Imperium Aeternum [AH/OOC/OPEN]

[Pimps Inc]

Maybe a trade agreement could be made, since i'm sure there is a need for chocolate and other exotic goods in Europe. Akan could agree to trade solely with the Celtics, who in turn could take the goods and sell them in Europe for a higher price while taxing said goods enough to alleviate the cost of the bridge.

Woah woah woah, cacao is Aztec property. The trees and expertise are in Mexico. The Colombian Exchange might not have happened as in depth as real life.

[Plzen]

Loans. They shall require loans. You know what to do...

Based on the real-life cost of the Øresund Bridge, I suspect that Celtia is looking at construction costs of at least 10~20 million 1~2 million Scandinavian kroner. Possibly a bit less, since quality standards in this era are probably a lot lower than quality standards of the RL Øresund Bridge.

I could go into details about the kinds of economic havoc Celtia would have to go through to pay that cost, but suffice to say that there are more than I can be bothered to list.

EDIT: Accuracy of calculation.

[Sivio]

I apologize for the short post. Been busy and whatnot. I'll try to do more frequent and lengthy posts starting tomorrow later today technically, considering it's 1:00 am.

[The Frozen Forest]

Maybe a trade agreement could be made, since i'm sure there is a need for chocolate and other exotic goods in Europe. Akan could agree to trade solely with the Celtics, who in turn could take the goods and sell them in Europe for a higher price while taxing said goods enough to alleviate the cost of the bridge.

Woah woah woah, cacao is Aztec property. The trees and expertise are in Mexico. The Colombian Exchange might not have happened as in depth as real life.

I'm sure the Romans were able to gain access to Cacao from the area's they managed to take from the Aztecs, and i'm sure they enslaved plenty of men and women who would have been brought back to Rome with the knowledge of how to produce and refine it. From there it could have easily traveled south and have been picked up by the Akanese. For the most part though chocolate production would be relatively light with the Aztecs being the worlds primary supplier. Ironically the Aztecs can't wait around for Roman Conquest, yet by fighting Rome they pretty much cut themselves off from trading with anyone influenced by Rome.

Perhaps we could purchase huge amounts of the bean from the Aztecs, grow and refine them in Akan, sell them at a decent price to the Celtics who could charge an exorbitant price in Europe and therefore pay for their bridge. Through this route Romans will still receive chocolate regardless of hostilities between the Aztec and Roman Empires, Akan makes a tidy profit along with furthering the Chocolate industry in Akan and the Celtics are able to finance their projects somewhat without having to resort to asking other countries for loans.

[Kerbodine]

Wooo finally got a post out *sighs relief*

Loans. They shall require loans. You know what to do...

Based on the real-life cost of the Øresund Bridge, I suspect that Celtia is looking at construction costs of about 10~20 million Scandinavian kroner. Possibly a bit less, since quality standards in this era are probably a lot lower than quality standards of the RL Øresund Bridge.

I could go into details about the kinds of economic havoc Celtia would have to go through to pay that cost, but suffice to say that there are more than I can be bothered to list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Sea_fixed_crossing

Lol, that's a minimum length of at least twice that of the Oresund bridge... With ~1900 level technology at best (without Scandinavian/German/Byzantine/Roman support, probably at least 50 years behind that, based on the history), that's... Well... Let's just say that it's roughly (toss-out numbers) the equivalent of this place building the Hoover Dam.

[Plzen]

-snipped because no longer relevant-

[Plzen]

I think this is the longest real-life bridge that has been built at or before 1900.

Norfolk Southern Lake Pontchartrain Bridge, 9.3 km, completed 1884.

For comparison, the Ireland-Scotland bridge that Celtia's proposing seems to be 20.6 km. I don't see how that can be done with 1900 tech.

[Kerbodine]

-snip-

Emphasis on how deep the proposed routes would be. I'd say the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Sea ... y.29_route route is most likely, based on what Wikipedia says about some railway magnate considering building a tunnel there; I'd agree that building a bridge would be extremely unrealistic, once again without heavy foreign support (I'd assume any Western/developed power backing the project would make it plausible, though how Celtia would pay for it who knows).

[Plzen]

-snip-

I don't think that the Ireland-Scotland bridge will be a viable idea even with full Roman support.

Tunnel is more interesting, but how would such a long tunnel be aired? Artificial ventilation was quite primitive until very recently in history, and the smoke buildup in the middle could be quite lethal. Also, cost... the money...

[Kerbodine]

-snip-

I don't think that the Ireland-Scotland bridge will be a viable idea even with full Roman support.

Tunnel is more interesting, but how would such a long tunnel be aired? Artificial ventilation was quite primitive until very recently in history, and the smoke buildup in the middle could be quite lethal. Also, cost... the money...

The Celtic tunnel would be comparable to the Chunnel, but deeper... And built with technology from 4/5ths of a century earlier... With steam trains and poor ventilation at best... Don't see that happening.

Yeaeaaaahhhh, I'm thinking this is going to be a very, very expensive failure of a project; the bridge, I think, would be physically plausible but economically and politically impossible.

[Plzen]

Rodez, could you write a draft of the Scandinavian-Hatterian free trade agreement? I'm not really in a position to write long texts in the next week or so.

Valyrian Empire, I need a response post from the Byzantine Empire. VOID, could you write that response post, if Valyria doesn't? Thanks.

[Pimps Inc]

Woah woah woah, cacao is Aztec property. The trees and expertise are in Mexico. The Colombian Exchange might not have happened as in depth as real life.

I'm sure the Romans were able to gain access to Cacao from the area's they managed to take from the Aztecs, and i'm sure they enslaved plenty of men and women who would have been brought back to Rome with the knowledge of how to produce and refine it. From there it could have easily traveled south and have been picked up by the Akanese. For the most part though chocolate production would be relatively light with the Aztecs being the worlds primary supplier. Ironically the Aztecs can't wait around for Roman Conquest, yet by fighting Rome they pretty much cut themselves off from trading with anyone influenced by Rome.

Perhaps we could purchase huge amounts of the bean from the Aztecs, grow and refine them in Akan, sell them at a decent price to the Celtics who could charge an exorbitant price in Europe and therefore pay for their bridge. Through this route Romans will still receive chocolate regardless of hostilities between the Aztec and Roman Empires, Akan makes a tidy profit along with furthering the Chocolate industry in Akan and the Celtics are able to finance their projects somewhat without having to resort to asking other countries for loans.

Cacao is money the Aztec Empire. As in it's actually our currency. Bringing back slaves to the Old World back when Rome first make contact was impossible. If disease didn't kill them outright, the ship ride back home would.

The raid on Veracruz can go many ways. We will see what happens.

[Rodez]

Rodez, could you write a draft of the Scandinavian-Hatterian free trade agreement? I'm not really in a position to write long texts in the next week or so.

Valyrian Empire, I need a response post from the Byzantine Empire. VOID, could you write that response post, if Valyria doesn't? Thanks.

Will do. I'll throw up a post later today as well.

[The V O I D]

Going to post for people sometime this week.

Just a note now that starting on Thursday until next Monday-ish, I'll be at a relative's house for Christmas. I'll still be online but if my post isn't done by then it might be delayed.

[The Valyria Empire]

Rodez, could you write a draft of the Scandinavian-Hatterian free trade agreement? I'm not really in a position to write long texts in the next week or so.

Valyrian Empire, I need a response post from the Byzantine Empire. VOID, could you write that response post, if Valyria doesn't? Thanks.

Impatient a little bit, huh? I have a lot of RPs and IRL stuff to deal with, besides if you want an answer in OOC it's a no.

Byzantium sees you as savages.

[Plzen]

Impatient a little bit, huh? I have a lot of RPs and IRL stuff to deal with, besides if you want an answer in OOC it's a no.

Byzantium sees you as savages.

I will have to find a workaround, then. Perhaps I'll use that base in Mongolia to capture Java as a colony, then I will be able to establish a naval base in Southeast Asia.

[Kerbodine]

Impatient a little bit, huh? I have a lot of RPs and IRL stuff to deal with, besides if you want an answer in OOC it's a no.

Byzantium sees you as savages.

I will have to find a workaround, then. Perhaps I'll use that base in Mongolia to capture Java as a colony, then I will be able to establish a naval base in Southeast Asia.

It seems we have a common issue in general Byzantine anti-Germanic/Norse sentiment. It's really a shame *shrug*.

[The Frozen Forest]

I'm sure the Romans were able to gain access to Cacao from the area's they managed to take from the Aztecs, and i'm sure they enslaved plenty of men and women who would have been brought back to Rome with the knowledge of how to produce and refine it. From there it could have easily traveled south and have been picked up by the Akanese. For the most part though chocolate production would be relatively light with the Aztecs being the worlds primary supplier. Ironically the Aztecs can't wait around for Roman Conquest, yet by fighting Rome they pretty much cut themselves off from trading with anyone influenced by Rome.

Perhaps we could purchase huge amounts of the bean from the Aztecs, grow and refine them in Akan, sell them at a decent price to the Celtics who could charge an exorbitant price in Europe and therefore pay for their bridge. Through this route Romans will still receive chocolate regardless of hostilities between the Aztec and Roman Empires, Akan makes a tidy profit along with furthering the Chocolate industry in Akan and the Celtics are able to finance their projects somewhat without having to resort to asking other countries for loans.

Cacao is money the Aztec Empire. As in it's actually our currency. Bringing back slaves to the Old World back when Rome first make contact was impossible. If disease didn't kill them outright, the ship ride back home would.

The raid on Veracruz can go many ways. We will see what happens.

Trust me, Rome would have enslaved a large enough portion that at least one of those chocolate makers would have survived. This isn't to mention that the Romans would have held onto the industry in their colonies, so any immune white man could have learned how to do this and simply moved back to Europe where his skills would have been somewhat valuable. We could always trade you guns and other war supplies in exchange for it then, grow it in Akan and either sell it to the Celtics or trade it directly in Europe ourselves.


I'm going to work on a Trade Routes Map if that's okay with VOID. What are everyones major imports and exports, and what kind of goods are flowing to/from your colonies back to your homelands?

[Kerbodine]

I'm going to work on a Trade Routes Map if that's okay with VOID. What are everyones major imports and exports, and what kind of goods are flowing to/from your colonies back to your homelands?

Germania mostly trades with Rome and Rome's sphere (and our neighbor of Poland-Ruthenia), but is beginning to trade more internationally. Our trade with Scandinavia is rather limited, as we have somewhat similar economies and aren't on the best terms; basically, their goods are similar in price to ours when you include transport, meaning they have no need to purchase our materials. Our exports include iron, steel, other metals, and coal. Emphasis on steel: Germany itself produces more steel than the entire Roman empire, and are by far the world's top exporter (without a strong America or Britain, nobody else is a serious competitor). Arguably the most heavily industrialized state per capita, Germania also exports lots of heavy equipment, such as for mining, construction, engineering, or industry. Lots of high-tech equipment, such as steam turbines for ships, are also produced in Germany. (Strong cartels, trusts, and agreements dominate the industrial field of Germania. Most industrial corporations actually work together to a limited degree, allowing general German growth and encouraging exports.)

Germania relies on certain imports, of course. We import a lot of food from Poland-Ruthenia, with upwards of 5-10% of our needed food being imported from abroad (half of said imports being from P-R, the rest mostly coming from the Romans). Certain rare materials, such as chromium, that are needed for industrial or chemical processes, are imported in large numbers. Trade routes with the Byzantines, while seemingly discouraged by the Byzantine government, are inevitably growing as Germania's need for certain materials that only Byzantium and its colonies can provide (rubber, oil, etc). Germania is also trading more with the various colonies/post-colonies of the Romans and Byzantines, as they have a need for German materials in exchange (...not literally) for cheap raw materials (like lumber, cloths, or food).

In short, Germany exports lots of steel and industrial stuff and imports food and certain raw materials.

[Plzen]

I'm going to work on a Trade Routes Map if that's okay with VOID. What are everyones major imports and exports, and what kind of goods are flowing to/from your colonies back to your homelands?

Scandinavia imports:

coal and coke from Hatteria, Germany, Poland-Ruthenia, Rome, and Mongolia,
grain from Poland-Ruthenia, Hatteria, Rome, and our three client states (Estland, Livland, Riga)
textiles and fabric from Hatteria,
liquor from New Rome and Russia,
wool from Mongolia,
sulfur and explosives from Java, (this, by the way, is why Scandinavia is so sensitive about the Tang being aggressive against Java)
tea from Dai Nam and Great Tang,
tobacco from Hatteria,
wine from Rome,
processed food from Germany and Rome,
chemical products from Germany, Rome, and Celtia,
fertiliser from Roman colonies
rubber from Java and Byzantine Malaya,
coffee from Akan and Java,
dyes from Java and Byzantine Bengal,
automobiles and aeroplanes from Germany and Rome,
silk from Java, Japan, Dai Nam and Great Tang;

Also, various other metals and minerals from wherever available.

Scandinavia exports:
steel, raw iron, machinery, mechanical and electric components, liquor, chemical and medical products, fish, cattle and animal products, seagoing vessels, furniture, and lumber.

[Federal States of Xathuecia]

Time to see if Scandinavia is serious about preventing German dominance especially in Poland-Ruthenia.

How? Just ask....

[Kerbodine]

Time to see if Scandinavia is serious about preventing German dominance especially in Poland-Ruthenia.

How? Just ask....

I'm... Well, a bit nervous to ask, really

[Kerbodine]

Squeezed out a short post that was fun for me, at least; let me know if anyone has any problems with it, as it deals with aviation. I focus a bit much on German pioneers, of course; there are likely a couple more Roman pioneers than I mentioned.
I took some liberties with historical names and figures; I love aviation and aerospace history, so yeah, playing around with some of what I know. I left out one or two mention-worthy figures like Langley, since so many early air pioneers were Americans; I also played around with people like Lilienthal (historically died in a glider crash), and of course I acknowledge that this is going on 60 years early but eh, I like their names and taking historical inspiration. (I changed a few people's names to have Roman middle names- something common in this Germania [actually, many of my characters have ridiculously long names lol]- or changing Whitehead to maintain his German name.)

[Kazarogkai]

I'm going to work on a Trade Routes Map if that's okay with VOID. What are everyones major imports and exports, and what kind of goods are flowing to/from your colonies back to your homelands?

Kobiwa

Exports: Gold, Iron, Diamonds, Steel, Industrial Minerals, Exotic Wildlife, Slaves, Furniture, Seagoing vessels Tropical Timber, Fish, Tea, Agricultural Goods, Animal products(cattle, goats, etc),

Imports: Armaments, Machinery, Mechanical and Electronic Components, Tools, Dyes, Textiles and Fabric, Sulfur

Overview: As one might expect we have a lot of natural resources which allows for a rather diversified economy mostly reliant on the extraction of said goods. As of now the Kobiwa are still reliant on traditional craftworks for their manufactured goods not having been graced with any sort of industrial revolution. Still their large population kinda helps make up for that in part compared to some of their neighbors with raw bulk if in an inefficient way. As of now trade with europe is rather limited with majority of the Kobiwa's attention being toward the great indian ocean trade which until recently they could claim with some certainty was their lake. Powerful opponents with great technology whose attention has begun to shift over to these parts has left that in doubt though. As mentioned trade with europe is limited but when it happens it usually involves armaments in one shape or form with the Kobiwa's need for such things being quite unsatable and at the top of the agenda. A thing to keep in mind; though trade is important of course the majority of the Government's revenue does not derive from it. Instead the coffers are mostly filled by the arguably excessive taxes squeezed out of the population by the intensely bureaucratic and straight up byzantine thing that is their government. That and "tribute" payments from the various polities who they have "blessed" with their protection and crushed with their wrath.

I'll get a post up after work.

[The V O I D]

I guarantee you all that if a post isn't out tonight, it has to be out tomorrow morning.