(You can use a real world weapon, make your own, or rename a real world weapon): Various models of Swords, Bows

Melee Weapon: Various

Uniform:(Please Provide Pictures or Description)

Pack gear: (Rations, Ammo, Tools, etc.) Generally a few days worth of rations, ~ 12 shots

Greatest Strengths: Numbers, Combat Experience

Greatest Weaknesses: Poorly Trained, Bad Discipline / Organization

Specialty:(entrenching, anti cavalry, fast reload, etc.) Dying


Cavalry:

Primary Weapon: (You can use a real world weapon, make your own, or rename a real world weapon) Lance, Flintlock Musket

Secondary Weapon: (You can use a real world weapon, make your own, or rename a real world weapon) Composite Bow

Melee Weapon: Lance, Saber

Uniform: (Please provide picture or Description)

Pack gear: (Rations, Ammo, Tools, etc.) Ammo

Greatest Strengths: Fast moving, Marksmen

Greatest Weaknesses: Lightly armored

Specialty:(entrenching, anti cavalry, fast reload, etc.) Harassment


Artillery:

Cannon Type(s): Zimu (1/2 Pounder), Wei Yuanjiang (3 Pounder)

Mortar Type(s): Tzu mu Phao (Poundage / Caliber unknown)

Rockets:(yes/no) sparkly fireworks (whooo)

Howitzer Type(s): N/A

Shell types: solid, explosive, canister

Men per artillery crew: 4

Mules/Horses: Varies

Ships

Covered in Military Stats

1. Ship Class:
2. armament:
3. Crew:
(If you have multiple ship classes, repeat 1, 2, and 3 for each ship class)

(Here is a list of Ship Classes:
http://i.imgur.com/gc9R73v.png
This does not include Steam Frigates or Ironclads, those don't have a limit on Guns or size.

Accompaniments: (Marines, etc)

Please remember to post this to the Archive Thread