1870 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][Discussion]

[The V O I D]

I mean, you said the Novogrod civil war might interfere, so I figured the Germans, Byzantines and Italians would screw Novgorod out of a good deal because of it - regardless of their participation.

R O M A N S
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Romans: screwing everyone else over since 27 BC.

I mean, you said the Novogrod civil war might interfere, so I figured the Germans, Byzantines and Italians would screw Novgorod out of a good deal because of it - regardless of their participation.

I'd rather take Lombardy than Hungary if you catch my meaning.

Over my dead body. I will gladly take all German clay for a Holy Roman Empire-esque feel.

Come at me bruh.

If Germany and Rome are enemies, it will put Novgorod in a tight place, considering the deep cultural/trade affiliations with both empires.

I mean, you said the Novogrod civil war might interfere, so I figured the Germans, Byzantines and Italians would screw Novgorod out of a good deal because of it - regardless of their participation.

There's no way Novgorod is letting anyone take Ukraine in this situation. But then again this situation is practically an impossibility...

Yes, Novgorod will be in a tight spot.

And, well, I mean... I guess it depends on if your civil war happens during the war with the Huns.

[Second Helghan Empire]

Helghan, for my AH, I need Novgorod to have had the same relations with the German states during the Middle Ages, if not better. Is that ok with you?

I am sure they would have had some dealings, I am having Teutonic order mean something completely different than it did, I typed up a preliminary app with around two and a half pages of history and lost the whole damn thing, but yeah as long as a small Teutonic Christian Minority exists as a result we could largely have had a friendly past, as my focus would have been my other borders as Germania is not catholic and hasn't been nearly as long as Trasce's rome hasn't

[Western Imperial Union]

Okay people chill.

1. I will be largely orthodox christian
2. Stop plotting on me dammit

[Sanabel]

Helghan, for my AH, I need Novgorod to have had the same relations with the German states during the Middle Ages, if not better. Is that ok with you?

I am sure they would have had some dealings, I am having Teutonic order mean something completely different than it did, I typed up a preliminary app with around two and a half pages of history and lost the whole damn thing, but yeah as long as a small Teutonic Christian Minority exists as a result we could largely have had a friendly past, as my focus would have been my other borders as Germania is not catholic and hasn't been nearly as long as Trasce's rome hasn't

Well, that's part of it. Historically, Novgorod had a substantial German merchant class in the city, and opened up a bit of its land to settlement by Germans. This likely would've expanded in the Novgorodian Far East leaving a small yet important German minority.

[Sanabel]

Interesting how nearly everyone is Orthodox.

[Second Helghan Empire]

I am sure they would have had some dealings, I am having Teutonic order mean something completely different than it did, I typed up a preliminary app with around two and a half pages of history and lost the whole damn thing, but yeah as long as a small Teutonic Christian Minority exists as a result we could largely have had a friendly past, as my focus would have been my other borders as Germania is not catholic and hasn't been nearly as long as Trasce's rome hasn't

Well, that's part of it. Historically, Novgorod had a substantial German merchant class in the city, and opened up a bit of its land to settlement by Germans. This likely would've expanded in the Novgorodian Far East leaving a small yet important German minority.

I am very into that. No problems from my front.

[The V O I D]

Okay people chill.

1. I will be largely orthodox christian
2. Stop plotting on me dammit

The Huns are barbarians. The Holy Alliance of Christendom shall bring the Lord's light unto them and teach them to not be barbarians.

[Second Helghan Empire]

Interesting how nearly everyone is Orthodox.

Haha, Well I think just you three eastern Europe boys are. I am Teuton, Italy is catholic and I have no clue on the rest. Though if Ik brings his persia back as it was, then he will be Zoastrian

[Western Imperial Union]

Okay people chill.

1. I will be largely orthodox christian
2. Stop plotting on me dammit

The Huns are barbarians. The Holy Alliance of Christendom shall bring the Lord's light unto them and teach them to not be barbarians.

No they civilized along with the rest of europe... that's like saying helghan germany are barbarians.

[The V O I D]

The Huns are barbarians. The Holy Alliance of Christendom shall bring the Lord's light unto them and teach them to not be barbarians.

No they civilized along with the rest of europe... that's like saying helghan germany are barbarians.

...Then the HAC has a goal of helping Germany get more clay and making all Roman/Italian lands into Roman/Italian lands again.

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

Interesting how nearly everyone is Orthodox.

Haha, Well I think just you three eastern Europe boys are. I am Teuton, Italy is catholic and I have no clue on the rest. Though if Ik brings her persia back as it was, then he will be Zoroastrian

It also has Zunism and Hinduism as co-official recognized religions, with various pagan faiths considered accepted, and basically exclusively Nestorianism in the way of Christianity as accepted. Judaism, in keeping with Persian tradition, is welcomed.

[Sanabel]

Well, that's part of it. Historically, Novgorod had a substantial German merchant class in the city, and opened up a bit of its land to settlement by Germans. This likely would've expanded in the Novgorodian Far East leaving a small yet important German minority.

I am very into that. No problems from my front.

Good. The German settlers will come in handy in Russian Chagatay(Xinjiang).

[Sanabel]

I may have Novgorod be fairly neutral internationally, similarly to how the Republic was in its hayday IRL.

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

I am very into that. No problems from my front.

Good. The German settlers will come in handy in Russian Chagatay(Xinjiang).

"What did the natives call this place before the damned Turks got here?"

"Ytarimystan"

"SUN CRUSADE INBOUND"

[Sanabel]

Good. The German settlers will come in handy in Russian Chagatay(Xinjiang).

"What did the natives call this place before the damned Turks got here?"

"Ytarimystan"

"SUN CRUSADE INBOUND"

Oh lord

[Sanabel]

Lol with the claims how they are now, someone could play as Poland-Lithuania.

[Old Tyrannia]

Lol with the claims how they are now, someone could play as Poland-Lithuania.

... AND THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED

[Sanabel]

Lol with the claims how they are now, someone could play as Poland-Lithuania.

... AND THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED

[Zostra]

... AND THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED

Poor Poland, forever mocked for something that didn't happen.

[Old Tyrannia]

... AND THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED

Polish winged hussars were so badass that it wasn't until the invention of tanks that they were finally defeated.

More seriously, the Polish army actually performed very well in the Second World War. They held off the Wehrmacht for far longer than anyone expected despite being outnumbered and outgunned, and inflicted heavy losses on the German forces; the Germans lost an entire armoured division and 25% of their air power in the invasion of Poland.

[Novacom]

That's my fear though, if I do the fun civil war idea everyone will invade from all sides and it will suck.

Dog-piling like that would have repercussions ala events...

As for the map I know it's fun but try not to bandy it about too much I have a version with SOME claims on but nothing official given the simple fact of this, we have no accepted apps yet ergo we technically have no map and people will get bitter very quickly otherwise.

[Rygondria]

I kinda want to change the Dutch nation round a bit, I was thinking either like a timeline where the vikings establish a kingdom in Frsia that evolved the dutch culture into something new. That or something like this place
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marseille#Antiquity Where Celtic and Greek culture melded into one, but that would pose as a oddity since i am not sure Greeks would make it that far north, or i could meld all three together maybe.

A Celtic/Greek culture would probably fit better in France than in the Netherlands, if you wanted to pursue that route. A Viking kingdom in Frisia seems interesting, though.

They are probably going to speak a mixture of norse and Frisian, along with Fleming in the south lands, trying to come up with name for them that sounds Nordic sine a mixture like this will not produce dutch, maybe Wet lander or something like that.

[Sanabel]

Polish winged hussars were so badass that it wasn't until the invention of tanks that they were finally defeated.

More seriously, the Polish army actually performed very well in the Second World War. They held off the Wehrmacht for far longer than anyone expected despite being outnumbered and outgunned, and inflicted heavy losses on the German forces; the Germans lost an entire armoured division and 25% of their air power in the invasion of Poland.

Better than Denmark

[Western Imperial Union]

No they civilized along with the rest of europe... that's like saying helghan germany are barbarians.

...Then the HAC has a goal of helping Germany get more clay and making all Roman/Italian lands into Roman/Italian lands again.

Hmm I cannit find others joining you a reasonable occurence. Maybe byzantines but helghan even said he is more inclined to take my side. With nivgorod going to civil war and myself a willing and happy trade partner to those who wish iy perhaps the tables quickly turn and I take someof your land hmm

[Old Tyrannia]

A Celtic/Greek culture would probably fit better in France than in the Netherlands, if you wanted to pursue that route. A Viking kingdom in Frisia seems interesting, though.

They are probably going to speak a mixture of norse and Frisian, along with Fleming in the south lands, trying to come up with name for them that sounds Nordic sine a mixture like this will not produce dutch, maybe Wet lander or something like that.

Sørland maybe? It means "Southern Land," which would make sense from the point of view of Scandinavian settlers.