The Ancient Ones: Age of Nothingness(Multiverse Xover)OOC-2

[Skylus]

I'd like for Bilbo to meet him, if you don't mind.

(Bilbo, Drakonos, and whoever decides to join them won't meet everyone else in Hyrule for a while)

Where's Bilbo right now?

uh.......Near Lake Hylia. Isolated enough, I guess.

[Wheatley Laboratories]

Where's Bilbo right now?

uh.......Near Lake Hylia. Isolated enough, I guess.

Hmm... Maybe. I'm discussing something at the moment which'll determine which arc I put him in. Why exactly do you want them to meet? TG me if spoilers.

[Skylus]

uh.......Near Lake Hylia. Isolated enough, I guess.

Hmm... Maybe. I'm discussing something at the moment which'll determine which arc I put him in. Why exactly do you want them to meet? TG me if spoilers.

Thanks for considering.
I believe there's a island in the middle of the lake that once had a bridge connecting it (you can still cross the bridge, just very, very carefully) to the mainland, but I'm not sure.
It could just be made up for this RP, I guess.
Would that work?

[Wheatley Laboratories]

Hmm... Maybe. I'm discussing something at the moment which'll determine which arc I put him in. Why exactly do you want them to meet? TG me if spoilers.

Thanks for considering.
I believe there's a island in the middle of the lake that once had a bridge connecting it (you can still cross the bridge, just very, very carefully) to the mainland, but I'm not sure.
It could just be made up for this RP, I guess.
Would that work?

Uh, not where. Why?

[Skylus]

Thanks for considering.
I believe there's a island in the middle of the lake that once had a bridge connecting it (you can still cross the bridge, just very, very carefully) to the mainland, but I'm not sure.
It could just be made up for this RP, I guess.
Would that work?

Uh, not where. Why?

Oh.
The reason why is because maybe, if Blue becomes friends with Bilbo, then he can become free or something.

Who's the guy that supposedly owns him?

[Wheatley Laboratories]

Uh, not where. Why?

Oh.
The reason why is because maybe, if Blue becomes friends with Bilbo, then he can become free or something.

Who's the guy that supposedly owns him?

That's what I'm discussing, it's probably Deros' slavers.

[Skylus]

Oh.
The reason why is because maybe, if Blue becomes friends with Bilbo, then he can become free or something.

Who's the guy that supposedly owns him?

That's what I'm discussing, it's probably Deros' slavers.

Hmmm....Well, is it one person?
Could this person be possibly killed and Blue be freed?

[Wheatley Laboratories]

That's what I'm discussing, it's probably Deros' slavers.

Hmmm....Well, is it one person?
Could this person be possibly killed and Blue be freed?

I believe it's a group. Deros says that they're unable to come collect him, so he's technically free until they do.

[Skylus]

Hmmm....Well, is it one person?
Could this person be possibly killed and Blue be freed?

I believe it's a group. Deros says that they're unable to come collect him, so he's technically free until they do.

Okay. So, do you want to have Blue meet Bilbo? If, so, post away.

[Wheatley Laboratories]

I believe it's a group. Deros says that they're unable to come collect him, so he's technically free until they do.

Okay. So, do you want to have Blue meet Bilbo? If, so, post away.

I'm still thinking. I haven't got a character in the main arc yet, plus he'd probably fit better in a sci-fi setting because his powers are based around the avaidabillity of electricity...

[Skylus]

Okay. So, do you want to have Blue meet Bilbo? If, so, post away.

I'm still thinking. I haven't got a character in the main arc yet, plus he'd probably fit better in a sci-fi setting because his powers are based around the avaidabillity of electricity...

Okay.

[The Intergalactic Russian Empire]

Theme I'll use for the Imperium

[Turmenista]

Expect an app for a certain somebody I used to RP as soon. Me and Pruss did some talking on the discord and I think I have something to do while the jojo arc is still going.

[Aeternabilis]

Mutate arc is officially over now. Everyone from there is on a ride straight to the Saturn / Traveler.

[Skylus]

Hey, Wheat, mind if Ammy shows up and talks to Blue?

[Wheatley Laboratories]

Hey, Wheat, mind if Ammy shows up and talks to Blue?

Go for it.

[Skylus]

Hey, Wheat, mind if Ammy shows up and talks to Blue?

Go for it.

Yayyy!!!!!!

might as well get the rest of my IC's on the Traveler as well, I guess (those that are with Ammy)

[Truth Incarnate]

Revised character application (again-ish)

Also, can the formatting be changed? It's difficult to keep emboldening the sections on their own.

Name: Eridan Ampora

Ancient One Half blood?: No

Species: Troll

Age: 13 years, or 6 solar sweeps

Appearance: Big purple royal ensemble, hipster glasses, grey skin, violet blood, orange horns. Fairly tall.

Gender: Male.

Powers/abilities: Hope based telekinesis, beams, all that jazz. He can use it with or without his wand, but his wand lends him extra offensive power. He's basically an kinetokinetic(?), control over force. The blessing of Tzeentch, allowing boosts to his power and extremely obvious emotional manipulation. Superhuman characteristics. Able to breathe underwater. Has more blood than he knows what to do with.

Weaknesses: Taking him by surprise is very easy, and if he's not actively shielding himself, he's about as durable as a brick.

Attack Potency: Large country level.

Equipment: Ahab's Crosshairs. A rifle that shoots big booms. Large building level attacks, town level AP.

The Empiricist's Wand. An entirely mundane, shitty wooden stick.

Universe of Origin: Homestuck

Affiliation: Evil (Tzeentch). Later on, a tentative good.



Hey, look below
I added a thing
Well I mean you can feel free to not look below
It's...
Really long.

I know that most decisions are made while I am not present, so I'm going to put forward my words, your hypothetical ones (not to put words in your mouth) and the hypothetical, real answers.

Should Eridan be powerful enough to defeat the crew currently on The Traveler?

No. Eridan is not able to act as fast as Ty, does not have the attack potency to defeat any more than two at the same time, and any player character should not be strong enough to defeat an entire ensemble of heroes.

Response: A new application for Eridan, in which he is powerful enough to defeat the crew due to his large-country level attack potency, and his greatly boosted stats.

Eridan should not have large-country level attack potency and extraordinary speed, because that is power wanking

What if Eridan were an original character? Several other small-country to country level characters exist who are fully fledged heroes and player characters. The realm of "powerful" lies between country and continent level, while the realm of "extremely powerful" lies at moon level or above. Simply "powerful" characters exist quite commonly, and are relatively unquestioned in their actions. "extremely powerful" characters are very rare, but still exist, such as Draigo, Kongou and others.

But it's still power wanking - going by the definition of "Making a character illogically powerful, disregarding plot and pre-established logic"

However, there is plot reason for him to be powerful enough to perform these feats, namely setting up his relative unstoppability, and thus later subverting it with the Troll Squad's largely emotional and nonconventional attacks. "Illogically" is also refuted by the fact that if an original character application with country level attack potency were to be made, it is likely to be accepted quite readily.

But there's no plot precedence for this kind of power, and a normal player character should not be so powerful

Eridan has not been able to demonstrate his power thus far due to the collateral damage it would cause. Similarly, he is not a normal player character. He is an arc villain, albeit one that generally takes the background, and sometimes serves the heroes' interests. As has been noted, villain power levels are far more lenient than other characters' ones, and are generally less scrutinized. As such, due to his status as a villain, Eridan should be allowed power at least equal to the heroes' ensemble.

Eridan is not a villain, as he is a character from which a perspective is written, and made out to be a sympathetic-ish character

Eridan is not a good person. He is explicity, a villain. And villains, heroes and neutral parties can all have their perspective written into a story. Furthermore, there is no rule that villains are not allowed to have points, or even noble intentions. That is the hallmark of binary good and evil style writing, which is overplayed not only in general media, but in the vast majority of the RP's conflicts as well, rendering a subversion almost irresistible.

There is no reason for Eridan to be so powerful

On the contrary, Eridan is so powerful because he is the villain, and is therefore physically superior to any of the heroes. This is essentially a dichotomy of "strength" and "unity". Eridan is this powerful in order to establish that he is a threat, that he is truly fear-worthy, and to set up his later downfall to a status below that of nearly every other character in the entire RP. Furthermore, he was already potentially this powerful to begin with, though that strand of Homestuck related conjecture is largely hypothetical, and extremely long.

This is still power wanking a character for no good reason other than to temporarily have him be unrealistically badass and incredible

All heroes and villains in the story are unrealistically badass and incredible. Eridan just so happens to be further than most others. Similarly, power wanking generally only applies in situations where one player is attempting to "win" a confrontation as if it is a game. This is not the case. Eridan's power boost is meant as a plot device, that fades once he faces off against (at least) Kadoor and Pobeda. Writing a story requires narrative liberty and freedom to create scenes and threats. Playing a game requires fairness -
but this RP is not a game. It is a creative writing endeavour.

It's not really either

It is whatever the members make it, and in this case, I make it a writing tool. There are largely no counter-arguments to his boost, only refutations of the positive arguments.

"Narrative Liberty" is not what this is. This is blatantly making a Mary Sue character with unrealistic power compared to the other characters, and destroying the established canon about his character.

If going by the definition of a Mary Sue as "an unrealistically powerful character whose only defining feature is their perfection", then Eridan is not a Mary Sue. His defining feature is his motivation and power, but not his perfection. He is, in many ways, entirely imperfect emotionally. His only positive attributes whatsoever are in his dedication and physical ability. Emotionally, morally and psychologically, he is aberrant, and despicable.

Counter Argument: Everyone else in the room is as strong as him individually

Not if the application is accepted

Counter Argument: We've had this discussion before. Denied.

That previous discussion was when Eridan's boost was to planet and moon level. Now, it is only to "just enough to block precisely three attacks in a row", which is what he just did in the previous post. He is not necessarily able to "defeat" everyone in the room, only temporarily match them in power. The previous discussion was about his triumph.
This one is about his equality, and his AP has been downgraded to "large country level" as such.

Counter Argument: You're outnumbered in opinion. Ergo, you cannot win this discussion.

But there is no "win" or "lose" here. Those words have ugly connotations. There is only compromise. Whether Eridan truly becomes an unstoppable God or barely-above-average demihuman is not important. It is only important that he is at least able to briefly match The Traveller's inhabitants. It is better for everybody to either get rid of the dissident (I.E, banning me) or finding a middle ground.

Counter Argument: Eridan is pulling powers from his ass. Tzeentch doesn't work that way.

No. He might not. But it's nebulous, and as said before, if Eridan were an OC, these changes and evolutions would largely go under the radar.

Counter Argument: Even Villains don't get this level of power permanently. They die, sooner or later.

Eridan sort of dies quite soon. When he has his final confrontation with Kadoor, he loses every last bit of his Hope based power, his right arm, and the majority of his face.
There is nothing stopping Eridan from getting fucked up, but there is a lot against him being brushed off like an average level character.

Counter Argument: But Eridan is not a villain. He is clearly meant to be an anti-hero, seeing as how he's written in such a way

He might be written as an anti-hero, yes, but that is from his perspective. He's a far more morally inhumane person than almost any other villain thus far encountered.
Infinity was just insane, and tormented. Most of the other characters were "Disney Evil", or had primarily legitimate reasons. Eridan has semi-legitimate reasons, but they are outweighed by the fact that he's doing "the right thing for the wrong reasons" - I.E, reviving Alternia to rule over it as a God, and bringing back his friends so he can get his girlfriend back to himself.

Counter Argument: Eridan was never this strong, and Tzeentch's Blessing already makes him ridiculously powerful. He practically has no weaknesses. He's essentially an impenetrable character.

Invincible and incredibly powerful, maybe, since Hope works on the conceptual level (sort of). But not impenetrable. He can be emotionally manipulated, and demoralising him will reduce his "Hope", and thus reduce his power. Similarly, most other forms of attack will be able to defeat him, sooner or later. The entire arc is about how physical power doesn't necessarily grant someone "power", nor does it give them absolution. His only advantage is in physical ability.

Counter Argument: By that strain of logic, I could easily write Gardevoir or Elizabeth as being incredibly powerful for OC reasons, and have them defeat him through sudden unexplained power boosts too!

But that was not part of a pre-planned arc that has been ongoing for months now. Eridan's rise to astronomical power was made up a long time ago, and meticulously mapped out. He wasn't even meant to fight any of the other heroes, originally. The only reason he has to be so powerful now is in order to be "stronger than whoever's in front of him", which was originally going to be a bunch of wall-level characters, but now has escalated into legions of small-country level foes and telekinetic mages.

Counter Argument: Why not just have him lose this fight then, and fight the Troll Squad on equal terms later on?

Because losing a fight as soon as you talk yourself into doing something crazy, and just after generating a nuclear crater sort of takes the thunder out of everything. And again, his power is incredibly temporary. He will never achieve anything even coming close to this level of strength ever again. And this isn't a fight. Not unless you want it to be. This is a speech, and a declaration of intention and motivation. It's a monologue, not a battle. Because battles in a closed room are confusing to write, and serve no narrative purpose in this case.


I'm sure I repeated a lot of stuff there, and feel free to put up some more counter arguments.

[Naval Monte]

So Eridian would be a blood fountain if someone cut off a limb or blast his head to pieces?

[Truth Incarnate]

So Eridian would be a blood fountain if someone cut off a limb or blast his head to pieces?

http://31.media.tumblr.com/17b8db1404f9 ... 2_1280.gif
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b4/87/08 ... 6b73ea.gif

"Man, I sure am losing a lot of 8lood right now."
"We high8loods have a lot of the shit."

[Mundeo]

Revised character application (again-ish)

Also, can the formatting be changed? It's difficult to keep emboldening the sections on their own.

Name: Eridan Ampora

Ancient One Half blood?: No

Species: Troll

Age: 13 years, or 6 solar sweeps

Appearance: Big purple royal ensemble, hipster glasses, grey skin, violet blood, orange horns. Fairly tall.

Gender: Male.

Powers/abilities: Hope based telekinesis, beams, all that jazz. He can use it with or without his wand, but his wand lends him extra offensive power. He's basically an kinetokinetic(?), control over force. The blessing of Tzeentch, allowing boosts to his power and extremely obvious emotional manipulation. Superhuman characteristics. Able to breathe underwater. Has more blood than he knows what to do with.

Weaknesses: Taking him by surprise is very easy, and if he's not actively shielding himself, he's about as durable as a brick.

Attack Potency: Large country level.

Equipment: Ahab's Crosshairs. A rifle that shoots big booms. Large building level attacks, town level AP.

The Empiricist's Wand. An entirely mundane, shitty wooden stick.

Universe of Origin: Homestuck

Affiliation: Evil (Tzeentch). Later on, a tentative good.



Hey, look below
I added a thing
Well I mean you can feel free to not look below
It's...
Really long.

I know that most decisions are made while I am not present, so I'm going to put forward my words, your hypothetical ones (not to put words in your mouth) and the hypothetical, real answers.

Should Eridan be powerful enough to defeat the crew currently on The Traveler?

No. Eridan is not able to act as fast as Ty, does not have the attack potency to defeat any more than two at the same time, and any player character should not be strong enough to defeat an entire ensemble of heroes.

Response: A new application for Eridan, in which he is powerful enough to defeat the crew due to his large-country level attack potency, and his greatly boosted stats.

Eridan should not have large-country level attack potency and extraordinary speed, because that is power wanking

What if Eridan were an original character? Several other small-country to country level characters exist who are fully fledged heroes and player characters. The realm of "powerful" lies between country and continent level, while the realm of "extremely powerful" lies at moon level or above. Simply "powerful" characters exist quite commonly, and are relatively unquestioned in their actions. "extremely powerful" characters are very rare, but still exist, such as Draigo, Kongou and others.

But it's still power wanking - going by the definition of "Making a character illogically powerful, disregarding plot and pre-established logic"

However, there is plot reason for him to be powerful enough to perform these feats, namely setting up his relative unstoppability, and thus later subverting it with the Troll Squad's largely emotional and nonconventional attacks. "Illogically" is also refuted by the fact that if an original character application with country level attack potency were to be made, it is likely to be accepted quite readily.

But there's no plot precedence for this kind of power, and a normal player character should not be so powerful

Eridan has not been able to demonstrate his power thus far due to the collateral damage it would cause. Similarly, he is not a normal player character. He is an arc villain, albeit one that generally takes the background, and sometimes serves the heroes' interests. As has been noted, villain power levels are far more lenient than other characters' ones, and are generally less scrutinized. As such, due to his status as a villain, Eridan should be allowed power at least equal to the heroes' ensemble.

Eridan is not a villain, as he is a character from which a perspective is written, and made out to be a sympathetic-ish character

Eridan is not a good person. He is explicity, a villain. And villains, heroes and neutral parties can all have their perspective written into a story. Furthermore, there is no rule that villains are not allowed to have points, or even noble intentions. That is the hallmark of binary good and evil style writing, which is overplayed not only in general media, but in the vast majority of the RP's conflicts as well, rendering a subversion almost irresistible.

There is no reason for Eridan to be so powerful

On the contrary, Eridan is so powerful because he is the villain, and is therefore physically superior to any of the heroes. This is essentially a dichotomy of "strength" and "unity". Eridan is this powerful in order to establish that he is a threat, that he is truly fear-worthy, and to set up his later downfall to a status below that of nearly every other character in the entire RP. Furthermore, he was already potentially this powerful to begin with, though that strand of Homestuck related conjecture is largely hypothetical, and extremely long.

This is still power wanking a character for no good reason other than to temporarily have him be unrealistically badass and incredible

All heroes and villains in the story are unrealistically badass and incredible. Eridan just so happens to be further than most others. Similarly, power wanking generally only applies in situations where one player is attempting to "win" a confrontation as if it is a game. This is not the case. Eridan's power boost is meant as a plot device, that fades once he faces off against (at least) Kadoor and Pobeda. Writing a story requires narrative liberty and freedom to create scenes and threats. Playing a game requires fairness -
but this RP is not a game. It is a creative writing endeavour.

It's not really either

It is whatever the members make it, and in this case, I make it a writing tool. There are largely no counter-arguments to his boost, only refutations of the positive arguments.

"Narrative Liberty" is not what this is. This is blatantly making a Mary Sue character with unrealistic power compared to the other characters, and destroying the established canon about his character.

If going by the definition of a Mary Sue as "an unrealistically powerful character whose only defining feature is their perfection", then Eridan is not a Mary Sue. His defining feature is his motivation and power, but not his perfection. He is, in many ways, entirely imperfect emotionally. His only positive attributes whatsoever are in his dedication and physical ability. Emotionally, morally and psychologically, he is aberrant, and despicable.

Counter Argument: Everyone else in the room is as strong as him individually

Not if the application is accepted

Counter Argument: We've had this discussion before. Denied.

That previous discussion was when Eridan's boost was to planet and moon level. Now, it is only to "just enough to block precisely three attacks in a row", which is what he just did in the previous post. He is not necessarily able to "defeat" everyone in the room, only temporarily match them in power. The previous discussion was about his triumph.
This one is about his equality, and his AP has been downgraded to "large country level" as such.

Counter Argument: You're outnumbered in opinion. Ergo, you cannot win this discussion.

But there is no "win" or "lose" here. Those words have ugly connotations. There is only compromise. Whether Eridan truly becomes an unstoppable God or barely-above-average demihuman is not important. It is only important that he is at least able to briefly match The Traveller's inhabitants. It is better for everybody to either get rid of the dissident (I.E, banning me) or finding a middle ground.

Counter Argument: Eridan is pulling powers from his ass. Tzeentch doesn't work that way.

No. He might not. But it's nebulous, and as said before, if Eridan were an OC, these changes and evolutions would largely go under the radar.

Counter Argument: Even Villains don't get this level of power permanently. They die, sooner or later.

Eridan sort of dies quite soon. When he has his final confrontation with Kadoor, he loses every last bit of his Hope based power, his right arm, and the majority of his face.
There is nothing stopping Eridan from getting fucked up, but there is a lot against him being brushed off like an average level character.

Counter Argument: But Eridan is not a villain. He is clearly meant to be an anti-hero, seeing as how he's written in such a way

He might be written as an anti-hero, yes, but that is from his perspective. He's a far more morally inhumane person than almost any other villain thus far encountered.
Infinity was just insane, and tormented. Most of the other characters were "Disney Evil", or had primarily legitimate reasons. Eridan has semi-legitimate reasons, but they are outweighed by the fact that he's doing "the right thing for the wrong reasons" - I.E, reviving Alternia to rule over it as a God, and bringing back his friends so he can get his girlfriend back to himself.

Counter Argument: Eridan was never this strong, and Tzeentch's Blessing already makes him ridiculously powerful. He practically has no weaknesses. He's essentially an impenetrable character.

Invincible and incredibly powerful, maybe, since Hope works on the conceptual level (sort of). But not impenetrable. He can be emotionally manipulated, and demoralising him will reduce his "Hope", and thus reduce his power. Similarly, most other forms of attack will be able to defeat him, sooner or later. The entire arc is about how physical power doesn't necessarily grant someone "power", nor does it give them absolution. His only advantage is in physical ability.

Counter Argument: By that strain of logic, I could easily write Gardevoir or Elizabeth as being incredibly powerful for OC reasons, and have them defeat him through sudden unexplained power boosts too!

But that was not part of a pre-planned arc that has been ongoing for months now. Eridan's rise to astronomical power was made up a long time ago, and meticulously mapped out. He wasn't even meant to fight any of the other heroes, originally. The only reason he has to be so powerful now is in order to be "stronger than whoever's in front of him", which was originally going to be a bunch of wall-level characters, but now has escalated into legions of small-country level foes and telekinetic mages.

Counter Argument: Why not just have him lose this fight then, and fight the Troll Squad on equal terms later on?

Because losing a fight as soon as you talk yourself into doing something crazy, and just after generating a nuclear crater sort of takes the thunder out of everything. And again, his power is incredibly temporary. He will never achieve anything even coming close to this level of strength ever again. And this isn't a fight. Not unless you want it to be. This is a speech, and a declaration of intention and motivation. It's a monologue, not a battle. Because battles in a closed room are confusing to write, and serve no narrative purpose in this case.


I'm sure I repeated a lot of stuff there, and feel free to put up some more counter arguments.

It looks like you actually acknowledge the fact that this was already dealt with, so incase you've forgotten our verdict...

NO

[Wheatley Laboratories]

Revised character application (again-ish)

Also, can the formatting be changed? It's difficult to keep emboldening the sections on their own.

Name: Eridan Ampora

Ancient One Half blood?: No

Species: Troll

Age: 13 years, or 6 solar sweeps

Appearance: Big purple royal ensemble, hipster glasses, grey skin, violet blood, orange horns. Fairly tall.

Gender: Male.

Powers/abilities: Hope based telekinesis, beams, all that jazz. He can use it with or without his wand, but his wand lends him extra offensive power. He's basically an kinetokinetic(?), control over force. The blessing of Tzeentch, allowing boosts to his power and extremely obvious emotional manipulation. Superhuman characteristics. Able to breathe underwater. Has more blood than he knows what to do with.

Weaknesses: Taking him by surprise is very easy, and if he's not actively shielding himself, he's about as durable as a brick.

Attack Potency: Large country level.

Equipment: Ahab's Crosshairs. A rifle that shoots big booms. Large building level attacks, town level AP.

The Empiricist's Wand. An entirely mundane, shitty wooden stick.

Universe of Origin: Homestuck

Affiliation: Evil (Tzeentch). Later on, a tentative good.



Hey, look below
I added a thing
Well I mean you can feel free to not look below
It's...
Really long.

I know that most decisions are made while I am not present, so I'm going to put forward my words, your hypothetical ones (not to put words in your mouth) and the hypothetical, real answers.

Should Eridan be powerful enough to defeat the crew currently on The Traveler?

No. Eridan is not able to act as fast as Ty, does not have the attack potency to defeat any more than two at the same time, and any player character should not be strong enough to defeat an entire ensemble of heroes.

Response: A new application for Eridan, in which he is powerful enough to defeat the crew due to his large-country level attack potency, and his greatly boosted stats.

Eridan should not have large-country level attack potency and extraordinary speed, because that is power wanking

What if Eridan were an original character? Several other small-country to country level characters exist who are fully fledged heroes and player characters. The realm of "powerful" lies between country and continent level, while the realm of "extremely powerful" lies at moon level or above. Simply "powerful" characters exist quite commonly, and are relatively unquestioned in their actions. "extremely powerful" characters are very rare, but still exist, such as Draigo, Kongou and others.

But it's still power wanking - going by the definition of "Making a character illogically powerful, disregarding plot and pre-established logic"

However, there is plot reason for him to be powerful enough to perform these feats, namely setting up his relative unstoppability, and thus later subverting it with the Troll Squad's largely emotional and nonconventional attacks. "Illogically" is also refuted by the fact that if an original character application with country level attack potency were to be made, it is likely to be accepted quite readily.

But there's no plot precedence for this kind of power, and a normal player character should not be so powerful

Eridan has not been able to demonstrate his power thus far due to the collateral damage it would cause. Similarly, he is not a normal player character. He is an arc villain, albeit one that generally takes the background, and sometimes serves the heroes' interests. As has been noted, villain power levels are far more lenient than other characters' ones, and are generally less scrutinized. As such, due to his status as a villain, Eridan should be allowed power at least equal to the heroes' ensemble.

Eridan is not a villain, as he is a character from which a perspective is written, and made out to be a sympathetic-ish character

Eridan is not a good person. He is explicity, a villain. And villains, heroes and neutral parties can all have their perspective written into a story. Furthermore, there is no rule that villains are not allowed to have points, or even noble intentions. That is the hallmark of binary good and evil style writing, which is overplayed not only in general media, but in the vast majority of the RP's conflicts as well, rendering a subversion almost irresistible.

There is no reason for Eridan to be so powerful

On the contrary, Eridan is so powerful because he is the villain, and is therefore physically superior to any of the heroes. This is essentially a dichotomy of "strength" and "unity". Eridan is this powerful in order to establish that he is a threat, that he is truly fear-worthy, and to set up his later downfall to a status below that of nearly every other character in the entire RP. Furthermore, he was already potentially this powerful to begin with, though that strand of Homestuck related conjecture is largely hypothetical, and extremely long.

This is still power wanking a character for no good reason other than to temporarily have him be unrealistically badass and incredible

All heroes and villains in the story are unrealistically badass and incredible. Eridan just so happens to be further than most others. Similarly, power wanking generally only applies in situations where one player is attempting to "win" a confrontation as if it is a game. This is not the case. Eridan's power boost is meant as a plot device, that fades once he faces off against (at least) Kadoor and Pobeda. Writing a story requires narrative liberty and freedom to create scenes and threats. Playing a game requires fairness -
but this RP is not a game. It is a creative writing endeavour.

It's not really either

It is whatever the members make it, and in this case, I make it a writing tool. There are largely no counter-arguments to his boost, only refutations of the positive arguments.

"Narrative Liberty" is not what this is. This is blatantly making a Mary Sue character with unrealistic power compared to the other characters, and destroying the established canon about his character.

If going by the definition of a Mary Sue as "an unrealistically powerful character whose only defining feature is their perfection", then Eridan is not a Mary Sue. His defining feature is his motivation and power, but not his perfection. He is, in many ways, entirely imperfect emotionally. His only positive attributes whatsoever are in his dedication and physical ability. Emotionally, morally and psychologically, he is aberrant, and despicable.

Counter Argument: Everyone else in the room is as strong as him individually

Not if the application is accepted

Counter Argument: We've had this discussion before. Denied.

That previous discussion was when Eridan's boost was to planet and moon level. Now, it is only to "just enough to block precisely three attacks in a row", which is what he just did in the previous post. He is not necessarily able to "defeat" everyone in the room, only temporarily match them in power. The previous discussion was about his triumph.
This one is about his equality, and his AP has been downgraded to "large country level" as such.

Counter Argument: You're outnumbered in opinion. Ergo, you cannot win this discussion.

But there is no "win" or "lose" here. Those words have ugly connotations. There is only compromise. Whether Eridan truly becomes an unstoppable God or barely-above-average demihuman is not important. It is only important that he is at least able to briefly match The Traveller's inhabitants. It is better for everybody to either get rid of the dissident (I.E, banning me) or finding a middle ground.

Counter Argument: Eridan is pulling powers from his ass. Tzeentch doesn't work that way.

No. He might not. But it's nebulous, and as said before, if Eridan were an OC, these changes and evolutions would largely go under the radar.

Counter Argument: Even Villains don't get this level of power permanently. They die, sooner or later.

Eridan sort of dies quite soon. When he has his final confrontation with Kadoor, he loses every last bit of his Hope based power, his right arm, and the majority of his face.
There is nothing stopping Eridan from getting fucked up, but there is a lot against him being brushed off like an average level character.

Counter Argument: But Eridan is not a villain. He is clearly meant to be an anti-hero, seeing as how he's written in such a way

He might be written as an anti-hero, yes, but that is from his perspective. He's a far more morally inhumane person than almost any other villain thus far encountered.
Infinity was just insane, and tormented. Most of the other characters were "Disney Evil", or had primarily legitimate reasons. Eridan has semi-legitimate reasons, but they are outweighed by the fact that he's doing "the right thing for the wrong reasons" - I.E, reviving Alternia to rule over it as a God, and bringing back his friends so he can get his girlfriend back to himself.

Counter Argument: Eridan was never this strong, and Tzeentch's Blessing already makes him ridiculously powerful. He practically has no weaknesses. He's essentially an impenetrable character.

Invincible and incredibly powerful, maybe, since Hope works on the conceptual level (sort of). But not impenetrable. He can be emotionally manipulated, and demoralising him will reduce his "Hope", and thus reduce his power. Similarly, most other forms of attack will be able to defeat him, sooner or later. The entire arc is about how physical power doesn't necessarily grant someone "power", nor does it give them absolution. His only advantage is in physical ability.

Counter Argument: By that strain of logic, I could easily write Gardevoir or Elizabeth as being incredibly powerful for OC reasons, and have them defeat him through sudden unexplained power boosts too!

But that was not part of a pre-planned arc that has been ongoing for months now. Eridan's rise to astronomical power was made up a long time ago, and meticulously mapped out. He wasn't even meant to fight any of the other heroes, originally. The only reason he has to be so powerful now is in order to be "stronger than whoever's in front of him", which was originally going to be a bunch of wall-level characters, but now has escalated into legions of small-country level foes and telekinetic mages.

Counter Argument: Why not just have him lose this fight then, and fight the Troll Squad on equal terms later on?

Because losing a fight as soon as you talk yourself into doing something crazy, and just after generating a nuclear crater sort of takes the thunder out of everything. And again, his power is incredibly temporary. He will never achieve anything even coming close to this level of strength ever again. And this isn't a fight. Not unless you want it to be. This is a speech, and a declaration of intention and motivation. It's a monologue, not a battle. Because battles in a closed room are confusing to write, and serve no narrative purpose in this case.


I'm sure I repeated a lot of stuff there, and feel free to put up some more counter arguments.

It looks like you actually acknowledge the fact that this was already dealt with, so incase you've forgotten our verdict...

NO

Did you read the spoilered text? Truth's made some good points to combat your claims of "power wanking" etc.

[Mundeo]

Eridan’s power has already been established by when he fought Kadoor. There is no reason why we need a whole new app just to say he’s more powerful than the entire Traveller crew other than to just boast that Eridan is more powerful.

You want to know what your limitations for Tzeentch’s powers are, Truth, ask IRE. He gave them, so he decides what they are.

[The Intergalactic Russian Empire]

Eridan’s power has already been established by when he fought Kadoor. There is no reason why we need a whole new app just to say he’s more powerful than the entire Traveller crew other than to just boast that Eridan is more powerful.

You want to know what your limitations for Tzeentch’s powers are, Truth, ask IRE. He gave them, so he decides what they are.

Okay Truth, here's my decision, Eridan's max AP/DP will be Mountain Level, but his power depends on his connection to the Warp and he can only reach that level when he his connection is strong (IE: in the Warhammer-verse or in another place where the Warp has began intruding, but only I decide if the Warp ever intrudes into another place) and right now he is not Mountain Level due to weak connection to the Warp and he is currently at City Block level AP/DP.

So says the word of Tzeentch!

[Truth Incarnate]

Eridan’s power has already been established by when he fought Kadoor. There is no reason why we need a whole new app just to say he’s more powerful than the entire Traveller crew other than to just boast that Eridan is more powerful.

You want to know what your limitations for Tzeentch’s powers are, Truth, ask IRE. He gave them, so he decides what they are.

Okay Truth, here's my decision, Eridan's max AP/DP will be Mountain Level, but his power depends on his connection to the Warp and he can only reach that level when he his connection is strong (IE: in the Warhammer-verse or in another place where the Warp has began intruding, but only I decide if the Warp ever intrudes into another place) and right now he is not Mountain Level due to weak connection to the Warp and he is currently at City Block level AP/DP.

So says the word of Tzeentch!

But that just means he dies as soon as he enters the room

Ty has small country level AP


And this is a compromise. My previous application had Eridan reaching moon levels of power. This one only places him at a similar level to Ty, which is a far less significant boost. I just think there's a stigma that lingers with the misappropriated labelling of "power wanking" where it doesn't belong, but still somehow manages to end the conversation there and then.


Edit: You know what, it's actually very transparent that there's not going to be any minds changed here. I've literally never gotten my way before, and I'm not going to.

Eridan can die, if you want. I can retcon the post to have Ty kill him.