1870 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][Discussion]

[Stadenwick]

Maybe...but since I won't take any ex-russian land, my only means of expansion is either south (to Tehran!) or east to Siberia.


whut?

It's a play on the Roman oratorical phrase, Carhago delenda est, firstly said by Cato the Elder in the Roman Senate.

Carthago delenda est means : Carthage must be destroyed, so Perm delenda est would mean:

Perm must be destroyed.

Рим умрет

[Togeria]

That's a smart move as Karina is our Queen and will likely be more willing to side with Roman's with him as the Duke.

Taurica was a Roman satellite state filled with Roman military bases anyway. I'm just going to formally impose the Roman control over it.

I don't care. Cause that's not my point. I'm saying we share royal family of the former dynasty having royal positions in our borders.

[Tracian Empire]

Taurica was a Roman satellite state filled with Roman military bases anyway. I'm just going to formally impose the Roman control over it.

I don't care. Cause that's not my point. I'm saying we share royal family of the former dynasty having royal positions in our borders.

Ah, not the Russian prince. If you let him remain in Constantinople, I'm going to use him for my puppet Orthodox Russian anti-Perm state.

But Taurica was initially the Principality of Taurica, a Roman vassal state, led by Prince Alexios XII. I'm going to formally annex Taurica and make him the Dux, the military commander of the province, while the Roman Senate will elect a Proconsul.

[Stadenwick]

Taurica was a Roman satellite state filled with Roman military bases anyway. I'm just going to formally impose the Roman control over it.

I don't care. Cause that's not my point. I'm saying we share royal family of the former dynasty having royal positions in our borders.

Ugh...Another King and Queen pretending to be able to lead the peasantry in this world, leading the sheeps of the lord to hell instead Heaven. Perm will have to see priest in slavia to take the power for themselves.

[Tracian Empire]

It's a play on the Roman oratorical phrase, Carhago delenda est, firstly said by Cato the Elder in the Roman Senate.

Carthago delenda est means : Carthage must be destroyed, so Perm delenda est would mean:

Perm must be destroyed.

Рим умрет

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

It's a play on the Roman oratorical phrase, Carhago delenda est, firstly said by Cato the Elder in the Roman Senate.

Carthago delenda est means : Carthage must be destroyed, so Perm delenda est would mean:

Perm must be destroyed.

Рим умрет

Eim umret

cyka

[Stadenwick]

Рим умрет

[Togeria]

I don't care. Cause that's not my point. I'm saying we share royal family of the former dynasty having royal positions in our borders.

Ugh...Another King and Queen pretending to be able to lead the peasantry in this world, leading the sheeps of the lord to hell instead Heaven. Perm will have to see priest in slavia to take the power for themselves.

I will outright ban the church and replace all of them with those led by Roman priest.

[Stadenwick]

Рим умрет

Eim umret

cyka

Rush Cykantinople byat!

[Stadenwick]

Ugh...Another King and Queen pretending to be able to lead the peasantry in this world, leading the sheeps of the lord to hell instead Heaven. Perm will have to see priest in slavia to take the power for themselves.

I will outright ban the church and replace all of them with those led by Roman priest.

You do realize that there's quite a big fringe population of Perm believer right? Also, a strong Orthodox slavic state in the east, I don't know how Hansa would react, nor Christendom for Polish Catholic, nor Courland who really claiming that Poland-Lithuanian crown

[Tracian Empire]

I will outright ban the church and replace all of them with those led by Roman priest.

You do realize that there's quite a big fringe population of Perm believer right? Also, a strong Orthodox slavic state in the east, I don't know how Hansa would react, nor Christendom for Polish Catholic, nor Courland who really claiming that Poland-Lithuanian crown

Once Rome starts its religious push, the heretics shall be pushed back to Siberia.

[Togeria]

I will outright ban the church and replace all of them with those led by Roman priest.

You do realize that there's quite a big fringe population of Perm believer right? Also, a strong Orthodox slavic state in the east, I don't know how Hansa would react, nor Christendom for Polish Catholic, nor Courland who really claiming that Poland-Lithuanian crown

Orthodox believes are split between the nation of either: Roman believes, Perm, or those laid down by the previous Tsar. Further, the nation is strongly secular and doesn't allow any religious majority to gain power in the country because of this. Lastly, our current monarch wouldn't look highly upon the church of Perm and a good portion of the people who supported the efforts of the previous monarchy and would be glad for church of Perm to be removed. And with Karina as true monarch any replication of what was done in Russia in the commonwealth would be seen as treason and the church banned.

[Tracian Empire]

You do realize that there's quite a big fringe population of Perm believer right? Also, a strong Orthodox slavic state in the east, I don't know how Hansa would react, nor Christendom for Polish Catholic, nor Courland who really claiming that Poland-Lithuanian crown

Orthodox believes are split between the nation of either: Roman believes, Perm, or those laid down by the previous Tsar. Further, the nation is strongly secular and doesn't allow any religious majority to gain power in the country because of this. Lastly, our current monarch wouldn't look highly upon the church of Perm and a good portion of the people who supported the efforts of the previous monarchy and would be glad for church of Perm to be removed. And with Karina as true monarch any replication of what was done in Russia in the commonwealth would be seen as treason and the church banned.

Would you want the Council in Nicaea to have created an Orthodox Church for all of the non-Perm believers of the Commonwealth, or will you let me go the true Orthodox route and make a Church for each of the populations, like it is in real life?

[Stadenwick]

You do realize that there's quite a big fringe population of Perm believer right? Also, a strong Orthodox slavic state in the east, I don't know how Hansa would react, nor Christendom for Polish Catholic, nor Courland who really claiming that Poland-Lithuanian crown

Once Rome starts its religious push, the heretics shall be pushed back to Siberia.

Nyet, for the Bear we trust.

You do realize that there's quite a big fringe population of Perm believer right? Also, a strong Orthodox slavic state in the east, I don't know how Hansa would react, nor Christendom for Polish Catholic, nor Courland who really claiming that Poland-Lithuanian crown

Orthodox believes are split between the nation of either: Roman believes, Perm, or those laid down by the previous Tsar. Further, the nation is strongly secular and doesn't allow any religious majority to gain power in the country because of this. Lastly, our current monarch wouldn't look highly upon the church of Perm and a good portion of the people who supported the efforts of the previous monarchy and would be glad for church of Perm to be removed. And with Karina as true monarch any replication of what was done in Russia in the commonwealth would be seen as treason and the church banned.

Um, no. The faith that was laid down was Russian Orthodox, the kind that in the end turn to Perm Orthodoxy instead. Also do you think banning the church of the religion that just thrown the empire your country popped out from is a good idea?, the fringe will get bigger and violent if you call them traitor, as the division from any false Orthodoxy country considered holy and just thing by Perm faith.

I mean the whole Perm name come from the separation from "Orthodox" Russia.

[Togeria]

I don't care. Cause that's not my point. I'm saying we share royal family of the former dynasty having royal positions in our borders.

Ah, not the Russian prince. If you let him remain in Constantinople, I'm going to use him for my puppet Orthodox Russian anti-Perm state.

But Taurica was initially the Principality of Taurica, a Roman vassal state, led by Prince Alexios XII. I'm going to formally annex Taurica and make him the Dux, the military commander of the province, while the Roman Senate will elect a Proconsul.

I mean with the Russian Prince depending on if it was her actual husband as I saw it was a prince who married her, the Roman state would have greater leverage.

[Old Tyrannia]

Le App, hopefully not taking anything already taken.

Full Nation Name: El Consenso de Perú (Translated: The Peruvian Consensus)
Flag: Consensus Flag.
Majority/Official Culture: Peruvian.
Territorial Core : The golden-brown color in South America. Basically, what's left of South America and stuff.
Territorial Claim : N/A.
Capital City: Lima District / Lima, Peru.
Population: 20 Million-ish?

Government Type : Consensus Directorial Parliamentary Republic.
Government Ideology/Policies : Extremely democratic/republican, semi-isolationist, pro-diplomacy.
Government Focus : Economics/trade. The Consensus does not like the idea of being conquered or going to war.
Head of State: The Directorate Council: Director Adolfo Bello, Director Agustin Benitez, Director Alejandro Bolivar, Director Alexandre Bosque, and Director Benito Castell. All equally powerful / all powers of head of state/head of government given to each.
Head of Government : See above.
Government Description : The government answers directly to the people. Censuses are taken by the Supreme Parliament every 5 years to determine if they have support from the people; parties and opinions/policies are adjusted to fit majority consensus. Representatives from every political party are given numbers of seats in Parliament based upon majority ruling, with minor parties having less seats than the majority party. The Directorate Council [members called 'Directors'] are all heads of state/heads of government. Candidates are selected by their party and representatives in Parliament, and then elected by the people. The Directorate Council is formed up of five people, all with equal power. The Grand Court's justices/judges are elected directly by the Parliament as well, having eleven members. This is all to ensure the government cannot be corrupt and is responding to the people's will. The Directorate, nor the Supreme Parliament, nor the Grand Court can remove any power from the people or change the constitution via amendment without consent from the people.

Majority/State Religion : None/Secular Stance.
Religious Description : N/A.

Economic Ideologies : Internally/Locally: Somewhat of a mixed economics approach. Internationally/Abroad: Laissez-faire trade economics.
Major Production: Agricultural goods, rare metals [silver, gold, etc.]
Economic Description: Somewhat self-explanatory.

Army Strength: Efficient, well-trained.
Army Weakness: Small numbers, averagely equipped.
Naval Strength: Durable, large ships.
Naval Weakness: Small arms.
Further Military Description: The Consensus would rather solve problems without war if possible.

National Goals: Achieve highest economic status possible.
National Issues: The Consensus would like to have a stronger military for defense purposes.
National Figures of Interest: N/A.
National Ambition/Aspirations: Expand military, prevent self from being conquered.

History :

• Colony Established: The Peruvian Colony and its territories are established by a foreign country.
• 1795: The Colony liberates itself and unifies. The Peruvian Republic is established.
• 1820: Corruption and such in government causes the Republic to become too tyrannical. Uprisings and civil wars break out.
• 1840: After twenty years of fighting, the Republic falls. The Peruvian Consensus is established to replace it, and is set up to prevent any corruption from happening again.
• Modern Day: The Peruvian Consensus has been flourishing economically.

Comparison Points – Political : 4.
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious : 2.
Comparison Points – Economy : 3.
Comparison Points – Military : 1.
Total Comparison Points used: 10/10

Guidance Name: Radical Liberalism Strikes!
Guidance Description : In the Peruvian Republic, after it became so corrupt and dictatorial, the people were fed up with the idea of a republic being so corruptible; but they didn't want an all powerful government either, nor one which would rule over them so badly. Thus, because of the spread of democratic ideals and radicals radicalizing them further and further, the idea of the Consensus was born.

After the Peruvian Civil War ended, and the Consensus was established, it was extremely radically liberal by the day's standards. No one wanted any possibility of any level of corruption. Even women were allowed to vote, as well as some of the more populous minorities, to some minor extents in local elections. However, none have run for office - whether because this is disallowed or they won't win is unknown. And no elections have occurred for them at the national level, yet. They do participate in censuses, however.
Affected Area: Just my nation, but the ideals of the Consensus might spread to those who trade with it.

I'm not sure how this claim could work in the absence of a Spanish colonial empire in our history.

[Togeria]

Orthodox believes are split between the nation of either: Roman believes, Perm, or those laid down by the previous Tsar. Further, the nation is strongly secular and doesn't allow any religious majority to gain power in the country because of this. Lastly, our current monarch wouldn't look highly upon the church of Perm and a good portion of the people who supported the efforts of the previous monarchy and would be glad for church of Perm to be removed. And with Karina as true monarch any replication of what was done in Russia in the commonwealth would be seen as treason and the church banned.

Would you want the Council in Nicaea to have created an Orthodox Church for all of the non-Perm believers of the Commonwealth, or will you let me go the true Orthodox route and make a Church for each of the populations, like it is in real life?

Church of Nicea?

[Tracian Empire]

Ah, not the Russian prince. If you let him remain in Constantinople, I'm going to use him for my puppet Orthodox Russian anti-Perm state.

But Taurica was initially the Principality of Taurica, a Roman vassal state, led by Prince Alexios XII. I'm going to formally annex Taurica and make him the Dux, the military commander of the province, while the Roman Senate will elect a Proconsul.

I mean with the Russian Prince depending on if it was her actual husband as I saw it was a prince who married her, the Roman state would have greater leverage.

Yeah, the last Tsar, the one who married your queen, had a few children, as far as I can remember. One of them, a so called Prince Vasily, was visiting Constantinople at the end of the last roleplay. Meaning that, if the civil war started after that, there is a high chance that he would have remained there.

But I can't place a Slavic Prince as the ruler of something not Slavic.

And the house of Taurica is a cadet branch of the Palaeologos, so I'm going to integrate them in.

[Tracian Empire]

Would you want the Council in Nicaea to have created an Orthodox Church for all of the non-Perm believers of the Commonwealth, or will you let me go the true Orthodox route and make a Church for each of the populations, like it is in real life?

Church of Nicea?

The Emperor will have called for a Holy Synod of the Orthodox Church in Nicaea somewhere before the start of the IC, declaring the Church of Perm heretic, and so on. Among the decisions of the Holy Synod will be the religious reorganization of the Russian Orthodox Church. A new Russian Patriarch will be named to oppose Perm, and so on.

But, I could also "liberate" the churches of the Slavs from Moscow, as an example, by recreating the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

And by Church and Churches ,beginning with capital letters, I'm talking about the organizations.

Orthodoxy can be confusing , I know.

[Stadenwick]

I mean with the Russian Prince depending on if it was her actual husband as I saw it was a prince who married her, the Roman state would have greater leverage.

Yeah, the last Tsar, the one who married your queen, had a few children, as far as I can remember. One of them, a so called Prince Vasily, was visiting Constantinople at the end of the last roleplay. Meaning that, if the civil war started after that, there is a high chance that he would have remained there.

But I can't place a Slavic Prince as the ruler of something not Slavic.

And the house of Taurica is a cadet branch of the Palaeologos, so I'm going to integrate them in.

It's more likely he recalled in attempt to calm the tension between Noble and Priest imo

[Togeria]

Once Rome starts its religious push, the heretics shall be pushed back to Siberia.

Nyet, for the Bear we trust.

Orthodox believes are split between the nation of either: Roman believes, Perm, or those laid down by the previous Tsar. Further, the nation is strongly secular and doesn't allow any religious majority to gain power in the country because of this. Lastly, our current monarch wouldn't look highly upon the church of Perm and a good portion of the people who supported the efforts of the previous monarchy and would be glad for church of Perm to be removed. And with Karina as true monarch any replication of what was done in Russia in the commonwealth would be seen as treason and the church banned.

Um, no. The faith that was laid down was Russian Orthodox, the kind that in the end turn to Perm Orthodoxy instead. Also do you think banning the church of the religion that just thrown the empire your country popped out from is a good idea?, the fringe will get bigger and violent if you call them traitor, as the division from any false Orthodoxy country considered holy and just thing by Perm faith.

I mean the whole Perm name come from the separation from "Orthodox" Russia.

And as the faith becomes more fringe it'll affirm the belief of Karina and many in government that Perm Orthodoxy wants cause disorder and civil strife. Like half the Commonwealth and most of the most populated cities in the Commonwealth aren't Orthodox, but Catholic, and are most likely to subscribe to the believes of those laid down in Italy. This would cause one of three choices:
1. Potential collapse
2. Creating a new Orthodox Church to push out the Perm
3. Countering Orthodoxy all together by becoming more secular and/or spreading Catholicism.

[Tracian Empire]

Yeah, the last Tsar, the one who married your queen, had a few children, as far as I can remember. One of them, a so called Prince Vasily, was visiting Constantinople at the end of the last roleplay. Meaning that, if the civil war started after that, there is a high chance that he would have remained there.

But I can't place a Slavic Prince as the ruler of something not Slavic.

And the house of Taurica is a cadet branch of the Palaeologos, so I'm going to integrate them in.

It's more likely he recalled in attempt to calm the tension between Noble and Priest imo

Who said that Rome would let him go?

[Togeria]

I mean with the Russian Prince depending on if it was her actual husband as I saw it was a prince who married her, the Roman state would have greater leverage.

Yeah, the last Tsar, the one who married your queen, had a few children, as far as I can remember. One of them, a so called Prince Vasily, was visiting Constantinople at the end of the last roleplay. Meaning that, if the civil war started after that, there is a high chance that he would have remained there.

But I can't place a Slavic Prince as the ruler of something not Slavic.

And the house of Taurica is a cadet branch of the Palaeologos, so I'm going to integrate them in.

Vasiyl is actually Karina's husband.

[Stadenwick]

Nyet, for the Bear we trust.


Um, no. The faith that was laid down was Russian Orthodox, the kind that in the end turn to Perm Orthodoxy instead. Also do you think banning the church of the religion that just thrown the empire your country popped out from is a good idea?, the fringe will get bigger and violent if you call them traitor, as the division from any false Orthodoxy country considered holy and just thing by Perm faith.

I mean the whole Perm name come from the separation from "Orthodox" Russia.

And as the faith becomes more fringe it'll affirm the belief of Karina and many in government that Perm Orthodoxy wants cause disorder and civil strife. Like half the Commonwealth and most of the most populated cities in the Commonwealth aren't Orthodox, but Catholic, and are most likely to subscribe to the believes of those laid down in Italy. This would cause one of three choices:
1. Potential collapse
2. Creating a new Orthodox Church to push out the Perm
3. Countering Orthodoxy all together by becoming more secular and/or spreading Catholicism.

Well it's hard not to when you close their churches Holy Church of Perm (the state) itself won't do anything but condemn the action Karina that claim to be secular but banning one religion because it didn't sit well with their monarchy, a horrendous blot of despotism.

There's actually fourth choices, in which Perm believer split from the Commonwealth in favor to create their own state. This is what the Holy Church wants instead total collapse of another state.

[Stadenwick]

It's more likely he recalled in attempt to calm the tension between Noble and Priest imo

Who said that Rome would let him go?

The Tsar himself, I think. He did try to be neutral like Justinian during the split, and much prefer to call his own son home to prevent civil war between nobles and priest in his country.