Twilight of the Galaxy: Reloaded (OOC, Open)

[The Greater Gambia]

Orson, got your post out.

[Nazeroth]

Idk where to begin

[Plzen]

Idk where to begin

When in doubt, internal politics.

Or that's what I do, anyways.

[The V O I D]

IC post is up!

Oh, yes. The United Nations of Sol does not recognise the Conglomerate as a nation-state and therefore refuses to interact as if they are one.

We are not exactly the most friendly State in the galaxy. Rather the opposite, in fact.

How come you don't recognize it? It technically is a form of government. After all, on Earth, many political figures and economic figures have suggested the idea of a corporatocratic government as being the polar opposite to a communist government. The Conglomerate is simply those concepts realized, in a species which had a similar concept, but the Corporations actually did decide to take over. Besides, corporatocratic means that you can also be governed by corporate interests; the UNS legislates domestically and non-domestically in favor of their corporations, as well as their economy, does it not?

In fact, most nations do. All of y'all are technically just a wee bit corporatocratic, unless you literally don't have lobbyism or some form of corporate influence in government. You'd also need to not have a focus on economic needs; at least, not a very high focus, that is.

[Plzen]

How come you don't recognize it? It technically is a form of government.

The UNS does recognise it as a country. The United Nations, however, does not recognise the Conglomerate as a state. Key difference.

Unless I'm mistaken (and please tell me if I am), you have essentially described an Anarcho-Capitalist society in which there is one Conglomerate that, due to its size, dominates over a variety of smaller economic interests.

In short, it is not the kind of entity that the United Nations would consider a state with which it can conduct diplomacy.
The United Nations has dealt with enough countries that aren't nation-states in its history to understand that diplomacy with these entities can sometimes be absurdly pointless or frustrating.

[Dansha]

What kind of imports does the UNS even have?

[Plzen]

What kind of imports does the UNS even have?

Items of cultural and historical significance. Certain types of advanced consumer technology. Small quantities of nanobots.

But those are all secondary, unimportant things. The main imports of the UNS is that we will gladly buy up every scrap of trans-newtonian elements that we can get our hands on, since they are used in just about every high-tech industry within the United Nations, and even strip-mining 30,000 star systems isn't giving us enough...

The Credit Stamp Duty does tend to suppress trade, though, so our trade volume isn't as large as it normally should be.

[Dansha]

What kind of imports does the UNS even have?

Items of cultural and historical significance. Certain types of advanced consumer technology. Small quantities of nanobots.

But those are all secondary, unimportant things. The main imports of the UNS is that we will gladly buy up every scrap of trans-newtonian elements that we can get our hands on, since they are used in just about every high-tech industry within the United Nations, and even strip-mining 30,000 star systems isn't giving us enough...

The Credit Stamp Duty does tend to suppress trade, though, so our trade volume isn't as large as it normally should be.

Huh. Interesting.

[Plzen]

Items of cultural and historical significance. Certain types of advanced consumer technology. Small quantities of nanobots.

But those are all secondary, unimportant things. The main imports of the UNS is that we will gladly buy up every scrap of trans-newtonian elements that we can get our hands on, since they are used in just about every high-tech industry within the United Nations, and even strip-mining 30,000 star systems isn't giving us enough...

The Credit Stamp Duty does tend to suppress trade, though, so our trade volume isn't as large as it normally should be.

Huh. Interesting.

I mean, how are we supposed to build 700-inch 3D holovisors-supercomputers to sell back on Earth when we don't have Corbomite or Boronide?

And how are we supposed to keep the teeming masses on Earth content without 700-inch 3D holovisor-supercomputers that they can spend their evenings watching?

Yeah. Those minerals are a big, big import of ours.

[The V O I D]

How come you don't recognize it? It technically is a form of government.

The UNS does recognise it as a country. The United Nations, however, does not recognise the Conglomerate as a state. Key difference.

Unless I'm mistaken (and please tell me if I am), you have essentially described an Anarcho-Capitalist society in which there is one Conglomerate that, due to its size, dominates over a variety of smaller economic interests.

In short, it is not the kind of entity that the United Nations would consider a state with which it can conduct diplomacy.
The United Nations has dealt with enough countries that aren't nation-states in its history to understand that diplomacy with these entities can sometimes be absurdly pointless or frustrating.

The Conglomerate isn't anarcho-capitalist. It isn't anarchy. The State is formed up of the largest and most powerful corporations, who elect their CEOs via their individual Boards into a greater Board of Directors. The Board are the legislature, executive and judiciary. The Board can be negotiated with by smaller corporations, other companies, etc. throughout the nation to help legislate. It's more of an economic oligarchy where all the people in power / government happen to also control the biggest corporate entities, and are kept super-anonymous, even to their own people for extremely high security reasons. The Board is completely anonymous; it is even double-blindly elected into power by the Boards of the various Corporations. Currently, the Board has 11 members because there are 11 major corporations throughout the nation. However, sometimes there are only a few, and the Board can be three people. Rarely, there is only a single Director wherein the Conglomerate has only one major corporate power, though this is excruciatingly rare.

tl;dr it's an oligarchy where the governmental / dictatorial leaders also happen to control the major corporations by virtue of being their CEOs.

[Plzen]

The State is formed up of the largest and most powerful corporations, who elect their CEOs via their individual Boards into a greater Board of Directors. The Board are the legislature, executive and judiciary. The Board can be negotiated with by smaller corporations, other companies, etc.

That... is exactly what Anarcho-Capitalism is. A privatised government that exists by and derives its legitimacy from the virtue of its economic activities.

[Veroxia]

The State is formed up of the largest and most powerful corporations, who elect their CEOs via their individual Boards into a greater Board of Directors. The Board are the legislature, executive and judiciary. The Board can be negotiated with by smaller corporations, other companies, etc.

That... is exactly what Anarcho-Capitalism is. A privatised government that exists by and derives its legitimacy from the virtue of its economic activities.

Plzen, would you be interested in interacting with the Korosians? Perhaps start diplomatic relations or other forms of partnership?

[The V O I D]

The State is formed up of the largest and most powerful corporations, who elect their CEOs via their individual Boards into a greater Board of Directors. The Board are the legislature, executive and judiciary. The Board can be negotiated with by smaller corporations, other companies, etc.

That... is exactly what Anarcho-Capitalism is. A privatised government that exists by and derives its legitimacy from the virtue of its economic activities.

No, that is what corporatocracy is.

Let's look at the difference:

Anarcho-Capitalist: Anarcho-capitalism is a political philosophy that advocates the elimination of the state in favor of individual sovereignty, private property, and free markets. Anarcho-capitalists believe that in the absence of statute (law by decree or legislation), society would improve itself through the discipline of the free market (or what its proponents describe as a "voluntary society").

Corporatocracy: Corporatocracy is a term used to refer to an economic and political system controlled by corporations and/or corporate interests.

Corporatocracy is a state that could be dictatorial, as the Conglomerate is by virtue of having an oligarchic directorial system in place, as well as allowing individual Corporations to govern their own systems/planets as long as they answer to the Conglomerate Board as well as the Conglomerate overall.

Anarcho-Capitalism has no state, no law, etc. Everything is private to the point where there is no centralized government of any sort, and no real 'society'. Everything is private, sovereign, etc. It is basically what the Conglomerate would be if there was no Board of Directors centralizing it all.

[Plzen]

That... is exactly what Anarcho-Capitalism is. A privatised government that exists by and derives its legitimacy from the virtue of its economic activities.

Plzen, would you be interested in interacting with the Korosians? Perhaps start diplomatic relations or other forms of partnership?

Perhaps. What exactly is your proposal?

-snip-

Interesting. So you do have a state, and not just a corporation-government.

Still, the point stands. The ruling body of the Conglomerate is still more likely to be viewed as a corporate entity than a nation-state, considering its structure and primary activities.

The legal status of the Conglomerate as far as the United Nations is concerned is going to be some kind of a nationless juristic person. After all, corporations within the UNS also sometimes employ private security, internal bureaucracy, and all those things that are normally reserved for states.

After all, the only thing that really separates an autonomous private organisation from a nation-state is legitimacy, the source and extent of.

[The V O I D]

Plzen, would you be interested in interacting with the Korosians? Perhaps start diplomatic relations or other forms of partnership?

Perhaps. What exactly is your proposal?

-snip-

Interesting. So you do have a state, and not just a corporation-government.

Still, the point stands. The ruling body of the Conglomerate is still more likely to be viewed as a corporate entity than a nation-state, considering its structure and primary activities.

The legal status of the Conglomerate as far as the United Nations is concerned is going to be some kind of a nationless juristic person. After all, corporations within the UNS also sometimes employ private security, internal bureaucracy, and all those things that are normally reserved for states.

It's a state, that just so happens to basically be controlled by corporations and corporate interests in a more direct manner.

I see; still, though, the Conglomerate might take offense to your disacknowledgement.

[Plzen]

It's a state, that just so happens to basically be controlled by corporations and corporate interests in a more direct manner.

I see; still, though, the Conglomerate might take offense to your disacknowledgement.

Heh. The current Liberal administration is relatively friendly to corporations, but "relatively" is a pretty important word.

Now, I plan on going down the same route with my 36th General Elections as I did on the first IC thread. That means a solid victory for the Social Democrats. So you can expect whatever conveniences you currently have in the UNS to start disappearing very quickly after the next elections.

[The V O I D]

It's a state, that just so happens to basically be controlled by corporations and corporate interests in a more direct manner.

I see; still, though, the Conglomerate might take offense to your disacknowledgement.

Heh. The current Liberal administration is relatively friendly to corporations, but "relatively" is a pretty important word.

Now, I plan on going down the same route with my 36th General Elections as I did on the first IC thread. That means a solid victory for the Social Democrats. So you can expect whatever conveniences you currently have in the UNS to start disappearing very quickly after the next elections.

I bet that the various corporations from the Conglomerate operating within the UNS are going to all use the most amount of money they legally can to try and fund the Liberal campaign, just to ensure the Social Democrats have to fight for every piece of convenience they wish to take away from the Conglomerate.

[Veroxia]

Plzen, would you be interested in interacting with the Korosians? Perhaps start diplomatic relations or other forms of partnership?

Perhaps. What exactly is your proposal?

• Establishing an embassy in the UNS, in exchange with allowing the UNS to do the same.
• Establishment of trade routes; with our exports possibly ranging from certain metals, radioactive material, etc. In exchange for other valuable elements such as magnesium or other valuable resource.
• Possible establishment of a non-aggression treaty, or other specialized treaty regarding our armed forces.

[Plzen]

Heh. The current Liberal administration is relatively friendly to corporations, but "relatively" is a pretty important word.

Now, I plan on going down the same route with my 36th General Elections as I did on the first IC thread. That means a solid victory for the Social Democrats. So you can expect whatever conveniences you currently have in the UNS to start disappearing very quickly after the next elections.

I bet that the various corporations from the Conglomerate operating within the UNS are going to all use the most amount of money they legally can to try and fund the Liberal campaign, just to ensure the Social Democrats have to fight for every piece of convenience they wish to take away from the Conglomerate.

Correct. Practically every major corporation in the United Nations of Sol sends as much donations as is legally possible to the Liberal Party. Some - mostly military subcontractors and construction companies - support the Charterists instead.

The corporations are not a very powerful force in UNS politics, though. The Liberal Party primarily derives its support from rimworld individualists that wants to see regulations on controlled substances and weapons loosened, and the cultural conservatives that opposes the Social Democrats' policy of encouraging emigration from Sol System.

[Plzen]

Perhaps. What exactly is your proposal?

• Establishing an embassy in the UNS, in exchange with allowing the UNS to do the same.
• Establishment of trade routes; with our exports possibly ranging from certain metals, radioactive material, etc. In exchange for other valuable elements such as magnesium or other valuable resource.
• Possible establishment of a non-aggression treaty, or other specialized treaty regarding our armed forces.

Sounds good to me.

[The V O I D]

I bet that the various corporations from the Conglomerate operating within the UNS are going to all use the most amount of money they legally can to try and fund the Liberal campaign, just to ensure the Social Democrats have to fight for every piece of convenience they wish to take away from the Conglomerate.

Correct. Practically every major corporation in the United Nations of Sol sends as much donations as is legally possible to the Liberal Party. Some - mostly military subcontractors and construction companies - support the Charterists instead.

The corporations are not a very powerful force in UNS politics, though. The Liberal Party primarily derives its support from rimworld individualists that wants to see regulations on controlled substances and weapons loosened, and the cultural conservatives that opposes the Social Democrats' policy of encouraging emigration from Sol System.

So, yeah. Sounds like the Charterists, Social Democrats and Liberals are all going to be fighting for every single law they want passed because they'll be roughly equal in power. Liberals will oppose some, maybe more than some, of the anti-corporate laws; as will the Charterists because they get their support from military corporations and such. The Social Democrats will oppose some of the Charterist and Liberal laws. It's going to be interesting to see how the UNS works with that.

Meanwhile, the Conglomerate only needs 6 of the 11 of its Board members to agree on something to get it done, and there will be no opposition or anyone to stop them. Far more efficient.

[Plzen]

So, yeah. Sounds like the Charterists, Social Democrats and Liberals are all going to be fighting for every single law they want passed because they'll be roughly equal in power.

It is extremely rare for one party to gain a majority of seats in the United Nations General Assembly, because not only are the three main parties relatively evenly matched, they also have to split the votes with a variety of small parties. The last time it happened was almost a hundred years ago.

More likely, a government is formed either by two of the main parties deciding to co-operate, or the largest of the three main parties allying with a bunch of the minor parties.

Generally, though, the political chaos is limited to the few months between the election and the new government taking power. Once a coalition government forms, it usually lasts until the next elections.

[The V O I D]

So, yeah. Sounds like the Charterists, Social Democrats and Liberals are all going to be fighting for every single law they want passed because they'll be roughly equal in power.

It is extremely rare for one party to gain a majority of seats in the United Nations General Assembly, because not only are the three main parties relatively evenly matched, they also have to split the votes with a variety of small parties. The last time it happened was almost a hundred years ago.

More likely, a government is formed either by two of the main parties deciding to co-operate, or the largest of the three main parties allying with a bunch of the minor parties.

Yeah. That might happen. I feel like if anyone's going to ally, it's going to be the Liberals and Charterists; or, perhaps, but unlikely, the Liberals and the Social Democrats.

Go one way, and you're slowly leaning toward a pro-corporate, pro-military government that wants to grow in military and corporate/economic strength. Go the other, and you're neutral towards corporations, leaning anti-corporate, and you're expansionist due to encouraging emigration to outer systems and colonization outward.

[Plzen]

Yeah. That might happen. I feel like if anyone's going to ally, it's going to be the Liberals and Charterists; or, perhaps, but unlikely, the Liberals and the Social Democrats.

Go one way, and you're slowly leaning toward a pro-corporate, pro-military government that wants to grow in military and corporate/economic strength. Go the other, and you're neutral towards corporations, leaning anti-corporate, and you're expansionist due to encouraging emigration to outer systems and colonization outward.

The Social Democrats and the Charterists are also a reasonable coalition government. They share a common belief in humanity's destiny to spread out into the empty space that currently fills the galaxy, to establish a greater humanity.

The primary difference there is that the Charterists consider systems infested with filthy xenos to be "empty space," whereas the Social Democrats are more inclined to co-operate with the extraterrestrial civilisations also striving to reach their respective destinies.

[Taigawa]

So a few things:

Would anyone mind me including their race/Empire/whatever into my Races history, concerning the Fall of the Race?

Does anyone want a group of Mercenary Psionics to be on their side in the IC?

Would it be alright if my race had once been equivalent to an Ancient Empire, before their Fall?

You an inc-lude mine if you wish.