1870 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][REBOOT]

[Seinlo]

Ryvern, will you have a navy, or will you be land-locked? Where are you going to be in South America?

[Saint Ryvern]

If all works out, my nation will be riding on other nation's coattails in some areas. Of course, some tech landing in my nation 50+ years ago isn't going to be considered that, though. Plus, we will have done some innovating, too... hopefully... I really hope to do some innovating of our own tech or modifying/building up on tech that landed on our nation. If I don't have that basic ability, then my nation is clearly run by idiots.

Oh the people in my nation aren't idiots. They just don't have the resources to build factories and run them. Agriculturally they're masterminds. I mean look at what the Inca did in real life, which the Tiwanaku people will have done at some point in-character too. Plus the Tiwanaku invented a farming method that was 150% as productive as modern (that's 2016, not 1870) agricultural techniques.

Ryvern, will you have a navy, or will you be land-locked? Where are you going to be in South America?

I will have a navy. My core claim is Peru, the western half of Bolivia, and the northern part of Chile, so I will control quite a fair amount of the coast. The majority of my navy will be dedicated to the protection of trade shipments, however. With practically no offensive capabilities, directly, at least.

[Togeria]

What I miss?

[Seinlo]

If all works out, my nation will be riding on other nation's coattails in some areas. Of course, some tech landing in my nation 50+ years ago isn't going to be considered that, though. Plus, we will have done some innovating, too... hopefully... I really hope to do some innovating of our own tech or modifying/building up on tech that landed on our nation. If I don't have that basic ability, then my nation is clearly run by idiots.

Oh the people in my nation aren't idiots. They just don't have the resources to build factories and run them. Agriculturally they're masterminds. I mean look at what the Inca did in real life, which the Tiwanaku people will have done at some point in-character too. Plus the Tiwanaku invented a farming method that was 150% as productive as modern (that's 2016, not 1870) agricultural techniques.

Ryvern, will you have a navy, or will you be land-locked? Where are you going to be in South America?

I will have a navy. My core claim is Peru, the western half of Bolivia, and the northern part of Chile, so I will control quite a fair amount of the coast. The majority of my navy will be dedicated to the protection of trade shipments, however. With practically no offensive capabilities, directly, at least.

:3 I see travel to Tiwanaku in my future. I mean, you know, to get this farming method. Would I know about it? Crap. Stupid technicalities.

I never said your nation had idiots for people. I mean, there will be some, but I never said you would have idiots? Did I?

For your navy, will you have the ability to intercept enemy vessels that are incoming, or near your waters, or will you be unable to do that because your navy is busy protecting trade shipments? (I'm assuming that you would know about the enemy vessels in this question.)

[Seinlo]

What I miss?

THE RISE OF TIWANAKU!

[Togeria]

What I miss?

THE RISE OF TIWANAKU!

[Seinlo]

THE RISE OF TIWANAKU!

Do you not know the majestic tale of Tiwanaku?

[Novacom]

Oh the people in my nation aren't idiots. They just don't have the resources to build factories and run them. Agriculturally they're masterminds. I mean look at what the Inca did in real life, which the Tiwanaku people will have done at some point in-character too. Plus the Tiwanaku invented a farming method that was 150% as productive as modern (that's 2016, not 1870) agricultural techniques.

I will have a navy. My core claim is Peru, the western half of Bolivia, and the northern part of Chile, so I will control quite a fair amount of the coast. The majority of my navy will be dedicated to the protection of trade shipments, however. With practically no offensive capabilities, directly, at least.

:3 I see travel to Tiwanaku in my future. I mean, you know, to get this farming method. Would I know about it? Crap. Stupid technicalities.

I never said your nation had idiots for people. I mean, there will be some, but I never said you would have idiots? Did I?

For your navy, will you have the ability to intercept enemy vessels that are incoming, or near your waters, or will you be unable to do that because your navy is busy protecting trade shipments? (I'm assuming that you would know about the enemy vessels in this question.)

You do know that these sorts of techniques don't work well being transferred to different climates that and logically speaking why would he give away an advantage like that?

[Saint Ryvern]

Oh the people in my nation aren't idiots. They just don't have the resources to build factories and run them. Agriculturally they're masterminds. I mean look at what the Inca did in real life, which the Tiwanaku people will have done at some point in-character too. Plus the Tiwanaku invented a farming method that was 150% as productive as modern (that's 2016, not 1870) agricultural techniques.

I will have a navy. My core claim is Peru, the western half of Bolivia, and the northern part of Chile, so I will control quite a fair amount of the coast. The majority of my navy will be dedicated to the protection of trade shipments, however. With practically no offensive capabilities, directly, at least.

:3 I see travel to Tiwanaku in my future. I mean, you know, to get this farming method. Would I know about it? Crap. Stupid technicalities.

I never said your nation had idiots for people. I mean, there will be some, but I never said you would have idiots? Did I?

For your navy, will you have the ability to intercept enemy vessels that are incoming, or near your waters, or will you be unable to do that because your navy is busy protecting trade shipments? (I'm assuming that you would know about the enemy vessels in this question.)

I'm sorry for not clipping this, I'm on mobile. The navy would be limited in interception abilities. Instead, there would be a large amount of fortresses along the coast equipped to destroy incoming vessels. Which is a weakness (to someone that's an OP that's a question) because it limits my defensive reach.

[Saint Ryvern]

:3 I see travel to Tiwanaku in my future. I mean, you know, to get this farming method. Would I know about it? Crap. Stupid technicalities.

I never said your nation had idiots for people. I mean, there will be some, but I never said you would have idiots? Did I?

For your navy, will you have the ability to intercept enemy vessels that are incoming, or near your waters, or will you be unable to do that because your navy is busy protecting trade shipments? (I'm assuming that you would know about the enemy vessels in this question.)

You do know that these sorts of techniques don't work well being transferred to different climates that and logically speaking why would he give away an advantage like that?

The technique is known as "flooded raised fields." So ^he is correct, Seinlo, it wouldn't work very well in the desert.

[Seinlo]

You do know that these sorts of techniques don't work well being transferred to different climates that and logically speaking why would he give away an advantage like that?

The technique is known as "flooded raised fields." So ^he is correct, Seinlo, it wouldn't work very well in the desert.

;-; Aw. What about in Africa, or super lush Madagascar?

Also, who said anything about giving it away? :3 I has gold. I mean, they have gold, too, but I'm sure I can still buy things. Technology exchange is our thing.

[Seinlo]

My desert isn't going to be the only place where things happen, you know. Actually, less things will probably happen in the desert. I just hope I don't overextend myself like Spain or Portugal did IRL, because then I would lose my valuable territories, and be stuck with a worthless pile of land that in this case would be sand.

[Novacom]

You do know that these sorts of techniques don't work well being transferred to different climates that and logically speaking why would he give away an advantage like that?

The technique is known as "flooded raised fields." So ^he is correct, Seinlo, it wouldn't work very well in the desert.

Interesting, just had a look between that and chinampas I think it's safe to say our neck of the world would be the true agricultural powerhouse

[Western Imperial Union]

Full Nation Name : Hunnic Empire
Majority/Official Culture :Huns,
Territorial Core : The brown area of europe marked on the map
Territorial Claim : Austria, the Balkans, Ukraine, Poland
Capital City : Belgrade
Population :16,320,000

Government Type : Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : Expansionist
Government Focus : Military
Head of State : King Ursus
Head of Government : King Ursus
Government Description : Absolute Monarchy, however successors are chosen by a vote from the 7 great chieftains when no successor is officially picked. The Country is divided up by Tribal Duchies.There are 8 Tribal Duchies one is ruled by the King directly and the other 7 Great Chieftains. Each Duchy is further divided into Clan Provinces, these range from 4 per Duchy to 8. Each Clan Province is administrated by a Clan made up of some of the oldest and most prominent families in the Province including that of Magistrate. When a Magistrate or Great Chief dies they are succeeded by their next of kin unless the gather administration. (The Leader of each House in the Clan for a Province and each Magistrate of the Clans in a Duchy for the Great Chieftain.) The King usually appoints a Great chief from the Magistrates or from the extended family of the deceased and the appointment is either accepted or denied by the gathered Magistrates. Below the Clan Province level of Administration is the District. Most Districts are run by the ancient Houses that have run them for generations. However some districts are administrated by a council of elected ministers. These tend to be small rural and back water districts however.

Majority/State Religion : Orthodox
Religious Description : Hunnic Orthodoxy is tied, albeit loosely to the Orthodox Church of Constantinople. While not officially independent it is truly independent in all but official status. The leader of the Hunnic Orthodox Church is based out of Belgrade and the church primarily maintains latin as the language of the church. With most middle and upper class Huns knowing latin as a second language the Orthodox Church holds Hunnic Services after the Latin ones in most regions and a sizeable amount of Bibles and Religious papers are published in Hunnic. The transition into full orthodoxy is something that took hundreds of years and so in the most remote and unseen places small cults of pagans exist but by far the Hunnic Empire is Orthodox.

Economic Ideologies : Mercantilism
Major Production : Ore and agrarian goods
Economic Description : Primarily based on agrarian goods and mined resources exportation.

Army Strength : Very fast moving with strong cavalry and skirmish or otherwise irregular units.
Army Weakness :Small regular forces with weak artillery.
Naval Strength : Fast moving ships designed for boarding actions and close quarters fighting. Spectacular in the shallower inlets and coastal waters.
Naval Weakness : Rather weak at range, and technologically deficient to neighbors the Ships themselves suffer greatly from this.
Further Military Description : The Hunnic Military is a merit based force that is trained for largely using irregular fighting. Utilizing skirmish units and very strong fast cavalry based forces the Huns maintain a small spirit of their ancestors. While they lack the bows and no longer fight as savage barbarians they remain mobile. Their artillery when used is light and like the rest of their forces is highly mobile. However using such tactics forces the military to be smaller and more elite which can also be a threat to the nation's security.

The Hunnic navy also tends to be a fast moving force and uses this to try to close the distance between it and it's foes. Often referred to as pirate tactics the Huns consider it a bit of pride that their crews are feared for ferocity. While they somewhat enjoy the idea of being referred to as pirates they are not in any sense of the word. Their crews give full quarter as often as possible and are trained in much the same ways as other nations and so are acquainted proper code of conduct. The Navy vessels while fast and smaller than their enemies in most circumstances severely lack at range. While they have large crew complements and specialize in boarding, their technological weaknesses and small number of light cannon put them at a distinct disadvantage.

National Goals : Expand, Secure Colonial territories, ensure a safe homefront
National Issues : Need to modernize the military, need to establish ties with other nations
National Figures of Interest :Attila, Belumar, Csaba, Ardaric
National Ambition/Aspirations : Becoming a power, make allies with suitable nations, build a renown in the world theater.

History :

495: Attila Marries into Germanic tribes. This begins the huns assimilation of nearby tribes in the Hungarian Plain. Attila becomes very ill and the Huns begin a backwards slide from the aggressive expansion and raiding under him and his predecessor.
520: Atilla's sons split the Hunnic Empire into three pieces upon his death. The area from the Adriatic to the Carpathians is ruled by his youngest son Csaba.
520-540: Csaba's Hunnic Empire composes 7 Hunnic tribes and is the only remaining regional power Hunnic nation by 540.
553: Csaba dies in battle with slavic tribes while trying to forcefully integrate them into the Hunnic Empire.
554: Csaba is succeeded by Malduthk who will be remembered for trying to invade the nearby slavs and Romans. He takes some slavic lands and raids many roman holdings.
600-800: The Hunnic Empire goes between periods of raiding and fighting with the romans and occasional peaceful trade.
825: The Hunnic Empire has Conquered Northern and western regions in the Balkans. Much of these regions are christian and culturally similar to the Romans.
856: The first romanized names of Hunnic nobility appear in record. These are slightly skewed and do not properly match the actual latin naming forms.
925: King Adaric attempts to stop the steady christianization of his people. He commits major atrocities and forces thousands of christians to convert and many more to flee the Hunnic Empire.
938: King Adaric has his own wife crucified to quell rumors she is a christian.
940: King Adaric is captured by rebelling Hunnic lords and burned at the stake.
945: Supporters of Adaric's son attempt to place him on the throne after failing the chieftain's vote.
1021: The Hunnic Empire is forced to accept christians passing through it's lands to avoid problems with christian nations. This again begins to change the culture and religious makeup of the Empire slowly.
1110: The Hunnic Empire Officially Christianizes under Belumar. He will be the last Hunnic Emperor to have traditional gothic or Hunnic name.
1125: King Vulpes is the first Emperor to incorporate the 'new hunnic' naming system. This is loosely based on Roman names however most are heavily altered by the culture of the Huns.
1130: Belgrade is destroyed in a terrible fire, King Vulpes hires hundreds of Romans to aide the Huns in rebuilding the city.
1165: King Vulpes dies before his palace or the city are finished.
1182: The Belgrade Palace is Completed. It is a marvel within and without the Empire. This also leads to much friendlier relations with the Roman Empire.
1200: The Hunnic Empire enters into war with Steppe kingdoms to the east of the Carpathians.
1245: The Huns lost large portions of the northern territories to northern states. These will never be retaken.
1260-1270: The Hunnic Empire largely acts as a client state of the Roman Empire, largely used to bolster Roman armies. By this time the Hunnic Empire is completely Orthodox christian except for minor Catholic portions in the west and germanic (Teutonist) in the north. This period marks the height of Relations with Constantinople in the Middle ages.
1300-1400: Hunnic Empire Goes to war with Rome. It seizes large parts of Albania and Macedonia in the Balkan Wars Early Years in the 1300's. This sours relations for an extremely long time. The Romans retake their lost territories in the Early 1400's and the borders barely change after nearly a century of off and on war.
1425: The Hunnic Empire invades the slavic states north of it but are turned back They do succeed in raiding large areas.
1492: The Hunnic Emperor marries his second daughter to the Roman Emperor. This begins the second era of good relations with Constantinople.
1525: The Hunnic Empire helps the romans to fight off a series of three major steppe tribe invasions in the east.
1600-1636: The Carpathian Wars breaks out between the Huns and the Romans against the now more permanent Slavic states and Cossackia across the Eastern Carpathians. Little progress is made by either side until peace is found. However this Furthers ties with Rome giving the Huns the opportunity to reenter trade and cooperation with it and other Mediterranean States.
1645: The Huns Start the First Latin war and invade southern Croatia. They find Victory here but are repelled from any further territories. They fight over lands largely already having been considered contested provinces. Only small territorial exchanges occur but the fighting is quick and bloody small but costly engagements see hundreds dead.
1647: The Huns declare a great victory but have only taken a small amount of coastal territory. In truth the 'victory' has done little more than seize small slivers of coastal territory and sour already poor relations with the Italian Latins.
1670: Second Latin War is started with the attempted liberation of southern Croatia from the Hunnic Empire. Like the first fighting is bloody and quick. Small punitive forces from both sides attack each other and often masscre small towns and villages to try and weaken enemy resolve. Atrocities occurred on both sides.
1679: The Second Latin War ends with Huns having taken a small amount more of the Southern Croatian territory. It will take decades for both sides to repair the damage done here.
1700-1705: The Cossack War is fought between the expanding Hunnic and Cossack states. Both are very weakened by this war would take years to recuperate with their military. This would begin the long peace for the Hunnic Empire as it attempted to avoid conflict where possible.
1705-1803: The Long Peace where only minor conflicts were fought by the Hunnic empire as it largely made itself neutral from the conflicts around it.
1826: The First Hunnic railroad is ordered by the Emperor. It is built from Belgrade to the Adriatic.
1830: The Belgrade Line is completed and a second line is ordered from Belgrade to the North Eastern border crossing through many towns.
1868: King Ursus is made king the first of his dynasty.

Comparison Points – Political : 2
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious : 2
Comparison Points – Economy : 3
Comparison Points – Military : 3
Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX) : 10/10

[Saint Ryvern]

The technique is known as "flooded raised fields." So ^he is correct, Seinlo, it wouldn't work very well in the desert.

Interesting, just had a look between that and chinampas I think it's safe to say our neck of the world would be the true agricultural powerhouse

Especially with terrace farming too. I like that position. Everyone has to eat.

[Togeria]

Do you not know the majestic tale of Tiwanaku?

No.

[Saint Ryvern]

Do you not know the majestic tale of Tiwanaku?

No.

Just ignore him. I'm prolonging the rule of the Tiwanaku empire in South America.

[Togeria]

Eh, I'm just a Latin(Roman) empire in Brazil.

[Seinlo]

No.

Just ignore him. I'm prolonging the rule of the Tiwanaku empire in South America.

Don't ignore me because I have majestic tales!

[Novacom]

Just ignore him. I'm prolonging the rule of the Tiwanaku empire in South America.

Don't ignore me because I have majestic tales!

No I think this is a sentiment we can all get behind when your on a downward spiral, you really do remind me of Trace, I'd say you two are related

[Seinlo]

Don't ignore me because I have majestic tales!

No I think this is a sentiment we can all get behind when your on a downward spiral, you really do remind me of Trace, I'd say you two are related

You're just saying that because you're Novacom-senpai, and you like to ignore your kohai!

Also, I AM NOT RELATED YOU TRACE! These are lies. Falsehoods. Heresies.

[Novacom]

No I think this is a sentiment we can all get behind when your on a downward spiral, you really do remind me of Trace, I'd say you two are related

You're just saying that because you're Novacom-senpai, and you like to ignore your kohai!

Also, I AM NOT RELATED YOU TRACE! These are lies. Falsehoods. Heresies.

I think we have Confirmation of you being Trace's little brother...

[Seinlo]

You're just saying that because you're Novacom-senpai, and you like to ignore your kohai!

Also, I AM NOT RELATED YOU TRACE! These are lies. Falsehoods. Heresies.

I think we have Confirmation of you being Trace's little brother...

D; EW! No, I already have a big brother! D;

[Saint Ryvern]

Comments before you start reading the monstrosity below: Just a heads up, all the names of officials and stuff are going to be in English because there is no “Tiwanaku language” around. I’m not a linguist either, so one isn’t exactly going to pop into existence overnight, either. Or ever, at that. Also, that means the names I make up for the individuals in Tiwanaku are going to seem dumb. I am aware of this fact. There is no need to point this out to me; unless you really want to, in which case I will agree with you that the names I have made up are dumb.

Full Nation Name : The Interconnected Districts of Tiwanaku
Majority/Official Culture : The majority of the population identify themselves as Tiwanakan or Wari, which, in actual history, were pre-Colombian peoples from Bolivia and Peru, respectively.
Territorial Core : Peru, the western half of Bolivia, and the northern half of Chile
Territorial Claim : The rest of Bolivia
Capital City : Tiwanaku, Bolivia
Population : 6,150,000

Government Type : Oligarchy, though this exists under the guise of a democratically elected council
Government Ideology/Policies : State capitalism. The group of oligarchs that rule the nation own the majority of the arable land in Tiwanaku, control the manufacturers of goods, and oversee the trade routes that run throughout the nation.
Government Focus : The government of Tiwanaku, which is practically synonymous with its economy, is fighting to keep up with the rest of the world. Due to the fact that society is largely agrarian, with some production of specialized goods, the nation has struggled to industrialize as well and as fast as the rest of the world. Therefore, the powers that be in Tiwanaku are desperately fighting to make the foodstuffs their nation provides and the specialized wooden products, textiles, and clothing, essential to the regional, and hopefully, global economy.
Head of State : According to the Treaty of Lukurmata (1430) the Chief of the National Council (CNC) is the head of state. The CNC is an individual selected by the majority of the National Council to lead the sessions of the council and to represent the council to the civilians of Tiwanaku and the world.
Head of Government : Currently, the wealthiest member of the National Council, Hamivar Duscula, is the de facto leader of the National Council. Many of the other members of the NC, including the CNC, are the leaders of corporations Duscula owns, meaning he can tug on their strings very easily in order to achieve his goals.
Government Description : The government of the Interconnected Districts is the National Council. The connection between the districts is the fact that there are equally regulated (taxes are the same everywhere) trade routes running between all five of them, the languages throughout the districts are intelligible to other citizens of the districts (there are three languages in the districts, with local variants, but everyone can pretty much communicate with everyone else), and that each district gets one representative on the NC per the Treaty of Lukurmata. The National Council is the only legislative body in Tiwanaku, and the Chief of the National Council is the sole executive in the nation. By law, judges are elected locally. In practice, judges are placed in their positions by the rich representatives on the National Council, or by their cronies that control the minutia of inner-district activities. The corporation reigns supreme in Tiwanaku, as all the members of the National Council are leading businessmen. The laws, and lack of laws, in the nation revolves around the smooth running of the businesses the councilmen control, or the ones they want to crush. This has been the case since the treaty was first signed in the late 1400s when the first elections were rigged, and is the way the government is likely to remain.

Majority/State Religion : The religion of Tiwanaku is named after its holy city, Pumapunku.
Religious Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

Economic Ideologies : [[Capitalism, Mercantilism, Socialism, Communism, etc.]]
Major Production :
Economic Description :

Army Strength :
Army Weakness :
Naval Strength :
Naval Weakness :
Further Military Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

National Goals :
National Issues : [[what needs to be fixed in order for your nation to achieve its true potential]]
National Figures of Interest : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Are there any Mother Teresas or Moses that we need to know about?]]
National Ambition/Aspirations : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Not really a set objective, but rather the big picture that your nation is drawing towards]]

History : [[Can be in paragraph or bulletpoint timeline.]]

Comparison Points – Political : [[How much national focus is gone into administrating the government, i.e. espionage, royal marriages, counter-intelligence, etc.]]
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious : [[How much national focus is gone into religious and or cultural aspects, i.e. asking for excommunication, call for crusade, soviet revolution in other nations, etc.]]
Comparison Points – Economy : [[How much national focus is gone into economic matters, i.e. embargo/blockade efficiency, lasting through war of attrition, simply feeding your people better, etc.]]
Comparison Points – Military : [[How much national focus is gone into military, i.e. discipline, morale, better tacticians/generals, etc.]]
Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX) : /10

This is what I have so far. It's not much, but it's a start.

[Second Helghan Empire]

You're just saying that because you're Novacom-senpai, and you like to ignore your kohai!

Also, I AM NOT RELATED YOU TRACE! These are lies. Falsehoods. Heresies.

I think we have Confirmation of you being Trace's little brother...

Hehe might just be on to something here.