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1870 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][REBOOT]

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Sanabel
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29581
Founded: Nov 10, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Sanabel » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:03 pm

Seinlo wrote:
Sanabel wrote:That's bogus diplomacy, so I hope you're not serious, though I doubt India or Yemen are big trading partners with Ruthenia anyway.


Do you have any presence in the Indian Ocean, even a minor one? We have trading fleets that work outside of the Indian Ocean, but it isn't as major as our operations there.

I want trade with all the peoples :(

We have a presence in the Mediterranean, but that's about as far south as things go.
Proud Flat-Earther and anti-vaccine activist.
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If you don't have a high enough IQ to know what those are, then we can't be friends.

Currently Reading: More Than A Woman by the Bee Gees

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Seinlo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 919
Founded: Oct 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Seinlo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:04 pm

Sanabel wrote:
Seinlo wrote:
Do you have any presence in the Indian Ocean, even a minor one? We have trading fleets that work outside of the Indian Ocean, but it isn't as major as our operations there.

I want trade with all the peoples :(

We have a presence in the Mediterranean, but that's about as far south as things go.


Oh. So, goods that are traded through us probably reach you. Doesn't mean I have any influence over them, or that they are in large amounts, though.
Depression kind of goes along with not being liked, especially when you ask for help, and don't get it. Remember that, okay? There are people who need someone, even if in a small way. Don't avoid them because of a misunderstanding, them having a bad day, and definitely not because everyone else does it. Even if it's just a fifteen minute conversation about nothing, it might help.

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Intermountain States
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1781
Founded: Oct 12, 2014
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Intermountain States » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:05 pm

Berserkers weren't really a thing as some elite crazed fighters. They're more like medieval champions or gladiators in Scandinavia used by lords to settle legal issues with duels.
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Sanabel
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29581
Founded: Nov 10, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Sanabel » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:05 pm

Seinlo wrote:
Sanabel wrote:We have a presence in the Mediterranean, but that's about as far south as things go.


Oh. So, goods that are traded through us probably reach you. Doesn't mean I have any influence over them, or that they are in large amounts, though.

I cant think of any Omani goods that would be consumed in large amounts anyway. More likely you'd buy our heavy industrial goods like steel and locomotive parts.
Last edited by Sanabel on Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proud Flat-Earther and anti-vaccine activist.
----------
I am a Radical Centro-Transhumanist and a National Globalist.
If you don't have a high enough IQ to know what those are, then we can't be friends.

Currently Reading: More Than A Woman by the Bee Gees

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Seinlo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 919
Founded: Oct 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Seinlo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:10 pm

Sanabel wrote:
Seinlo wrote:
Oh. So, goods that are traded through us probably reach you. Doesn't mean I have any influence over them, or that they are in large amounts, though.

I cant think of any Omani goods that would be consumed in large amounts anyway. More likely you'd buy our heavy industrial goods like steel and locomotive parts.


Yemen* Oman is controlled by Yemen. We have lots of goods... oh, large amounts. Yeah. We do need a major supplier of locomotive parts because of our railways. Is it conceivable that we contracted you to build our railways, and that you may have a construction firm operating in my nation? I think that we have steel, though.
Depression kind of goes along with not being liked, especially when you ask for help, and don't get it. Remember that, okay? There are people who need someone, even if in a small way. Don't avoid them because of a misunderstanding, them having a bad day, and definitely not because everyone else does it. Even if it's just a fifteen minute conversation about nothing, it might help.

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Danceria
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9977
Founded: Aug 13, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Danceria » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:12 pm

Novacom wrote:
Danceria wrote:Oh.

Well...there goes my glorious vision of the 17th century being nothing but Beserkers vs Azteks to the soundtrack of epic pirate music, turning the Caribbean Sea and the Gulf of Mexico red with each others blood.

Needless to say, you're still pagan, and worse still, a powerful pagan who no doubt still sacrifices good Christians to their vile gods in secret.

Who needs the canal when you have the Suez, Argentina, and influence in the Cape of Good Hope?


These Azteks are much more subtle than that, your Berserkers would be dead before they even knew they were under attack while I was already onto the next objective, as for foreign policy I have a clear set of allies and objectives, and very much confident in my own abilities and the excellent defense the distance equation of the Atlantic offers...

Suez? you mean the canal operated by one of my good and close allies? I do wonder indeed :P

*Grinds teeth in Scandinavian frustration*

In all seriousness, I thought my folks puttered around the New World being explorers an' sheeit, then you came along with your mass produced human sacrifices.

Then we spent the age of piracy *Orthodox Equivalent of "For the Glory of Odin"/Deus Vult!*-ing and *Aztek version of Deus Vult*-ing at each other, turning the sea a slight shade of red, until now we just glare at each other, do occasional espionage, and mutter and wring our hands at each other.
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Sanabel
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29581
Founded: Nov 10, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Sanabel » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:12 pm

Seinlo wrote:
Sanabel wrote:I cant think of any Omani goods that would be consumed in large amounts anyway. More likely you'd buy our heavy industrial goods like steel and locomotive parts.


Yemen* Oman is controlled by Yemen. We have lots of goods... oh, large amounts. Yeah. We do need a major supplier of locomotive parts because of our railways. Is it conceivable that we contracted you to build our railways, and that you may have a construction firm operating in my nation? I think that we have steel, though.

What kind of goods?

Yeah, you could've contracted us to build your railways. It's unlikely you are a steel producer, you don't have the proper climate, resources, or topography to produce steel in 1870.
Proud Flat-Earther and anti-vaccine activist.
----------
I am a Radical Centro-Transhumanist and a National Globalist.
If you don't have a high enough IQ to know what those are, then we can't be friends.

Currently Reading: More Than A Woman by the Bee Gees

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Seinlo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 919
Founded: Oct 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Seinlo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:13 pm

I have lots of mineral wealth. Just... not lots of coal. Okay, so, yeah, we'll be purchasing steal from you.

I'm glad with all of these minerals, though, especially gold. I need to figure out what I want my currency to be like, though. Perhaps a multi-currency system where gold and silver are minted, silver less valuable, with a backed fiat currency that is less valuable, to avoid that one thing that makes a more valuable currency marked with the same number as a less valuable currency inevitably disappear (forgot the name).
Depression kind of goes along with not being liked, especially when you ask for help, and don't get it. Remember that, okay? There are people who need someone, even if in a small way. Don't avoid them because of a misunderstanding, them having a bad day, and definitely not because everyone else does it. Even if it's just a fifteen minute conversation about nothing, it might help.

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Elerian
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10844
Founded: Aug 31, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Elerian » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:15 pm

Sanabel wrote:That's bogus diplomacy, so I hope you're not serious, though I doubt India or Yemen are big trading partners with Ruthenia anyway.


We Kebabs do love our parties after all ;)
Last edited by Elerian on Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sanabel
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29581
Founded: Nov 10, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Sanabel » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:16 pm

Seinlo wrote:I have lots of mineral wealth. Just... not lots of coal. Okay, so, yeah, we'll be purchasing steal from you.

I'm glad with all of these minerals, though, especially gold. I need to figure out what I want my currency to be like, though. Perhaps a multi-currency system where gold and silver are minted, silver less valuable, with a backed fiat currency that is less valuable, to avoid that one thing that makes a more valuable currency marked with the same number as a less valuable currency inevitably disappear (forgot the name).


History has shown that using multiple currencies just creates problems in the long term.

I myself plan on having political strife over the use of gold vs bimetallism vs paper.
Elerian wrote:
Sanabel wrote:That's bogus diplomacy, so I hope you're not serious, though I doubt India or Yemen are big trading partners with Ruthenia anyway.


We Kebabs do love our parties after all ;)

But this one is for Latin peoples, sorry.
Proud Flat-Earther and anti-vaccine activist.
----------
I am a Radical Centro-Transhumanist and a National Globalist.
If you don't have a high enough IQ to know what those are, then we can't be friends.

Currently Reading: More Than A Woman by the Bee Gees

User avatar
Novacom
Minister
 
Posts: 2048
Founded: Feb 24, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Novacom » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:17 pm

Danceria wrote:
Novacom wrote:
These Azteks are much more subtle than that, your Berserkers would be dead before they even knew they were under attack while I was already onto the next objective, as for foreign policy I have a clear set of allies and objectives, and very much confident in my own abilities and the excellent defense the distance equation of the Atlantic offers...

Suez? you mean the canal operated by one of my good and close allies? I do wonder indeed :P

*Grinds teeth in Scandinavian frustration*

In all seriousness, I thought my folks puttered around the New World being explorers an' sheeit, then you came along with your mass produced human sacrifices.

Then we spent the age of piracy *Orthodox Equivalent of "For the Glory of Odin"/Deus Vult!*-ing and *Aztek version of Deus Vult*-ing at each other, turning the sea a slight shade of red, until now we just glare at each other, do occasional espionage, and mutter and wring our hands at each other.


Now I could have allowed you to persist with that delusion but I thought I'm a nice guy and all, but no, the Aztek's are a leading power in the Americas (with good relations with several other great powers) with a very healthy economy actively working on the Panama Canal with a fairly healthy military with a reformed "religion" which is gradually fading away as was always intended especially with the whole Socialist/Syndicalist school of thought that holds sway.

User avatar
Seinlo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 919
Founded: Oct 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Seinlo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:17 pm

Sanabel wrote:
Seinlo wrote:
Yemen* Oman is controlled by Yemen. We have lots of goods... oh, large amounts. Yeah. We do need a major supplier of locomotive parts because of our railways. Is it conceivable that we contracted you to build our railways, and that you may have a construction firm operating in my nation? I think that we have steel, though.

What kind of goods?

Yeah, you could've contracted us to build your railways. It's unlikely you are a steel producer, you don't have the proper climate, resources, or topography to produce steel in 1870.


We manufacture high-quality military equipment (including small weapons, field artillery (which includes mortars), rocket artillery, shell guns, and lots of other things), produce a food surplus that allows export for our agricultural products, textile products that we are proud of, mineral products (gold, salt, clay, marble, iron, tin, aluminum, et cetera), and some other stuff.

When we discover oil, we will have very large amounts, though it will take time to discover oil everywhere in the Empire.
Depression kind of goes along with not being liked, especially when you ask for help, and don't get it. Remember that, okay? There are people who need someone, even if in a small way. Don't avoid them because of a misunderstanding, them having a bad day, and definitely not because everyone else does it. Even if it's just a fifteen minute conversation about nothing, it might help.

User avatar
Elerian
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10844
Founded: Aug 31, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Elerian » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:18 pm

Novacom wrote:
Danceria wrote:*Grinds teeth in Scandinavian frustration*

In all seriousness, I thought my folks puttered around the New World being explorers an' sheeit, then you came along with your mass produced human sacrifices.

Then we spent the age of piracy *Orthodox Equivalent of "For the Glory of Odin"/Deus Vult!*-ing and *Aztek version of Deus Vult*-ing at each other, turning the sea a slight shade of red, until now we just glare at each other, do occasional espionage, and mutter and wring our hands at each other.


Now I could have allowed you to persist with that delusion but I thought I'm a nice guy and all, but no, the Aztek's are a leading power in the Americas (with good relations with several other great powers) with a very healthy economy actively working on the Panama Canal with a fairly healthy military with a reformed "religion" which is gradually fading away as was always intended especially with the whole Socialist/Syndicalist school of thought that holds sway.


It seems like everyone is starting to have their nations heading towards socialism or communism now.

User avatar
Seinlo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 919
Founded: Oct 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Seinlo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:19 pm

Sanabel wrote:
Seinlo wrote:I have lots of mineral wealth. Just... not lots of coal. Okay, so, yeah, we'll be purchasing steal from you.

I'm glad with all of these minerals, though, especially gold. I need to figure out what I want my currency to be like, though. Perhaps a multi-currency system where gold and silver are minted, silver less valuable, with a backed fiat currency that is less valuable, to avoid that one thing that makes a more valuable currency marked with the same number as a less valuable currency inevitably disappear (forgot the name).


History has shown that using multiple currencies just creates problems in the long term.

I myself plan on having political strife over the use of gold vs bimetallism vs paper.
Elerian wrote:
We Kebabs do love our parties after all ;)

But this one is for Latin peoples, sorry.


Oh. What do you suggest for a highly developed economy, then? Perhaps gold is accepted as currency, but has more of a place as a trade currency or an investment, while backed fiat currency is the currency used by the nation?
Depression kind of goes along with not being liked, especially when you ask for help, and don't get it. Remember that, okay? There are people who need someone, even if in a small way. Don't avoid them because of a misunderstanding, them having a bad day, and definitely not because everyone else does it. Even if it's just a fifteen minute conversation about nothing, it might help.

User avatar
Seinlo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 919
Founded: Oct 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Seinlo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:19 pm

Elerian wrote:
Novacom wrote:
Now I could have allowed you to persist with that delusion but I thought I'm a nice guy and all, but no, the Aztek's are a leading power in the Americas (with good relations with several other great powers) with a very healthy economy actively working on the Panama Canal with a fairly healthy military with a reformed "religion" which is gradually fading away as was always intended especially with the whole Socialist/Syndicalist school of thought that holds sway.


It seems like everyone is starting to have their nations heading towards socialism or communism now.


Islam supports capitalism in Cold War confirmed; is major driving force.
Depression kind of goes along with not being liked, especially when you ask for help, and don't get it. Remember that, okay? There are people who need someone, even if in a small way. Don't avoid them because of a misunderstanding, them having a bad day, and definitely not because everyone else does it. Even if it's just a fifteen minute conversation about nothing, it might help.

User avatar
Novacom
Minister
 
Posts: 2048
Founded: Feb 24, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Novacom » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:20 pm

Elerian wrote:
Novacom wrote:
Now I could have allowed you to persist with that delusion but I thought I'm a nice guy and all, but no, the Aztek's are a leading power in the Americas (with good relations with several other great powers) with a very healthy economy actively working on the Panama Canal with a fairly healthy military with a reformed "religion" which is gradually fading away as was always intended especially with the whole Socialist/Syndicalist school of thought that holds sway.


It seems like everyone is starting to have their nations heading towards socialism or communism now.


Do remember I was Syndicalist in the old thread too...

User avatar
Sanabel
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29581
Founded: Nov 10, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Sanabel » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:21 pm

Elerian wrote:
Novacom wrote:
Now I could have allowed you to persist with that delusion but I thought I'm a nice guy and all, but no, the Aztek's are a leading power in the Americas (with good relations with several other great powers) with a very healthy economy actively working on the Panama Canal with a fairly healthy military with a reformed "religion" which is gradually fading away as was always intended especially with the whole Socialist/Syndicalist school of thought that holds sway.


It seems like everyone is starting to have their nations heading towards socialism or communism now.

Ruthenia will never go red!
Seinlo wrote:
Sanabel wrote:
History has shown that using multiple currencies just creates problems in the long term.

I myself plan on having political strife over the use of gold vs bimetallism vs paper.

But this one is for Latin peoples, sorry.


Oh. What do you suggest for a highly developed economy, then? Perhaps gold is accepted as currency, but has more of a place as a trade currency or an investment, while backed fiat currency is the currency used by the nation?

That's sort of what Cuba does today. It's a mess.

Really, the kind of currency you use has tradeoffs. Gold benefits the rich, and stops inflation, bimetallism and paper allow for more money to be in circulation but at a lower value.
Proud Flat-Earther and anti-vaccine activist.
----------
I am a Radical Centro-Transhumanist and a National Globalist.
If you don't have a high enough IQ to know what those are, then we can't be friends.

Currently Reading: More Than A Woman by the Bee Gees

User avatar
Intermountain States
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1781
Founded: Oct 12, 2014
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Intermountain States » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:23 pm

Elerian wrote:
Novacom wrote:
Now I could have allowed you to persist with that delusion but I thought I'm a nice guy and all, but no, the Aztek's are a leading power in the Americas (with good relations with several other great powers) with a very healthy economy actively working on the Panama Canal with a fairly healthy military with a reformed "religion" which is gradually fading away as was always intended especially with the whole Socialist/Syndicalist school of thought that holds sway.

It seems like everyone is starting to have their nations heading towards socialism or communism now.

Columbia is better dead than red.
Last edited by Intermountain States on Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar
Seinlo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 919
Founded: Oct 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Seinlo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:26 pm

Sanabel wrote:
Elerian wrote:
It seems like everyone is starting to have their nations heading towards socialism or communism now.

Ruthenia will never go red!
Seinlo wrote:
Oh. What do you suggest for a highly developed economy, then? Perhaps gold is accepted as currency, but has more of a place as a trade currency or an investment, while backed fiat currency is the currency used by the nation?

That's sort of what Cuba does today. It's a mess.

Really, the kind of currency you use has tradeoffs. Gold benefits the rich, and stops inflation, bimetallism and paper allow for more money to be in circulation but at a lower value.


Oh, okay. I think I might go with gold, then, but I wanted something that allowed for a reasonable and decent trade and normal currency. *Sighs.* Is this a good choice? I dunno :/
Depression kind of goes along with not being liked, especially when you ask for help, and don't get it. Remember that, okay? There are people who need someone, even if in a small way. Don't avoid them because of a misunderstanding, them having a bad day, and definitely not because everyone else does it. Even if it's just a fifteen minute conversation about nothing, it might help.

User avatar
Seinlo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 919
Founded: Oct 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Seinlo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:28 pm

I just realized that Madagascar has coal. I'm not sure if it's enough for my uses, though, so I'll still be importing steal. Even if it was, I would still import steel, because more trade is good.
Depression kind of goes along with not being liked, especially when you ask for help, and don't get it. Remember that, okay? There are people who need someone, even if in a small way. Don't avoid them because of a misunderstanding, them having a bad day, and definitely not because everyone else does it. Even if it's just a fifteen minute conversation about nothing, it might help.

User avatar
Sanabel
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29581
Founded: Nov 10, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Sanabel » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:33 pm

Seinlo wrote:
Sanabel wrote:Ruthenia will never go red!

That's sort of what Cuba does today. It's a mess.

Really, the kind of currency you use has tradeoffs. Gold benefits the rich, and stops inflation, bimetallism and paper allow for more money to be in circulation but at a lower value.


Oh, okay. I think I might go with gold, then, but I wanted something that allowed for a reasonable and decent trade and normal currency. *Sighs.* Is this a good choice? I dunno :/

In the 1870s, gold would be a fine choice.
Seinlo wrote:I just realized that Madagascar has coal. I'm not sure if it's enough for my uses, though, so I'll still be importing steal. Even if it was, I would still import steel, because more trade is good.

Coal wasn't mined there till the mid 20th century for a reason.
Proud Flat-Earther and anti-vaccine activist.
----------
I am a Radical Centro-Transhumanist and a National Globalist.
If you don't have a high enough IQ to know what those are, then we can't be friends.

Currently Reading: More Than A Woman by the Bee Gees

User avatar
Seinlo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 919
Founded: Oct 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Seinlo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:43 pm

Sanabel wrote:
Seinlo wrote:
Oh, okay. I think I might go with gold, then, but I wanted something that allowed for a reasonable and decent trade and normal currency. *Sighs.* Is this a good choice? I dunno :/

In the 1870s, gold would be a fine choice.
Seinlo wrote:I just realized that Madagascar has coal. I'm not sure if it's enough for my uses, though, so I'll still be importing steal. Even if it was, I would still import steel, because more trade is good.

Coal wasn't mined there till the mid 20th century for a reason.


Yeah, and I don't think I have enough of Tanzania to get ample coal from there.

Thanks for the help. I wonder if I'll ever move away from gold as a currency.

I need a European or Oriental power to help me industrialize, which means making contracts for regularly scheduled shipments of various industrial materials and minerals. Who to pick. Hmm.
Depression kind of goes along with not being liked, especially when you ask for help, and don't get it. Remember that, okay? There are people who need someone, even if in a small way. Don't avoid them because of a misunderstanding, them having a bad day, and definitely not because everyone else does it. Even if it's just a fifteen minute conversation about nothing, it might help.

User avatar
Sanabel
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29581
Founded: Nov 10, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Sanabel » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:45 pm

Seinlo wrote:
Sanabel wrote:In the 1870s, gold would be a fine choice.

Coal wasn't mined there till the mid 20th century for a reason.


Yeah, and I don't think I have enough of Tanzania to get ample coal from there.

Thanks for the help. I wonder if I'll ever move away from gold as a currency.

I need a European or Oriental power to help me industrialize, which means making contracts for regularly scheduled shipments of various industrial materials and minerals. Who to pick. Hmm.

Your climate and topography is really really bad for industrialization. Textiles, crafts, resource processing, etc would probably be your best bet, but becoming a manufacturer of heavy industrial goods is unlikely.
Proud Flat-Earther and anti-vaccine activist.
----------
I am a Radical Centro-Transhumanist and a National Globalist.
If you don't have a high enough IQ to know what those are, then we can't be friends.

Currently Reading: More Than A Woman by the Bee Gees

User avatar
Seinlo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 919
Founded: Oct 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Seinlo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:48 pm

Sanabel wrote:
Seinlo wrote:
Yeah, and I don't think I have enough of Tanzania to get ample coal from there.

Thanks for the help. I wonder if I'll ever move away from gold as a currency.

I need a European or Oriental power to help me industrialize, which means making contracts for regularly scheduled shipments of various industrial materials and minerals. Who to pick. Hmm.

Your climate and topography is really really bad for industrialization. Textiles, crafts, resource processing, etc would probably be your best bet, but becoming a manufacturer of heavy industrial goods is unlikely.


You're probably, right, but I wanted industrial machinery for things like textiles, crafts, and resource processing. I mean, I suppose I have those already, since I could just purchase them. *Shrugs.* I also have nice cities, already, and don't need to ruin them with smoke-puffing factories. I suppose it's best to stay my on my current route for those things, instead of trying to industrialize.
Depression kind of goes along with not being liked, especially when you ask for help, and don't get it. Remember that, okay? There are people who need someone, even if in a small way. Don't avoid them because of a misunderstanding, them having a bad day, and definitely not because everyone else does it. Even if it's just a fifteen minute conversation about nothing, it might help.

User avatar
Rygondria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5973
Founded: Nov 12, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rygondria » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:55 pm

What would a good population be for this Netherlands,Northern Belgium, Mozambique, Singapore, and the Malay Penninusla
Last edited by Rygondria on Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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