Demens Chosen [PL: Into the Abyss - CLOSED]

[Swith Witherward]

We wish you joy, luck, and love.

Happy Birthday, Koth!

[Giovenith]

*sprinkles glitter on Koth*

[Chedastan]

Happy B-Day Koth!

*Blows out confetti and a kazoo*

[Swith Witherward]

#PLAPP

(Image)
PERSONIFICATION LIFE
CHARACTER APPLICATION 2.0

---

PLAYER INFORMATION
NS nation nickname:

Skill Level (beginner, intermediate, advanced):
beginner
How often can you post?
twice or thrice a week


CHARACTER PERSONAL CHARACTERISTICS
Character First Name:
Jiu
Character Surname:
Ti'er
Character Title:
Duke
Character Gender:
Male
Species : (nation personification, human, alien, etc)
halfling
Age: (must be 18 or older)
somewhere between 21-25
Appearance:
2 ft. tall, muscled, white make up covers face, tight-fitting yellow suit with orange tie, multi-colored eyes, no shoes, teal hair
URL to Character Picture, if any:

Character Occupation or Specialty:
Beserker, mercernary

Character's biggest strength:
his insanity gives him partial understanding of anything insane

Character's worst flaw:
Insanity

OBJECTIVES AND GOALS


Primary Objective:
Getting past the death of everyone he knew
Minor Goals:
protecting everyone he knows from death, finding his purpose, finding the one survivor from his village

MUNDANE SKILLS
(These do NOT require points. These are the average, daily things your character can do. Examples are "drive a car", "speak one Foreign Language", "play a guitar", "write poetry". Some mundane skills come from your bio and are freebie. A soldier has gone through Basic training. However, Medic, martial arts or sniper would be a Specialized Skill or Talent.)

List Mundane skills here

• write haunting poetry
  
• ride a horse
  
• cook some basic meals
  

SPECIALIZED SKILLS AND TALENTS
(These are specialized skills that set you apart from the average person. You have 7 points to spend here, no more than 4 points in each skill or talent. Examples are swordsmanship, sniper, coercion, medic, spellcraft, piloting helicopter, manipulate water, etc. You must take a skill pertaining to a supernatural power if you plan to use that power.)

• Ability 1 and Points Spent: Swordsmanship (4)
  
• Ability 2 and Points Spent: Endurance to pain (3)

OPTIONAL SUPERNATURAL CHARACTERISTICS
(You have 7 points to spend here on supernatural skills or abilities, no more than 4 in each. Sonic Scream, Levitation, Shape Shifting etc. Superman MUST have his kryptonite thus weaknesses are things which inhibit the ability. Restrictions are what can't they do with their power or what balances it. They can only use it when they genuinely need it? They can't use it for more then five minutes without serious side-effects? Some things are allowed without points. A pegasus has wings thus it can fly: list wings. A raptor is fast thus no points are spent in speed: list speed and give us its stop speed. These "natural" abilities should be listed here. What isn't allowed: teleportation beyond a few feet; the ability to alter or go back/forward in time. IMPORTANT: You need a knowledge in Specialized Skills and Talents in order to work these abilities. Example: you'll need "manipulate water" to do just that, and this section is where you record what water manipulation abilities the character has.)

• Ability 1: Endurance to Pain
  Power Level: 4
  Strengths: Due to his insanity, he can endure almost any pain
  Weaknesses: A bow with arrows from his home planet give him pain, as he thinks about his dead family
  Restrictions: He still can be killed, he just won't notice he needs a medic

MAGICAL OR SPECIAL ITEMS
(If it's not on this list, your character doesn't have it. Magical items are rare and hard to come by. Please list what they can/can't do - treat them like a supernatural thing. Items not allowed: anything that can alter time; anything that allows a character to teleport beyond a few feet. Magical items have 7 points to spread among all of them. No items may be over 4 in power.)

List:
[*]Signet ring of the duke of Ui
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

EQUIPMENT
(This is what your character has on their person at the very moment when they are pulled from their home dimension. Laptop? Firearm? Cigarettes and matches? Don't abuse this. They won't be clutching an entire bunker. You have 7 points total to spend on magical items. No single item can be more powerful that 4.)

List:
Signet ring of the duke of Ui, Sword, hat, potrait of his family

BACKGROUND
(Be detailed please. You must explain how your character acquired their skills, talents, abilities, and special items. Wrap your primary objectives and goals into it.)

Education or Training:
Studied at Ui college, but never finished
Character Background/Biography: (Please write this in first person. Have your character tell us their history, their sorrows, their triumphs, etc. Be as detailed as possible.)
I was in line to become the duke of ui. The first son, pride of the duchy. I charged at many battles, learned swordsmanship. But then the things came. There were things that fired metal arrows from the sky, armored things that crawled on treads. I was hit. I awoke to see my city burnt of the map. My friend nursed me back to health. One day, after I had regained my strength, she went away and never came back. I wandered after that. The Mad Halfling, I was called. I came here, then, while I was hot on the trail of finding my friend.

OTHER GAME MECHANICS
URL to Apartment Picture and description:
Whirling, shifting, this apartment will drive you mad from looking at it.
Link to RP examples:


IMPORTANT FINAL STEP:
A mad, tiny guy with knowledge of swordsmanship. Near-invulnerable to pain. Finds it difficult to work with others.
The nickname you go by on NS: Muffy
Character Name: The Mad Halfling
Character Image Link: [url]LINK TO IMAGE[/url]

Cer is probably not going to accept "insanity". Mental illness is difficult to roleplay, and having a disorder does not allow one to understand mental illness apart from one's own type of mental illness. Depending upon the degree of mental illness, the world is out to get them, and not something someone would want to save. "Let it all burn". Psychosis, for example, is a loss of connection to reality, replete with hallucinations and delusions.

Mental illness does not allow one to endure pain. A cutter feels the cuts, but sees pain as atonement. Someone with anger management issues will still be taken down with a well-timed kick to the crotch. Yes, it's possible to "disengage" in a frenzied state, but someone with this much fucked-up mental health issues really wouldn't be a good match for a game that requires teamwork and forethought.

Could you pinpoint what his "insanity" is? What caused his mental stability? What triggers it? What abates it? Etc.

[Cerillium]

#PLAPP

(Image)
PERSONIFICATION LIFE
CHARACTER APPLICATION 2.0

---

PLAYER INFORMATION
NS nation nickname:

Skill Level (beginner, intermediate, advanced):
beginner
How often can you post?
twice or thrice a week


CHARACTER PERSONAL CHARACTERISTICS
Character First Name:
Jiu
Character Surname:
Ti'er
Character Title:
Duke
Character Gender:
Male
Species : (nation personification, human, alien, etc)
halfling
Age: (must be 18 or older)
somewhere between 21-25
Appearance:
2 ft. tall, muscled, white make up covers face, tight-fitting yellow suit with orange tie, multi-colored eyes, no shoes, teal hair
URL to Character Picture, if any:

Character Occupation or Specialty:
Beserker, mercernary

Character's biggest strength:
his insanity gives him partial understanding of anything insane

Character's worst flaw:
Insanity

OBJECTIVES AND GOALS


Primary Objective:
Getting past the death of everyone he knew
Minor Goals:
protecting everyone he knows from death, finding his purpose, finding the one survivor from his village

MUNDANE SKILLS
(These do NOT require points. These are the average, daily things your character can do. Examples are "drive a car", "speak one Foreign Language", "play a guitar", "write poetry". Some mundane skills come from your bio and are freebie. A soldier has gone through Basic training. However, Medic, martial arts or sniper would be a Specialized Skill or Talent.)

List Mundane skills here

• write haunting poetry
  
• ride a horse
  
• cook some basic meals
  

SPECIALIZED SKILLS AND TALENTS
(These are specialized skills that set you apart from the average person. You have 7 points to spend here, no more than 4 points in each skill or talent. Examples are swordsmanship, sniper, coercion, medic, spellcraft, piloting helicopter, manipulate water, etc. You must take a skill pertaining to a supernatural power if you plan to use that power.)

• Ability 1 and Points Spent: Swordsmanship (4)
  
• Ability 2 and Points Spent: Endurance to pain (3)

OPTIONAL SUPERNATURAL CHARACTERISTICS
(You have 7 points to spend here on supernatural skills or abilities, no more than 4 in each. Sonic Scream, Levitation, Shape Shifting etc. Superman MUST have his kryptonite thus weaknesses are things which inhibit the ability. Restrictions are what can't they do with their power or what balances it. They can only use it when they genuinely need it? They can't use it for more then five minutes without serious side-effects? Some things are allowed without points. A pegasus has wings thus it can fly: list wings. A raptor is fast thus no points are spent in speed: list speed and give us its stop speed. These "natural" abilities should be listed here. What isn't allowed: teleportation beyond a few feet; the ability to alter or go back/forward in time. IMPORTANT: You need a knowledge in Specialized Skills and Talents in order to work these abilities. Example: you'll need "manipulate water" to do just that, and this section is where you record what water manipulation abilities the character has.)

• Ability 1: Endurance to Pain
  Power Level: 4
  Strengths: Due to his insanity, he can endure almost any pain
  Weaknesses: A bow with arrows from his home planet give him pain, as he thinks about his dead family
  Restrictions: He still can be killed, he just won't notice he needs a medic

MAGICAL OR SPECIAL ITEMS
(If it's not on this list, your character doesn't have it. Magical items are rare and hard to come by. Please list what they can/can't do - treat them like a supernatural thing. Items not allowed: anything that can alter time; anything that allows a character to teleport beyond a few feet. Magical items have 7 points to spread among all of them. No items may be over 4 in power.)

List:
[*]Signet ring of the duke of Ui
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

EQUIPMENT
(This is what your character has on their person at the very moment when they are pulled from their home dimension. Laptop? Firearm? Cigarettes and matches? Don't abuse this. They won't be clutching an entire bunker. You have 7 points total to spend on magical items. No single item can be more powerful that 4.)

List:
Signet ring of the duke of Ui, Sword, hat, potrait of his family

BACKGROUND
(Be detailed please. You must explain how your character acquired their skills, talents, abilities, and special items. Wrap your primary objectives and goals into it.)

Education or Training:
Studied at Ui college, but never finished
Character Background/Biography: (Please write this in first person. Have your character tell us their history, their sorrows, their triumphs, etc. Be as detailed as possible.)
I was in line to become the duke of ui. The first son, pride of the duchy. I charged at many battles, learned swordsmanship. But then the things came. There were things that fired metal arrows from the sky, armored things that crawled on treads. I was hit. I awoke to see my city burnt of the map. My friend nursed me back to health. One day, after I had regained my strength, she went away and never came back. I wandered after that. The Mad Halfling, I was called. I came here, then, while I was hot on the trail of finding my friend.

OTHER GAME MECHANICS
URL to Apartment Picture and description:
Whirling, shifting, this apartment will drive you mad from looking at it.
Link to RP examples:


IMPORTANT FINAL STEP:
A mad, tiny guy with knowledge of swordsmanship. Near-invulnerable to pain. Finds it difficult to work with others.
The nickname you go by on NS: Muffy
Character Name: The Mad Halfling
Character Image Link: [url]LINK TO IMAGE[/url]

Cer is probably not going to accept "insanity". Mental illness is difficult to roleplay, and having a disorder does not allow one to understand mental illness apart from one's own type of mental illness. Depending upon the degree of mental illness, the world is out to get them, and not something someone would want to save. "Let it all burn". Psychosis, for example, is a loss of connection to reality, replete with hallucinations and delusions.

Mental illness does not allow one to endure pain. A cutter feels the cuts, but sees pain as atonement. Someone with anger management issues will still be taken down with a well-timed kick to the crotch. Yes, it's possible to "disengage" in a frenzied state, but someone with this much fucked-up mental health issues really wouldn't be a good match for a game that requires teamwork and forethought.

Could you pinpoint what his "insanity" is? What caused his mental stability? What triggers it? What abates it? Etc.

I agree.

[Cerillium]

The mother of all assessments. This will be a lengthy post. The contents are not meant to mock players/GMs. Rather, it's vital that people receive honest feedback in order to grow. These assessments were taken from the feedback forms players filled out, as well as several months' worth of TG/DM.


Personification Life:

• Overall, people enjoy the game. It gives them freedom. It isn't a typical sandbox - which is why it hasn't died. It has a good player combo and interesting characters.
• OP/CoOPs: people like them because they're helpful. They want to see more of Min and Tilt in the IC but they understand that these CoOPs have to work and don't have as much free time. People miss the "animals". These stories were comical and sweet, and seen as a way to lighten the mood.
• Nobody misses the teen club. It was stupid. The characters sat around and "were emo" when they weren't flirting. The only good thing to come of Teen Club was Marcus and Giovenith. People want to see them together on missions now that they're older. They don't care if there isn't any sex. It was love and it was between two characters that people cared for. People would like to sweep Torii's death under the rug so Marcus and Gio can be on the same page again, relationship-wise. People want them in action scenes.
• The setting:
  
  • People like Galli. It gives freedom. However, it's difficult to explore without a CoOP or the OP along.
  • People want to see more of the Wold and figure out Varg. The Wold echos parts of Middle Earth.
  • People want to explore the Outermark but they understand that Swith hasn't been up to it. The Outermark is scifi.
  • People do not like Ascalon. This city was meant to be a replacement for Bielefeld. It's too dark, the politics and crime annoy, and it feels like it's just a playground for one or two characters.
  • Some people are all for Boilerplate. Others don't like it.
  • Some people miss Galli. They liked "everyday life". They'd like to go back there, but keep the "mission" concept, whereby we have a gate in the Building that allows us to dispatch teams quickly. It's been three years. The anti-supers thing is over. The players prone to trying to invade with their nations are no longer with us. I personally like this concept.
• The God War: We aren't getting any closer to working on it. This is because we have a lot of long-running stories that don't contribute to it.

Characters:

• A lot of characters aren't played to their full potential. This is due to two reasons: an improperly planned story, or an improperly played character. A GM won't know your character's potential unless your character voices up. "I can start this fire with two sticks!" or "I have chameleon ability. Why not let me sneak into the warehouse?"
• Tying into this: on a mission, let the character most suited for a role fulfill that roll. Don't protest if the chameleon character volunteers, thus depriving your military character a chance to shine. Play to win for the group, not to win for your character.
• "Mary Sue" characters. Several powerful characters have been called this. For the record, calling a player's character a "Mary Sue" is an insult to the player and their talent, especially when the character is NOT a self insert; they serve mainly as a background character to move stories along (not the hero). We do not have Mary Sue characters in PL. These characters are left-overs from PL Classic and they have been drastically toned down. We hardly see their powers manifest. Unfortunately, the people running these characters no longer want to be part of PL. They hate posting. They feel defeated and unwelcome, thus they don't want to contribute.

Posting and posting habits:

• We require a three-line minimum. We do not have a word count limit. All we ask is that you give enough info in your post for others to work off of. Write a bit of description to make it interesting, even if it's a character brushing fringe from their eyes or kicking a stone to denote emotion. This simplistic style allows players to drop in a post even when very busy IRL. It keeps a story moving.
• No more collabs unless it it for a dialog exchange that would otherwise be one-liners in the IC. Players loathe these. They don't feel as if they are roleplaying; they feel like their working on a novel. It isn't fun. Discuss what you're planning here in the OOC, then work on posts in the IC.
• For GM: Too many NPCs in a post, and too many people on a mission. People want to keep the groups small. The writer is able to track them in their mind. The players can't be expected to remember who is what, especially if there are more than three. They want their characters to forge a relationship to the other character. That's hard to do in a large group.
• For GM: please put only what is needed when describing a setting. No walk-throughs.
• For GM: please make an effort to describe the mood. And please, no more jarring transitions without speaking to your players first.
• For players: give your GM something to work with. Offer feedback. "I really don't want to know the history of bottlecaps. I'm here to play Fallout. Bottlecaps are money. I get it." Characters should also react to their environment, and to each other.

Running stories:

• There are two mistakes every GM can make: the first is to not plan anything at all. Very experienced PbP GM can run by the seat of their pants. Those new to GM-ing really need to sit down and plan out their worldbuild. The second mistake is overplanning, creating a story so rigid that one missed element ruins the story.
• Believably is important unless the story is meant to be surreal (Alice in Wonderland nonsense).
• Keep it short and sweet. Min's Booze-Run was a perfect example. We arrived, we schmoozed, we got in a fight, we got the booze, we left. BRII was to be equally as short, but my schedule fucked it up. If you plan a long-running story, lets your players know in advance. Their characters will be tied up a while.
• Think smarter, not more powerful. Take a cue from Swith's evil characters. Scel can devastate a planet, but it's Neste that glides into the bedchamber to plunge the knife through the protagonist's heart.

Genre:

• Romance: We've gotten 100% better at this. Nice job, all. Two people working side-by-side, dealing with shit together. It's a basis for a solid relationship, as opposed to two people sequestered in a room doing nothing but "tee hee" flirting on a middle-school level.
• Horror/thriller: Senseless violence, gorn, and killing/mutilating NPCs doesn't belong in PL. Characters are held accountable and have to operate in a manner that doesn't draw too much attention.
• Fantasy and Magic. Funny thing, but I'm not seeing magic affect the caster. A knight runs a marathon to escape the angry dragon and, having finally found shelter in a small cave, he doubles over and gasps for breath. Every muscle in his legs aches, and his armor has chafed his torso and shoulders. The pegasus with supernatural flight (natural ability: wings) races over the mountains to deliver a message. He lands and shudders because he's exhausted from flapping. Meanwhile, Tim the Wizard forms his hand into a gun and goes "pew pew pew" to lob fireballs at his foe, then capers off to find a new location. His energy isn't at all drained. This needs to stop. No IC time is taken to set up a spell, no ingredients are used, no mental effort is put into it, nothing is chanted - in other words, no effort it made to influence nature in order to pull off magic. Instead, the "magic" comes from within, an unlimited supply. The only characters capable of pulling off prolonged attacks are Giovenith and Klaus. Giovenith is a level 9. Klaus draws his power from the emotions around him (and is useless outside of a group). Giovenith and Klaus will both tire, but they'll be able to sustain their attacks further than someone who is a level 4.
• Anime. We are not an anime game. Anime physics do not apply.
• Science Fiction: we've done really well here.
• Magitech: this is getting out of hand and players have complained. If you want to know if your magitech character or device has managed to cross over from believably to obnoxiousness, please TG.

The Players:

• Real life comes up. Sometimes we can't post. Work, school, health, and even depression hold us back. Usually, we let people know in advance. However, we have too many players not posting at all, or posting in other places but not here. GMs are stuck and stories stall. Please do not sign up for a mission if you think you won't be able to meet the GM's post requirements. Don't sign up because it "looks cool". Sign up to take part in a story, to support a GM as they learn the craft, and to allow your character to grow.
• Communication is vital. Talk to one another here, in the OOC, where your discussion can be easily referenced for future use. Discord is great, but it takes a lot of scrolling to find one agreed-upon point. Players, give your GM feedback.
• Work on your character's goals regardless of the story. Keep those goals in mind as you craft posts. Also keep in mind their weaknesses and strengths.

[Highfort]

Given the unpopularity of UA, I think it's safe to say the setting is mostly a failure. I'll need to discuss how to deal with established elements that affect existing characters but I'm open to ideas to revamp or outright redo the setting, assuming we're staying in Galli and not going back to Bielefeld.

[Giovenith]

I think that there are two main reasons people tend to not venture out and explore settings other than pure disinterest or laziness.

1) Touched upon in the assessment, it can be difficult if the area is run by another player, especially if the primary attractions are things that only the owner can control (like the members of a club or lodge). Even if the owner-player can come online, they could have a busy RL that prevents them from posting as quickly as the other players wanted, or said players may feel uncomfortable even asking the owner-player to take time out of their life to run the setting just for them in the first place. Even if the area doesn't need its owner to be used, players may be paranoid about playing the setting incorrectly and having it do things it's not supposed to (such as having what's meant to be a regular toy shop sell their characters impossible things like jetpacks). In general, part of the fun that comes from exploring an unfamiliar environment is that you don't know what will result from your actions, and that aspect is taken away when the players have to rely on themselves to convey the setting. Not everyone will be held back by this, but it's not hard to see why it would cause hesitation in some.

Let's look at this way-

Alice and Bob want to have their characters do something sporty together. They're faced with two options: setting up a game of tennis on the Building's front yard, or going to the high-tech training facility downtown that David runs.

If they set up a tennis game:
- They receive immediate gratification, having to rely only on themselves for posts and furthering their story, as opposed to stopping and waiting to see whether or not they succeeded in their interactions with David's training machines.
- They avoid the risk of wasting David's time, whom they know is busy with college and work and might not be up for running the facility just because they want to do something while he really doesn't.
- They avoid the risk of godmoding David's facility by running it themselves, inserting in killer robots and freeze rays and then having to redact it all when David says there are no robots or freeze rays.
- They might wind up attracting other players to their game, since characters are more likely to be wandering around the Building and spot the tennis match out their window than they are to "coincidentally" walk into the training facility too.

If they go to David's facility:
- They have a cooler time, BUT...
- They may have to wait until David actually has free time to play (by which time, they may have been forced to do something else and postpone the trip indefinitely.)
- Once David is here, they have additional waiting time added to their responses, needing to add David into the mix instead of just keeping it a constant back and forth swing between the two of them.
- They have to take the extra mental energy to understand David's rules and play to them without screwing up the setting.
- It's unlikely to extend beyond Alice, Bob, and David unless bored players make the active effort to insert their own characters.

Given these two options, which seems easier and thus more tempting?

2) Even getting the whole "we need David" aspect out of the way and making the area totally easy for players to use, going out into town is a mostly sensational experience - you get a kick out of what your eyes see and the atmosphere of the place, and this fuels your interactions with both it and whoever you're with. This could be difficult to translate into writing for some players, who might not understand how to derive meaningful character experience and development through the environment instead of through action or conversation. It's easy to be delighted upon seeing a choo-choo set at a toy shop in real life, it's a bit trickier to figure out how to turn this into something that's worth writing about in PL - something beyond, "And then Sally laughed at the silly train." It takes a certain understanding of storytelling and descriptive writing that some players might not have a full grasp on. They might be afraid that their time out would devolve into chatplay, as their characters wander aimlessly and eventually settle for talking about their feelings on a bench. Again, it becomes easier for players who want to be productive to set up circumstances within their control to propel themselves instead of going out. And if they're the kind of players who actively want to chatplay, why would they put in the effort to move to a new location for such a simple goal?


I don't think these are unfixable problems. It would require demonstrating the unique limitations of certain locations and to derive important story aspects from relatively little moments. As best as I can tell, this would be best taught through example: people who are adept at such things should lead by showing off what can be accomplished when locations are used to their full potential.

[Cerillium]

Aye, Gio.

The problem I'm running into is - okay, many problems that I simply can't fix.

1. Lead by example
   We've given players examples of how to turn mundane moments into something more. Neste and Sep made/had dinner. During the course of that scene, players were able to sort out their characters' stories, work on dev, and still intertwine the main story (mundanes vs supers) into it. Likewise, Giovenith and Marcus have taken mundane moments and used them as commentary on their surrounds and main story, worked on char dev, or accomplished something that supports the main story. Willow and Hans/Rache had a casual chat revolving around that book and poem, which was to be used later (much, much later).
   
   Few picked up on it (the posts were too long). Most settled for rapid flirting and scamper-play to ease their boredom. When invited into stories, they didn't post or else sulked because their character wasn't getting attention.
   
   
2. Initiative
   Is a tennis match on the lawn just a tennis match? Not when someone hits the ball askew and it lands in a bush. ("Hey, Cer, can I do an adventure with Niva? We'll save a witch. My character doesn't want anything." - "Sure, Prim.") It's just a short adventure but, during the course of it, Insidious learns to interact with others better, and Nivea becomes a little more brave. Char dev. No "goodies".
   
   
3. I'm the baddest!
   The fact is, I'm tired of "What's in it for me?" from players. This isn't D&D. We aren't here so paladins can gain +10 swords and mages can find +10 spells. The characters wanting more are the characters that already have too much, and they don't share. Players are willing to run stories, but some of them are only doing it so they can get stuff for their character. I really can't understand this push to be the strongest in the group, nor the need to whinge because NPCs are stronger.
   
   We used to be a very fun group. Didn't matter if someone was a god or a mortal. In fact, the best stories happened when people did things for people. Acts of kindness. Minerva holding char!Bran as he sobbed, and sobbing with him. The outpouring of love and grief between those two friends was incredible. I cried when I read it. What about that time Naomi darted into the street to save Rachel from Yellow King - sparing the child because Rachel's silly antics brought joy to the Building. Prim could have killed Naomi. Swith knew that. It was Bran's character, and she didn't want to see her dead. Marcus - stupid, naive, mortal Marcus - falsely believing that he could bring back his mother from the fungal field. He died out of love for her, and he came back from the dead out of love for Giovenith. Willow, feeling weak and useless, fighting his own inner demons in the dark cave. Facing the fears brought on by low self-esteem and painful moments in his life. Had Rache been there, he would have died if that death meant freeing his friend.
   
   We lack this now. Some characters are more interested in their own dev than they are helping others. It shows, glaringly, in the IC thread.
   
   
4. Missions
   Missions were meant to give bored people something to do. Now that those people are no longer with us, I question whether or not missions are even necessary. Then I look towards those that have been here from the beginning and put up with every change. I realize the "I'm the baddest" and "pay attention to me" attitudes have stripped away "we're family". Further, people fuck over the GMs by not posting. It's hardly fair to those GM, especially to the ones that are just learning how to run their own game.
   
   
5. CoOPs
   You people are gold. You've been doing your best to support stories, despite a hectic life. I appreciate the hell out of you. However-
   
   Swith?
   *echo*
   
   Hey, Swith!
   *echo*
   
   Guess who isn't covering for me anymore? She was fine with Nila dying. She's already said I can kill Meps. She wants to get through this meeting so she can park Minerva. She'll do one-shots and help new characters into the game unless we make changes to how we're approaching shit. I do not know what was said to her in PM or by what parties. You should be ashamed of yourselves, whoever you are. I'd much rather have Swith's positive and loving attitude than other people's petty bullshit, and I'm in no mood to lose more CoOPs over this nonsense.
   
   
6. The poll
   Not everyone voted.
   
   Galli or Bielefeld?
   44% (4)I love Galli. Let's stay here forever, even though we can't go too many places around the Building and have to use Gates for everything. We're still cut off from our home dimensions, though.
   56% (5) I miss "everyday life". Let's go back to Bielefeld but keep the "mission" concept, whereby we have a gate in the Building that allows us to dispatch teams quickly. It's been three years. The anti-supers thing is over. We can always go back to Galli if we decide we don't like Bielefeld. We're still cut off from our home dimensions, though.
   This is fairly close. It's not enough to help me make a decision.
   
   There's a new poll up. It is perhaps the scariest thing I have ever done for an RP. We can end this game, or we can find a way to make it work. It means giving up some things, and adding some things. Characters that depend on the Building's magic (such as Beckett) will still be able to function. It means we might remain in Galli or go to Bielefeld, or go somewhere else entirely.
   
   It means an end to the God War. As the GM for it, I've lost all desire for it, and my Co-GM for it refuses to participate in it.

[Mincaldenteans]

Changing venues won't help, in my opinion. It'll take the efforts of players to make something of what we have/had than just changing locales, and what's to say the same issues won't be resolved?

I think we've made progress, however. We've had players step up to GM their own stories. Results vary, but they are learning and having to change locales (again) would be detrimental. Keeping what we have would be better, making adjustments as necessary/needed and truck along. Sure, we may not have the God War story (grumble), but to end it? Perhaps not, we'd need to look at it differently.

Now for my own personal opinion: I'm too tired, busy, and my motivation for posting is at an all time low. My recent highlights have been Maureen and Mezran, and given the years we've been at this, it's come to be few and far between. Dev? Theres been little to none. This co-OP is tired hunnies, I help more on the back than the front end, and these days I can barely do that until my schedule levels out.

End? No. Players should be stepping up (because of the above as Cer already said) and working together will give this RP a chance to work.

[Giovenith]

ComradeSamIAm [Gren] - Today at 12:25 PM
Yall are thinking of ending it?

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 12:27 PM
It depends on the players.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 12:28 PM
Of course I don't want it to end. But I also don't want to force you guys to run something that obviously gives you a lot of stress.
I'm also mad at whoever made Swith feel that way. I love her characters. Minerva is so well painted that I can draw her.

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 12:38 PM
I'm with Gio, this game has done so much good in spite of any stress it has brought alongside it. I want this to be a wonderful adventure for all players and GMs, much so that we're not going to stress ourselves about it.

And goddamn shame on whoever made Swith feel horrible and lose her confidence, I am appalled and furious, I want our good ole Swith back, I want her happy more than anything
I will post eventually in the ooc, I'm currently away from my laptop

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 12:40 PM
My stress is mainly the players that don't post, and people that complain behind the scenes instead of saying "Hey, I don't like this element. Can we change it?"
Also, we're a bit frozen regarding the resident's meeting. This is due to the current discussion. @Economa Incorporated [Souls] you have my sincerest apology for keeping you hanging. We're normally not like this.

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 12:44 PM
Be there in a few

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 12:45 PM
Something similar happened back in January. I just don't understand who these nameless and faceless "critics" are, like who could still possibly be on Swith's ass about her characters?
Are they even a player?

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 12:47 PM
It's not so much her characters, Ched.
Dab made the concept but sucked as OP. Swith became OP and made the game incredible. She stepped down but retained intellectual property, and handed the admin to me. Basically, her nose is out of joint because of bullshit going on behind the scenes.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 12:48 PM
I'm sorry for my part in the "not posting" problem, Cer.

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 12:48 PM
Ditto.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 12:49 PM
Gio, your story was supposed to be a slow mover. Made my life easy.

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 12:50 PM
I'm not fond of the idea that the whole story has to be shelved because of bullshit from any direction. It was a good story and I was hoping to see it played out and play in it.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 12:51 PM
We can't do the God War if we don't have the teeming ground forces bearing the battle damage so our characters can do the hero stuff.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 12:52 PM
I understand that anonymity has to be kept, but it's a bit hard to wrap my around the severity of the issues at play without knowing exactly what was said.

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 12:53 PM
I understand that (nod) on both counts.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 12:53 PM
I don't even know what was said. I've seen one screen capture. I suspect what was said would probably piss me off enough to give me reason to walk from NS.
Thought I'd walk from RP. Enjoying raiding too much to leave the site. :smile:

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 12:53 PM
lol

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 12:54 PM
@Lich Cat Perch [Cer] Fully understood. Still faster than signing actual lease paperwork so far. Just don't make me go get it notarized!

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 12:56 PM
I think I speak for all when I say we really want to continue gaming, but we want to do it in a way that is best for you guys. You're more than OP and CoOPs at this point, you're our friends. Friends want to hang out with each like they have been but they want to keep each happy.

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 12:56 PM
Friends send each other gifts because they love them

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 12:56 PM
grumbles

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 12:56 PM
nod We're fam.

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 12:56 PM
What Gio said
Mhm

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 12:57 PM
pets penguin

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 12:57 PM
I was hoping my oneshots were bringing back the whimsy from older PL.
pets @AgathodaeMonfrox

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 12:59 PM
Alright, what elements would you like to see gone?

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 12:59 PM
Nothing. Game was fine as it was.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 12:59 PM
I think it'd be easier to say which ones we can't live without.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 12:59 PM
Don't worry about hurting feelings either. Swith would rather scrap it all and reboot with all our characters intact.

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 12:59 PM
How so @Lady Beatnik [Gio]

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 12:59 PM
Alright, what elements MUST we keep?

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:01 PM
Well Tilt, getting rid of something implies a responsibility that some people may feel guilty about. They don't want to throw away something they feel someone else might want or be disappointed over. It'd yield better results to have a passive, positive approach.

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 1:01 PM
ie:

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:01 PM
But I like stuff the way it is

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:01 PM
Missions, but with a new standard, either stupid simple or planned out with an end date in mind

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:01 PM
Idk I should sleep
I can't contribute anything worthwhile with my brain fried from a twelve hour shift

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 1:02 PM
Good one, Ched.
Gio, it's alright to suggest things we can drop. Others can weigh in on why we should keep them.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:03 PM
nod

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 1:03 PM
pie

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:03 PM
Just know that I like the things the way they are. I used to feel like the tool characters were overpowered but the keyword is "used to"
And that was like a year ago

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 1:03 PM
Cer, I gave some potentially stupid and uninformed suggestions over PM
Tell me if I'm a silly newb or not :stuck_out_tongue:

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:04 PM
I also like stuff the way it is, but I'm not going to force a game Cer says he doesn't want to run anymore. I want to, at the very least, have the ability to go on missions to far away places as well as hang out in the Building. As long as I have that, I can work everything else out.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 1:05 PM
It's not stupid, Souls. Good feedback.

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:06 PM
Make the building tighter, like a motel with a lobby and little diner, keep it small and light, no loitering, grab your damn coffee and get your ass in that gate

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 1:06 PM
Let's see...I mean, so far as I can see the main thing was overpowered characters? I'm not even sure what else there might be to fix or not fix. Is there any problem with the setting? We could stash UA and Bielefeld behind Gates too and set missions or light stories in each respectively? So there's a zone for intense play and one for breaks.

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:06 PM
Wait but why not have a diner be at the gates, Ched

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:07 PM
That's better

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 1:07 PM
The gates were meant for fun as well as missions.

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 1:07 PM
Overpowered chars I can't really say how to fix since that's all relative and I think we do all right at balancing.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:07 PM
Mon had a pretty good suggestion

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:07 PM
Answer "op" character with a genuine rereview of apps?

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:08 PM
You'd be surprised how much sheer convenience plays in people's motivation. When they're nearer to something, even mentally, they're more likely to use it.

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 1:08 PM
^
Ibuprofennec [Swith] - Today at 1:08 PM
coughs
What about we bring Bielefeld to Galli? Scrap Ascalon and the Burrows. That's our home, isn't it? And no more God War. We have a new mission. We... the good, the bad, and the ugly, are saving the universe a bit at a time.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 1:08 PM
Hm.

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:08 PM
Yeah yeah

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 1:08 PM
Burrows too? I guess.

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:09 PM
Well fuck

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 1:09 PM
Wasn't the God War part of saving the universe a bit at a time?

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:09 PM
Brb

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:09 PM
So, do like the end of Super Mario Galaxy where all the levels in outer space were combined with the Mushroom Kingdom?

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:09 PM
Burrows is gone puts a new spin on Brit's PTSD

Ibuprofennec [Swith] - Today at 1:09 PM
No burrows. Move that far away. I'll fucking redesign the whole setting if need be. But I miss old shit, and I want us to be able to play all over Galli.
Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 1:09 PM
rightoz

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 1:09 PM
I- have never played Super Mario Galaxy. lel

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 1:09 PM
stares at Gio

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:10 PM
It was cool

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:10 PM
Neither have I, I just know what happened from Game Theory.

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:10 PM
The gates remind me of the paintings in Super Mario 64
How each world was a painting you jumped into

Ibuprofennec [Swith] - Today at 1:11 PM
WE made bielefeld. We built it together, during personification player. All the beauty... that was us as a team. That's what I miss most. Us, as a team. Nobody was making things to get more shit for their own character. It was making stuff for all to enjoy.
Looking at us know, I could just cry.

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:11 PM
Please be a happy cry
We love you

Ibuprofennec [Swith] - Today at 1:11 PM
It's a sad cry, Mon. Your character doesn't get to shine much anymore. Neither does Sterling, or Willow. Or MB. I miss that rabbit. I miss a lot of characters.
I miss Mab, and never got to interact with Col Fluffy.

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 1:13 PM
Feel free to have swith over your shoulder cer. I can't copy that block of text RN.

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:13 PM
I think we need more character interaction too
But it's hard with irl

Ibuprofennec [Swith] - Today at 1:13 PM
We do, Mon.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:14 PM
I think the idea of bringing back old elements while keeping new ones is a good compromise. It would be easy to give an IC explanation for, too - at least I think so. Demens does what Demens does.
(Since I did want to use the little toy shop I made, just never had the time or chance)

Ibuprofennec [Swith] - Today at 1:16 PM
We could add it to Bielefeld. Remember, that place can be nowhere and everywhere at once. That was its magic.

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 1:17 PM
Sure is.

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:17 PM
We need our magic back

Ibuprofennec [Swith] - Today at 1:18 PM
We need our heart back.

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:18 PM
Yeah

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:18 PM
Okay I wasn't going to get that heavy but you're not wrong
We've gained a lot though over the time

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:19 PM
nod

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:19 PM
We know what works and what doesn't and there is always room to grow

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 1:19 PM
PLayer was tops (nods at Swiffer)

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:20 PM
Dammit, I want to stay but I'm so burnt out right now
I'm gonna go to bed
I love you all and I'm glad I get to spend my time with you

Ibuprofennec [Swith] - Today at 1:21 PM
Okay. Lemme risk Mod wrath and work up a worldbuild/archive thread. Details. Stuff that makes things good, stuff we'll design as a group, just... work things out in print. Things to return PL's heart and soul. Then people can decide if they want it or want to continue with Abyss.
huggles Mon Sleep.

AgathodaeMonfrox - Today at 1:21 PM
Yes ma'am

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 1:21 PM
Cer has permission to copy all of my comments with him wherever he wants

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 1:22 PM
nod I'll add them to the growing pile.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:25 PM
At the risk of becoming a glorified chat thread, maybe we do need some time for everyone to just chill and find their grounding as players. Maybe then we can come up with a new overarching plot more cohesive to everyone.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 1:28 PM
^ We've lost touch with our "normal person" side, hence all we see are Mary Sues.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:30 PM
And like we've said before, most of the players that used to turn everyday activities into "sit around and talk about our crushes and depressing pasts" fests are gone, so it shouldn't be as risky. The players left over are the ones that can turn small events into major events.

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 1:30 PM
^

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:34 PM
yup
fun is the golden rule

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:35 PM
And who knows, maybe those major events will be the thing to create a new major plot. The "God War" itself came from cha!Gio's long-since-scrapped motivations.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 1:35 PM
^

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:36 PM
righto
we'll figure this out, we're compromisers just trying to do what's best for everyone involved, my faith hasn't faltered
I can never give up on this game nor our family, you can count on that

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:45 PM
... We really should have said this in the OOC. :stuck_out_tongue:

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:45 PM
yeah... :stuck_out_tongue:

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:45 PM
Anyone want me to copy-past the convo from here to there?

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:45 PM
I'm good with that

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 1:47 PM
The Tl;dr of my major input to cer, entirely grantedly as a very new player, was that the reality being described as an issue seems to conflict with the very nature of the OP. The OP describes the general concept of the org and missions being to basically build up, stockpile, arm, etc for a greater conflict. Insert god war or other impending doom, whose minions we ocassionally encounter among other random threats as necessary. This seems to be at odds with the issue of players supposedly hoarding power, technology, or self-development. My impression from the OP was that these things should all be contributing to the group. The more radical suggestion I made along these lines was that players individually keeping items and such is banned or heavily restricted. A heavier focus is placed on these being handed over to the group, catalogued, studied, and advances gained from them implemented. The effect I imagine that having, is that by handing over Artifact X to the team, you spin activity in several realms. You're giving less combat focused characters something more to do. Your researchers, your engineers, etc have something to work with, and a goal - figure out how best to use this. Combat characters have to interact with these characters then, especially to gain power or items. You want a new weapon? Well, then you have to talk to someone about their work studying x, y, or z, and collaborate, write, and create it into something. It also inherently shifts the focus from benefiting the player towards benefitting the group. Many people benefit from a mission success. You open up all sorts of avenues for training, testing, giving feedback on how something worked in the field, etc.(edited)

It could be silly, but that's an input I have based on what I got from the OP compared to what I've seen and heard so far.
I don't see why item and power hoarding should be an issue when the OP specifically sets this up as a concept where most of our characters are recruited with the explicit purpose of helping the group toward <insert greater conflict>. The powers that be would have no use for someone hoarding things for themselves, and not fulfilling the goal they were saved from impending doom to assist with.(edited)

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:53 PM
a plot hole?

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 1:54 PM
More, folks can be told that they can be returned to their moment of impending death as easily as they were plucked from it, if they cease to contribute appropriately :stuck_out_tongue:

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:56 PM
It's a good observation Souls, though I'd say that it's a little incomplete.

See, there's always been sort of a false assumption among players that the more epic shit you've got under your belt, the more likely you are to get something to do and stand out, when honestly, it depends more on the sheer writing strength and ingenuity of the player themselves. The main reason we had our recent drama with a now ex-player is because they were constantly complaining about "powerful characters" stealing all their chances to do anything when in reality it was 99% that player's fault for absolutely refusing to do anything. Other players have had similar issues. Items or no items, if that attitude is in place, the problem will remain.

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 1:57 PM
I see that.
On the other hand, enforcing this could help towards that.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 1:57 PM
nod
Of course. I'm just imagining that in such a solution, you'd inevitably get a scenario where someone says,

"The CoOPs are so selfish for keeping all the cool items to themselves! Why can't I have any?!"
"Why don't you set up a meeting so you can?"
"I just don't know."

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 1:58 PM
yeah...

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:00 PM
If someone feels underpowered, they can seek out a techie and ask to field test a new prototype or something. That explicitly gives them something to do, while spinning other interactions and writings. It's the classic "here, take this gun and go shoot a bunch of things with it, tell me how it goes!" The key I think there is that, compared to hoarded items, there's a drive and incentive to use things as well. More powerful or comfortable players won't feels as much of a need to seek out these things. Maybe they can focus more on refining what they have?
This is also, from the perspective of someone who has applied with a character that is explicitly not geared towards combat.

Koth - Today at 2:00 PM
i seriously need to work up the motivation to PLost
but i have not been feeling it lately

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 2:00 PM
Oh my god. "I don't know," "I just don't know," "I just feel like," "I don't know about that," "I don't know, I just feel..." It's always something like that. "I don't know" and "I feel like" in all my years of RP'ing are always the two big cop-outs people use when they realize they don't actually have proof for any of the problems they think exist.

/topic

I digress(edited)

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:01 PM
nods

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 2:04 PM
Also, @Ibuprofennec [Swith] why risk another thread? Can't you just start posting in the current archive and link to the specific post where it begins in future use?

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:07 PM
Well, that relates to the second main feedback I gave cer, which basically boiled down to - RP's do one of two things. They peter out somewhere in the middle, or they reach a planned conclusion. Personally, I've always preferred moving towards a conclusion. An end is an end, but it's also a new beginning for spinoffs, follow ups, etc. what ruins great TV shows? Trying to shove in filler to get another few seasons in when the story is ready to be done. I'm reaching even more here, becuase again I am a newcomer, but it seems at a glance that PL is sorta lacking purpose and drive. The big bad needs to be real. Threatening. Maybe destroy a base or kill some people. Some of the missions need to contribute seriously towards the main plot. The build up could be intended to takes years more to come! But it seems like there should be a tangible build up, with victories, traps, setbacks, wins and losses. An enemy that is pertinent and actually scary. A motivation towards eventual conclusion. No one likes ending an RP directionless in the middle...so you need a direction, and an end in mind, eventually. I recognize that I could be misjudging PL, that maybe the intent is to remain in a limbo of missions and character building and hanging out. But I get the vibe that it could use...a kick in the ass. Something giving meaning to finding quiet moments together. Something to make folks appreciate what they have, and the quiet time they get between missions. A real danger.(edited)
More of a general fiction feedback, becuase I'm not deeply familiar with PL specifically

Koth - Today at 2:08 PM
paragraphing souls
ever heard of it

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:08 PM
But characters need a plot, and a lot needs motivation.
Mobile. Sorry.

Koth - Today at 2:09 PM
damn if that was my phone Discord would have crashed three times before I finished that lol

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:09 PM
XD

Koth - Today at 2:10 PM
I generally agree with Souls with the obvious caveat that I too have no idea of the greater threats everyone else has been dealing with

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:10 PM
My two cents are fully noted as my own two cents, from AFAIK the most junior player here, but I figured it couldn't hurt to toss my thoughts out there.
Feel free to tell me I am totally wrong about the gist of PL :stuck_out_tongue:

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:25 PM
you're not wrong souls, but it seems like we might be scrapping those parts
old PL didn't seem to really have a single motivation, iirc

Koth - Today at 2:27 PM
I wonder if that could be addressed in the upcoming resident's meeting pen_mouth:

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:28 PM
Imho it's harder to work long term without an overarching threat
You can do it

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:28 PM
yes I know

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:28 PM
Minibosses of sorts
Higher "level" threats that come and go.
It's like....NCIS :stuck_out_tongue:

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:29 PM
though I'm starting to think its almost cruel of us to make the gm's keep the game running just because we don't want it to end

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:29 PM
Season plots, but the show as a whole just exists.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:29 PM
given this is the at least forth time its come up

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:29 PM
Which can work, but can be harder to motivate

Koth - Today at 2:29 PM
it's obvious there's a lot of love for the game and the story
but i guess like
how much progress over the course of the story has actually been made towards ending the God War
legitimate question, I have no idea

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:30 PM
I seems like you need a refresh/reset. Stip off some stuff that isn't working great. Implement some policies to get back to the core. Workshop a new driving motivation. Etc.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:30 PM
there isn't an end to the god war
from what I understand

Koth - Today at 2:31 PM
so what's the point

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:31 PM
It doesn't matter if it's the god war or something else; but if some minions we defeat along the way are dropping hints and clues towards a greater escalation, that's good for motivation

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:31 PM
not dying

Koth - Today at 2:31 PM
I could have not-died in my home dimension
not a good motivation

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:31 PM
You never know which threats are random pop up threats, which are minions of the big bad, and which are the latter sneakily disguised as the former.(edited)
And that's good for the missions

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 2:32 PM
pets @Economa Incorporated [Souls] and @Koth while smiling inside because Athena

Koth - Today at 2:32 PM
hiya tilt

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:32 PM
Heya

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 2:32 PM
ie:

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:33 PM
Something I discused with cer was that the bads here seem...under intelligent. Should be more traps. The characters seem complacent. Used to winning. Seems like a prime setup for a mission that's all a setup, where a team is led into bringing home something actually containing a powerful enemy, delivered right to the heart of operations. That was one dart I threw out.
It was mentioned also re:hoarding that a lot of these things just get shoved in a corner somewhere. These are powerful, often magic, items! It's like dumping bags of random chemicals in a chest! You could get some nasty reactions, unexpected accelerations, set something free...

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:35 PM
well, it's always seemed to me like the ultimate bad is just a force of nature
that there's not much we can really /stop/ about it

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:35 PM
Then why does the team exist?

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:35 PM
I might be wrong in that assumption but that's how I understood it

Koth - Today at 2:35 PM

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 3:35 PM
Then why does the team exist?
^^^^^^^^

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:35 PM
Becuase the OP says we exist to assist in the conflict, delay it, etc.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:35 PM
because we're working for the force of nature that works against that one
preservation vs destruction

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:36 PM
We're supposedly materially helping some greater good, or at least greater force for existance, with this fight.

Koth - Today at 2:36 PM
but it's ultimately just throwing more lives into the meat grinder

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:36 PM
But I haven't heard of anything that's actually forming a material contribution(edited)

Koth - Today at 2:36 PM
maybe our characters don't know that
but we do

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:36 PM
I never understood how much we could help really

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:36 PM
Especially if stuff is just hoarded.
Rather than learned from and developed.
And hey, that can totally be a plot
Maybe we are just meat grinder fuel

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 2:38 PM
Yeah, a bit of me always felt that even Romy would get gib pretty quickly if the Nifid residents couldn't even handle what the Devourers were supposed to be like. And characters like Nivea are vaporized way more immediately in that kinda fight

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:38 PM
We get a bit of extra life to live, in return for believing we're important, and effectively giving the greater forces more batteries for their fight or something
But that can be worked with too

Koth - Today at 2:38 PM
Honestly as a player I lose motivation super quick in a setting where it feels like nothing I do is actually doing anything
I have better things to do

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:38 PM
The bads would want to prevent us from fueling the goods with artifacts or whatever

Koth - Today at 2:38 PM
Again I have like 6 posts in PL
so I haven't even got out of the loredump stage

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:39 PM
Even if it's clear we can't directly be in this fight for the most part, that it's over our heads, seems like we could have a clearer role in helping those who can.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 2:39 PM
The point with the Devourers was moreso to subdue them from getting out of control. Like, in Avatar, the goal wasn't to blow the Fire Nation off the face of the map, but to stop it from taking over the world.

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:40 PM
There's also an argument for various other angles. A classic is "humans are creative/innovative." There are others.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:40 PM
yeah sorta like we're righting something off about what's going on right now

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:40 PM
Something that makes the existiance of the organization meaningful in the end, is what I'm saying
Why do we exist? Why bother saving our characters? Cops aren't the military, mechanics don't shoot down enemy planes, but they still have a role in the greater conflict. What's our job?

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 2:42 PM
Bakery

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 2:43 PM
I think Cer probably has intended answers to that, the problem being that it's hard to get to that point where they could be revealed.
Twas why I was going to set up a research group, to find tangible ways to fight.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:44 PM
you know that might be the problem that leads to the complaints too?
people feeling like their charcaters are meaningless because the players don't understand the scope properly

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 2:45 PM
and that's part of why they want to hoard, to feel worthy

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:45 PM
Aye. Going back to one of my wild suggestions, some serious threat to the base could be a good refresh motivator. It allows for potential changes of scenery, rules, and so forth. Can kill people off, if need be. Can come in and say, "we need to change how we're doing x! We've been slacking off too much!" Etc.
Maybe it's a stupid idea

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:45 PM
I've gone with it because I trust cer and swith know what they're doing

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:45 PM
But it's a clean messy shift :stuck_out_tongue:

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:45 PM
but not everyone implicitly trusts gms for that

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:45 PM
A meeting along works too, but a close call might give it extra ooomph
>>people feeling like their charcaters are meaningless because the players don't understand the scope properly

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 2:46 PM
TBF, that's what the meetings were for, to make it so chars could understand the scope.

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:46 PM
Based on how surprised cer was that I actually read the whole Op and linked material
I wouldn't say that's necessarily wrong xD

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 2:49 PM
yeah

Koth - Today at 2:50 PM
i dont think ive used the OOC thread once beyond my app

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:51 PM
As I said earlier, the vibe I got on reading it was that you're in kind of a situation where, yeah being saved is great for your character, but you were saved for a reason.
If you ever start to disagree with orders, or diverge from the purpose, I got the impression you'd be sharply reminded via a visit to our quarters that you are alive and here becuase you are a tool of a greater purpose...and broken tools are disposed of. A cold, practical, underlying purpose. They don't save you becuase you're nice. They save you becuase you're useful, not becuase they like you. We live at the mercy of the org, so we damned well better do our work. We can socialize and enjoy ourselves too, but only if it's not impacting our work. I figured our benefactors allow it becuase happy workers are hard workers...but they do need to be hard workers.
And yeah paste away
I didn't feel like making an extensive forum post from mobile

Koth - Today at 2:52 PM
i think i'm struggling with forum RP because I don't feel like making extensive forum posts ever
it's more work than fun

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:52 PM
you know, that might also be an issue, the whole method of it going from random to "because we saved your life" kinda changed the dynamic for new characters didn't it?

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:52 PM
Did it not used to be that way?
Becuase then yes, that'd be an interesting dynamic.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:52 PM
nah, it was generally just random?

Koth - Today at 2:53 PM
i believe they changed it because it gave players motivation to go back

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 2:53 PM
yeah
in this way there's less to go back because there's not much alternative I guess

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:53 PM
As far as my introduction was concerned, characters were "recruited" from people who were about to die. Your choice is participate or be returned to your death. Ergo, most participate :stuck_out_tongue:

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 2:53 PM
Alright people, quit giving me more shit to paste

Koth - Today at 2:53 PM
Furthermore...

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 2:54 PM
slap

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:54 PM
sighs okay forums it is
Should just get everyone in discord tbh

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 2:54 PM
Everything runs together and I need to paragraph it

Koth - Today at 2:54 PM
I agree with Souls
I am not going to post in OOC

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:55 PM
I mean I will
XD

Koth - Today at 2:55 PM
not because I'm like vehemently against it or anything
but because I just am not paying attention to it
I can interject here in seconds without having to collect thoughts and post on a forum

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:55 PM
I just think that while the forums work great for multiple ic things interacting and people going back and stuff, ooc convos carry better in real time.
But I will follow over to the forums, since that's the established ground.

ComradeSamIAm [Gren] - Today at 2:56 PM
OOC is the glue that holds an RP together.

Koth - Today at 2:56 PM
I don't think anyone disagrees

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 2:56 PM
This chat is called planning for PL xD

Koth - Today at 2:56 PM
i think it's just the area on which the OOC takes place

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 2:57 PM
This channel is more for when chat goes off track to planning. Ideally, planning should be done in OOC.

[Giovenith]

Min makes a good point. Before we uproot anything, we should make sure that the problems actually are rooted there and won't just remain even after we've made drastic changes.

We should break down and get organized about the specific issues at play and where they stem from.

[Primordial Luxa]

Some thoughts. Take what you like ignore what you don't

1. I think a reboot sounds fairly plausible. Maybe hard. Bring it all back to Bielefeld and have everyone show up and start meeting each other again for the first time. Make it about powerful people having a good time and contrast the crazy with the mundane. Primordials upset with the Cashier because they won't accept souls as payment, The Droids need to get a drivers license to operate themselves, stuff like that. I promise not to spindle NPC's, but I think a degree of being able to be a bit "out there" would be nice, maybe being able to drive some folks mad in a cartoonish way.

2. Keep the missions but maybe call them something else, journeys. Do more things like Booze Run and Raider. Little missions that stop in fun places do something quick and move on. I think if we make stories short and unique it will keep people involved. The issue is interesting wander which I think stems from boredom and routine. If people constantly have these short and sweet missions they won't be able to grow bored. Another way to keep missions short and sweet is to keep the player base small. 3-4 people, means one person is less likely to hold us up and its easier for people to all interaction.

I love this thread. I love you guys. I know I don't say it as often as I should, but I do. I've never met one of you IRL but your honestly some of my best friends.
I realize the thread will end at some point but I don't think it needs to now. Even if we need to make a closed thread that's just the classic characters and those we consider ideal players this setting is too good to end just yet. I...I never felt like I contributed to this thread. Swith and Cer are just good writers. Gio's so creative. NVE...Oh darling NVE. Ched, Lykos, Slo. All of you have done such great things and you push me to try harder.

[Tiltjuice]

Some thoughts. Take what you like ignore what you don't

1. I think a reboot sounds fairly plausible. Maybe hard. Bring it all back to Bielefeld and have everyone show up and start meeting each other again for the first time. Make it about powerful people having a good time and contrast the crazy with the mundane. Primordials upset with the Cashier because they won't accept souls as payment, The Droids need to get a drivers license to operate themselves, stuff like that. I promise not to spindle NPC's, but I think a degree of being able to be a bit "out there" would be nice, maybe being able to drive some folks mad in a cartoonish way.

2. Keep the missions but maybe call them something else, journeys. Do more things like Booze Run and Raider. Little missions that stop in fun places do something quick and move on. I think if we make stories short and unique it will keep people involved. The issue is interesting wander which I think stems from boredom and routine. If people constantly have these short and sweet missions they won't be able to grow bored. Another way to keep missions short and sweet is to keep the player base small. 3-4 people, means one person is less likely to hold us up and its easier for people to all interaction.

I love this thread. I love you guys. I know I don't say it as often as I should, but I do. I've never met one of you IRL but your honestly some of my best friends.
I realize the thread will end at some point but I don't think it needs to now. Even if we need to make a closed thread that's just the classic characters and those we consider ideal players this setting is too good to end just yet. I...I never felt like I contributed to this thread. Swith and Cer are just good writers. Gio's so creative. NVE...Oh darling NVE. Ched, Lykos, Slo. All of you have done such great things and you push me to try harder.

(thumbsup)

[Giovenith]

Koth - Today at 3:11 PM
the general idea is that there's a lack of heart that made the old PL great
I can't speak on that issue

Коммунистическая Сова [Agy] - Today at 3:11 PM
Down to help worldbuild but I'm burnt out on the rp, been burnt out for a while which is why i stopped posting

Koth - Today at 3:11 PM
because i haven't the foggiest of what that means

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:13 PM
It is a "you had to be there" kind of thing, Koth, unfortunately. Basically, in ye early days, people were way more willing to have meaningful interaction that culminated naturally into adventures instead of having to plan and force adventures and people being self-focused.

Koth - Today at 3:13 PM
makes sense
I figured it was something like that...PL isn't safe from the typical devolution of RP :stuck_out_tongue:
I wish I could help more but as a new player I can only really throw darts at the board for the most part

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 3:17 PM
@Коммунистическая Сова [Agy] you coming back?

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:17 PM
Hm. Swith's basic overlay is intriguing but I'll let her explain that once she's done outlining.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:17 PM
It might be an issue of us growing up too lol. A lot of the player base was younger back in the day

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:17 PM
The motivation to play is clearly still there, it's just that we're all confused about to create a set-up where such things can happen while remaining meaningful.

Koth - Today at 3:18 PM
Well

Коммунистическая Сова [Agy] - Today at 3:18 PM
Probably not, tilt

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:18 PM
We also don't want to step on people's toes

Koth - Today at 3:18 PM
I suppose the solution is to have the RP grow up with the players, NA

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:18 PM
We're trying koth lol

Koth - Today at 3:18 PM
nods

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:18 PM
That's what the God War was for

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:18 PM
For newcomers: The original setting was: Bielefeld doesn't exist in a single static location and moves as is needed. It borders Florida, Kentucky, Maine, and Minnesota all at once while still being found in the Sea of Japan, a few miles off the northern shore of South Africa, knocking Germany aside to hump France, and then pretending to be a tropical island. It moves on its own wont and does so with such grace that the inhabitants are completely unaware of the change. If faced with absolute absolute danger, it lifts its skirts and trots even further away. Its current location is between the UK and Denmark. Bielefeld has its own government as well as a city government and stands independent much like Monaco.

Коммунистическая Сова [Agy] - Today at 3:18 PM
I'm technically still semi active but from what I'm seeing I'm not very excited to come back. I'm burnt out lol

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:18 PM
But what if it was more? https://i.imgur.com/2SaVoF5.png

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:20 PM
okay

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:21 PM
The thought so far is that looser reigns will allow people to go back to that

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:21 PM
I wasn't around for Bielefeld, so I'm up for anything

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:24 PM
Apart from that -
Why the God War won't work:
1. Players got shitty attitudes when told they could not incorporate minions or agents into their stories.
2. We've gotten further away from magic recently, with tech/science/non-magic user characters.
3. Grabby-hands and demands to know how the greater beings work genuinely pisses me off. People insisting that their character's pantheon have a direct tie also pisses me off (Gio is grandfathered in, and thus does not piss me off)
4. The overarching story is fluid and shifts as player stories play out. Recent stories have had no real bearing on the overarching story.
5. We were going to jump into the God War feet-first when the Mundanes vs Supers thing happened. Days before launch, players got bitchy because it would ruin their character development projects, and they threatened to quit, grumbling behind the scenes and convincing others to quit. PL would have lost too many players.

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:25 PM
Obligatory
"Magic is just sufficiently advanced technology"

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:25 PM
^

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:25 PM
Yeah

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:27 PM
I don't mean to sound crabby. However, three solid years of work went into the God War and blam - all that canon can't be salvaged. It's like Star Wars only the Death Star was repossessed by Jabba, so nobody ever went there, nor was anyone held prisoner there.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:27 PM
I mean the ftl engine for the setting LC in is basically magitech cause some treat it totally scientifically like the HZ, and others like skritarii are more relgious/occult about how it work.

I mean I understand the feeling. Putting stuff together only for things to can't control breaking it.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:28 PM
Nobody blames you, Cer.

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:28 PM
^

Koth - Today at 3:28 PM
demands to know how the greater beings work genuinely pisses me off.
throws up arms(edited)
Hope I'm not doing that

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:28 PM
I know, Gio. I'd rather have a different (and better) overarching story)

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:28 PM
"This symbol draws on cosmic background power, and this one channels it. It's like a phone powered by radio waves. It's got an antenna of sorts drawing power from them, and a method of storing and converting that. It just...melts things, instead of making phone calls. Apparently cosmic background power is more intense than radio waves by several magnitudes."

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:28 PM
Koth, no. I'm talking about players than want to know so their characters have a boost, or are looking for loopholes.

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:28 PM
oh like a munchkin

Koth - Today at 3:29 PM
oh, okay

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:29 PM
People who want to know so they can pull something out of their ass that makes them able to personally fight the Greater Beings

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:29 PM
The GM saying "I'm not telling you" results in hard feelings.

Koth - Today at 3:29 PM
I'm just trying to learn the lore so im happy im not doing anything like that(edited)

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:29 PM
Ja, you're good
Believe us, we can tell the difference

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:29 PM
nod

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:30 PM
"It is beyond your character's concept of understanding. It'd be like explaining philosophy to a squirrel."

Koth - Today at 3:30 PM
I just very much want to make sure I'm doing all I can to contribute to a constructive and fun roleplaying experience

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:30 PM
Koth you are, no worry.

Koth - Today at 3:30 PM
i suppose the best thing I can do to that end is FUCKING POST(edited)

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:30 PM
Yeah munchkining is dumb

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:30 PM
You and Souls haven't been here long enough to have caused me any grief, I promise.

Koth - Today at 3:30 PM
:heart:
I don't know how you do it Cer

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:30 PM
No one does. Not even him.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:31 PM
I drop acid and watch Monty Python.

Koth - Today at 3:31 PM
I would have nuked the whole game if I had to put in as much as you do into a game

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:31 PM
Secret pills from the la-
Or acid
XD

Koth - Today at 3:31 PM
they have bart simpson on the tabs

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:31 PM
Anywho

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:32 PM
are we just waiting for outlines then?

Koth - Today at 3:32 PM
I suppose this is an asinine question but like
I should just continue as normal in character and not assume anything is changing right

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:32 PM
idk if I should plost for AoA or not
like if this is the right time or not

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:33 PM
Sorry lC dragged on forever too
Lc

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:34 PM
Here's what Swith's thinking:
The God War is too big, and peeves me off anyway. Dial it back. Make it something we can actually fight. What do we excel at? Missing socks. We always end up with all those manthoms - lost characters, wonky tech, wayward souls. We're supposed to be collecting shit for the God War efforts, but what if we're doing something a bit more noble? A bit more on our scale?

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:34 PM
Cer knows we're all sorry suckers :stuck_out_tongue:

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:34 PM
As long as we have a reason we're rescuing them.
Collecting them

Koth - Today at 3:34 PM
So how, in story, do you dial it back?

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:34 PM
Whatever

Koth - Today at 3:34 PM
Now that the characters know that there's a greater deal?

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:35 PM
Years ago, Swith had the suggestion that we take up the city's offer to handle supernatural crisis. We're beyond that now. But what if we were more in line with other popular fiction? Doctor Who sorts things, doesn't he? The Sanctuary collected the oddness of the universe and kept it safe. Etc etc.
The Doctor, that is. I suppose the role is a she now.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:36 PM
My biggest issue with this overarching plot was that it did feel way too big

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:36 PM
Way too big

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:36 PM
yeah

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:37 PM
We're Dr who level probably going against existential multiversal threat

Koth - Today at 3:37 PM
It also does kinda undermine everything Minerva just got finished telling Zan...but that's a minor issue :stuck_out_tongue:

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:37 PM
We focus on things within our power. We'll be challenged and have our ass handed to us, but we have a chance of success.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:37 PM
If it helps: the biggest goal I had as of late was have Willow make it back to Equestria and start trying to balance out his time there and his time at the Building, thus leading to issues of him having to hide/eventually explain humanity and the greater universe to certain ponies he's close with. I thought it would be good to keep his hooves full, give him more to lose, and potentially open up other players to more interpersonal opportunities.

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:37 PM
I suppose the thing then is, you still have large threat. Daleks and such. Recurring, major enemies.
It is still an recurring plot to a degree

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:37 PM
But!
He's never fought something that devours multiverses

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:38 PM
Familiar enemies who know younand want you gone
That is true.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:38 PM
Even he would fail against something that big

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:38 PM
We have all the world's governments to deal with. Fuckers already know too much. Do we really want Trump getting his hands on dark matter tech? Do we really want the Confederation dissecting a construct?

Koth - Today at 3:38 PM
Yeah...my character isn't equipped to deal with anything more dangerous than a particularly angry dog

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:39 PM
See

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:39 PM
And we can deal with minor things in other universe toi

Koth - Today at 3:39 PM
which I suppose is my fault for not looking at the fine print :stuck_out_tongue:

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:39 PM
I thought we were more separated than that cer :stuck_out_tongue:

Tilty the Petguin Fairy - Today at 3:39 PM
:thumbsup:

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:39 PM
Like LC has never seemed outside of our scope for one

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:39 PM
The whole "a whole different dimension" chat I got on arrival and all xD

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:39 PM
"Do we really want Trump getting his hands on dark matter tech?"

Why you gotta give me those images, man

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:39 PM
Koth, your character is a prime example of a character that is perfect because he's normal. No real super powers. We've gotten away from normal characters. Those are what made PL so great.

Koth - Today at 3:39 PM
nods

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:40 PM
lol Gio

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:40 PM
Sig has no super powers!

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:40 PM
Can't we have a fake president? Who's nice, and smart, and competent, and just... not Trump?

Koth - Today at 3:40 PM
Believe me.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:40 PM
Okay, how about president dog

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:40 PM
Souls, the physics won't change. Still greater beings, still a multitude of dimensions.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:40 PM
We do Dragonball and have the president of the USA be an intelligent dog
V:

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:40 PM
Bielefeld being in Earth reminds me of the flying city of Columbia from Bioshock infinite, it just fucked with the entire planet and before you know it they're bombing NYC

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:41 PM
Lol

Koth - Today at 3:41 PM
Or an Ender's Game-like reality where the Presidency is rotated out between genius level children
whose innocence is still intact

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:42 PM
Lol
I like dog president

Koth - Today at 3:42 PM
fucking furries
;P

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:42 PM
XD

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:42 PM
now I just can't this earth seriously XP

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:42 PM
Lol

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:42 PM
Back to subject

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:42 PM
^
It basically means a reset with a twist.
The characters know, we don't lose canon. However, we don't return to the God War storyline.
An agreement between players so we can get things on track and get back to enjoying the game.

Koth - Today at 3:44 PM
Are you asking us how we go about making this happen in game? Because that's my question
It's easy enough to agree OOC that shit needs to happen

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:44 PM
yeah of course Cer

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:44 PM
Naw, our IC resets are hilarious.

Koth - Today at 3:45 PM
Never seen one
now I'm intrigued

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:45 PM
but there'll be a question raised amongst our characters of simply "What now?"

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:45 PM
I think the main issue would come from accusations of us being a chat thread.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:45 PM
It's not as fun as a Zalgofest, but it won't be as weird as our arrival on Galli.

Koth - Today at 3:45 PM
Why?
re: Gio

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:45 PM
Gio, we lost our sit-and-chat players.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:46 PM
It's a historical complaint about PL

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:46 PM
We've gotten them before.
You're right, Cer.

Koth - Today at 3:46 PM
I suppose the other thing I'm wondering is why give a shit?

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:46 PM
Because there's a moratorium on chat threads

Koth - Today at 3:46 PM
Obviously I'm not a veteran P2TM goer

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:46 PM
Because we can get kicked out if NS

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:46 PM
We could get shut down

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:46 PM
Koth, once upon a time, a core group of players would bitch about never getting to do anything. Meanwhile, they were preoccupied with flirting IC. It was like fucking middle school, replete with giggles and groping.

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:46 PM
Then we need to find a new forum basically

Koth - Today at 3:46 PM
That's...how do you even enforce that?
Where's the line?
How do you distinguish between downtime character development and pointless socializing?

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:47 PM
Never been super clear, imo

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:47 PM
Gio, we'd still have missions. People to save, things to grab, skills to learn.

Koth - Today at 3:47 PM
Because pretty much everything I've done in PL so far is talking to people and not actually accomplishing anything
and that's fine to me because it's getting me situated

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:48 PM
Aliens to give
Cause it's obviously not you just using characters to talk to people?

Koth - Today at 3:48 PM
but under someone's critical eye...?

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:48 PM
It's got plot

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:48 PM
Koth, you're working towards a purpose. C/CLT threads don't have a purpose. It's basically chat.

Koth - Today at 3:48 PM
I see that, but I'm also trying to figure out how PL could go back to what Gio's worried about with this new trajectory

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:49 PM
It's just a worry

Koth - Today at 3:49 PM
nods

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:49 PM
PL is still a bit slice of life. Conversations happen.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:49 PM
Ja, sounds good.
Koth, basically, a C/CLT thread is literally just standing around talking IC. It's also known for being one-liner asterisk play. As opposed to being about character development and journeying to new places.
We've been accused in the past of basically being an "overglorified" chat thread. Same premise, more pretentious writing.

Koth - Today at 3:49 PM
I guess I just don't understand RP Nazis
Obviously I have no interest in participating in that type of vapid "RP"
but what if some kids do
idk

Luxa and/or Abaddon - Today at 3:50 PM
Hello.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:50 PM
Hey Prim.

Koth - Today at 3:50 PM
h0i pen_mouth:

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:50 PM
Cause they typebanged often

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:50 PM
They were banned because they got flirty and that led to illegal advanced flirty
So like

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:50 PM
Or used it for hookups

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:50 PM
Koth, currently only one C/CLT is allowed, Mod-run. The rest got shut down because people kept using them for cybersex.

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:50 PM
No excessive thinly veiled ooc flirty

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:50 PM
In tg and etc

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:50 PM
And that's the gig :stuck_out_tongue:

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:51 PM
It was mostly the cybersec yes

Koth - Today at 3:51 PM
Damn kids are silly
why do that shit on-site

Arsondog [Lykos/NA] - Today at 3:51 PM
Because stupid

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:51 PM
This is a chat location thread: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=413173&start=75

This is early PL: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=209414

Not much difference.

This is how far we've come: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=354357
We don't do vapid anymore.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:52 PM
As Cer said, the players who put us in trouble by acting that way are gone.
Or stopped doing it a long time ago.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:53 PM
How to avoid it: Zan and Gio have coffee. Long conversation about his need to fit in. Gio decides to help him look for a shop. It's an adventure. Zan sets up business. Now we have a new play zone. That doesn't happen in a chat thread.

Koth - Today at 3:53 PM
damn that is some dank evolution

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:53 PM
Koth totally.

Luxa and/or Abaddon - Today at 3:53 PM
I'm not crying...but I feel like I am. I put my two cents in the OOC. I...I want to help but i'm not sure how. And I'm sorry for everything.

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:54 PM
"Do more things like booze run" I see one flaw with this, potentially
Quoting from the thread

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:54 PM
Aw Prim, you're every bit the player as the rest of us.

Koth - Today at 3:54 PM
holy shit you guys really went the whole 9 yards in OOC while I wasn't looking

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:54 PM
Don't be sorry for anything, you didn't do anything

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:54 PM
Are fun, odd, less-serious missions like that still as fun if they're not a break from more serious stuff?

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:55 PM
Oh yeah.

Economa Incorporated [Squis] - Today at 3:55 PM
It's like, I'm not sure you'd want an entire season of Christmas specials, or beach episodes.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:55 PM
It'd be more like a "Regular Show" thing: everyday circumstances spin out of control into epic adventures.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:55 PM
I pretty much killed BRII due to my schedule and my apathy. Strep didn't help. I'm sorry, all, for delaying it. It's not fair to any of the people in that story.

Коммунистическая Сова [Agy] - Today at 3:56 PM
I haven't been posting so i don't mind, cer xP

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:56 PM
this is not our year

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:56 PM
Teething droid.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:56 PM
Clearly we've all had our hang-ups, there's no need for anyone to feel especially guilty

Koth - Today at 3:57 PM
oh my god I didn't even notice that people wished me a happy birthday on the OOC thread until now ;w;

Luxa and/or Abaddon - Today at 3:57 PM
But it was fun, a quick jaunt into different peoples worlds for a peak at a small thing. I just think they needed to be shorter and small. The one I had planned for Luxa would have been fun....I think.

Koth - Today at 3:57 PM
thanks guys, though belated

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:57 PM
yw

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:57 PM
You can still do it, Prim. Probably moreso now with this change.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:57 PM
Short, small, light, entertaining, growth

Luxa and/or Abaddon - Today at 3:57 PM
Exactly.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 3:57 PM
Like the Toothbrush adventure I did

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 3:58 PM
yup Cer
stupid simple
Luxa and/or Abaddon - Today at 3:58 PM

The big issue is length and group size IMO.
A big group like Booze Run is hard to interact with. The Raider shows how a small group works well. But the other issue is time. If you stretch it out too long people lose interest as well. Thats partially RL problems and not. But thats the one area where Raiders fails is its too ambitious in its length

Koth - Today at 3:59 PM
(Minor point: Will these changes culminate in a new thread? Will it take effect immediately for those characters already out on missions?)

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 3:59 PM
We need missions to end ASAP.

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 4:00 PM
pull the plug and shove it back in?

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 4:00 PM
For BRII, it's a matter of being sucked back into the ship. It's scrubbed, though we can return sometime for the sake of fun/visiting/cultural experience.

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 4:00 PM
viewtopic.php?p=22506388#p22506388
toothbrush

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 4:01 PM
Toothbrush nods
Does anyone remember the exploding shrew?

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 4:01 PM
Ja!

Luxa and/or Abaddon - Today at 4:01 PM
Me and Slo can figure something out quickly I think if we do a big collab.
for raiders

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 4:01 PM
AoA can go for its break once I shove the group in back room and get them teleported out

Luxa and/or Abaddon - Today at 4:01 PM
But you should probably send us both a TG.

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 4:02 PM
Prim, Slo is pretty close to the end, from what I understand. That would leave LC. Ched's ready to bring people in from AoA.

Luxa and/or Abaddon - Today at 4:02 PM
Alright then cool

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 4:02 PM
And the people in the Outermark. @Tilty the Petguin Fairy and @T-1000 Civet [Min] where are we with that?

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 4:02 PM
just got off the ground? Eh

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 4:03 PM
So, yeah. I can't really see anything else that needs ironing out.

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 4:04 PM
is still singing a lease

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 4:04 PM
Swith doesn't know if she wants to use the residents meeting as a kickoff, or just do one of our crazy transitions.
You MUST sign the lease.

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 4:05 PM
do that crazy transition, end that meeting already

Lich Cat Perch [Cer] - Today at 4:05 PM
Have Varg make an appearance in humanoid form? "GET OUT OF MY BONES!"

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 4:05 PM
lol
Wilhelm pops in "You guys seen Romy? Tell him he forgot to show up for work 133,453 years ago and he's fired"

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 4:07 PM
That reminds of this story about this guy who stopped coming for work years ago without warning, and his company never noticed, and only did when they tried to give him an award for perfect attendance (since he never called in sick and they just assumed he was there)

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 4:07 PM
Romy forgot to punch out
:stuck_out_tongue:

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 4:08 PM
The company thing: this went on for six years.

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 4:08 PM
oh wow

Economa Incorporated [Souls] - Today at 4:09 PM
Yes, but I need a reply first xD

Lady Beatnik [Gio] - Today at 4:09 PM
"What do you mean he hasn't been coming in?!"
"H-He never quit, and he never called in sick, so we just assumed Charles was still with it!"
"Did any of you actually see Charles?!"
"... Uh, well..."
Last problem: Make a pinata out of whoever's been fucking with Swith

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 4:11 PM
meanwhile Wilhelm CLXII just realized that Romy had to be liquidated of all his assets cause the interests in his account were becoming too much for the economy.
YES, Gio

ComradeSamIAm [Gren] - Today at 4:12 PM
I'm not sure Cer wants to be made into a pinata.

Moléhill Moniolé [Ched] - Today at 4:13 PM
I see what you did there Gren

Good talk, everyone! Can't wait to get back on track.

[Giovenith]

Let's brighten things up and breathe life back in!

Let's go with one of our favorite OOC memes: ask ze questions.

Tilt: What is MB's relationship with the Easter Bunny?
Prim: If your characters had to pick "normal" sounding pseudonyms, what would they call themselves?
NA: What is Sterling's favorite book?
Ched: Will Nivea consider being Nivea's mascot?
Swith: Myra has to either save a puppy or the complete works of Shakespeare from a burning Building. Which does she pick?
Cer: Does Volker ever make things out of office supplies?
Koth: Is the glass half empty or half full to Zan?
Mon: Does Kafka read the books by the author she shares a name with?

[Holy Lykos]

Sterling's favorite book is probably something like the pony version of hitchhikers guide. The writing amuses him, and since he mostly studies nonfiction and scholarly books it's refreshing to have something so absurdist in front of him.

[Chedastan]

Nivea will definitely consider herself as her own mascot... But then she'll get confused when you tell her it's for the lotion company, and then she'll be like "Wait what? My pa told me I was uniquely named, what the hell is this, what you mean by my name being 'trademarkable?' This is too weird." But she'll shut her mouth if you showed her a big fat check.

[Primordial Luxa]

Let's brighten things up and breathe life back in!

Let's go with one of our favorite OOC memes: ask ze questions.

Tilt: What is MB's relationship with the Easter Bunny?
Prim: If your characters had to pick "normal" sounding pseudonyms, what would they call themselves?
NA: What is Sterling's favorite book?
Ched: Will Nivea consider being Nivea's mascot?
Swith: Myra has to either save a puppy or the complete works of Shakespeare from a burning Building. Which does she pick?
Cer: Does Volker ever make things out of office supplies?
Koth: Is the glass half empty or half full to Zan?
Mon: Does Kafka read the books by the author she shares a name with?

Francis, Asenath, and Wilbur. Named after prominent figures in their religion.

[Monfrox]

Actually, yes. Kakfa is very learned for her age, and booksmart. She had a bit of trouble keeping up with the other SOf operators during training because she was originally a Secret Interior Service officer.

[Swith Witherward]

I tried to organize all the stuff discussed in voice chat last night, as well as some things brought up in TG, email, DM, PM and all other parts known and unknown. The solutions are suggestions offered by the group (meaning not just the staff). Please read it over and weigh in. I'm apologizing in advance if I missed anyone's suggestion.

I'm pretty drained after going through so much frikken communication.

---

The Setting
It's not working.Too many cooks. Too many things that don't mesh. No really fun activities. CoOPs have to have time to run a story in order for players to visit places. Players dislike Ascalon and think it should be a Gate-accessible place.

Solution Part 1: move Bielefeld in. It's familiar. The NPCs are familiar. Veteran players can "tour guide" it for newer people. We'll have our festivals back. This is the zone for when players want relaxed, casual character development. The Burrows would move closer to the Wold, and Ascalon would go away. (Map redesign stuff)

Solution Part 2: go explore Galli when we have a solid, main plot-related reason to explore it. This was the original concept. It's meant to be an adventure.

The Posting
Players are frustrated because stories are crawling along. People are not posting. Stories die or are cut short.

Solution Part 1: Life gets in the way. Poor manners are not an excuse.

• If you can not post for a while, withdraw your character from a story.
  
• If you are simply sick or going on holiday or studying for finals - communicate with us all via the OOC and grant permission for someone in that group to run your character.
• Take initiative if others in your group are not posting.
• Do not sign up for stories just because you're bored.
Solution Part 2: PL IC posting frequency is, at minimum, twice weekly. For those that work long hours, weekends are the only time they are active. However, if people post during the week, the weekend players are able to drop short posts in on a weeknight, thus stories move.

The Stories
Player-run stories are too complex for a "side adventure". Players begin to resent missing out of things when trapped in a long-running story. Some players have complained that they're limited to reaction shots. It feels too disjointed... the stories are not contributing to the game's overarching purpose. There are too many characters in most stories. There is way too much description and side-stories within the stories.

Solution Part 1: Treat Gate stories like a TV program episode. It should fit within a short time frame and build upon the overarching premise. The purpose is "get in, accomplish objective, get out". Example:

• Giovenith and Marcus are asked to run to 7-11 for a loaf of bread; along the way, they run into an agent from another Demens' team, and he asks them to pass a message on to the Galli group. The pair return with the bread. Now the group can eat before the next mission... a mission that arises because of the agent's news.
  
• If Giovenith and Marcus first visit the Asian market for magic bean paste, and also buy a mysterious scroll, and then take the scroll to an apothecary to see if they have magical ingredients, then battle some bad guys that try to take the scroll, and then go to 7-11... the group back home has starved, and players are pissed because their mission is delayed. Plus, the OP can't work in that Demen's agent without making it seem like an afterthought.

Solution Part 2: no more than 3 characters on a team (including the GM's character) for sake of brevity. There will be times when a large group goes through a Gate, but this is reserved for special circumstances.

Solution Part 3: No more collabs as the main means of roleplaying once the new IC and OOC go up, barring a special circumstance (Zalgofests, a major time skip for the thread, etc). It takes little effort to have a conversation in-thread, provided players make an effort to have three-lines in a post. It keeps the thread in motion. Players are allowed to post more often if they're having conversations.

Solution Part 4: The "novel-writing" is what keeps many people from posting more than once every few weeks. They do NOT have time to digest massive posts, nor formulate an appropriately lengthy reply. They end up giving reaction shots and then lose track of the objective. If an element isn't crucial to the story, skip it. Nobody cares if John the NPC is using a sterling silver spoon fashioned by alien slugs' acidic bubblegum... especially if the spoon is not a focal point and only just a prop to make John look busy.

Solution Part 5: We go back to "Run it by the OP first". Cer determines if something will work. Also, as in the 'bread example' above, he might insert an NPC into that story to further the overarching plot.

If there's one thing players always seem to miss, it's the OP treats. He tucks them in, and people don't act upon them... they get too busy with their own stuff.

Here's how it works: (Absurd Level example)
1. Beckett is building a Plot Device. He needs a McGuffin. The character doesn't go on missions due to physical limitations.
2. Venla's world has a McGuffin. Lucky, that! Cer asks NA to run the story.
3. NA takes two characters through a Gate to acquire the McGuffin.
4. On their way back to the Gate, someone shoves a Doorstop Baby into Venla's arms.
5. The team returns. The McGuffin goes into the Plot Device. The Baby goes to Volker.
6. A week later, Volker asks Minerva to lead a team through a Gate to get the Doorstop Baby back to his proper Time and Dimension. It's ancient Egypt, and he belongs in a basket on the Nile.
7. On the way back to the Gate, a slave offers the team an old scroll in trade for a bite to eat.
8. The team returns, and the scroll goes to Sandy. Oooh magic potion that turns someone invisible? Sounds like an adventure to get ingredients...

Communication Methods
Nobody has the time to check TG, then check the OSF PMs, then check the Discord PLanning thread, then check the Discord DMs, and then check email just to answer some question or approve a plan. It is getting too confusing. Players have complained because messages are being dropped between them, or go unanswered. Enough.

Solution: ALL PL communication will be done via the OOC. Yes, we can use the PLanning channel, but a copy should be placed here in order for us to refer back to it as a group. You can still use TG if you need to discuss something you don't want made public.

The "Papers"
This was not brought up in voice chat, but Cer's been extremely vocal behind the scenes. The paper characters exist because their real counterparts were trapped in stories. There's no drive to finish those stories because "Well, I have a paper character for fun stuff."

OP Solution: please park your paper characters in the library. They are there for introspection, or for information (they can access books faster than their flesh counterparts etc).

The Magic and Tech
We're starting to have issues with this again. GMs want to know what your character is packing. They need this information to plan their stories. No more handwavium bullshit with character devices. If it runs on tech, it runs on tech. If it runs on magic, it runs on magic. If it is magitech, it is still magic. All things have limitations. Most things need to be recharged or otherwise have maintenance done on them.

Solution Part 1: develop your character's items. We can't keep track of everything for you, which is why you have a character application that lists what the item is, what it does, what affects it, and what abilities it grants. Do not "tweak" it to suit your need once your app has been approved.

Solution Part 2: this means making a new character application that better outlines the "special items". (Everyone groans). However, we have quite a few players that didn't do up a new app when we changed the format two years ago, so it's time for a purge renewal.

Solution Part 3: We have a power scale. Cer will tweak it to give a better comprehension of how physical/magical/etc correlate.

The Pantheons
As a CoOP, I hear a lot of grousing behind the scenes from players that feel their stuff should be more powerful than other player's stuff. The 40K pantheon is treated equally to the Greek pantheon, and that treated equally to the Cthulhu pantheon. ALL pantheons are equal in this regard. Gods are a dime a dozen in PL. They aren't special. They aren't unbeatable. We did this because noob players want to munchkin (playing only to "win" by having the most powerful character possible). "Red tape" prevents most pantheons from getting involved, and they are loathe to trample on someone else's territory. It's intra-pantheonic bureaucracy at its worst. It's the basis of PL's humor.

This becomes extremely important for our plot retooling. In days of old, Charumati could tell Yellow King the fuck off, and the most he could do was offer a middle finger and a few choice words. They couldn't battle, nor draw mortals into their spat. Red tape. Bureaucratic tying of hands.



Ugh
Character growth is vital. It happens when a character works on improving, or else routinely uses, an ability in the IC. However, we still have players that dislike the fact that their character is not as powerful as older characters. There's grumbling, and a sense of "my character isn't as good as that overpowered one" etc. Some players still think in terms of Classic PL: everyone out for their own gain. A few want their already-powerful characters to be more powerful because that's how they can win the day. "Who has the most valuable character, Swith?"

The PLverse is home to all sorts of wonderful characters. Some of these are timid mortals. Some are curious gods. Some are human. Some are not. A few are machine or part machine. Plenty are just trying to do the right thing, even though they might have an evil alignment, for the sake of the group.

Nobody "wins" PL. Nobody will ever have "the bestest and strongest character in the game" because, simply put, the most valuable character is not the one that we play, but the tiny NPC child looking up at the stars and praying for a miracle. Our characters are her hope, and from her lips springs the words that set us in motion. She grounds us in our premise.

Information
Players want to know things in advance so they can plan. Some players are frustrated because they "Can't get answers"; others are frustrated because a detail touched upon in 2015 is not put in use in modern day, etc.

In a weekly RP session, the GM typically has a week to plan out events. Players gather and play that block. The GM prepares for the following week. In a forum sandbox game, there is no blocked-out time. The game is 24/7. It's very difficult to plan because players set things in motion that affect other things. A lot of storytelling is done on the fly and in a pinch.

This is why Cer will add a McGuffin that, later on, just doesn't work in the setting anymore... or, worse, actually went against canon and shouldn't have been there at all. The problem arises when players insist on referring back to that McGuffin. "You said it was this and now it isn't? You keep changing things!"

We're bound to fuck up a detail. We've been playing PL for over 43,800 hours already, and it's multiplayer, and not everyone plays at the same rate, and we've had to hard reset the system a few times, and shit happens.

Solution: PL is meant to have whimsy. Spaghetti grows on trees. If you can accept that, then accept the fact that your leprechaun character can no longer smell unicorn farts from a mile away. Cut us, and your fellow players, a little more slack. Due to this game's size, character count, and basis... well, we can't be as rigid as other RP on NS.

---

Thoughts? Did I leave anything out? I won't have the proposed premise change up for review before tomorrow. The basics:

Problem: Scale.
The God War worked in the beginning because the average character was potent as fuck. They were, themselves, capable of killing gods (if not gods already). It was possible for the god characters to go up against Agents and Minions and come away a bit unscathed. PL wisely toned itself down to a reasonable sort of game, ergo the GW is just too OP to be entertaining or feasible.

Solution: We're dialing it back.

I'll give details tomorrow. We've had a lot of good input but I don't feel well enough to finish typing everything out tonight. Sorry guys. Thanks for being patient.

[Holy Lykos]

I pretty much agree with all the points Swith brought up, mostly cause we gotta discuss them over voice so it didn't take 5 hours to have a ten minute discussion

But yeah we gotta use the OOC more. I've gotten in the habit of mostly using discord for communication, its just faster and I don't get many TG's anyway. But the OOC is where we're supposed to talk the game because its where the game is housed!

[Giovenith]

*nod, nod!*

[Northwest Slobovia]

In general, I agree with the points listed. I'll post specific points later, 'cause I'm trying to get Raiders done by the expected cut-over date.

Per last night's conversation, that's gonna be a bunch of collabs. Sorry, they are the fastest way to pound out story, much faster than blitz posting, because they allow the GM to ask for changes on the fly. This is especially important where actions need to be edited because they didn't work for the scene, which I expect is coming. And, if need be, the GM can simply outline events and players can add their parts, though that's not happening for the rest of Raiders.

[Tiltjuice]

Let's brighten things up and breathe life back in!

Let's go with one of our favorite OOC memes: ask ze questions.

Tilt: What is MB's relationship with the Easter Bunny?
Prim: If your characters had to pick "normal" sounding pseudonyms, what would they call themselves?
NA: What is Sterling's favorite book?
Ched: Will Nivea consider being Nivea's mascot?
Swith: Myra has to either save a puppy or the complete works of Shakespeare from a burning Building. Which does she pick?
Cer: Does Volker ever make things out of office supplies?
Koth: Is the glass half empty or half full to Zan?
Mon: Does Kafka read the books by the author she shares a name with?

MB takes any excuse possible to pig out. He'll even dress up like an Easter Bunny.

Other than that, the Easter Bunny has no real significance to him. Kind of like the Tooth Fairy for humans. A bringer of marshmallows and chocolate.

I tried to organize all the stuff discussed in voice chat last night, as well as some things brought up in TG, email, DM, PM and all other parts known and unknown. The solutions are suggestions offered by the group (meaning not just the staff). Please read it over and weigh in. I'm apologizing in advance if I missed anyone's suggestion.

I'm pretty drained after going through so much frikken communication.

---

The Setting
It's not working.Too many cooks. Too many things that don't mesh. No really fun activities. CoOPs have to have time to run a story in order for players to visit places. Players dislike Ascalon and think it should be a Gate-accessible place.

Solution Part 1: move Bielefeld in. It's familiar. The NPCs are familiar. Veteran players can "tour guide" it for newer people. We'll have our festivals back. This is the zone for when players want relaxed, casual character development. The Burrows would move closer to the Wold, and Ascalon would go away. (Map redesign stuff)

Solution Part 2: go explore Galli when we have a solid, main plot-related reason to explore it. This was the original concept. It's meant to be an adventure.

The Posting
Players are frustrated because stories are crawling along. People are not posting. Stories die or are cut short.

Solution Part 1: Life gets in the way. Poor manners are not an excuse.

• If you can not post for a while, withdraw your character from a story.
  
• If you are simply sick or going on holiday or studying for finals - communicate with us all via the OOC and grant permission for someone in that group to run your character.
• Take initiative if others in your group are not posting.
• Do not sign up for stories just because you're bored.
Solution Part 2: PL IC posting frequency is, at minimum, twice weekly. For those that work long hours, weekends are the only time they are active. However, if people post during the week, the weekend players are able to drop short posts in on a weeknight, thus stories move.

The Stories
Player-run stories are too complex for a "side adventure". Players begin to resent missing out of things when trapped in a long-running story. Some players have complained that they're limited to reaction shots. It feels too disjointed... the stories are not contributing to the game's overarching purpose. There are too many characters in most stories. There is way too much description and side-stories within the stories.

Solution Part 1: Treat Gate stories like a TV program episode. It should fit within a short time frame and build upon the overarching premise. The purpose is "get in, accomplish objective, get out". Example:

• Giovenith and Marcus are asked to run to 7-11 for a loaf of bread; along the way, they run into an agent from another Demens' team, and he asks them to pass a message on to the Galli group. The pair return with the bread. Now the group can eat before the next mission... a mission that arises because of the agent's news.
  
• If Giovenith and Marcus first visit the Asian market for magic bean paste, and also buy a mysterious scroll, and then take the scroll to an apothecary to see if they have magical ingredients, then battle some bad guys that try to take the scroll, and then go to 7-11... the group back home has starved, and players are pissed because their mission is delayed. Plus, the OP can't work in that Demen's agent without making it seem like an afterthought.

Solution Part 2: no more than 3 characters on a team (including the GM's character) for sake of brevity. There will be times when a large group goes through a Gate, but this is reserved for special circumstances.

Solution Part 3: No more collabs as the main means of roleplaying once the new IC and OOC go up, barring a special circumstance (Zalgofests, a major time skip for the thread, etc). It takes little effort to have a conversation in-thread, provided players make an effort to have three-lines in a post. It keeps the thread in motion. Players are allowed to post more often if they're having conversations.

Solution Part 4: The "novel-writing" is what keeps many people from posting more than once every few weeks. They do NOT have time to digest massive posts, nor formulate an appropriately lengthy reply. They end up giving reaction shots and then lose track of the objective. If an element isn't crucial to the story, skip it. Nobody cares if John the NPC is using a sterling silver spoon fashioned by alien slugs' acidic bubblegum... especially if the spoon is not a focal point and only just a prop to make John look busy.

Solution Part 5: We go back to "Run it by the OP first". Cer determines if something will work. Also, as in the 'bread example' above, he might insert an NPC into that story to further the overarching plot.

If there's one thing players always seem to miss, it's the OP treats. He tucks them in, and people don't act upon them... they get too busy with their own stuff.

Here's how it works: (Absurd Level example)
1. Beckett is building a Plot Device. He needs a McGuffin. The character doesn't go on missions due to physical limitations.
2. Venla's world has a McGuffin. Lucky, that! Cer asks NA to run the story.
3. NA takes two characters through a Gate to acquire the McGuffin.
4. On their way back to the Gate, someone shoves a Doorstop Baby into Venla's arms.
5. The team returns. The McGuffin goes into the Plot Device. The Baby goes to Volker.
6. A week later, Volker asks Minerva to lead a team through a Gate to get the Doorstop Baby back to his proper Time and Dimension. It's ancient Egypt, and he belongs in a basket on the Nile.
7. On the way back to the Gate, a slave offers the team an old scroll in trade for a bite to eat.
8. The team returns, and the scroll goes to Sandy. Oooh magic potion that turns someone invisible? Sounds like an adventure to get ingredients...

Communication Methods
Nobody has the time to check TG, then check the OSF PMs, then check the Discord PLanning thread, then check the Discord DMs, and then check email just to answer some question or approve a plan. It is getting too confusing. Players have complained because messages are being dropped between them, or go unanswered. Enough.

Solution: ALL PL communication will be done via the OOC. Yes, we can use the PLanning channel, but a copy should be placed here in order for us to refer back to it as a group. You can still use TG if you need to discuss something you don't want made public.

The "Papers"
This was not brought up in voice chat, but Cer's been extremely vocal behind the scenes. The paper characters exist because their real counterparts were trapped in stories. There's no drive to finish those stories because "Well, I have a paper character for fun stuff."

OP Solution: please park your paper characters in the library. They are there for introspection, or for information (they can access books faster than their flesh counterparts etc).

The Magic and Tech
We're starting to have issues with this again. GMs want to know what your character is packing. They need this information to plan their stories. No more handwavium bullshit with character devices. If it runs on tech, it runs on tech. If it runs on magic, it runs on magic. If it is magitech, it is still magic. All things have limitations. Most things need to be recharged or otherwise have maintenance done on them.

Solution Part 1: develop your character's items. We can't keep track of everything for you, which is why you have a character application that lists what the item is, what it does, what affects it, and what abilities it grants. Do not "tweak" it to suit your need once your app has been approved.

Solution Part 2: this means making a new character application that better outlines the "special items". (Everyone groans). However, we have quite a few players that didn't do up a new app when we changed the format two years ago, so it's time for a purge renewal.

Solution Part 3: We have a power scale. Cer will tweak it to give a better comprehension of how physical/magical/etc correlate.

The Pantheons
As a CoOP, I hear a lot of grousing behind the scenes from players that feel their stuff should be more powerful than other player's stuff. The 40K pantheon is treated equally to the Greek pantheon, and that treated equally to the Cthulhu pantheon. ALL pantheons are equal in this regard. Gods are a dime a dozen in PL. They aren't special. They aren't unbeatable. We did this because noob players want to munchkin (playing only to "win" by having the most powerful character possible). "Red tape" prevents most pantheons from getting involved, and they are loathe to trample on someone else's territory. It's intra-pantheonic bureaucracy at its worst. It's the basis of PL's humor.

This becomes extremely important for our plot retooling. In days of old, Charumati could tell Yellow King the fuck off, and the most he could do was offer a middle finger and a few choice words. They couldn't battle, nor draw mortals into their spat. Red tape. Bureaucratic tying of hands.



Ugh
Character growth is vital. It happens when a character works on improving, or else routinely uses, an ability in the IC. However, we still have players that dislike the fact that their character is not as powerful as older characters. There's grumbling, and a sense of "my character isn't as good as that overpowered one" etc. Some players still think in terms of Classic PL: everyone out for their own gain. A few want their already-powerful characters to be more powerful because that's how they can win the day. "Who has the most valuable character, Swith?"

The PLverse is home to all sorts of wonderful characters. Some of these are timid mortals. Some are curious gods. Some are human. Some are not. A few are machine or part machine. Plenty are just trying to do the right thing, even though they might have an evil alignment, for the sake of the group.

Nobody "wins" PL. Nobody will ever have "the bestest and strongest character in the game" because, simply put, the most valuable character is not the one that we play, but the tiny NPC child looking up at the stars and praying for a miracle. Our characters are her hope, and from her lips springs the words that set us in motion. She grounds us in our premise.

Information
Players want to know things in advance so they can plan. Some players are frustrated because they "Can't get answers"; others are frustrated because a detail touched upon in 2015 is not put in use in modern day, etc.

In a weekly RP session, the GM typically has a week to plan out events. Players gather and play that block. The GM prepares for the following week. In a forum sandbox game, there is no blocked-out time. The game is 24/7. It's very difficult to plan because players set things in motion that affect other things. A lot of storytelling is done on the fly and in a pinch.

This is why Cer will add a McGuffin that, later on, just doesn't work in the setting anymore... or, worse, actually went against canon and shouldn't have been there at all. The problem arises when players insist on referring back to that McGuffin. "You said it was this and now it isn't? You keep changing things!"

We're bound to fuck up a detail. We've been playing PL for over 43,800 hours already, and it's multiplayer, and not everyone plays at the same rate, and we've had to hard reset the system a few times, and shit happens.

Solution: PL is meant to have whimsy. Spaghetti grows on trees. If you can accept that, then accept the fact that your leprechaun character can no longer smell unicorn farts from a mile away. Cut us, and your fellow players, a little more slack. Due to this game's size, character count, and basis... well, we can't be as rigid as other RP on NS.

---

Thoughts? Did I leave anything out? I won't have the proposed premise change up for review before tomorrow. The basics:

Problem: Scale.
The God War worked in the beginning because the average character was potent as fuck. They were, themselves, capable of killing gods (if not gods already). It was possible for the god characters to go up against Agents and Minions and come away a bit unscathed. PL wisely toned itself down to a reasonable sort of game, ergo the GW is just too OP to be entertaining or feasible.

Solution: We're dialing it back.

I'll give details tomorrow. We've had a lot of good input but I don't feel well enough to finish typing everything out tonight. Sorry guys. Thanks for being patient.

*pies the fennec*

No issues with the setting solutions. Always been in favor of bringing back Bielefeld. I didn't mind Ascalon as much as people apparently do, but didn't have much of a connection to it either other than through Calani, which was a stretch up until I redefined her.

/supports exploring Galli ^_^

Posting solutions. Pmuch common sense.

Stories solutions. I think also we cited Klingon Booze Run as a good example *nodnods* and the character limit will help. Lemme know if any help needed with new threads. Novel-writing...I'm trying to get into that a bit with ATHENA. Short, punchy go go. With that kind of a game, though, I feel like establishing the environment is more important than in a game like PL.

OP treats! ♥

Communication solution. Don't have any problem with this.

Paper chars. I didn't know about that. It's a shame that they're being used as an excuse.

Magic and Tech. (thumbsup) Will help for hawflakes.

Pantheons. Don't hear about any of it. Come on, whoever you are. Stop harshing the laughs.

Ugh. *stuffs fennec full of moar pie*

Information. I fail to understand the lack of flexibility here. What am I missing?