1870 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][REBOOT]

[Seinlo]

I think I might only have Baruchistan. Maybe a bit more. It's not impossible for me to have it, to be honest. I could even pay a tribute to Persia, and there's lenty of room for them to expand.

[Trotza]

Even so, it's about influence. You'd need to bypass Persian influence in the gulf and the closer parts of the Indian Ocean.

But that is not the main problem.

I have plenty of influence in that area. Strait of Hormuz ring a bell?

Yeah, straits don't really work unless you control both sides.

[Danceria]

I still say base your power in the Gulf of Aden, and perhaps a few cities in Baluchistan (dat be the southern end of Pakistan, considering how expand-y Persia is feeling)

Yes, my base of power will be in the Gulf of Aden. Should I go with Sada'a still, though? Maybe Taiz should be the capital? Is it more strategic? I dunno.

Taiz would be good as a holding/citadel/in case other capitals fail go here, but keep your capital in either Sana'a (due to historical reasons) or Zabid due to it being a center of Islamic culture and knowledge.

I still say base your power in the Gulf of Aden, and perhaps a few cities in Baluchistan (dat be the southern end of Pakistan, considering how expand-y Persia is feeling)

I don't see Yemen holding on to both African and Pakistani possessions, especially since the second would bring him into conflict with Persia.

Ditto, disregard Pakistan outside of a few port cities to get to India, focus on the Gulf of Aden and all below it.

Subjugating a bunch of unruly sultans on the arse end of the civilized world (read as, Horn of Africa and subsequent realms beneath it) over a course of centuries, is one thing, attempting to sandwich yourself between two empires is suicide.

[Tracian Empire]

I have plenty of influence in that area. Strait of Hormuz ring a bell?

Yeah, straits don't really work unless you control both sides.

This^

[Tracian Empire]

I think I might only have Baruchistan. Maybe a bit more. It's not impossible for me to have it, to be honest. I could even pay a tribute to Persia, and there's lenty of room for them to expand.

You have to decide. You're not in a position to expand both towards Africa and Asia.

[Zelent]

Reposting my claims:
http://imgur.com/a/dKaOi

[Seinlo]

Yes, my base of power will be in the Gulf of Aden. Should I go with Sada'a still, though? Maybe Taiz should be the capital? Is it more strategic? I dunno.

Taiz would be good as a holding/citadel/in case other capitals fail go here, but keep your capital in either Sana'a (due to historical reasons) or Zabid due to it being a center of Islamic culture and knowledge.

I don't see Yemen holding on to both African and Pakistani possessions, especially since the second would bring him into conflict with Persia.

Ditto, disregard Pakistan outside of a few port cities to get to India, focus on the Gulf of Aden and all below it.

Subjugating a bunch of unruly sultans on the arse end of the civilized world (read as, Horn of Africa and subsequent realms beneath it) over a course of centuries, is one thing, attempting to sandwich yourself between two empires is suicide.

Alrighty. I'll narrow it down to Baluchistan

[Novacom]

Reposting my claims:
http://imgur.com/a/dKaOi

Might need to double check your colonial claims

And only way to preserve a claim is to app for it.

[Rygondria]

And their goes my java, well time to finish my app before i lose any more colonial possessions.

[Tracian Empire]

Taiz would be good as a holding/citadel/in case other capitals fail go here, but keep your capital in either Sana'a (due to historical reasons) or Zabid due to it being a center of Islamic culture and knowledge.

Ditto, disregard Pakistan outside of a few port cities to get to India, focus on the Gulf of Aden and all below it.

Subjugating a bunch of unruly sultans on the arse end of the civilized world (read as, Horn of Africa and subsequent realms beneath it) over a course of centuries, is one thing, attempting to sandwich yourself between two empires is suicide.

Alrighty. I'll narrow it down to Baluchistan

Even so, how? You have to decide, either you focus on Africa or on Asia. You're not in a position to try to expand both ways.

And stop ignoring my posts, it irks me off.

[Rygondria]

Would 24,000,000 which includes colonies be OK for my population

[The V O I D]

Thrace, I am working on my app again to get most of it out of the way aside from history... although, I might need help organizing my history into bullets and such that make sense.

And I'll give you all the help you need.

Danke, friend.

Going to finish correcting issues with my app after dinner, if all goes according to plan.

Then I just got to do my history.

[Novacom]

I don't see Yemen holding on to both African and Pakistani possessions, especially since the second would bring him into conflict with Persia.

I don't think I would have borders with Persia, though There might be a buffer nation, or a non-nation in the middle. Besides, if an already developed nation entered a PU with Yemen, it would just make an already interesting part of the world more interesting.

Assuming that got accepted, PU'ing everything isn't very plausible, certainly not on the scale your thinking of

China was mostly taken as far as I remember.

South China seems empty. Based on the outdated map.

Also, I noticed that you got 13 points instead of 10. Is there some special rule?

Southern China WAS mentioned as there being an interest in but nothings been heard for a while, so that is a possibility, South America is also free with even the possibility of a viable Incan Empire as well, the 13 points is a hold over from the old thread, not many people have the extra 3, there are ways to earn more and also ways to lose those bonus points as well *waves event mallet*

[Tracian Empire]

I don't think I would have borders with Persia, though There might be a buffer nation, or a non-nation in the middle. Besides, if an already developed nation entered a PU with Yemen, it would just make an already interesting part of the world more interesting.

Assuming that got accepted, PU'ing everything isn't very plausible, certainly not on the scale your thinking of

South China seems empty. Based on the outdated map.

Also, I noticed that you got 13 points instead of 10. Is there some special rule?

Southern China WAS mentioned as there being an interest in but nothings been heard for a while, so that is a possibility, South America is also free with even the possibility of a viable Incan Empire as well, the 13 points is a hold over from the old thread, not many people have the extra 3, there are ways to earn more and also ways to lose those bonus points as well *waves event mallet*

Nova.
PURPLE

[Seinlo]

Alrighty. I'll narrow it down to Baluchistan

Even so, how? You have to decide, either you focus on Africa or on Asia. You're not in a position to try to expand both ways.

And stop ignoring my posts, it irks me off.

The Ghurid Kingdom was an independent state, and a PU requires little to no expansion efforts. Other kinds of efforts, yes,but they were a Muslim nation, and it fits with the rest of my nation, which owes its size to various PU's and absorptions of other Muslim nations. Over time, administration and such would change, yes, but this is a very small kingdom that was once held by the Ghurid dynasty, and is now held by the Rasulid-Ghurid dynasty.

I'm the last major holdout for Islam, and we have had plenty of influence on our culture as a result, which has led to a more peaceful, less war-like peoples living in an affluent society that are more than willing to make agreements or compromises with outside nations, as long as they get to stay together. They won't be anyone's bitch, as that wouldn't have allowed their flourishing economy to develop, but it isn't as hard to survive as you think it is, because just like territory isn't the end-all, be-all in this game, neither is your Rome.

[Seinlo]

I don't think I would have borders with Persia, though There might be a buffer nation, or a non-nation in the middle. Besides, if an already developed nation entered a PU with Yemen, it would just make an already interesting part of the world more interesting.

Assuming that got accepted, PU'ing everything isn't very plausible, certainly not on the scale your thinking of

South China seems empty. Based on the outdated map.

Also, I noticed that you got 13 points instead of 10. Is there some special rule?

Southern China WAS mentioned as there being an interest in but nothings been heard for a while, so that is a possibility, South America is also free with even the possibility of a viable Incan Empire as well, the 13 points is a hold over from the old thread, not many people have the extra 3, there are ways to earn more and also ways to lose those bonus points as well *waves event mallet*

I'm not PUing everything. I've only had two PUs. The rest was done through absorbing and/or conquering smaller states. I think I overstated the prominence of PUs, so I apologjze.

[Novacom]

Assuming that got accepted, PU'ing everything isn't very plausible, certainly not on the scale your thinking of



Southern China WAS mentioned as there being an interest in but nothings been heard for a while, so that is a possibility, South America is also free with even the possibility of a viable Incan Empire as well, the 13 points is a hold over from the old thread, not many people have the extra 3, there are ways to earn more and also ways to lose those bonus points as well *waves event mallet*

I'm not PUing everything. I've only had two PUs. The rest was done through absorbing and/or conquering smaller states. I think I overstated the prominence of PUs, so I apologjze.

Just a bit overemphasizing yes...

[Seinlo]

I think that the PU between Oman and Yemen, and the PU between Yemen and the Ghurid Kingdom are separated by over a century.

On another note, the Ghurid Kingdom is interesting in this RP because it was a remnant state operating under the Ghurid dynasty, and is never referred to as the Kingdom of Ghurid or another name. The citizens of this land also identify as 'Ghurid Muslims' rather than a Persianite, Indian, Arabian, or any other kind of ethnically-related cultural identity, mostly as a result of some scewered culture being combined with a fierce nationalistic culture that agreed with a PU between the Ghurid and Rasulid dynasties. And yes, they're aware that they are descended from Persians, and retain some Persian traits, but otherwise they don't care.

[Seinlo]

I'm not PUing everything. I've only had two PUs. The rest was done through absorbing and/or conquering smaller states. I think I overstated the prominence of PUs, so I apologjze.

Just a bit overemphasizing yes...

I do that sometimes. I'm not the best with explanations. Thankfully, people seem to enjoy my poetry and lyrics more than my explanations.

*Serenades Novacom-senpai.*

[Zelent]

And their goes my java, well time to finish my app before i lose any more colonial possessions.

What happened did you spill it?

[Danceria]

Just a bit overemphasizing yes...

I do that sometimes. I'm not the best with explanations. Thankfully, people seem to enjoy my poetry and lyrics more than my explanations.

*Serenades Novacom-senpai.*

I think by PU-ing, you mean marrying into the various kingdoms, and gradually gaining influence and prominence until they are subservient to you.

[Seinlo]

Pre-Application Credits: Danceria played a massive part in helping me come up with this, and I actually have screenshots of stuff I hope makes it into the app, since it’s all really awesome. I was also helped out a lot by the rest of the members, and would like to mention Sanabel and Thrace. This isn’t my best app, but I can assure you that it is certainly my post unique.


Full Nation Name: The Empire of Rasuli-Ghor, AKA the Sultanate of Yemen and the Ghurid Kingdom
Majority/Official Culture: Most consider themselves Arabian, the Persian-descended ‘Ghurid Muslims’, or a combination of Arabian, ‘Ghurid Muslim’ and some other culture; there is a cultural continuum similar to a dialect continuum, but different in that Madagascar’s culture is about as severe as the differences get (except for those causing rebellions), and there are many shared traits between the cultures
Territorial Core: Yemen, Oman, Socotra island, modern Saudi Arabia, modern U.A.E., modern Bahrain, modern Qatarn, modern Pakistan/whatever else makes up the Kingdom of Ghurid
Territorial Claim: Very strong presences in the Horn of Africa (Eritrea, Djibouti, Somalia, Ethiopia), with prominent settlements in Zanzibar (parts of Somalia, Kenya, Tanzania, Malawi, Mozambique, and Burundi), Reunion island, Kuria Muria island, Masira island, the Seychelles archipelago, the Chagos archipelago, Mauritius and colonies in the African Great Lakes


This. In case it’s not on the map, I have colonies in the African Great Lakes, the Chagos archipelago, the Seychelles archipelago, Mauritius, the Kuria Muria island, Masira island, and Reuinion island. Madagascar also includes Mayotte and the Comoros. I tried to make it so that the Ghurid Kingdom was large enough to offer something to the Rasulid dynasty, but small enough that it was reasonable.
Capital City: Sana’a, Yemen and Quetta, the Ghurid Kingdom
Population: 22,885,700 without Ethiopia and the Ghurid Kingdom, 32,320,700 with Ethiopia and without the Ghurid Kingdom, 32,712,000 with the Ghurid Kingdom and without Ethiopia, 42,147,600 with both

Government Type: Absolutist monarchy accompanied by a rights-granting charter that only the Sultan isn’t required to follow, and democratic- and republican-leaning tendencies in some areas
Government Ideology/Policies: Non-militant expansionism that sometimes escalates into militant expansionism or even imperialism. Many members of society have nationalism or patriotism of some sort for the Sultanate of Yemen in their hearts, but there are some who take it to the extreme and express chauvinism. There are small rebellions however, and not everyone reacts with anger, pointing to the fact that nationalism and patriotism isn’t as important to some people as it is to others (while many have nationalistic or patriotic views, some are less pronounced in their beliefs).
Government Focus: The economy and culture are the largest focuses, but the military is strong as a result of heavy funding, extensive training, closely held ideals, and a mercenary/privateer force working aside them
Head of State: Sultan Al-Afdal Al-Abbas II of the Rasulid-Ghurid Dynasty, Sovereign of the Ghurid Kingdom, Caliph of All Islam
Head of Government: Sultan Al-Afdal Al-Abbas II of the Rasulid-Ghurid Dynasty, Sovereign of the Ghurid Kingdom, Caliph of All Islam
Government Description: The Sultan is the absolute ruler, possessing widespread executive powers. A rights-granting charter, a combination of secular and Roman law, and his Cabinet of Yemen and the Ghurid Kingdom (the Council of Ministers; it is over double the size it is IRL, as there are Sultan-elected representatives of several areas) aid greatly in his rule. The Sultan sits in on all meetings held by the nation’s parliament, and has final say and veto powers on all laws passed in the nation (and for rules/laws passed on a scale smaller than nation-wide, he is given reports; these laws will probably never contradict the main law, however). The parliament is made up of the upper house elected by the Sultan (the Council of State of Yemen and the Ghurid Kingdom), and the democratically elected lower house (Consultative Assembly, which is also over twice the size it is IRL). The public is well aware of the fact that the Sultan has and will waive constitutional rights, and respects this as he is the only one capable of doing so. Other parts of the government exist, such as a bureaucracy of non-elected and elected officials, and smaller components such as the rulers of a city.


The country is known for possessing very open foreign and trade policies, as well as an open mind when it comes to negotiations, for the most part. These traits most likely arose due to the increased threat posed by technologically advanced neighbors or economic rivals, but they have led to a bustling economy with free trade (of course, tariffs and taxes still apply), stock markets in all major cities and economic centers, beneficial land ownership laws, smooth operation, and other attributes that make the Sultanate exciting for domestic and international traders alike.


The Sultanate of Yemen is divided into governorates (Muhafazah) as first-order administration, then provinces (Wiliyat), then districts (Kaza), then the subdistricts (the equivalent of counties) (Nahiyah), and then finally into municipalities, a concept embraced because of exposure to Westerners. The colonies are called dominions, but Yemen is closer to to its dominions than the real life British Empire was. The type of leader for each will be as follows: governor for the governorates, mutasariff for the provinces, kaimakam for districts (the military rank of kaimakam has been replaced by the title yarbay), a mudir for subdistricts, and mayors for municipalities. Each leader of the governorates and provinces will have secretaries for finance, agriculture and commerce, interaction with foreigners, public works, and correspondence and archives, while those of smaller divisions will have similar staff, and for many of these there is an executive council.

Majority/State Religion: The Arabian Agglomeration
Religious Description: Not given a single-word name like so many other religions, mostly because it hasn’t been given an official name, the so-called Arabian Agglomeration is the same agglomeration as the most widely held culture in the Sultanate of Yemen and its territories. While it may differ from region to region in some areas, and has its strongest presence in Yemen’s territorial core (Madagascar is in the territorial core, but expresses a combination of Malagasy beliefs and those that go along with the Arabian Agglomeration, which has seeped into the African territories it is close to), it is mostly Arabic/Sunni Muslim influenced by Sufism, and blended with Persian, Somali, Abyssinian, and Swahili beliefs, as is the rest of the culture.

Economic Ideologies: Mixed market, with a focus on not creating social disorder through wage gaps, and, like much of the Middle East did, extending the ruler’s power, and in some way becoming wealthy through making the working/productive classes more prosperous. Please note that they also make use of tactics other than the one mentioned, and are in no way limited to that one tactic.
Major Production:
Economic Description: With the adoption of highly efficient and generally very open economic policies that generate much wealth for the Sultanate, the embracement of Roman law, aqueducting, and other customs of the “West” (yes, this is essentially word for word what Danceria suggested, though I edited it some), as well as having algebra and other things while Europe was rather primitive in nature (this one is more ancient, but it still influenced the present Sultanate of Yemen and the Ghurid Kingdom), the Sultanate of Yemen and the Ghurid Kingdom has become an extremely wealthy mercantile nation. It is semi-industrialized, possessing a well-invested textile industry, more modernized mining, manufacturing, and other such things than those without any industrialization, and it possesses extensive railroad and telegraph networks built by contracting industrialized Western nations. It isn’t uncommon for a decent percentage of the GDP to come from renting out privateer and mercenary guilds, many of which operate independently of the Sultanate, but rely on the Sultanate to provide them jobs, with contracts existing regarding what jobs they can take, with benefits such as serving the Sultanate of Yemen and the Ghurid Kingdom and finding a safe-haven there (as long as they follow the laws).

Army Strength: The national army and mercenary corps are well-funded and disciplined (leaving them with possession of modern firearms (about 1870 level), and the common use of effective indirect fire with artillery)
Army Weakness: Many of the numbers come from the mercenary corps, and the army is pretty average outside of their funding and discipline
Naval Strength: The national navy and privateer corps are Incredibly well-funded and disciplined (leaving them with steam-assisted vessels, in possession of a significant amount of smaller vessels that they frequently put together in flotillas that are part of larger groups meant to overwhelm larger vessels, and they have access to shell guns) possess a significant amount of smaller vessels that they frequently use in swarms, and they have access to shell guns
Naval Weakness: Less sophisticated than most major rivals (they are about 1860-1870 level, but Oriental and Western European rivals, which are pretty plentiful, are 10 to 20 years ahead), lagging behind in research for ironclads when compared to the likes of Rome, and, like the army, they are pretty average outside of their funding and discipline
Further Military Description: Aside from the national army and navy, there exist the ground-based mercenary corps, the privateer fleets, and the so-called ‘fortress defenders’. The national army has 225,000 regular soldiers from every corner of the Sultanate, not counting those in the Communications, Medical, Engineering, or other auxiliary corps; it can also levy en masse fairly easily. The mercenary corps adds over 400,000 men to the standard force, which brings it to above 1% of the population, but the wealth of the Sultanate of Yemen more than makes up for this, and it is necessary because of the threat posed by extremely powerful neighbors and rivals. The mercenary corps are largely Somali/Abyssinian/Ghurid mercenaries, and investment has led to a healthy industry of renting out l mercenaries to those in the Indian Ocean, with numbers outside of the active 400,000 available for being rented out. ‘fortress defenders’ are regular officers with less training than the national army meant to bolster the defenses of fortifications and military bases, all of which have been trained well in defending their charges. There also exists the policing force that is state-funded; they are efficient, well-funded, and well-trained, but I don’t need to give numbers for them because they operate almost entirely on a domestic basis unless there is a very significant national emergency that calls for the use of something so integral to peace within the Sultanate of Yemen. The national navy has 81 ships-of-the-line (all at or above third-rate on the RL British Empire’s rating system), 102 great frigates, 273 frigates, and numerous corvettes, sloops-of-war, and support or auxiliary vessels (including bomb ships [ships equipped with mortars, which are still used, but not as much as they used to be because of the advent of effective shell guns], transport vessels, tenders, hospital ships, and a very sizable merchant fleet). The privateer navy, which operates largely in the Indian Ocean and has also been leveraged into a force that can be recruited out, has numbers eclipsing the national navy, but they are generally smaller vessels, and only larger privateer organizations of epic status operate anything like a first-rate (I think I will have one or two of these organizations). In training, there is a focus on loyalty, valor, honor, camaraderie, and similar traits. The majority of the national army has been trained and educated since childhood, though the Sultanate also is increasing the recruitment of standard officers (which will be held to a certain level of expectation), and has built additional recruitment centers. Overall, the Sultanate of Yemen and the Ghurid Kingdom has built and maintained such a large military because of the utterly massive threat posed by certain nations.

National Goals: Overall, they wish to make sure that Islam survives, even if it isn’t pure Islam anymore. They wish to become independent of imports of coal and other industrial materials, and also to have the ability to become independent of Western firms, but not necessarily to abandon their contracts with them.
National Issues: Natural resources (such as coal, and such for steel and, oh, I dunno, an actual industrial revolution), the lagging behind their rivals, certain regional alliances (getting rid of them is out of the question, so cozying up to them is more likely), highly efficient and sophisticated competition from Western Europe and the Oriental nations, ‘rebel’ groups of pirates that refused becoming a privateer guild in the Empire
National Ambition/Aspirations: To become more sophisticated, self-sustaining, and less fearful than they are now. They envision a much more prosperous nation, and this is idealized in things like the painting of lush, but still metaphorical and somewhat abstract landscapes of Arabia (the lushness is a metaphor for what they want the nation to become, and the abstract styles slowly formed as people started introducing ways to prevent them for being mistaken for actual landscapes), which adds to the affluent, ambitious, but ultimately unsatisified cultural identity seen in the Rasuli-Ghor.

History:

• Before 1096: As per real life, there was a massive spread of Islam, but it did not reach far past the Yazd province of present day Iran, and found more of a home in the western and southern areas of Africa. Shia-Sunni infighting devastated the Muslim nations, and left them much more open to attack by the incredibly powerful Roman-Persian alliance later down the road, for the Zoroastrians to take control of Persia, and for a number of other important matters to occur.
• 1096: The Crusades begin
• 1098: The states of Yemen and Oman form a personal union
• 1229: Rasulid Dynasty is founded by Umar ibn Rasul, conquests begin
• 1230: The Ghurid Kingdom enters a persona union with the Sultanate of Yemen, resulting in the short lived Union of Yemen, Oman, and the Ghurid Kingdom
• 1232: The Sultanate of Oman is dissolved, and becomes part of the Sultanate of Yemen
• 1238: Several children have been born as a result of the personal union between Yemen and the Ghurid Kingdom
• 1441: Extinguishment of major rebellions, ushering in a new era of peace under the Rasulid dynasty, and preventing the fall of the Rasulid dynasty in 1454
• 1442: Defeat of Egypt, and completed control over the Hejaz Region
• 1687: After gathering together allies and the support of Rome, a descendent of al-Mas’ud Abu al-Qasim (the last RL ruler of the Rasulid dynasty) abolishes Sharia law and implements several changes
• 1845: First shell gun reaches the Sultanate of Yemen and the Ghurid Kingdom
• 1854: After nearly a decade of development, a more sophisticated shell gun is produced by the

[[Can be in paragraph or bulletpoint timeline.]]

Comparison Points – Political: 2.5
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious: 2.5
Comparison Points – Economy: 3
Comparison Points – Military: 2
Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX): 10/10

[Seinlo]

I do that sometimes. I'm not the best with explanations. Thankfully, people seem to enjoy my poetry and lyrics more than my explanations.

*Serenades Novacom-senpai.*

I think by PU-ing, you mean marrying into the various kingdoms, and gradually gaining influence and prominence until they are subservient to you.

Sometimes, but there were actual PUs with Oman and the Ghurid Kingdom, though Oman has been dissolved as a separate state.

I really need help with the history, and then I'm done.

[Seinlo]

By help, I mostly mean dates, and no,not the fruit.

[Danceria]

By help, I mostly mean dates, and no,not the fruit.

Even though you'll be a large producer of them

I still have trouble swallowing the Ghurid branch of your already slightly unbelievable nation, as the PU would most likely be recent and out of desperation (on the Ghurid's side) by one of two things.

1) India and Persia. Need I say more?

2) Gradual and long term economic bullying, of which the Ghurid "King" is little more than a Rasulid puppet. Albeit, not the worst puppet as opposed to something Hindu or Zoroastrian, but still.

Reasons being that it allows a few catalysts to occur, namely who will control the last leg of the Silk Road. I foresee a Ghurid proxy conflict where Indians, Persians, Ghurid Seperatists, and Rasulids fight a bloody war.

A Personal Union (according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary) is: "a union of two states constituted by their becoming subject to the same personal ruler without loss of independent sovereignty" personal ruler being monarch. A smarter approach is to attempt to puppet a few regional rulers, that way you can still keep power in the bits you want (the coastal cities), let Persia tramp about the inland areas, and you'll both walk away happy (and wealthy).