1900 : Alternative Divergence [AH][DEAD]

[Remnants of Exilvania]

If I were tiptoing around you, I would not be posting in here and instead just send a TG straight to the OPs.

Now, please, you relax, yes? You have made no sleight against me nor am I annoyed. Besides, Thrace can ensure you that I my use of profanities on NS has nothing to do with anger. Heck, I don't even consider it to be much of a profanity nor in any way negative but merely as a phrase to express how incredibly much you have posted. Urban Dictionary supports me in this. So please don't freak out when there is no problem. Nobody here is cursing at you or being angry with you, heck, nobody is treating you like something less than human. I am simply overwhelmed by the amount of effort you've blown into this in just a couple of days and want to express this properly.

Also, just as a friendly question, you ask for me to go to TG and treat you like a human, to not spread negativity or anything and to relax? Meanwhile you write a complete post ranting about this? You could've written a TG if you felt as if you were being treated badly, like you suggested I should do.

Okay. I apologize. I'm stupid sometimes, I guess. I'll just try to... do something else, I guess.

I misunderstood the situation. I think I need a break for a bit, and maybe some music. Lunch is coming up, and I'll be away from the computer and my phone, so I can get a small reprieve from my technology addiction.

I too apologize on my behalf. As a non-native english speaker, my rhetoric may sometimes seem a bit weird.
Plus it may have actually been a little annoyed but excuse that. I had only 3 hours of sleep and just got home after an hour ago after roughly 11 hours of school and stuff.


Which reminds me, I might just have to go to bed at 3:30 AM again this night...

[Arventum]

Okay. I apologize. I'm stupid sometimes, I guess. I'll just try to... do something else, I guess.

I misunderstood the situation. I think I need a break for a bit, and maybe some music. Lunch is coming up, and I'll be away from the computer and my phone, so I can get a small reprieve from my technology addiction.

I too apologize on my behalf. As a non-native english speaker, my rhetoric may sometimes seem a bit weird.
Plus it may have actually been a little annoyed but excuse that. I had only 3 hours of sleep and just got home after an hour ago after roughly 11 hours of school and stuff.

Which reminds me, I might just have to go to bed at 3:30 AM again this night...

Jesus, mate. I hope you get some much needed rest o_o

And you have excellent English, mate, so please don't worry about that ^_^

I actually couldn't tell, and I'm rather attentive to such details since I used to help tutor non-native English speakers in my classes. So, please don't ever think your English sucks.

[Oscalantine]

When this magic thread pops up, you ought to leave us poor plebs who never check the NS Forum and Subforum Index a link.

To be fair, you aren't missing much. OP-land is filled with seemingly endless waiting. I mean... I check on NS once every three days, and I am considered the active one XDDD

That said, most of the OP decisions are handled over Discord. We used to do things over TG in NS, but it always became quite unmanageable. Thus us going fully into other section.

I didn't want to autoplay another nation's lore or history without permission. I was just wondering how that would have been taken care of. I have no idea what to do about that. I just noticed it, and was worried about the impact that would have on European stuff. If I needed to eventually add something to my history so that such info would have been sold at some time, or something, I would have, seeing as how it was such an important development in European shipbuilding. I just didn't want to cause any problems, and wanted to fix an issue before it popped up.

It was a genuine question, and one of concern, and I don't really need or want to get into a conflict of any kind, and while I understand the assumption that you made, I would appreciate it if you didn't make such assumptions again as it causes me stress. I become physically ill when I am in a conflict, and try to avoid them because of that. I don't need to throw up in the middle of class, or anything.

All I want to do is help, and find stuff out.

As I said, it is grounds for banhammer, not that you have done anything wrong as of this moment.

I just wanted to make it clear because it was troubling. I appreciate the help, and if we were discussing guidance (which... we are pretty close to ditching contrary to my chagrin T~T), I would have been more than happy to have fun discussing possibilities with you.

But I had some thought, and I would feel that what you said wouldn't be much of an issue. It is a very minor issue in macro-standpoint... well, I say minor with heaps of salt, because you are right in that it really revolutionized European shipbuilding. Still, I would imagine that Europeans would have gotten source of wood from somewhere else if push came to shove, and during 1850s we were quickly moving on towards ironclads, which would make issues with wood less and less of an issue. If it really irks you, I could imagine that European shipwright would have found a way regardless: a well-connected European nation would have been able to steal or trade shipbuilding technologies from the orient, which would have equally strong shipbuilding legacy as South Asian nations. So I do not think it would make much of an issue going forward.

Also... not doing that in the future... dude, I sympathize, but I must convey my thoughts on the issue as clear as possible as one of the OPs of this thread. I found it the best method to communicate, as direct method that I use would ensure that there is no confusion on my ideas. For instance, you were able to correct my misconception on what I thought you were suggesting just on this post alone. If I were to try to consider everyone's feelings, I wouldn't have this conversation. If you need me to be considerate, try to catch me when I become manager of regional RPs. I am more than willing to hold everyone's hands there. But I cannot here, where I am both the manager of this thread as well as thread's recruiter. The less misconception that I have with others the better, and that won't happen if I need to be indirect and considerate.

[Narintia]

I... don't exactly what to destroy any dreams here, but I am going to give you a fair... errr... food for thought: the RP hasn't rebooted yet, so we are not accepting any reservations just yet. Don't get TOO TOO invested in a country. It is nice to see you so interested though.

Currency... value of currency...

The concept of exchange rate didn't exist until the end of Bretton Wood system, which was AFTER WWII. In fact, the concept of paper money was something of a new concept. The only form of paper money that existed was in banknotes or ... what essentially is bonds. It is glorified IOU for the amount of gold that is written in the documents. Gold coins only really ran out of circulation around 1933.

So... value of currency is its weight. Gold has universal value and countries can simply melt and re-mint the coin if they get coin from another nation. Marketplace would have weights to measure the coin's weight.

And by some sheer idiotic rationale that a nation goes beyond that and actually prints paper money in 1850, the concept of goodwill-backed, floating notes didn't exist until very modern times, and this was only possible because US was such a powerhouse of economy. In our timeline, it would be impossible for ANY nation at the start be able to enforce floating rate on their currencies, if they ever use paper money at all. Plus, with nations getting into imperialism from mercantilism, no nation will be willing to accept another nation's floating policies.

Conclusion: the value of currencies will be its weight in gold, for all currency worth a thing will be gold coins. No nation will be able to enforce a nation-wide universal banknotes, let alone paper money. In the era of imperialism, no neighbors will accept floating rate system, leading not to economic collapse, but the economy rejecting any floating currency downright.

---

Beyond that... err... economic indicators...

I consider economy as I consider power level of nations: depends on posts. A nation that posts more economic posts will mean that their government is more focused on economy, leading to better economy.

I guess there CAN be a list, but it will cause unintentional drama and headache for who is top and who is not. I had similar system during my time in the regional RP where I put first place in every category, not a list... and that upset quite a few people despite the obviousness.

That said, i will entertain the thought over the board when we come closer to completing our core mechanics.

Wouldn't a rate of exchange in the 19th century be about the rate of currency to gold coin?
So if 1 pound = 1 ounce of gold, and 1.50 dollars = 1 ounce of gold, you can deduce that 1 pound = 1.50 dollars

[Oscalantine]

So I believe that we are about 80% done of some of the systems enough that I can share a bit of teaser:

1) We are revamping colonial rule to buff the colonizers while giving abilities for colonized to fight back. Basically we are not going to be protecting nations in the non-superpower region (we are keeping hardcode regions of Europe, Meso/South Americas, and Orient as colonizing regions with no tech penalty... everyone else has set year tech penalty) and will allow imperial overlords to annex player nations. However, we are going to encourage vassalization and protectorate as much as possible so that RPers don't simply drop due to colonization. We are also planning on implementing system for "round two" for colonized nations to re-up their alliance and fight back the overlord at full strength once more.

2) To complement colonial rule, we are introducing a new rival system. Basically in the apps, we will add nations to "optionally" include rivals. I say "optional" with quotations because it is essentially mandatory. A nation without any description on rivals (doesn't have to be specific nation, although that is encouraged... it could also be a concept like "any nation that messes with certain areas of interest" or "any nation with republican traditions" and so forth) will essentially be losing player-to-player wars. Beyond just keeping a rival, a nation must actively try to screw over target of that rival. This is to ensure that we don't have stagnancy like in our last RPs. Also, this will provide political aspect of the RP more meat: I mean... if a nation is eyeing you up for invasion, befriending one who rivaled that nation and share intrigue and military access would give MASSIVE incentive for rival nation to actively protect you to screw over that invading force.

We are trying to hammer out the details of these two factors, but we are coming close to conclusion, with about 4 of 5 members saying that current version is alright. If you have any concerns or suggestions about above two systems, let me know and I'll try to take those into account as much as possible.

[Oscalantine]

Wouldn't a rate of exchange in the 19th century be about the rate of currency to gold coin?
So if 1 pound = 1 ounce of gold, and 1.50 dollars = 1 ounce of gold, you can deduce that 1 pound = 1.50 dollars

Essentially yes.

But most gold coins have their values in weight, so it really boils down to every nation using the weight of gold as currency for their economies. Hence the reason why I didn't want to make a exchange rate stuff.

... and on a personal note, I don't want to T~T. I did that over regional RP based on NSEcon, nation's posts, and relative value of the system, and it took WEEKS to find the happy calculation. I had a dedicated excel sheet, too. It was too taxing for me... but it was an interesting concept for PMT RP, I must admit.

[Arventum]

So, did the Mongols get to Nepal or anywhere else that they could have attacked India from? If so, my non-Muslim Delhi Sultanate replacement needs to be mentioned as having repelled that attack into India in my history, since the Persians/Romans probably wouldn't have prevented it if the attack had been made from Nepal, or something.

[Tracian Empire]

So, did the Mongols get to Nepal or anywhere else that they could have attacked India from? If so, my non-Muslim Delhi Sultanate replacement needs to be mentioned as having repelled that attack into India in my history, since the Persians/Romans probably wouldn't have prevented it if the attack had been made from Nepal, or something.

Well, the Mongols probably still reached Central Asia and Eastern Europe. I don't know about India, unfortunately.

[Remnants of Exilvania]

2) To complement colonial rule, we are introducing a new rival system. Basically in the apps, we will add nations to "optionally" include rivals. I say "optional" with quotations because it is essentially mandatory. A nation without any description on rivals (doesn't have to be specific nation, although that is encouraged... it could also be a concept like "any nation that messes with certain areas of interest" or "any nation with republican traditions" and so forth) will essentially be losing player-to-player wars. Beyond just keeping a rival, a nation must actively try to screw over target of that rival. This is to ensure that we don't have stagnancy like in our last RPs. Also, this will provide political aspect of the RP more meat: I mean... if a nation is eyeing you up for invasion, befriending one who rivaled that nation and share intrigue and military access would give MASSIVE incentive for rival nation to actively protect you to screw over that invading force.

What about nations with no colonies? If I would go for Teutonic Order my best, unobstructed port would be Murmansk and that's kinda...well...bad for colonisation. Will we too have to make rivals?

[Axis Asteroid]

2) To complement colonial rule, we are introducing a new rival system. Basically in the apps, we will add nations to "optionally" include rivals. I say "optional" with quotations because it is essentially mandatory. A nation without any description on rivals (doesn't have to be specific nation, although that is encouraged... it could also be a concept like "any nation that messes with certain areas of interest" or "any nation with republican traditions" and so forth) will essentially be losing player-to-player wars. Beyond just keeping a rival, a nation must actively try to screw over target of that rival. This is to ensure that we don't have stagnancy like in our last RPs. Also, this will provide political aspect of the RP more meat: I mean... if a nation is eyeing you up for invasion, befriending one who rivaled that nation and share intrigue and military access would give MASSIVE incentive for rival nation to actively protect you to screw over that invading force.

I like it. Reminds me of Europa Universalis IV tbh.

[Tracian Empire]

2) To complement colonial rule, we are introducing a new rival system. Basically in the apps, we will add nations to "optionally" include rivals. I say "optional" with quotations because it is essentially mandatory. A nation without any description on rivals (doesn't have to be specific nation, although that is encouraged... it could also be a concept like "any nation that messes with certain areas of interest" or "any nation with republican traditions" and so forth) will essentially be losing player-to-player wars. Beyond just keeping a rival, a nation must actively try to screw over target of that rival. This is to ensure that we don't have stagnancy like in our last RPs. Also, this will provide political aspect of the RP more meat: I mean... if a nation is eyeing you up for invasion, befriending one who rivaled that nation and share intrigue and military access would give MASSIVE incentive for rival nation to actively protect you to screw over that invading force.

What about nations with no colonies? If I would go for Teutonic Order my best, unobstructed port would be Murmansk and that's kinda...well...bad for colonisation. Will we too have to make rivals?

As far as I'm aware, the rival system is something different from the colonial system. It compliments it from the point of view that both of them are being introduced in order to make the roleplaying experience better, and the different conflicts, rivalries, and alliances much more streamlined.

But I could easily say that your Teutonic Order will have more than enough rivals.

[Sveya]

Tag for interest in this reboot.

[Remnants of Exilvania]

What about nations with no colonies? If I would go for Teutonic Order my best, unobstructed port would be Murmansk and that's kinda...well...bad for colonisation. Will we too have to make rivals?

As far as I'm aware, the rival system is something different from the colonial system. It compliments it from the point of view that both of them are being introduced in order to make the roleplaying experience better, and the different conflicts, rivalries, and alliances much more streamlined.

But I could easily say that your Teutonic Order will have more than enough rivals.

I know.
Imma rival whatever appears in Scandinavia as they would be the only ones to challenge me supreme control of the Baltics.

[Tracian Empire]

As far as I'm aware, the rival system is something different from the colonial system. It compliments it from the point of view that both of them are being introduced in order to make the roleplaying experience better, and the different conflicts, rivalries, and alliances much more streamlined.

But I could easily say that your Teutonic Order will have more than enough rivals.

I know.
Imma rival whatever appears in Scandinavia as they would be the only ones to challenge me supreme control of the Baltics.

Well, you're also going to have to deal with the Russians, with other Slavs, and with possibly other Germans or Austrians.

[Arventum]

Who do you guys think that I should rival? The Federation has a policy of non-aggression at the moment, unless someone other than Persia decides that All India (any part of the Indian subcontinent) looks tasty, or decides to pose a direct threat to Persia, and thus a part of the Indian subcontinent.

[Arventum]

I just wanna be everyone's friend The Federation is highly reliant on positive foreign relations, since, you know, we just want people to buy our stuff...

We don't need to buy stuff, for the most part, but we like to sell stuff.

[Tracian Empire]

I just wanna be everyone's friend The Federation is highly reliant on positive foreign relations, since, you know, we just want people to buy our stuff...

We don't need to buy stuff, for the most part, but we like to sell stuff.

I don't know much about the region, but unless you're extremely isolationist, you're going to have rivals. You can't be friends with everyone, interests of different nations nearly always come to a conflict.

[Arventum]

I just wanna be everyone's friend The Federation is highly reliant on positive foreign relations, since, you know, we just want people to buy our stuff...

We don't need to buy stuff, for the most part, but we like to sell stuff.

I don't know much about the region, but unless you're extremely isolationist, you're going to have rivals. You can't be friends with everyone, interests of different nations nearly always come to a conflict.

I know, I know...

I'm just not sure who the rivals would be. Who do you suggest? I mean, it can't be Persia or Rome - that would be suicidal. Maybe Siam/Thailand, or Burma/Myanmar, or whatever they turn ut to be.

[Tracian Empire]

I don't know much about the region, but unless you're extremely isolationist, you're going to have rivals. You can't be friends with everyone, interests of different nations nearly always come to a conflict.

I know, I know...

I'm just not sure who the rivals would be. Who do you suggest? I mean, it can't be Persia or Rome - that would be suicidal. Maybe Siam/Thailand, or Burma/Myanmar, or whatever they turn ut to be.

Well, it's not like Rome can do much against you. We're far away, and we might not even have any direct trade routes.

But you should think about that once you know your neighbors.

[Remnants of Exilvania]

I know.
Imma rival whatever appears in Scandinavia as they would be the only ones to challenge me supreme control of the Baltics.

Well, you're also going to have to deal with the Russians, with other Slavs, and with possibly other Germans or Austrians.

I know. Someone is going to rival me. I just said who I am going to actively rival.

Fun thing is, this is all going to get me killed. I have few ressources, many ethnicities, a country cut in half by St. Petersburg etc.
I am so going to die. But well, all for the RP. It shall be a well played out death.

[Arventum]

Well, you're also going to have to deal with the Russians, with other Slavs, and with possibly other Germans or Austrians.

I know. Someone is going to rival me. I just said who I am going to actively rival.

Fun thing is, this is all going to get me killed. I have few ressources, many ethnicities, a country cut in half by St. Petersburg etc.
I am so going to die. But well, all for the RP. It shall be a well played out death.

*Overthrows you, and puts a Sikh leader in place.* Acceptance for everyone, and a terrifyingly efficient army, yay!

Join us.

[Remnants of Exilvania]

I know. Someone is going to rival me. I just said who I am going to actively rival.

Fun thing is, this is all going to get me killed. I have few ressources, many ethnicities, a country cut in half by St. Petersburg etc.
I am so going to die. But well, all for the RP. It shall be a well played out death.

*Overthrows you, and puts a Sikh leader in place.* Acceptance for everyone, and a terrifyingly efficient army, yay!

Join us.

A Sikh leader in North-Eastern Europe...sorry son but I think your acceptance is not going to work.

Besides, I think I will make the United Teutonic-Livonian Armies the sole reason why the Order has weathered the storm and even expanded so I doubt I'll need a Sikh Army.

[Tracian Empire]

*Overthrows you, and puts a Sikh leader in place.* Acceptance for everyone, and a terrifyingly efficient army, yay!

Join us.

A Sikh leader in North-Eastern Europe...sorry son but I think your acceptance is not going to work.

Besides, I think I will make the United Teutonic-Livonian Armies the sole reason why the Order has weathered the storm and even expanded so I doubt I'll need a Sikh Army.

The Romans would have loved you.. but you're Catholic.

Schismatics.

[Arventum]

*Overthrows you, and puts a Sikh leader in place.* Acceptance for everyone, and a terrifyingly efficient army, yay!

Join us.

A Sikh leader in North-Eastern Europe...sorry son but I think your acceptance is not going to work.

Besides, I think I will make the United Teutonic-Livonian Armies the sole reason why the Order has weathered the storm and even expanded so I doubt I'll need a Sikh Army.

But the Sikh are great.

Aw, okay

[Axis Asteroid]

A Sikh leader in North-Eastern Europe...sorry son but I think your acceptance is not going to work.

Besides, I think I will make the United Teutonic-Livonian Armies the sole reason why the Order has weathered the storm and even expanded so I doubt I'll need a Sikh Army.

The Romans would have loved you.. but you're Catholic.

Schismatics.

Pfft. Trinitarians....

Begotten not made, distinct and subordinate to the Father.

Africa will be Arian.