The Awesome Pony Rp : Under the Shadow of War (OOC: Sign Up)

[Frenequesta]

Aren't the changeling hives autonomous/independent? Surely, if changelings want their cultural values put into law, they can just go to the countries they rule over where they have no restrictions on being able to practice their historical traditions? Seeing as the changelings have their own nations, with their own lawmaking bodies to represent their cultural values, and that changelings can (presumably) freely return to said nations, I find it highly doubtful that the Equestrian lawmakers would see SSM as being an integral part of "changeling rights." If Celestia proposed an end to the ban on SSM, and changeling culture was her one and only reason for doing so, chances are most MPs wouldn't take her very seriously; if changelings want to practice their culture, they can go to their countries, after all. And wouldn't it be hypocritical for Celestia to support SSM on the grounds of it being a part of changeling culture without simultaneously supporting polygamous marriage on the same grounds?

Besides, Celestia's intervention with regards to SSM isn't necessary anyway; as you can read in Fren's part of the epilogue, the whole of Equestria de-facto recognizes it.

"The district assemblies would deal with education, weather control, healthcare, welfare, criminal law, regulation of intoxicating liquors--basically anything else not explicitly granted to Parliament. As a result, for example, while Equestria itself did not recognize same-sex marriage, every district soon would, and Equestria was obliged to honor that choice."

Again, good points. I guess my among biggest flaws are not thinking things through. Should I just get rid of that LGBT bit? Or did you do that already?

We can compromise a bit here--Celestial can still push the LGBT amendment but have that fail, while recognizing the cities giving the rights anyway.

[The Flutterlands]

Again, good points. I guess my among biggest flaws are not thinking things through. Should I just get rid of that LGBT bit? Or did you do that already?

We can compromise a bit here--Celestial can still push the LGBT amendment but have that fail, while recognizing the cities giving the rights anyway.

Okay. Sounds good...

[Frenequesta]

We can compromise a bit here--Celestial can still push the LGBT amendment but have that fail, while recognizing the cities giving the rights anyway.

Okay. Sounds good...

Even better, she could push for polygamy recognition as well per FRE's points on consistency, and have that part especially be the killer (though that might be too much for Parliament).

[The Flutterlands]

Okay. Sounds good...

Even better, she could push for polygamy recognition as well per FRE's points on consistency, and have that part especially be the killer (though that might be too much for Parliament).

Sure. Polygamy is cultural for changelings as well as practical for their feeding habits which Celestai would recognize from them. However, ponies are not like changelings when it comes to such relationships...

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Even better, she could push for polygamy recognition as well per FRE's points on consistency, and have that part especially be the killer (though that might be too much for Parliament).

That would make sense, I suppose; it would certainly make Celestia look like less of a hypocrite. Ponies definitely wouldn't approve of Celestia trying to force acceptance of polygamous marriage on Equestria (it would probably be seen as a degradation of Equestrian cultural values for the sake of appeasing outlanders), but at least her actions would be consistent.

[Frenequesta]

Everything seems unusually quiet. I've made some edits to the one paragraph to accommodate our last compromise (as usual, changes are in bod):

Princess Celestia felt guilty about the concessions she made to the Temple of Vision and the atrocities committed under it, and insisted on protecting the rights of all species—even changelings. Though she had no formal power in the amendment process, she proposed an amendment that would “maintain the equal protection of personal, civil, political, and social rights of this Constitution as to all species" at the national level, even granting full legalization of same-sex and polygamous marriage as well as protection for the LGBT Community to accommodate Changeling Culture. While Princess Twilight and some deputies, such as Trilby and Blind Justice, supported the measure, many other elites and deputies found Celestia’s efforts to “persuade” Parliament (among them threatening to remove dissenting Senators, propose amendments to expand the Senate, or outright dissolving Parliament) to violate separation of powers on one hoof and dangerous to the compromise necessary to salvage as much as Equestria as possible on the other. Lincolt and Detrot, which had expected to be able to allow public accommodations to discriminate against changelings under the new constitutional amendments, were especially turned off by Celestia’s maneuvers and left the union. (Lincolt, after starting its own independent state, would return in a couple of years due to economic difficulties.) Many were especially perplexed by Celestia’s move for polygamous marriage, believing it to be too alien to Equestrian culture and to potentially exacerbate martial property disputes. Even Princess Twilight became skeptical of the legitimacy of Celestia’s asserted powers, which became fuel for opponents to call for Celestia’s impeachment. Celestia soon backed down from her efforts, agreeing to respect Parliament’s choice. After an impassioned speech by Trilby—the final one of his term—Parliament narrowly agreed to Celestia’s equal protection amendment, realizing that allowing cities to set their own civil rights rules could mean disparate treatment among the pony races as well. But he could not persuade Parliament to adopt the marriage amendments, so marriage remained an issue for the cities. While all cities would eventually recognize same-sex marriage, only Whinnyapolis, with its Crystal Empire ties, would fully legalize polygamous marriage.

Should I just go ahead and post the epilogue? It's high time we organized the new RP.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Everything seems unusually quiet. I've made some edits to the one paragraph to accommodate our last compromise (as usual, changes are in bod):

Princess Celestia felt guilty about the concessions she made to the Temple of Vision and the atrocities committed under it, and insisted on protecting the rights of all species—even changelings. Though she had no formal power in the amendment process, she proposed an amendment that would “maintain the equal protection of personal, civil, political, and social rights of this Constitution as to all species" at the national level, even granting full legalization of same-sex and polygamous marriage as well as protection for the LGBT Community to accommodate Changeling Culture. While Princess Twilight and some deputies, such as Trilby and Blind Justice, supported the measure, many other elites and deputies found Celestia’s efforts to “persuade” Parliament (among them threatening to remove dissenting Senators, propose amendments to expand the Senate, or outright dissolving Parliament) to violate separation of powers on one hoof and dangerous to the compromise necessary to salvage as much as Equestria as possible on the other. Lincolt and Detrot, which had expected to be able to allow public accommodations to discriminate against changelings under the new constitutional amendments, were especially turned off by Celestia’s maneuvers and left the union. (Lincolt, after starting its own independent state, would return in a couple of years due to economic difficulties.) Many were especially perplexed by Celestia’s move for polygamous marriage, believing it to be too alien to Equestrian culture and to potentially exacerbate martial property disputes. Even Princess Twilight became skeptical of the legitimacy of Celestia’s asserted powers, which became fuel for opponents to call for Celestia’s impeachment. Celestia soon backed down from her efforts, agreeing to respect Parliament’s choice. After an impassioned speech by Trilby—the final one of his term—Parliament narrowly agreed to Celestia’s equal protection amendment, realizing that allowing cities to set their own civil rights rules could mean disparate treatment among the pony races as well. But he could not persuade Parliament to adopt the marriage amendments, so marriage remained an issue for the cities. While all cities would eventually recognize same-sex marriage, only Whinnyapolis, with its Crystal Empire ties, would fully legalize polygamous marriage.

Should I just go ahead and post the epilogue? It's high time we organized the new RP.

I agree that it's about time to get on with the new thread; it's been many, many weeks in the making now. The epilogue, in my opinion, is perfectly satisfactory; I have no objections to posting it now and moving things along.

[The Flutterlands]

Everything seems unusually quiet. I've made some edits to the one paragraph to accommodate our last compromise (as usual, changes are in bod):

Princess Celestia felt guilty about the concessions she made to the Temple of Vision and the atrocities committed under it, and insisted on protecting the rights of all species—even changelings. Though she had no formal power in the amendment process, she proposed an amendment that would “maintain the equal protection of personal, civil, political, and social rights of this Constitution as to all species" at the national level, even granting full legalization of same-sex and polygamous marriage as well as protection for the LGBT Community to accommodate Changeling Culture. While Princess Twilight and some deputies, such as Trilby and Blind Justice, supported the measure, many other elites and deputies found Celestia’s efforts to “persuade” Parliament (among them threatening to remove dissenting Senators, propose amendments to expand the Senate, or outright dissolving Parliament) to violate separation of powers on one hoof and dangerous to the compromise necessary to salvage as much as Equestria as possible on the other. Lincolt and Detrot, which had expected to be able to allow public accommodations to discriminate against changelings under the new constitutional amendments, were especially turned off by Celestia’s maneuvers and left the union. (Lincolt, after starting its own independent state, would return in a couple of years due to economic difficulties.) Many were especially perplexed by Celestia’s move for polygamous marriage, believing it to be too alien to Equestrian culture and to potentially exacerbate martial property disputes. Even Princess Twilight became skeptical of the legitimacy of Celestia’s asserted powers, which became fuel for opponents to call for Celestia’s impeachment. Celestia soon backed down from her efforts, agreeing to respect Parliament’s choice. After an impassioned speech by Trilby—the final one of his term—Parliament narrowly agreed to Celestia’s equal protection amendment, realizing that allowing cities to set their own civil rights rules could mean disparate treatment among the pony races as well. But he could not persuade Parliament to adopt the marriage amendments, so marriage remained an issue for the cities. While all cities would eventually recognize same-sex marriage, only Whinnyapolis, with its Crystal Empire ties, would fully legalize polygamous marriage.

Should I just go ahead and post the epilogue? It's high time we organized the new RP.

Thanks. Soory, but I've been both bust yet lazy at the exact same time.

Sure we can get the Epilouge up and get the next Rp started.

Edit: Who's 'he'?

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Edit: Who's 'he'?

Trilby, presumably.

[Frenequesta]

Edit: Who's 'he'?

Trilby, presumably.

Yes.

[The Flutterlands]

Edit: Who's 'he'?

Trilby, presumably.

Oh, right. Didn't actually see him at first.

[Frenequesta]

Done.

I'll start drafting an OP for the next OOC thread soon.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Crap; I just noticed a last-minute spelling mistake. The word "frontier" in the third paragraph is misspelled; I can't believe I missed that typo during my proofreading.

[The Flutterlands]

Done.

I'll start drafting an OP for the next OOC thread soon.

Great.

[Frenequesta]

Crap; I just noticed a last-minute spelling mistake. The word "frontier" in the third paragraph is misspelled; I can't believe I missed that typo during my proofreading.

No worries. Fixed.

[The Flutterlands]

I wonder if after the Equestrian Reunifaction, the Changeling Colonies, Hives and Tribes , would begin to be treated like Indian Reservations in the U.S...

[Fascist Russian Empire]

I wonder if after the Equestrian Reunifaction, the Changeling Colonies, Hives and Tribes , would begin to be treated like Indian Reservations in the U.S...

I suppose it depends entirely on who leads the Equestrian government after the reunification; if it's an extreme pro-changeling integrationist, I imagine the government would make an attempt to start encouraging the changelings to relocate into Equestrian cities and settlements. If it's a more moderately aligned pony, I imagine the government might do something let that, letting the changelings keep some autonomous territories and encouraging them to stay there. If it's a more anti-changeling pony, then maybe they'll take a more Andrew Jackson-like approach and start evicting changelings from Equestrian settlements and constantly encroaching on traditionally changeling-owned lands to make room for more pony lands.

[Frenequesta]

The new OOC thread is up.