1870 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC]

[South Vict]

1870 : Alternative Divergence OOC THREAD OOC//MAP 2.27.2017 OP board -Still Pending Elerian Tracian Empire Cymrea [Heard of Reboot of Reboot?! Restart of Reboot of Reboot?!?] New players welcome! Do be aware much is under construction! (Image) “Men make History, but not at the time he wishes.” – Karl Marx__________________________________ But for the sake of argument, what if we could? Be it a point of divergence or a whole new nation, what if we could make history EXACTLY at the point that we wish? Hello and welcome to Another Alternative Divergence, an AH/AW RP where the world is your oyster to do whatever you wish. For the sake of continuity, the time now is 1870 C.E., and nations are expanding in a world not quite yet sobered by war for annihilation. What would be your vision of a world shaped by the nation that you call your own? Again, for the sake of continuity, we should set a few ground rules. All apps need a point of start and build-up – Whether you start from stone age and build it up to 1850 or simply change a few things here and there from 1800’s is up to you, but I would like for all nations to have an interesting history behind it… to prove you are capable AH/AW Rper. All nations MUST be somewhat original – Let’s try to be a bit more creative than having Great Britain at all its glory. You can keep the name and title, but you MUST have some degree of DIFFERENCE between your nation and the IRL ones. Everything can be excused with reason – I am willing to let anything be possible as long as it is stated clearly in the app with full explanation as to why it has come to be for your nation. … Similarly, I will accept NOTHING without a proper explanation. Nation Application Code: Select all [b]Full Nation Name :[/b]kingdom of spain [b]Majority/Official Culture :[/b] [[What your people identify themselves with… French, Chinese, Iroquois, Touareg, etc.]]spainish [b]Territorial Core :[/b] [[place where you have absolute control over]]spain,parts of morracco [b]Territorial Claim :[/b] [[OPTIONAL]] [[region NOT your core where your nation’s ambition lies]]libya,vietnam [b]Capital City :[/b] [[Its IRL location and name]]castile [b]Population :[/b]12,300,000 [b]Government Type :[/b] [[Monarchy, Republic, etc.]]monarchy [b]Government Ideology/Policies :[/b] [[OPTIONAL]] [[Militant, Imperialist, Expansionist, etc.]] [b]Government Focus :[/b] [[Tell me a little bit about what is your government’s focus… be it military, economy, culture, legitimacy, etc.]]to become militaristic as we can [b]Head of State :[/b] [[highest-ranking individual in the nation according to rule of law]] [b]Head of Government :[/b] [[highest-ranking defacto ruler]] [b]Government Description :[/b] [b]Majority/State Religion :[/b] [[OPTIONAL]] [[It does not have to be IRL religion]] [b]Religious Description :[/b] [[OPTIONAL]] [b]Economic Ideologies :[/b] [[Capitalism, Mercantilism, Socialism, Communism, etc.]] [b]Major Production :[/b] [b]Economic Description :[/b] [b]Army Strength :[/b] [b]Army Weakness :[/b] [b]Naval Strength :[/b] [b]Naval Weakness :[/b] [b]Further Military Description :[/b] [[OPTIONAL]] [b]National Goals :[/b] [b]National Issues :[/b] [[what needs to be fixed in order for your nation to achieve its true potential]] [b]National Figures of Interest :[/b] [[OPTIONAL]] [[Are there any Mother Teresas or Moses that we need to know about?]] [b]National Ambition/Aspirations :[/b] [[OPTIONAL]] [[Not really a set objective, but rather the big picture that your nation is drawing towards]] [b]History :[/b] [[Can be in paragraph or bulletpoint timeline.]] [b]Comparison Points – Political :[/b] [[How much national focus is gone into administrating the government, i.e. espionage, royal marriages, counter-intelligence, etc.]] [b]Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious :[/b] [[How much national focus is gone into religious and or cultural aspects, i.e. asking for excommunication, call for crusade, soviet revolution in other nations, etc.]] [b]Comparison Points – Economy :[/b] [[How much national focus is gone into economic matters, i.e. embargo/blockade efficiency, lasting through war of attrition, simply feeding your people better, etc.]] [b]Comparison Points – Military :[/b] [[How much national focus is gone into military, i.e. discipline, morale, better tacticians/generals, etc.]] [b]Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX) :[/b] /10 #AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps) -Reservations- Code: Select all [align=middle][size=150][u]Reservation[/u][/size][/align] [b]Nation Name:[/b] [b]Territory:[/b] #AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps) *Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations. Guidance System [[OPTIONAL]] This is something that I would like to try. We are creating an alternative world, right? Is there any historical divergence that you would like to be uniquely yours? Did the Chinese industrialize faster than Europeans? Did the Vikings settled down and colonized the Americas? Did the plague never wipe out Native Americans? Submit the app below, and you can add ONE alternative point as FACTUAL HISTORY for our RP! A few things to keep in mind: You can only have ONE Guidance. I’ll be the deciding judge on what is or what is not a single guidance. I would rather like this to be regional or global phenomenon, instead of “Nation A is the STRONGEST IN HISTORY!” Remember, you can always use your Guidance to cancel our others. EX- You can cancel out “Chinese industrialized faster than Europeans” with “Chinese industrialized faster than Europeans EXCEPT the English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, and the Dutch, which still managed to industrialize even faster.” If not stated by app or by Guidance, assume that the world was same as before. Of course, every app and every guidance will become something that need to be kept in mind in the RP. Guidance Application Code: Select all [b]Guidance Name :[/b] [[Every great event has a title. Doesn’t need to be fancy, like “Nanauatl hears our woes!” for curing the Smallpox by Spanish, and so on.]] [b]Guidance Description :[/b] [[What happened?]] [b]Affected Area :[/b] [[Just Europe? Just Middle East? Global?]]

need help on Spanish names

this one

[Democratic East-Asia]

It's fine, in terms of resources to population ratio, Japan is better situated than China. China's population is it's greatest strength and challenge.

I'm going to regulate population growth to the best of my ability though. Hopefully modern China here won't have over 900 million people (assuming no nuclear war and something similar kills off more).

Can someone report South Vict for trolling?

[Dires]

What would you suggest as a real weakness? What sort of real problems did Japan have from 1890-1930?

-Distinct lack of resources you have solved via opportune pre-arranged colonies
-Competition with stronger western powers (again butterflied away)
-Difficulty feeding their soldiers in wartime
-Little steel producing capacity
-Rigid social hierarchy and high clan economic control reducing innovation and competition
Just to name a few.

You, fortunately, butterflied away most of these before even getting into the IC. And apparently your Japan has almost 0 issues whatsoever.

Not my fault. China industrialized early - how was Japan not going to try to keep up? It's 1870, I have the rice basket of Korea and I'm not carrying out any large land campaigns - I don't see why this is my particular problem either. As for steel, that's why I colonized. We still have a strict social hierarchy. It just happens to be based more on merit like in post Meiji Japan. lol Innovation. I never claimed to be innovative - just good at the basic goods and services game. Last time I checked, this period wasn't known for it's market innovation - but rather industrial capacity and access to resources.

Don't try to retro-actively criticize me just because you ignored my app.

Some countries in history have been OP.

[Democratic East-Asia]

I'm more focussed on industrialization and mass modernization. If it's the one thing I somewhat admire about Stalin's USSR, it was its ability to industrialize in haste. Of course, doing so to China would probably lead to a disaster in which millions die, but then again China here isn't Mao's backwater. And there really isn't an immediate need to do so, so I'm holding that off. If all goes well, by the beginning of the 20th century of this RP, China will be incredibly strong.

No agricultural collectivization for now. Don't have the means to do so.

@Dires: Examples include the USA post WW2.

[Western Imperial Union]

Guidance Name : The Legacy of the Steppe
Guidance Description :
Following the age of the Huns and Scythians at in the early days of the 6th century, the Steppe had been a place predominantly enthralled in chaos in war. Tribes, clans, kingdoms, empires, arose and collapsed with the apparent speed of clouds crossing the sky on a windy day. Yet by the eight hundreds a slow change began to occur across the great open Steppe. Trade replaced war. Money replaced blood.

Perhaps it was the survival of the Roman Empire in all it's power in glory from Constantinople. Perhaps it was the example set by the Huns as they settled and moved away from their past of raids and invasions. Perhaps it was neither, it does not matter. What does matter is the Golden Roads established due to this. Seven in total the Gold roads rand from the Swiss Alps to Beijing, to Delhi, to Bangkok and Beyond. These Gold Roads like veins of a new era created a unique interchange between east and west. Goods, Ideas, Values, and people moved back and forth. This created an equalizing effect.

For nations ranging with contact to the Golden roads each became roughly equal to one another in technology, advancements traveled quickly along them and so ages of enlightenment showered these peoples in golden light of Progress.

While this sway over the flow of ideas waned greatly with the advancement of naval technology creating new avenues of communication and trade, the Golden Roads remained a valuable source of trade and communication for the continent.

Affected Area : Eurasia-Namely any with connection to the Steppe, or connection to nations with territory in the Steppe.

If I am allowed to have suggested effects then:

All Eurasian nations are kept within five years of one another in technology.
All nations with territory on the steppe are kept within three years technologically.
Nations that originate with the Steppe suffer in naval technology and trade but make up for it with land units and land based trade.
Steppe tribes are recognized more for their prolific trading and rigid justice along the Golden roads than about their military might.

[Sanabel]

-Distinct lack of resources you have solved via opportune pre-arranged colonies
-Competition with stronger western powers (again butterflied away)
-Difficulty feeding their soldiers in wartime
-Little steel producing capacity
-Rigid social hierarchy and high clan economic control reducing innovation and competition
Just to name a few.

You, fortunately, butterflied away most of these before even getting into the IC. And apparently your Japan has almost 0 issues whatsoever.

Not my fault. China industrialized early - how was Japan not going to try to keep up? It's 1870, I have the rice basket of Korea and I'm not carrying out any large land campaigns - I don't see why this is my particular problem either. As for steel, that's why I colonized. We still have a strict social hierarchy. It just happens to be based more on merit like in post Meiji Japan. lol Innovation. I never claimed to be innovative - just good at the basic goods and services game. Last time I checked, this period wasn't known for it's market innovation - but rather industrial capacity and access to resources.

Don't try to retro-actively criticize me just because you ignored my app.

Some countries in history have been OP.

But that's why it is your fault, you set up your app to make a perfect nation. It's BS, and I wish the OPs would take this into consideration.

I can retroactively criticize you, there is no rule against that. I wasn't even active on this thread until after your app was accepted.

Some countries in history have been OP, but none have been as perfect as you make out your Japan to be.

[Sanabel]

Guidance Name : The Legacy of the Steppe
Guidance Description :
Following the age of the Huns and Scythians at in the early days of the 6th century, the Steppe had been a place predominantly enthralled in chaos in war. Tribes, clans, kingdoms, empires, arose and collapsed with the apparent speed of clouds crossing the sky on a windy day. Yet by the eight hundreds a slow change began to occur across the great open Steppe. Trade replaced war. Money replaced blood.

Perhaps it was the survival of the Roman Empire in all it's power in glory from Constantinople. Perhaps it was the example set by the Huns as they settled and moved away from their past of raids and invasions. Perhaps it was neither, it does not matter. What does matter is the Golden Roads established due to this. Seven in total the Gold roads rand from the Swiss Alps to Beijing, to Delhi, to Bangkok and Beyond. These Gold Roads like veins of a new era created a unique interchange between east and west. Goods, Ideas, Values, and people moved back and forth. This created an equalizing effect.

For nations ranging with contact to the Golden roads each became roughly equal to one another in technology, advancements traveled quickly along them and so ages of enlightenment showered these peoples in golden light of Progress.

While this sway over the flow of ideas waned greatly with the advancement of naval technology creating new avenues of communication and trade, the Golden Roads remained a valuable source of trade and communication for the continent.

Affected Area : Eurasia-Namely any with connection to the Steppe, or connection to nations with territory in the Steppe.

If I am allowed to have suggested effects then:

All Eurasian nations are kept within five years of one another in technology.
All nations with territory on the steppe are kept within three years technologically.
Nations that originate with the Steppe suffer in naval technology and trade but make up for it with land units and land based trade.
Steppe tribes are recognized more for their prolific trading and rigid justice along the Golden roads than about their military might.

This pretty much only changes my nation...and I'd rather not have to change my whole history.

[The Orson Empire]

-Snip-

Overall, it looks really good, but about the military, I'm still not content with the strengths and weaknesses. You give all of those advantages, and the only disadvantage is that the Navy receives more focus, which can be interpreted in many ways, and doesn't give us a good weakness for it.

My personal suggestions are either to go for a good but small army, for a moderate sized army but with officer problems, due to well, purges, or to go classicaly communist and have a large army but poorly trained and equipped. In all of these however, since you are focusing on the Navy, the Army should be weaker than your navy.

The rest looks good, but I think that you missed an Imperial there, or is on purpose? Imperial Fleets?

Alright, I decided to make my army small in order to balance it out.

[Dires]

Not my fault. China industrialized early - how was Japan not going to try to keep up? It's 1870, I have the rice basket of Korea and I'm not carrying out any large land campaigns - I don't see why this is my particular problem either. As for steel, that's why I colonized. We still have a strict social hierarchy. It just happens to be based more on merit like in post Meiji Japan. lol Innovation. I never claimed to be innovative - just good at the basic goods and services game. Last time I checked, this period wasn't known for it's market innovation - but rather industrial capacity and access to resources.

Don't try to retro-actively criticize me just because you ignored my app.

Some countries in history have been OP.

But that's why it is your fault, you set up your app to make a perfect nation. It's BS, and I wish the OPs would take this into consideration.

I can retroactively criticize you, there is no rule against that. I wasn't even active on this thread until after your app was accepted.

Some countries in history have been OP, but none have been as perfect as you make out your Japan to be.

Hey, I'm open to constructive crit - what weakness should I provide that would make sense? It's not like I'm looking to be particularly expansionistic - more about resisting foreign ideology.

This was a good time for Japan and I buffed it accordingly to everyone else.

[Elerian]

Hey, I'm open to constructive crit - what weakness should I provide that would make sense? It's not like I'm looking to be particularly expansionistic - more about resisting foreign ideology.

San already gave you like 5 or 6.

[Sanabel]

Hey, I'm open to constructive crit - what weakness should I provide that would make sense? It's not like I'm looking to be particularly expansionistic - more about resisting foreign ideology.

San already gave you like 5 or 6.

The issue is that he already solved most of them through the colonialism done in his app prior to the IC.

[The Orson Empire]

Yeah, if we categorize me as a capitalist power. It's not the economic ideology of communism that runs against Japanese culture, it's the atheism and lack of respect for the Emperor.

Religion is a system of Bourgeoisie control over the workers and people, and monarchy is inherently putting the wealth and power of a few individuals above those of the common workers and people.

Both must be crushed under the Marxist-Pierrean thought system.

(In other words, if you want religious communism/communism that implements aspects of religion into it and allows religion and want to add allowing a monarch of sorts instead, Marxist-Pierrean Communism isn't the place to look; perhaps, a Japanese philosopher or socialist can invent his own form of communism/socialism that is more Japan's taste.)

Well, this will definitely be a source of contention between France and Italy in regards to the Marxist-Pierran ideology.

The Italian government publicly endorses atheism for the reasons you describe, but freedom of religion is still guaranteed by law. Italy has a significant number of Catholics, and even Chancellor Guerino knew that it would be impractical to imprison people for practicing religion (and he was even a Catholic himself).

It seems that France is hardcore when it comes to the ideology, while Italy is much more moderate.

[Dires]

Hey, I'm open to constructive crit - what weakness should I provide that would make sense? It's not like I'm looking to be particularly expansionistic - more about resisting foreign ideology.

San already gave you like 5 or 6.

and I addressed them

[South Vict]

did everyone see my app?

[Democratic East-Asia]

Well, this will definitely be a source of contention between France and Italy in regards to the Marxist-Pierran ideology.

The Italian government publicly endorses atheism for the reasons you describe, but freedom of religion is still guaranteed by law. Italy has a significant number of Catholics, and even Chancellor Guerino knew that it would be impractical to imprison people for practicing religion (and he was even a Catholic himself).

It seems that France is hardcore when it comes to the ideology, while Italy is much more moderate.

I don't know, but Italy seems to only be paying lipservice to Marist-Pierranism. Better than nothing I guess.

[Kyrusia]

Alt Div Admin is the OP of this thread. They maintain thread ownership. If the owner of that account, on that account, wishes to prohibit someone from participating in their thread, they may do so.

Edit: South Vict: The thread OP has requested you to no longer post in this thread. Do not post here again, or punitive actions (warnings, etc.) may follow.

[The Orson Empire]

Well, this will definitely be a source of contention between France and Italy in regards to the Marxist-Pierran ideology.

The Italian government publicly endorses atheism for the reasons you describe, but freedom of religion is still guaranteed by law. Italy has a significant number of Catholics, and even Chancellor Guerino knew that it would be impractical to imprison people for practicing religion (and he was even a Catholic himself).

It seems that France is hardcore when it comes to the ideology, while Italy is much more moderate.

I don't know, but Italy seems to only be paying lipservice to Marist-Pierranism. Better than nothing I guess.

Indeed. Italy has more of a mixed economy (similar to RL China's economy) than a fully Marxist-Pierran one.

Bortolo Guerino, the first leader of the Commune, was much more of a hardline communist. However, Rufo Barretta (his successor) realizes the impracticality of communism, seeing it as very flawed and inefficient; he has enough foresight to know that Italy would be left behind the capitalist nations of Europe if he remained fully devoted to the ideology. Also, being the power-hungry sociopath that he is, Barretta is far more focused on consolidating his rule, eliminating his competitors, and gaining economic profit from Italy's colonies.

Barretta has already purged the Communist Party of hardliners, replacing them with moderates and has instituted numerous economic reforms (described in more detail in my app). However, he can't completely get rid of communism, as a significant majority of the population still supports it. Thus, he has to pay lip service to it.

[The Dutch-Prussian Empire]

looks interesting. Taggity tag!

[Rygondria]

So what does papa Italy think of New Venice and their fields of cotton and hatred between Romans and Italians

[Mechanist Combine]

Full Nation Name : Norse Republic of Scandinavia
Flag: Le Flag
Majority/Official Culture : Norse
Territorial Core : Sweden, Finland, Norway
Territorial Claim : None
Capital City : Stockholm, Sweden
Population : ~9.7 Million

Government Type : Social Republic
Government Ideology/Policies : Unity, Equality, Order
Government Focus : Defence of borders, Keeping control of Scandinavia
Head of State : Minister Áleifr Arnbjorg (Klassiskt Liberala Partiet)
Head of Government : The Republican Council (Controlling Party: Sveriges Socialdemokratiska arbetarparti)
Government Description : The government has three councils (The Republican Council (3 year terms), the Council of territorial Unions (8 year terms, leaders of unions), and the Democratic Assembly (Public, no terms)). There are three parties currently they are; Sveriges Socialdemokratiska arbetarparti (Socialist), Sverigedemokraterna (Conservative), Klassiskt Liberala Partiet (Moderate Liberal)

Majority/State Religion : "The Old Faith" (Norse paganism)
Religious Description : N/A

Economic Ideologies : Social-Capitalism (Markets and economy managed by the government, citizens are free to start businesses as they wish, but all is owned by the government)
Major Production : Lumber, Ships, Machinery, Raw Metals (Iron/ Steel), Weapons, Fish
Economic Description : The economy is very managed, with expenditures distributed to certain sectors and used there to produce for the country. But citizens are allowed to start their own businesses in certain business sectors, all businesses are in the end owned by the government.

Army Strength & Weakness : With a very in depth training program and the military had fully adopted revolvers in both the sidearm and rifle capacities. The Army is organised into small elite divisions (Bands) throughout the country many are positioned near the country's borders. These bands are only about 3,000-5,000 soldiers and these bands tend to be scattered apart from one another all around the NRS.
Naval Strength & Weakness : The Navy specialises in small fast steamships on the other hand ships have a massive lack of hull armor and are very vulnerable to cannon shots because of this, often going down in only one hit. They are light and hard to hit, the vessels have very few anti-ship weapons or artillery on them, mostly sporting 3-4 puckle guns and 1(or rarely 2) 6 pounder field gun, refitted for ships.
Further Military Description: Uniforms (Officers on left, Other on right)

National Issues : Need for imported food due to long winters.
National Figures of Interest : None
National Ambition/Aspirations : The government wishes to fully industrialise the country and become less dependent on other countries for food.

History :

1066: Viking raids cease being profitable and thus stop.
1066-1200: Old Norse societies are still in place, the old faith meets christianity, priests convert many Jarls in hopes of their subjects converting with them. this failed as most of the Norsemen's beliefs were seemingly set in stone.
1200: Jarl Erikson conquers Norway, Sweden and Finland, and begins a reign of terror in Scandinavia, Erikson leads a christian rule
1238: Jarl Erikson dies, a large power struggle begins, many still believe in the old faith as Erikson's attempts to willingly convert his subjects regularly failed.
1400: Scandinavia reunited under the banner of Jarl Agmundr, Agmundr is too a christian, though his rule is weak, having poor control over its military forces he was unable to truly enforce his religion on the populace
1450: Finnish and Norwegian peasants rebel after the Jarl begins to extort them with heavy taxes, many rebels are believers of the old faith, bitter about having been oppressed in their society
1500: The Kingdom of Finland and Empire of Norway split the land in two and rule in peace for a time, both ruled by those who follow the old faith.
1567: The Empire of Norway is attacked and conquered by Finland
1670: The Kingdom of Finland collapses due to economic pressures and breaks into many faction who fight for control of the country.
1700: The Scandinavian Empire is formed after all the factions are conquered. Many still worship the old faith, seeing christianity as an oppressive and cruel religion for leaders to wield against the people.
1790: New SE leadership proves to be cowardly, weak, and cruel, oppressing its citizens. Its Emperor is rarely seen but its military is well organised and well equipped. Many believers of the old faith still through the land even though the government's religious laws persecutes all who are not christian.
1860: Inspired by the French revolution Scandinavian citizens revolt, quickly taking Stockholm and overthrowing the Emperor, Many of the old faith have taught it to their children, and their children's children, and so on. Ignore the religious law set in place for them in kingdoms past.
1861: The new government would begin to form and takes control of the the Empire's former land, the new government would take the name Norse Republic of Scandinavia. Jarls integrated into the citizenry and striped of all power.
1862: A Constitution is Enacted for the NRS, giving rights to the citizenry and increased rights to workers, introducing socialist policies, economic management, and a democratic system.
1865: The NRS begins to heavily industrialise. seeing the need to become industrial in the modern world.
1870: The NRS has become an partially industrialised nation, producing weapons and ships for other countries but mostly for its own military. It is still industrialising.

Comparison Points – Political : 2
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious : 2
Comparison Points – Economy : 3
Comparison Points – Military : 3
Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX) : 10/10
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

So, 'eres the next draft of the app, anything else that I should fix or change before final review?

[Soviet Manchuria]

Is Indonesia really empty there? I'm interested to create an HRE-like island empire

[Elerian]

Is Indonesia really empty there? I'm interested to create an HRE-like island empire

Yes, its surprisingly empty this time around.

[Soviet Manchuria]

Is Indonesia really empty there? I'm interested to create an HRE-like island empire

Yes, its surprisingly empty this time around.

Alright then, I wish to reserve it.

Reservation

Nation Name: Majapahit Empire
Territory: Indonesia (without west new guinea, with exception of the "head" like part), Malaysia, Brunei
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

[Velahor]

Cymrea, what do you think of this new revised history? I wanted your input because your name is in it. If it's good, I'll change my app to this.
Revised history:
History same as RL up until 1750's (other than exceptions made by other applicants), other than Native people in the Northwestern US having developed trade relations with the Aztec people to the south of them.
In the mid-1700's, the Cambrians began building more cities in the western areas of Cambrian Canada. Thus began the first trade relations between the Cambrians and the nomadic tribes of the Northern Plains and the fishing hunter-gatherers of the upper Pacific coast. Finding much in common between their tribal beliefs and the Druidic beliefs of the Cambrians, the Natives began a mutually beneficial relationship with the Cambrians. In addition to traditional trading, the Cambrians provided the Natives with new technologies like mining, mechanical weapons, and agriculture; while the Natives proved to be great guides, providing a wealth of knowledge about local terrain, animals, and weather. Native tribes began to settle into villages to tend to crops and trading, but some remained nomadic.
With the newly found technological resources, it gave Native tribes something new to fight over. Eventually, around 1810, a large war broke out between the Salish and Blackfoot people over traditional hunting grounds in the Bitterroot Valley of RL western Montana. The first major Native American war fought with guns, the casualties were extensive. Charles Dark Eagle, a Blackfoot warrior, became known all across Native territory for his bravery in this battle, rallying his troops to victory.
Charles Dark Eagle, Thomas Whitehorse, William Standsalone and other Native American leaders saw the need to prevent tragedies like this by creating a tribal court to resolve territorial disputes in. This court slowly evolved into a cohesive government for the Blackfoot and the Salish, based out of the largest Salish settlement, Kalispel, on the northern banks of Flathead Lake. Dark Eagle, a charismatic leader, was handed the position of Grand Chief at only 25 years old. As the judge of the intertribal court, the position of Grand Chief became a position of benevolent dictatorship and this tribal government began to be known as the Blackfoot-Salish Federation. This government began to handle more than just intertribal affairs, as it became involved in diplomacy with trading partners and other nations.
Thomas Whitehorse, revered by the Salish as a medicine man and preacher, began speaking of the tenants of a new religion called the Tradition of the Land Spirits at about this time. Between native people's attraction to this and the stability of the Blackfoot-Salish Federation, many people from surrounding tribes started to flock to Kalispel around 1825.
As these people continued trade with the Salish, they became increasingly convinced that the Federation was something they wanted to be a part of. Over the next 10 years, the Utes, Crow, Paiute, Shoshone, Tilamook, Cree, Sioux, Spokane, Chinook, Klamath, Pawnee, Shasta, Arapaho, and a multitude of smaller tribes joined the Federation, which gained the official name of The Federation of Northern Native Tribes. However, the people of all the tribes are beginning to identify as Salish, and their culture is collectively known, and the Blackfoot-Salish Federation is the name preferred by most.
By 1850, Charles Dark Eagle had been the leader of the Salish for nearly 40 years. He and his collaborators crushed dissidents who believed in individual tribes seceding from the Federation. In the time from its foundation, the Federation formed major cities in Kalispel (RL Kallispell, MT), Great Spirit Lake (RL Salt Lake City) and Ninqually (RL Seattle/Puget Sound). In addition, Salish technology has improved to the level of an average European nation.

Treaties have been signed that distinguish the 49th parallel as the border between the Federation and Cambrian Canada, and also defined borders with the Aztecs to the south and with other nations in North America.

[The Orson Empire]

So what does papa Italy think of New Venice and their fields of cotton and hatred between Romans and Italians

New Venice will probably be invaded.