New Civilizations [OOC | Open]

[G-Tech Corporation]

Can I post my next day?

Certainly. You could post your next month, if you really wanted to.

[Leninist South Africa]

Alright, but how do I start my Russian dream?

[G-Tech Corporation]

Alright, but how do I start my Russian dream?

Perhaps find some local Neolithic tribals and try to work your way in to their good books by hunting for them and whatnot.

[Leninist South Africa]

Alright. Can I start teaching them Russian?

[Ulls]

Alright, but how do I start my Russian dream?

Perhaps find some local Neolithic tribals and try to work your way in to their good books by hunting for them and whatnot.

And keep away from the Imperium.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Alright. Can I start teaching them Russian?

Sure, though they'll likely be initially resistant; they have their own language, after all, and don't really have a reason to learn Russian.

[Leninist South Africa]

Perhaps find some local Neolithic tribals and try to work your way in to their good books by hunting for them and whatnot.

And keep away from the Imperium.

I can do that, as long as you agree to not go farther than St. Petersburg.

[Ulls]

And keep away from the Imperium.

I can do that, as long as you agree to not go farther than St. Petersburg.

Invade from Alaska you say? Now your talking!

No put Ego has its own plans and problems to deal with once they get to Europe so you will be fine.

[Conwy-Shire]

hold up... G-tech, what happened to the map? The League's territories have been halved at some point and your territories in Anatolia have doubled... not to mention whatever you've done to Lorraine...

EDIT. going off this which I lifted from the OP: https://www.dropbox.com/s/myzrse0sq57o4 ... s.png?dl=0

[G-Tech Corporation]

hold up... G-tech, what happened to the map? The League's territories have been halved at some point and your territories in Anatolia have doubled... not to mention whatever you've done to Lorraine...

EDIT. going off this which I lifted from the OP: https://www.dropbox.com/s/myzrse0sq57o4 ... s.png?dl=0

Hmm? I haven't done anything to the League, offhand, since Conwy never got back to me about those expansions. As for Anatolia, that's mainly the dribs and drabs that will slowly become formal possessions from Ted's trip south.

[Conwy-Shire]

Hmm? I haven't done anything to the League, offhand, since Conwy never got back to me about those expansions. As for Anatolia, that's mainly the dribs and drabs that will slowly become formal possessions from Ted's trip south.

1. I... am? Conwy...
2. I... did? get back to you with a neat lil' map...

That post took far too long to complete, but here's an updated map of the League in compensation
http://i.imgur.com/UGauZ3w.png

[G-Tech Corporation]

That post took far too long to complete, but here's an updated map of the League in compensation
http://i.imgur.com/UGauZ3w.png

Hmm. You quadrupled in size in a decade. You know that will lead to major stability issues, no?

[Conwy-Shire]

Hmm. You quadrupled in size in a decade. You know that will lead to major stability issues, no?

Yarp,
though to be salty - I did have an integration post half-done before you cut off the last RP and forced a timeskip

It's also a neat solution to the combined demands for more urban/pastoral land as evidenced by the disaster thingy from New Civ IV

NB. I don't wanna appear salty by throwing quotes around, but I did think we had this cleared up

[G-Tech Corporation]

Yarp,
though to be salty - I did have an integration post half-done before you cut off the last RP and forced a timeskip

It's also a neat solution to the combined demands for more urban/pastoral land as evidenced by the disaster thingy from New Civ IV

NB. I don't wanna appear salty by throwing quotes around, but I did think we had this cleared up

I think it was my counterpoint that wasn't addressed- about that event not being related to total land, but rather the prime land close to cities being contested between pastoralists who want access to markets and sedentary farmers wanting that land for fields.

And, of course, the continued point that- internal stability or not- quadrupling in size in half of a generation is not a precedent we want to set.

[Leninist South Africa]

I can do that, as long as you agree to not go farther than St. Petersburg.

Invade from Alaska you say? Now your talking!

No put Ego has its own plans and problems to deal with once they get to Europe so you will be fine.

How about this. I'll let you have Alaska and western Canada, I get Siberia and Quebec?

[Conwy-Shire]

I think it was my counterpoint that wasn't addressed- about that event not being related to total land, but rather the prime land close to cities being contested between pastoralists who want access to markets and sedentary farmers wanting that land for fields.

And, of course, the continued point that- internal stability or not- quadrupling in size in half of a generation is not a precedent we want to set.

To your counterpoint, that's not how economic landuseage works... or pastoralism for that matter. Pastoralists don't occupy all of the land that is outside the centre gravity, they move freely outside of the sedentary periphery, sometimes brushing up against the edges and entering the sedentary bubble only to sell their produce, which would occur in lands far from the agricultural zone. Though von Thunen was writing about a completely sedentary society, his work on spatial economics and land use holds true for most societies, and I would encourage you to look at a Thunen ring diagram before the issue of this event from 10 years back escalates.

On expansions, the League isn't a centralised state like your Imperium... it's a League. There's a common constitution which brushes over the rights and 'Golden Liberties' of members and their citizens, but legislation is created by the Council which features representation from all members - which is kinda peachy for a city-state or town with a big ol' Imperium breathing down its neck. The pseudo-democratic system and being :notHitler: means I can 'expand' by attraction rather than conquest - just like how I'm not planning on annexing any land in the current campaign in the East. And when you've quadrupled your size by bringing people together peacefully - with the explicit intent on making everyone's lives wealthier/longer/happier/freer - the problem becomes more of an external one concerning the line of neighbours wanting to join in on the fun.

It's not setting a bad precedent, because I'm afraid there are too many authors here right now who think they can waltz around conquering whatever they lay their eyes on. I'm trying to RP an author whose goal is to make life like it was back home, as opposed to carving out a new world in the old nation-RP style.

[Ulls]

Invade from Alaska you say? Now your talking!

No put Ego has its own plans and problems to deal with once they get to Europe so you will be fine.

How about this. I'll let you have Alaska and western Canada, I get Siberia and Quebec?

I'm near Quebec so that won't work.

I think it was my counterpoint that wasn't addressed- about that event not being related to total land, but rather the prime land close to cities being contested between pastoralists who want access to markets and sedentary farmers wanting that land for fields.

And, of course, the continued point that- internal stability or not- quadrupling in size in half of a generation is not a precedent we want to set.

To your counterpoint, that's not how economic landuseage works... or pastoralism for that matter. Pastoralists don't occupy all of the land that is outside the centre gravity, they move freely outside of the sedentary periphery, sometimes brushing up against the edges and entering the sedentary bubble only to sell their produce, which would occur in lands far from the agricultural zone. Though von Thunen was writing about a completely sedentary society, his work on spatial economics and land use holds true for most societies, and I would encourage you to look at a Thunen ring diagram before the issue of this event from 10 years back escalates.

On expansions, the League isn't a centralised state like your Imperium... it's a League. There's a common constitution which brushes over the rights and 'Golden Liberties' of members and their citizens, but legislation is created by the Council which features representation from all members - which is kinda peachy for a city-state or town with a big ol' Imperium breathing down its neck. The pseudo-democratic system and being :notHitler: means I can 'expand' by attraction rather than conquest - just like how I'm not planning on annexing any land in the current campaign in the East. And when you've quadrupled your size by bringing people together peacefully - with the explicit intent on making everyone's lives wealthier/longer/happier/freer - the problem becomes more of an external one concerning the line of neighbours wanting to join in on the fun.

It's not setting a bad precedent, because I'm afraid there are too many authors here right now who think they can waltz around conquering whatever they lay their eyes on. I'm trying to RP an author whose goal is to make life like it was back home, as opposed to carving out a new world in the old nation-RP style.

I see myself as this and I've been trying to rectify that a bit and focus on internal goals and, thanks to Orson, have an avenue for character development.

[Leninist South Africa]

How about this. I'll let you have Alaska and western Canada, I get Siberia and Quebec?

I'm near Quebec so that won't work.

To your counterpoint, that's not how economic landuseage works... or pastoralism for that matter. Pastoralists don't occupy all of the land that is outside the centre gravity, they move freely outside of the sedentary periphery, sometimes brushing up against the edges and entering the sedentary bubble only to sell their produce, which would occur in lands far from the agricultural zone. Though von Thunen was writing about a completely sedentary society, his work on spatial economics and land use holds true for most societies, and I would encourage you to look at a Thunen ring diagram before the issue of this event from 10 years back escalates.

On expansions, the League isn't a centralised state like your Imperium... it's a League. There's a common constitution which brushes over the rights and 'Golden Liberties' of members and their citizens, but legislation is created by the Council which features representation from all members - which is kinda peachy for a city-state or town with a big ol' Imperium breathing down its neck. The pseudo-democratic system and being :notHitler: means I can 'expand' by attraction rather than conquest - just like how I'm not planning on annexing any land in the current campaign in the East. And when you've quadrupled your size by bringing people together peacefully - with the explicit intent on making everyone's lives wealthier/longer/happier/freer - the problem becomes more of an external one concerning the line of neighbours wanting to join in on the fun.

It's not setting a bad precedent, because I'm afraid there are too many authors here right now who think they can waltz around conquering whatever they lay their eyes on. I'm trying to RP an author whose goal is to make life like it was back home, as opposed to carving out a new world in the old nation-RP style.

I see myself as this and I've been trying to rectify that a bit and focus on internal goals and, thanks to Orson, have an avenue for character development.

You get Greenland and Canada, I get Siberia, and Alaska remains a demilitarized zone between us?

[Revlona]

hold up... G-tech, what happened to the map? The League's territories have been halved at some point and your territories in Anatolia have doubled... not to mention whatever you've done to Lorraine...

EDIT. going off this which I lifted from the OP: https://www.dropbox.com/s/myzrse0sq57o4 ... s.png?dl=0

Hmm? I haven't done anything to the League, offhand, since Conwy never got back to me about those expansions. As for Anatolia, that's mainly the dribs and drabs that will slowly become formal possessions from Ted's trip south.

Speaking of the map. You only gave the Imperium Brittany, I controlled a little bit deeper into France and I had normandy

[The Orson Empire]

Looks like Jeb may be on to me now.

[Skarten]

Sorry, i made my character not to look Real, but to try to squish as many skills as i could. I'll make a simpler one now.
And more realistic.

[Skarten]

Full Name:Yaroshima Morikazu
Age:32
Appearance:
Height and Weight:1.89 Meters, 70 KG
Religion:Roman Catholic Christianism
Field of Expertise:Military History (It's true tho i'm a expert on this)
Skills and Strengths:Yaroshima was born son of a Wealthy Farm owner. At college, he has studied Agriculture. He also happens to be a fan of Old Weaponry, and has learned to be a "Old Gun Gunsmith". Although it's just a hobbie, with the right materials he could assemble a oldish weapon (A Matchlock or a musket, for example)
Weaknesses:Rather physically weak.
Where in the world are you landing?:Western Honshu,Japan
RP Sample:This RP, for example

[G-Tech Corporation]

To your counterpoint, that's not how economic landuseage works... or pastoralism for that matter. Pastoralists don't occupy all of the land that is outside the centre gravity, they move freely outside of the sedentary periphery, sometimes brushing up against the edges and entering the sedentary bubble only to sell their produce, which would occur in lands far from the agricultural zone. Though von Thunen was writing about a completely sedentary society, his work on spatial economics and land use holds true for most societies, and I would encourage you to look at a Thunen ring diagram before the issue of this event from 10 years back escalates.

Ah, I haven't thought about concentric economic advantage in years. That takes me back. But it is important to remember, that as the zones expand, economic activity is not perfectly flexible; yes, pastoralists are mobile, but there are degrees of mobility. Fertile grazing lands near cities are still areas of high value to a pastoral society-subset due to that very proximity - and equally valuable to secondary agricultural activities due to said fertility and proximity. As the urban zone expands in to the primary agriculture zone, and that zone is displaced in to the resource zone, and so on, you see societal friction as the various zones are forced to move outwards by the expanding city.

That was what I was referring to with the farmer-pastoralist crisis; a contention over existing land, not the desire for more land. Obviously there's a near infinite amount of unused land beyond the proximate zones to the urban area that the pastoralists could move in to- they simply might not want to give up their traditional herding grounds in favor of agriculture.

That's what we had a disconnect on. You viewed that event as an incentive to expand on the borders of the League, whereas I meant it to be a source of contention on the urban fringe. Adding more land to the boundaries of Helios wouldn't resolve that issue, that's the trouble I have with you using it as an explanation for your rapid expansion.

On expansions, the League isn't a centralised state like your Imperium... it's a League. There's a common constitution which brushes over the rights and 'Golden Liberties' of members and their citizens, but legislation is created by the Council which features representation from all members - which is kinda peachy for a city-state or town with a big ol' Imperium breathing down its neck. The pseudo-democratic system and being :notHitler: means I can 'expand' by attraction rather than conquest - just like how I'm not planning on annexing any land in the current campaign in the East. And when you've quadrupled your size by bringing people together peacefully - with the explicit intent on making everyone's lives wealthier/longer/happier/freer - the problem becomes more of an external one concerning the line of neighbours wanting to join in on the fun.

It's not setting a bad precedent, because I'm afraid there are too many authors here right now who think they can waltz around conquering whatever they lay their eyes on. I'm trying to RP an author whose goal is to make life like it was back home, as opposed to carving out a new world in the old nation-RP style.

I mean, yes and no. The trouble is that expansion, at any rate, slow or fast, is not entirely peaceful. There are no historical examples of scale for city-states and independent polities giving up power to another expanding polity without conflict; even Rome, who predominantly annexed Italy peacefully, did so via the threat of military force and the occasional demonstration of that force on reticent entities. Men in power don't give up power, even when given economic or cultural incentive to do so, unless that economic or cultural incentive becomes overpowering.

What does Helios offer to the other city-states of her region that they should give up a part of their autonomy to her voluntarily? I ran deal with a rate of slow expansion as cities become economically and socially interdependent and thus their populations gradually demand integration; that is the way the Imperium expands, as she generally expands peacefully. The Ceremony of Oath I detailed in my recent IC post deals with the results of that process, actually. But that is not a rapid pace, even where economic hegemony is all but absolute.

Historically, the only way to add to one nation's land area with speed is either colonization at the expense of primitive peoples, or conquest at the expense of more advanced peoples. Cities and ethnic groups, even tribes that favor confederation, don't simply blob up at such a rate. Tribal consolidation was focused on intermarriage and blood alliances, and that takes a generation or more to take hold, not ten years. Centralization or no centralization.

Unless you have a counter-example of peaceful integration on a vast scale in short time period? I would go with Athens and the Delian League, but even there membership was not entirely voluntary, and was more on account of an external threat than the other city-states deciding to simply join with Athens on account of her economic might/cultural strength/personal freedoms.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Speaking of the map. You only gave the Imperium Brittany, I controlled a little bit deeper into France and I had normandy

Ah, sorry about that. I'll remember to update it when I next look at the map.

Looks like Jeb may be on to me now.

RIP Turner.

Sorry, i made my character not to look Real, but to try to squish as many skills as i could. I'll make a simpler one now.
And more realistic.

I'm not sure how to say this... but it is clear that the point is to write a character with your knowledge, not with skills that would be optimal for landing in the distant past? That's the premise of this RP.

[Ulls]

Looks like Jeb may be on to me now.

That and duality rulership via a second god with fundamentally split Ego.