1900 : Alternative Divergence [AH][DEAD]

[Plzen]

Isn't it possible to split Finland into two or something?

As far as I know we're in agreement with regards to how Finland and Karelia will be split up. That agreement is reflected on the second map I posted.

Gotland is still under dispute, though. Both sides consider the island to be an integral part of their nation.

[Axis Asteroid]

Mean outlanders get out! Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

WA is a particular region of note since the Vandals have blood ties to the Mali, Ghana, and Songhai, with said empires now integrated into Vandal territory.

So, expect a lot of native upheaval lol. Pan-Africanism will be a pain to deal with.

Certainly. If Scandinavia does get ahold of West Africa there will be a lot of atrocities for sure. Forced resettlement, discriminatory education, internment, or depopulation (a fancy term for "kill everyone") are all effective strategies against insurgencies.

Wait, that strip of African coast is part of Dahomey though.

Hence my earlier request that you let me have this one province.

Yeah, those arrocitities will put the Norse high up on the Vandal’s list of priorities lol.

I think the one province should work actually, but I’ll check real quick by logging in to my pc. Can’t do this any longer on an iPad lol.

[Tracian Empire]

Isn't it possible to split Finland into two or something?

As far as I know we're in agreement with regards to how Finland and Karelia will be split up. That agreement is reflected on the second map I posted.

Gotland is still under dispute, though. Both sides consider the island to be an integral part of their nation.

Well..dividing the island in two would be pretty difficult.

[Plzen]

Yeah, those arrocitities will put the Norse high up on the Vandal’s list of priorities lol.

I think the one province should work actually, but I’ll check real quick by logging in to my pc. Can’t do this any longer on an iPad lol.

This is all in the future, though. Right now what Scandinavia has is a little strip of coast "controlled" by half a dozen defended trading posts.

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Well..dividing the island in two would be pretty difficult.

Indeed. Hence the dispute.

I really should go now, though, so however it's going to be resolved, please don't do it for another hour.

[Remnants of Exilvania]

Isn't it possible to split Finland into two or something?

As far as I know we're in agreement with regards to how Finland and Karelia will be split up. That agreement is reflected on the second map I posted.

Gotland is still under dispute, though. Both sides consider the island to be an integral part of their nation.

Yeah, Finland is all yours.

As far as I know we're in agreement with regards to how Finland and Karelia will be split up. That agreement is reflected on the second map I posted.

Gotland is still under dispute, though. Both sides consider the island to be an integral part of their nation.

Well..dividing the island in two would be pretty difficult.

Actually, that's a nice idea. Sakhalin island style.
Although I want the half with Visby, as most of the resident germans would be there.

[Axis Asteroid]

Yeah, those arrocitities will put the Norse high up on the Vandal’s list of priorities lol.

I think the one province should work actually, but I’ll check real quick by logging in to my pc. Can’t do this any longer on an iPad lol.

This is all in the future, though. Right now what Scandinavia has is a little strip of coast "controlled" by half a dozen defended trading posts.

Just checked. It works since that strip isn't actually a part of Dahomey proper lol. Updated my map claim with that in mind.

EDIT: Have to ask though, is there a reason you wanted that coastline in particular? Not aware of any historical Scandanavian connection to that part of WA.

[Plzen]

EDIT: Have to ask though, is there a reason you wanted that coastline in particular? Not aware of any historical Scandanavian connection to that part of WA.

Danske Guldkyst. It's a RL colony of Denmark's. Or used to be, until they sold it to Britain.

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Actually, that's a nice idea. Sakhalin island style.
Although I want the half with Vitsby, as most of the resident germans would be there.

Perhaps just make the entire island a co-jurisdiction? Nominally Scandinavian territory, but Teuton citizens to be governed under Teuton law and Teuton jurisdiction, enforced by a dual government of sorts.

EDIT: Kind of like how Shanghai used to work, IRL.

[Narintia]

I thought I reserved Russia from Trace...

[Tracian Empire]

I thought I reserved Russia from Trace...

I mean, all non-OP reservations as of now are unofficial, but as far as I'm aware, Russia so far has not been claimed by anyone else.

[Remnants of Exilvania]

Actually, that's a nice idea. Sakhalin island style.
Although I want the half with Vitsby, as most of the resident germans would be there.

Perhaps just make the entire island a co-jurisdiction? Nominally Scandinavian territory, but Teuton citizens to be governed under Teuton law and Teuton jurisdiction, enforced by a dual government of sorts.

EDIT: Kind of like how Shanghai used to work, IRL.

Definitely not as I want to use that island militarily.

[Remnants of Exilvania]

I thought I reserved Russia from Trace...

Russia is a broad term.
So far, I see no part of Russia occupied by anyone.
Except that piece of Karelia which belongs to modern day Russia or Kaliningrad. And probably also Roman Crimea.

[Axis Asteroid]

EDIT: Have to ask though, is there a reason you wanted that coastline in particular? Not aware of any historical Scandanavian connection to that part of WA.

Danske Guldkyst. It's a RL colony of Denmark's. Or used to be, until they sold it to Britain.

Interesting. Did a cursory reading on it. Always good to learn more history.

In terms of how Scandinavia acquired it, I can see that occurring when the Vandals intervened in a succession crisis in Dahomey, which resulted in the acquisition of the kingdom by the end of the conflict.

Scandinavia could have exploited the chaos to grab that strip of Togo coast before the situation stabilized.

[Plzen]

Scandinavia could have exploited the chaos to grab that strip of Togo coast before the situation stabilized.

I imagine the trading posts are a lot older than that. 1500s establishment, basically. There were Scandinavians there for a very long time.

Then when the chaos happened those Scandinavians just got together and declared that the province is theirs 'cause the trading post has bigger guns than the locals.

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Definitely not as I want to use that island militarily.

Then do you just want to start the RP at war with Scandinavia over the island?

A Scandinavian declaration of war in, say, 1848 over the casus belli of protecting the Swedish population of the island.

[Remnants of Exilvania]

Definitely not as I want to use that island militarily.

Then do you just want to start the RP at war with Scandinavia over the island?

A Scandinavian declaration of war in, say, 1848 over the casus belli of protecting the Swedish population of the island.

If we have to settle it like this, then so be it.
Be prepared though, Teutonic Gotland is not the same as IRL Swedish Gotland.

[Plzen]

If we have to settle it like this, then so be it.
Be prepared though, Teutonic Gotland is not the same as IRL Swedish Gotland.

I mean, if we win, resettlement + depopulation. There are ways to make the Swedish minority into a Swedish majority.

The problem will lie in winning in the first place. I imagine the island is heavily fortified and won't simply collapse the first time Scandinavia sets up a naval blockade.

[Axis Asteroid]

Scandinavia could have exploited the chaos to grab that strip of Togo coast before the situation stabilized.

I imagine the trading posts are a lot older than that. 1500s establishment, basically. There were Scandinavians there for a very long time.

Then when the chaos happened those Scandinavians just got together and declared that the province is theirs 'cause they have bigger guns.

Ah, well Dahomey had yet to exist at that point. Their ensuing conquest of Togo would occur like it did historically however with save for the coastal trading posts, which they would grudgingly tolerate.

Would have to think of a reason why the Vandals wouldn't simply overrun the territory once the intervention was concluded though. You did say the province is limited to a number of well-defended trading posts though right? I would expect them to have developed into more well defended fortresses with coastal batteries than just standard military outposts due to the heavy presence of Vandal pirates in Guinea, in which frequent coastal raids would justify such heavy armaments.

The defensibility of said outposts can then be used as leverage to prevent a Vandal attack due to the prospect of heavy losses, though the latter could only be deterred so long unless an accord was reached. How about the scenario of co-jurisdiction you mentioned earlier in which the province would remain nominally Dahomey/Vandal, but would be governed under Scandinavian law and house Scandinavian troops etc. just like Shanghai?

[Remnants of Exilvania]

If we have to settle it like this, then so be it.
Be prepared though, Teutonic Gotland is not the same as IRL Swedish Gotland.

I mean, if we win, resettlement + depopulation. There are ways to make the Swedish minority into a Swedish majority.

The problem will lie in winning in the first place. I imagine the island is heavily fortified and won't simply collapse the first time Scandinavia sets up a naval blockade.

Well, considering that it is the biggest island in the Baltic Sea and thus the most important strategic asset in the area, you can definitely count on it being heavily fortified.
Similarly to Ösel, Dagö and Mohn, although those are mainly fortified to protect the Gulf of Riga and block it off.

[Plzen]

The defensibility of said outposts can then be used as leverage to prevent a Vandal attack due to the prospect of heavy losses, though the latter could only be deterred so long unless an accord was reached. How about the scenario of co-jurisdiction you mentioned earlier in which the province would remain nominally Dahomey/Vandal, but would be governed under Scandanvian law etc. just like Shanghai?

This is acceptable to me. I'll edit my map accordingly. I'm definitely claiming something else to make up for it, though.

The Scandinavian colonial empire has to start Africa somewhere, after all.

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Well, considering that it is the biggest island in the Baltic Sea and thus the most important strategic asset in the area, you can definitely count on it being heavily fortified.
Similarly to Ösel, Dagö and Mohn, although those are mainly fortified to protect the Gulf of Riga and block it off.

Hmm... if we starve all the Germans off people can't blame us for atrocities.

Although I think Gotland is self-sufficient food-wise. It's not that heavily populated. What a shame.

I can't see either side trying to land troops, so this war will be decided in the Baltic. Scandinavia will probably recall a big portion of its colonial fleet, which may weaken its position elsewhere...

This will be interesting.

[Tracian Empire]

viewtopic.php?p=33182908#p33182908

Reboot is here

[Remnants of Exilvania]

Well, considering that it is the biggest island in the Baltic Sea and thus the most important strategic asset in the area, you can definitely count on it being heavily fortified.
Similarly to Ösel, Dagö and Mohn, although those are mainly fortified to protect the Gulf of Riga and block it off.

Hmm... if we starve all the Germans off people can't blame us for atrocities.

Although I think Gotland is self-sufficient food-wise. It's not that heavily populated. What a shame.

I can't see either side trying to land troops, so this war will be decided in the Baltic. Scandinavia will probably recall a big portion of its colonial fleet, which may weaken its position elsewhere...

This will be interesting.

It's definitely going to be a very balanced war.
Populationwise we should be pretty close to each other, with the Scandinavian territory you hold having a population of somewhere around <8 million.
The Livonian Order seems to have around 2 Million but I'm having trouble finding exact numbers for the Teutonic Order. But I suppose I'll also come out with my overall pop at around 6-7 Million.