1870 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC]

[The V O I D]

Not saying that. What I'm saying is that one can't handwave away issues as if they don't exist if they don't want the issues, and communist revolutionary ideals would be a serious issue especially in countries with direct borders to France.

Therefor, I think it is the duty of the OP Board to sort of, if I can't, RP as smugglers and rebels and such. This way it is neutral (or as neutral as can be) and players have something else to react to aside from what they pick and choose to react to.

@DEA. Ah, interesting...

It's not that issues would be handwaved away, necessarily, it's that every player has sovereignty over his/her nation. As such, you cannot roleplay events and results that directly affect another nation without their consent and (usually) assistance. It works both ways: you won't be sending in rabble rousers to spark a revolution in a neighbour's capital, and others won't be infiltration your nation to give Gordon Gecko speeches convincing them that greed is good.

I know. Just seems off, idk.

[Cymrea]

I checked all the accepted apps.

I already have a reservation for most of that land and have recently had my app accepted by an OP (Unless any other ones have complaints about it). The point is even if they do I still have that land reserved for 24+ hours due to when my reservation was placed.

Just a point to note: the 48 hour reservation period is the time you have to submit a reasonably completed app. Once your app is under consideration, your reservation holds while you make adjustments.

[Tracian Empire]

It's not that issues would be handwaved away, necessarily, it's that every player has sovereignty over his/her nation. As such, you cannot roleplay events and results that directly affect another nation without their consent and (usually) assistance. It works both ways: you won't be sending in rabble rousers to spark a revolution in a neighbour's capital, and others won't be infiltration your nation to give Gordon Gecko speeches convincing them that greed is good.

I know. Just seems off, idk.

It's not off, it just makes it so that everyone can have fun, and it will avoid the countless arguments that would be sparked like that. As an example, I don't see a communist revolution ever happening in the Imperium, no matter of what happens.

[Novacom]

It's not that issues would be handwaved away, necessarily, it's that every player has sovereignty over his/her nation. As such, you cannot roleplay events and results that directly affect another nation without their consent and (usually) assistance. It works both ways: you won't be sending in rabble rousers to spark a revolution in a neighbour's capital, and others won't be infiltration your nation to give Gordon Gecko speeches convincing them that greed is good.

I know. Just seems off, idk.

Not off at all, it's the same as someone else RPing you into a civil war and then total collapse, not far or right on you when you have the levers of power in your state to control not someone else, some nations will not easily be converted or at all, others are more plausible.

[Cymrea]

It's not that issues would be handwaved away, necessarily, it's that every player has sovereignty over his/her nation. As such, you cannot roleplay events and results that directly affect another nation without their consent and (usually) assistance. It works both ways: you won't be sending in rabble rousers to spark a revolution in a neighbour's capital, and others won't be infiltration your nation to give Gordon Gecko speeches convincing them that greed is good.

I know. Just seems off, idk.

If it helps, I will be working with you to affect some small changes in Cambria, directly influenced by your efforts. The end result - just so everyone knows where I'm headed with this - will be expanded social programmes and increased union rights, but there won't be a violent revolt. Cambria has a fair bit of social programming in place already, so there's no significant undercurrent of rage or frustration against the Crown and Government.

[Dires]

Not saying that. What I'm saying is that one can't handwave away issues as if they don't exist if they don't want the issues, and communist revolutionary ideals would be a serious issue especially in countries with direct borders to France.

Therefor, I think it is the duty of the OP Board to sort of, if I can't, RP as smugglers and rebels and such. This way it is neutral (or as neutral as can be) and players have something else to react to aside from what they pick and choose to react to.

@DEA. Ah, interesting...

It's not that issues would be handwaved away, necessarily, it's that every player has sovereignty over his/her nation. As such, you cannot roleplay events and results that directly affect another nation without their consent and (usually) assistance. It works both ways: you won't be sending in rabble rousers to spark a revolution in a neighbour's capital, and others won't be infiltration your nation to give Gordon Gecko speeches convincing them that greed is good.

It sounds like to me that France or Italy should post a worldwide Communism boosting guidance.

[The V O I D]

I know. Just seems off, idk.

It's not off, it just makes it so that everyone can have fun, and it will avoid the countless arguments that would be sparked like that. As an example, I don't see a communist revolution ever happening in the Imperium, no matter of what happens.

I understand that. But a revolt or riots and such happening in eastern Spain or western Germany isn't so far fetched, with how easily communist ideals would permeate at the border (plus, France's socialist movement is still going strong; the people are still extremely anti-capitalist and propaganda and such is fueling that).

@Nova. That's what I'm saying - I don't want to pull the levers, I'm not saying I want it to succeed no matter what. I'm just saying that in countries with borders direct with France, they should face communist revolts/riots and such (especially if they harshly punish or outlaw communism) as like national events or something, at least along that border or near it. Whether it succeeds or fails should be up to the player in question, but with OP intervention if and only if the player seems to be godmodding the problem away somehow (e.g. if a communist full on revolt is going down that is like, taking control of cities or provinces, they can't just say 'the army moved in and then it was quickly stamped out').

I'm not saying I would control their communists - only mine, some of which may smuggle and interact with their communists who they would control (hopefully in a realistic fashion that doesn't end in a biased curbstomping).

[Tracian Empire]

It's not off, it just makes it so that everyone can have fun, and it will avoid the countless arguments that would be sparked like that. As an example, I don't see a communist revolution ever happening in the Imperium, no matter of what happens.

I understand that. But a revolt or riots and such happening in eastern Spain or western Germany isn't so far fetched, with how easily communist ideals would permeate at the border (plus, France's socialist movement is still going strong; the people are still extremely anti-capitalist and propaganda and such is fueling that).

@Nova. That's what I'm saying - I don't want to pull the levers, I'm not saying I want it to succeed no matter what. I'm just saying that in countries with borders direct with France, they should face communist revolts/riots and such (especially if they harshly punish or outlaw communism) as like national events or something, at least along that border or near it. Whether it succeeds or fails should be up to the player in question, but with OP intervention if and only if the player seems to be godmodding the problem away somehow (e.g. if a communist full on revolt is going down that is like, taking control of cities or provinces, they can't just say 'the army moved in and then it was quickly stamped out').

I'm not saying I would control their communists - only mine, some of which may smuggle and interact with their communists who they would control (hopefully in a realistic fashion that doesn't end in a biased curbstomping).

Not necessarily. It also depends on the reputation of your nation, and the own policies of those nations.

[Dires]

Is petroleum in heavy use at this time yet? I could add to my app that I'm facing an oil shortage

[Cymrea]

I'm not saying I would control their communists - only mine, some of which may smuggle and interact with their communists who they would control (hopefully in a realistic fashion that doesn't end in a biased curbstomping).

That's if they agree that your guys get into their country without being caught.

[Cymrea]

Is petroleum in heavy use at this time yet? I could add to my app that I'm facing an oil shortage

I would say coal is the predominant fuel right now. Internal combustion is a couple of decades off yet.

Japan has little to none of both. You could add that to your app as part of a naval weakness: reliant on trade to fuel ships.

[The V O I D]

It's not that issues would be handwaved away, necessarily, it's that every player has sovereignty over his/her nation. As such, you cannot roleplay events and results that directly affect another nation without their consent and (usually) assistance. It works both ways: you won't be sending in rabble rousers to spark a revolution in a neighbour's capital, and others won't be infiltration your nation to give Gordon Gecko speeches convincing them that greed is good.

It sounds like to me that France or Italy should post a worldwide Communism boosting guidance.

I did a guidance with my FSR app that made communist ideals permeate strongly into France and made Marxist-Pierrean thought the mainstream communist thought in communists throughout Western Europe, as well as making them more quick to act if they decide to revolt due to being a lot more radical (because Marxist-Pierrean communism is rather radical). Mainly effected Western Europe [Iberia, France, Italy, Germany, and Cambria] and essentially made socialists a bit more prominent and a bit more radical.

I don't think it was accepted or denied ever, it just sorta got ignored. I think another reason confusion is arising is because I've been assuming that maybe the reason the guidance seems to have been ignored is because I missed it being accepted or denied already.

@Nova/Thrace; fair point, but yeah.

[Dires]

Is petroleum in heavy use at this time yet? I could add to my app that I'm facing an oil shortage

I would say coal is the predominant fuel right now. Internal combustion is a couple of decades off yet.

Japan has little to none of both. You could add that to your app as part of a naval weakness: reliant on trade to fuel ships.

I'll do that.

[Cymrea]

It sounds like to me that France or Italy should post a worldwide Communism boosting guidance.

I did a guidance with my FSR app that made communist ideals permeate strongly into France and made Marxist-Pierrean thought the mainstream communist thought in communists throughout Western Europe, as well as making them more quick to act if they decide to revolt due to being a lot more radical (because Marxist-Pierrean communism is rather radical). Mainly effected Western Europe [Iberia, France, Italy, Germany, and Cambria] and essentially made socialists a bit more prominent and a bit more radical.

I don't think it was accepted or denied ever, it just sorta got ignored. I think another reason confusion is arising is because I've been assuming that maybe the reason the guidance seems to have been ignored is because I missed it being accepted or denied already.

@Nova/Thrace; fair point, but yeah.

RL fascism took hold in Germany and then Italy, while other immediate neighbours were wary, then adamantly opposed. Your communism is already spreading to Spain and Italy...you're already more successful than the Nazis.

[Tracian Empire]

I can not comment about other nations, but communism is unlikely to become popular in any parts of the Roman Empire for the foreseeable future. Mainly because of the conservative, traditionalist, and reactionary society, the strong nationalism and monarchism, the fact that the syncretic Roman type of government is already balancing a lot of things well enough, the fact that Roman citizens enjoy quite a couple of rights and freedoms, even more than in other nations most likely. And the Romans put a lot of accent on the individual rights of the citizen, so workers aren't going to be that much abused.

And the general role of communists is already taken by the vaguely liberal and mostly plebeian Vox Populi.

[The V O I D]

I did a guidance with my FSR app that made communist ideals permeate strongly into France and made Marxist-Pierrean thought the mainstream communist thought in communists throughout Western Europe, as well as making them more quick to act if they decide to revolt due to being a lot more radical (because Marxist-Pierrean communism is rather radical). Mainly effected Western Europe [Iberia, France, Italy, Germany, and Cambria] and essentially made socialists a bit more prominent and a bit more radical.

I don't think it was accepted or denied ever, it just sorta got ignored. I think another reason confusion is arising is because I've been assuming that maybe the reason the guidance seems to have been ignored is because I missed it being accepted or denied already.

@Nova/Thrace; fair point, but yeah.

RL fascism took hold in Germany and then Italy, while other immediate neighbours were wary, then adamantly opposed. Your communism is already spreading to Spain and Italy...you're already more successful than the Nazis.

Fair enough... fair enough.

So, if this RP succeeds more than previous iterations and we get to modern times, I feel like Communism will be the fascism of this timeline, with Modern Communists using Marxist-Pierrean thought as their base ideology and being just as radical. Tattoos of the hammer, sickle and torch for the liberty and freedom of workers and people everywhere would likely end up being the swastika tattoos of this timeline.

Among other things. It'll be fun.

[Cymrea]

-bollixed-

[Cymrea]

RL fascism took hold in Germany and then Italy, while other immediate neighbours were wary, then adamantly opposed. Your communism is already spreading to Spain and Italy...you're already more successful than the Nazis.

Fair enough... fair enough.

So, if this RP succeeds more than previous iterations and we get to modern times, I feel like Communism will be the fascism of this timeline, with Modern Communists using Marxist-Pierrean thought as their base ideology and being just as radical. Tattoos of the hammer, sickle and torch for the liberty and freedom of workers and people everywhere would likely end up being the swastika tattoos of this timeline.

Among other things. It'll be fun.

AH Max Berry will ban the hammer and sickle; swastikas will appear only on Jainist flags cuz none of the teen edgelords will care about fascism.

[The V O I D]

Fair enough... fair enough.

So, if this RP succeeds more than previous iterations and we get to modern times, I feel like Communism will be the fascism of this timeline, with Modern Communists using Marxist-Pierrean thought as their base ideology and being just as radical. Tattoos of the hammer, sickle and torch for the liberty and freedom of workers and people everywhere would likely end up being the swastika tattoos of this timeline.

Among other things. It'll be fun.

AH Max Berry will ban the hammer and sickle; swastikas will appear only on Jainist flags cuz none of the teen edgelords will care about fascism.

Kek. Well, it's not a hammer and sickle; more of a hammer, pick/hoe sorta garden tool or something, and a torch. At least, that's what the FSR has on its flag (also used it cause it looked cool!).

Hammer and sickle? Fine, it hints at communism; not necessarily bad. FSR's hammer, pick and torch or some variation of it? Banned, because that's obviously Marxist-Pierrean.

[Dires]

Added weaknesses to army and navy. I'm no Mary Sue haha

Full Nation Name : The Greater Japanese Empire, 大日本帝国, Dai Nippon Teikoku
Majority/Official Culture : Japanese with very slight Korean influences
Territorial Core : Modern Japan, Northern half of Taiwan, Korea, Kamchatka, Primorsky Krai, Kamchatka Krai, Khabarovsk Krai, Sakhalin (including Kurils) Oblast, Magadan Oblast, Chukotka, Alaska, Phillippines, Hawaii, Palau, Mariana Islands, Wake Atoll, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Midway Wake and Johnston Atolls. Dominion over East Pacific and Dominance of Pacific trade.
Territorial Claim : Pacific Islands in general, perhaps more of Siberia. Dominion over the South Pacific
Capital City : Two Capitals: Kyoto and Tokyo
Population : 55 million

Government Type : Constitutional Imperial Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : Imperialist, Economic, Naval Dominance
Much like the Chinese Emperor's Mandates of Heaven, the Japanese Emperors are viewed as semi-divine protectors of Japanese civilization. They seek to assimilate those whom they perceive to have remained backwards and powerless. The empire offers great economic development to all citizens and autonomy to those who voluntarily join. In line with these goals, the Pacific Empire rests on three key principles.
1. Loyalty to the Emperor, the citizens of the Japanese Empire, and the preservation of East Asian power
2. Advancement of the Material and Cultural Development of the Empire and its citizens.
3. Commitment to Strengthening Naval Power, the Sword and Armor of the Empire
Government Focus : Imperialist, Economic, Cultural
Head of State : Emperor Meiji
Head of Government : Ultimate authority lies with Emperor Meiji but he works with his Prime Minister, Sakamoto Ryoma to carry out his reforms.
Government Description : As a Constitutional Imperial Monarchy, the Emperor is head of both the state and government. His government is structured as an imperial bureaucracy with the Emperor on top, his Imperial Council of Ministers below him as an executive branch, the Prime Minister and his party leading the legislative branch (who win power through Parliamentary elections) in parallel. Ultimately, however, the Emperor has final veto power on legislation. The Imperial Courts are organized wholly independent and exist to interpret the Japanese Constitution. As a result of the absorption of Korea in 1598, some of the Confucian Scholarly tradition has been adopted into the Emperor's bureaucratic structure

Majority/State Religion : Shinto with Zen Buddhism syncretism
Religious Description : Shinto is a blend of indigenous Japanese folk practices, court manners, and spirit-worship which dates back to at least 600 AD. When the Tokugawa Shogunate fell to the Imperial Restoration, Emperor Kotei saw the wisdom in strengthening national unity and in pursuit of this goal, consolidated Shintoism into a national state ideology. This would bolster the belief that the Emperor and his line were direct descendants of Amaterasu and the other gods who originally created Japan. Japanese Buddhism was incorporated into this system as additional moral guidance and state structure. For the state, Shinto is seen as a non-religious moral tradition and patriotic practice.

Economic Ideologies : Mercantilism and State-Directed Capitalism though social welfare security nets in the form of food and shelter in return for state labor are available.
Major Production : Industrial Equipment, Ships (Commercial and Military), Arms Production, Rice, Textiles, Rich in Natural Resources (Particularly oil, coal, timber, and minerals including gold).
Economic Description : As result of Japan's successful annexation and integration of Korea, it experienced a rapid economic boom which in turn fueled expansion northwards and across the Pacific in pursuit of additional natural resources to sustain this growth. Coupled with China's early industrialization, Japan followed in suit to ensure that it could compete. As a result, the Imperial Home Islands and the Korean peninsula (known as Kanshu) are highly industrialized. In terms of composition, the Japan economy is built on the foundation of State-controlled Zaibatsu (vast clan-led companies) whom focus on industrial expansion, improved agricultural yields, naval and arms production, and resource extraction from the northern colonies. Despite the power of the zaibatsu, the private economy is a healthy animal, fed by private consumer demand and the textile industry.

Japan plays a similar role in Asia the Cambrians play worldwide, serving as favored source of financial and shipping services in the Pacific, engaging in great amount of global trade while maintaining a powerhouse domestic production and resources base. Japanese ships are famed worldwide for their quality.

Army Strength : With a standing professional army of 250,000, the IJA (Imperial Japanese Army) is famed for their fanatical devotion and loyalty to the Emperor, as well as their innovative field and long range artillery doctrine. All Japanese males undergo brief military training as a high school requisite. Infantry are supplied with breach-loading repeater rifles of quality domestic make. In terms of experience, IJA has had the opportunity to gain experience fighting in all types of terrain, subduing barbarians in the tundras of Siberia, the jungles of Taiwan, and in particular, the landing and establishment of control over islands.
Army Weakness : Though the IJA is a modern and formidable army, it plays second fiddle to the IJN and is thinly spread out over the Pacific possessions.
Naval Strength : Quality and Quantity. Japan's naval power, alongside with the rest of the Japanese economy, has profited greatly from the successful integration of the former Korean peninsula, and the various Northern colonies rich in natural resources and as a result has been able to produce many world-class shipyards who churn out armored and outright iron ships for the IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy), zaibatsu shipping, and commercial sale to both domestic and foreign consumers. Japanese naval development and doctrine is on the cutting edge as it this Japanese naval power that serves as a backbone for the island-based trade empire. IJN is comprised of 300 ships (combat and non-combat) in total, 120 of which are ironclads or iron hulled ships, favoring 11' and 15' guns designed to pierce armor, crewed and serviced by 75,000 men. As one of the top two navies in the world, only the Cambrians rival Japan in the number of modern iron-clads commissioned. The flag ship, Amaterasu, has just sailed out of imperial shipping yards and as one of the most powerful battleships in existence, is the pride and joy of the IJN.
Naval Weakness : Projection. Japan's is a top naval power. However, it has chosen to center the majority of this power in the Pacific. Occasionally squadrons can be found around the world for various trade and diplomatic missions, as well as to secure shipping lanes but by and large, the IJN is found in the Pacific. Additionally, Japan's decision to be a leading nation in ironclad technology, combined with its relative lack of coal, requires it to be reliant on commercial trade with other countries, primarily China, to fuel its navy.
Further Military Description : Imperial Japan undeniably rules the Pacific through naval might, though the Cambrians prove themselves to be worthy rivals. As one of the top two navies in the world, the IJN is the guarantor of the lucrative China trade. Because of domestic coal shortages, it also relies on this trade. The Imperial Army may lack in funding compared to the Imperial Navy but it still possesses some of the fiercest soldiers in the world, famed for their fanatical discipline and morale.

National Goals : To Bring Glory to the Emperor and Prosperity to the Empire
National Issues : Combatting the influence of Western ideologies such as Christianity and paganism. Colonial Policy. Diplomatic Relations.
National Figures of Interest : Prime Minister Sakamoto Ryoma, Defence Minister Saigo Takamori, Imperial Prince Komatsu
National Ambition/Aspirations : Asia for Asians and Maintenance of the Pacific as Japanese domain. Become less reliant on foreign trade for fuel.

History :
In 1598, the Korean Peninsula was successfully conquered by the Japanese warlord Toyotomi Hideyoshi after he was able to secure a peace deal with the Ming Empire, ceding it's former vassal to the Japanese in exchange for nominal displays of tribute to the Dragon Throne. However, after the Ming collapse, and the Imperial restoration, these nominal tributes ended. This was mostly due to the nature of political reality. While the last Ming Emperor hung himself behind the Forbidden City as his capital was being taken, his successor and family fled to Japan. The Imperial Japanese family, though not politically powerful at the time, offered refuge. Eventually the two families intermarried - truly an Imperial and ancient family.

The Tokugawa had ruled with wisdom and strength throughout the 1600's, binding the national sense of identity and culture together. Additionally, through mandatory intermarriage, encouraged Japanese migration to the peninsula, and effective cultural suppression, the Koreans were thoroughly absorbed into the empire with little distinguishing them from their homeland fellows. Relations with China were cultivated to maintain trade and peace and so the Shogunate encouraged colonization northward, as well as the northern half of Taiwan and on islands westward. However, the Tokugawa's power waned in the late 18th-century as Japan became split over whether or not to adopt China's example in opening up their country to industrialization and re-order. Some argued the necessity for Japan to modernize it's military and economic structures so that it could continue to defend itself and compete against global merchants and Western powers. The conservative faction disagreed, feeling only anger at foreigners for corrupting Japan. Ultimately this led to Emperor Kotei in 1780, breaking long-held precedent in imperial abstention from political matters, issuing the Order to Expel Barbarians in the spirit of the popular movement "Sonno Joi". Sonno Joi, or "Revere the Emperor, Expel the Barbarians" led to several murders of Chinese and Western merchants and foreign retaliation was severe, demonstrating that feeble, traditional struggle would not be a feasible solution to Japan's weakness. With the Shogunate weakened from foreign retribution it was not responsible for, opposition forces rallied around Emperor Komei and the cause for Imperial restoration to power. The Boshin Civil War, lasting from 1785-1787, saw the modernization of Japanese military, naval, and infrastructure as both Shogunate and Imperial factions sought to gain advantage. Ultimately, the Imperial cause won and Emperor Komei was the first Emperor in centuries to formally lead Japan as both head of state and government.

Following the Komei Restoration, the Emperor issued the Charter Oath of 1788 which laid the foundation for what the new empire would be.

"By this oath, we set up as our aim the establishment of the national weal on a broad basis and the framing of a constitution and laws.

1. Deliberative assemblies shall be widely established and all matters decided by open discussion.
2. All classes, high and low, shall be united in vigorously carrying out the administration of affairs of state.
3. The common people, no less than the civil and military officials, shall all be allowed to pursue their own calling so that there may be no discontent.
4. Evil customs of the past shall be broken off and everything based upon the just laws of Nature.
5. Knowledge shall be sought throughout the world so as to strengthen the foundation of imperial rule"

In the years and periods that followed, Japan's social structure, government, military, and economy would be wholly reformed and modernized with the guidance of the Emperors and their loyal ministers. At Komei's death in 1801, Japan had become one of the great industrialized powers of the world. Of particular note was Emperor Jumon, grandson of Komei, who laid the foundations for the world-class naval power Japan is today, by patronizing the establishment of additional shipyards, pioneering naval artillery, and promoting international trade. However, he gained the title of Heavenly Fury, for during his reign, the Philippines were subjugated and brutally colonized so that Japanese/Kanshu immigrants would make up the majority of the population. Now it is his great-grandson, Emperor Meiji who will lead Japan into it's next age of glory.


Comparison Points – Political : 2
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious : 2.5
Comparison Points – Economy : 2.5
Comparison Points – Military : 3
Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX) : /10
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

[Velahor]

Kind of wanting to see a revised map. Got anything?

[Soviet Manchuria]

Kind of wanting to see a revised map. Got anything?

Most of Indonesia have been reserved, i don't know if anyone notice it so I might as well say it now.

[Cymrea]

Kind of wanting to see a revised map. Got anything?

Map and OP updated. In my zeal, I have already added the Native Federation, URA, New Venice, and Spain, as well as now-Accepted Scandinavia. This should also make new applications a bit easier.

[Cymrea]

Kind of wanting to see a revised map. Got anything?

Most of Indonesia have been reserved, i don't know if anyone notice it so I might as well say it now.

Velahor has a reservation in North America. No pun intended, Vel.

[Democratic East-Asia]

Did someone say coal? China has a lot of coal! Inner mongolia is literally made of coal. *drive to make more steel increases*

Also, if China goes communist, it'll do its best to put a "friendly face" on the ideology.