The Awesome Pony Rp : Under the Shadow of War (OOC: Sign Up)

[Frenequesta]

How is everyone doing? I've been busy and a bit lazy lately...

Pretty good. Got done with a big project for school, have another two in the wings.

I should have time to start planning for the new incarnation, however. I'd like to help draft the OP of the OOC thread, as I have a number of ideas to make it more attractive.

[The Flutterlands]

How is everyone doing? I've been busy and a bit lazy lately...

Pretty good. Got done with a big project for school, have another two in the wings.

I should have time to start planning for the new incarnation, however. I'd like to help draft the OP of the OOC thread, as I have a number of ideas to make it more attractive.

Kay, great. I'm hoping to add to the epilogue sooner or later...

[Fascist Russian Empire]

How is everyone doing? I've been busy and a bit lazy lately...

I was kinda underwhelmed by the Season 7 pilot, but, besides that, I suppose I've been fine. I have a vast abundance of time (I'm probably the least busy person here), so feel free to hit me up if you want help with anything.

[The Flutterlands]

How is everyone doing? I've been busy and a bit lazy lately...

I was kinda underwhelmed by the Season 7 pilot, but, besides that, I suppose I've been fine. I have a vast abundance of time (I'm probably the least busy person here), so feel free to hit me up if you want help with anything.

I haven't seen them yet, but did you enjoy your Easter? My dad took me out for a family chicken dinner with my grandparents.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

I was kinda underwhelmed by the Season 7 pilot, but, besides that, I suppose I've been fine. I have a vast abundance of time (I'm probably the least busy person here), so feel free to hit me up if you want help with anything.

I haven't seen them yet, but did you enjoy your Easter? My dad took me out for a family chicken dinner with my grandparents.

I didn't really do anything interesting; hell, I actually didn't even realize it was Easter. My family and I pretty much never pay any attention to holidays, for the most part, especially religious holidays.

[The Flutterlands]

I haven't seen them yet, but did you enjoy your Easter? My dad took me out for a family chicken dinner with my grandparents.

I didn't really do anything interesting; hell, I actually didn't even realize it was Easter. My family and I pretty much never pay any attention to holidays, for the most part, especially religious holidays.

Really? Aren't you religious yourself?

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Really? Aren't you religious yourself?

Formerly.

[The Flutterlands]

Okay, I'm hoping to add to the Epilogue today...

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Okay, I'm hoping to add to the Epilogue today...

Soooooooo, how's the epilogue progress coming along?

[The Flutterlands]

Okay, I'm hoping to add to the Epilogue today...

Soooooooo, how's the epilogue progress coming along?

Sorry, I get distracted by other rps I'm in...

[The Flutterlands]

Again, I don't like Celestia completely abandoning her Changeling Allies and subjects. She shouldmake some sort of compromise with the ToV that still leaves protections of Changelings wither they like it or not.

The events that lead to the attempt of Pony and Changeling reunification was a once in a life time thing.

[Frenequesta]

Again, I don't like Celestia completely abandoning her Changeling Allies and subjects. She shouldmake some sort of compromise with the ToV that still leaves protections of Changelings wither they like it or not.

The events that lead to the attempt of Pony and Changeling reunification was a once in a life time thing.

I created the Crystal Empire independence track in part so changelings weren't entirely at the mercy of the Temple. Of course, the Temple is still going on with their genocide, but at least changelings that want to reconcile with ponies know where to go.

And there's still opportunity for reconciliation-at least if the Crystal Empire experience goes right.

[The Flutterlands]

Again, I don't like Celestia completely abandoning her Changeling Allies and subjects. She shouldmake some sort of compromise with the ToV that still leaves protections of Changelings wither they like it or not.

The events that lead to the attempt of Pony and Changeling reunification was a once in a life time thing.

I created the Crystal Empire independence track in part so changelings weren't entirely at the mercy of the Temple. Of course, the Temple is still going on with their genocide, but at least changelings that want to reconcile with ponies know where to go.

And there's still opportunity for reconciliation-at least if the Crystal Empire experience goes right.

Fair enough. I still don't see Celestia completely abandoning the changelings with processions for them.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Again, I don't like Celestia completely abandoning her Changeling Allies and subjects. She shouldmake some sort of compromise with the ToV that still leaves protections of Changelings wither they like it or not.

The events that lead to the attempt of Pony and Changeling reunification was a once in a life time thing.

This again? I believe it's already been made clear that this is the most realistically possible peace treaty; if Celestia was so unbelievably full of hubris and an unwillingness to compromise that she wouldn't so much as accept a single one of the rebels' terms, they would just cancel the peace negotiations and continue waging war on her government, most likely leading to its total collapse. The entire rebellion revolves around militant anti-changeling sentiment; they would never be content with allowing the pro-changeling status-quo to continue, and would, thus, never accept a peace treaty which continued to enforce said status-quo without a single reform. The All-Maker agreeing to allow protections of changelings is even less likely that the Shi'ite theocratic government in Iran agreeing to allow protections of the Sunni minority; it just isn't going to happen.

Besides, it's still entirely possible for things to turnaround for the changeling rights movement, even if the Temple deals a heavy blow to them; there are a number of possibilities for improving pony-changeling relations and derailing the genocide train. If you yourself don't have any ideas on how it could be done, then allow me to share one of my ideas for changeling integration in the next incarnation. My own proposition is that the changeling race, or at least part of it, has an evolution/reformation like they did at the end of Season Six, getting rid of their naturally parasitic nature and making them more suited to living in pony society, leading to a decline in the number of conflicts and a rise of support for them being allowed to live in Equestria. A reformed changeling race, which no longer sought to conquer Equestria and which no longer relied on inherently parasitic activities to survive, would go a long way towards furthering the prospect of them being able to live in Equestria without conflict; even the Temple would, perhaps, eventually reform the faith and abandon its policy of genocide, as the changelings would no longer be the abominable foreign invaders they were once decreed to be.

Either way, if that's still not good enough for you, and you're completely unsatisfied with what Fren and I have written (as well as our efforts to show that this ending will work just fine), you can always write your own 7000+ word epilogue from scratch where Zeus comes down from Mount Olympus and convinces everyone to just give up their ambitions and goals, without any reason, and everyone lives happily ever after in artificial peace and harmony.

[The Flutterlands]

Again, I don't like Celestia completely abandoning her Changeling Allies and subjects. She shouldmake some sort of compromise with the ToV that still leaves protections of Changelings wither they like it or not.

The events that lead to the attempt of Pony and Changeling reunification was a once in a life time thing.

This again? I believe it's already been made clear that this is the most realistically possible peace treaty; if Celestia was so unbelievably full of hubris and an unwillingness to compromise that she wouldn't so much as accept a single one of the rebels' terms, they would just cancel the peace negotiations and continue waging war on her government, most likely leading to its total collapse. The entire rebellion revolves around militant anti-changeling sentiment; they would never be content with allowing the pro-changeling status-quo to continue, and would, thus, never accept a peace treaty which continued to enforce said status-quo without a single reform. The All-Maker agreeing to allow protections of changelings is even less likely that the Shi'ite theocratic government in Iran agreeing to allow protections of the Sunni minority; it just isn't going to happen.

Besides, it's still entirely possible for things to turnaround for the changeling rights movement, even if the Temple deals a heavy blow to them; there are a number of possibilities for improving pony-changeling relations and derailing the genocide train. If you yourself don't have any ideas on how it could be done, then allow me to share one of my ideas for changeling integration in the next incarnation. My own proposition is that the changeling race, or at least part of it, has an evolution/reformation like they did at the end of Season Six, getting rid of their naturally parasitic nature and making them more suited to living in pony society, leading to a decline in the number of conflicts and a rise of support for them being allowed to live in Equestria. A reformed changeling race, which no longer sought to conquer Equestria and which no longer relied on inherently parasitic activities to survive, would go a long way towards furthering the prospect of them being able to live in Equestria without conflict; even the Temple would, perhaps, eventually reform the faith and abandon its policy of genocide, as the changelings would no longer be the abominable foreign invaders they were once decreed to be.

Either way, if that's still not good enough for you, and you're completely unsatisfied with what Fren and I have written (as well as our efforts to show that this ending will work just fine), you can always write your own 7000+ word epilogue from scratch where Zeus comes down from Mount Olympus and convinces everyone to just give up their ambitions and goals, without any reason, and everyone lives happily ever after in artificial peace and harmony.

It won't be complete status quo. It's just that changelings can't be killed without real justification and they can't commit war crimes. The true difference would be that the ToV would be able to create Jim Crow like societies built on discrimination.

Really, I just don't see how anyone could realistically betray their new subjects they've been to intergrate to extermination like that. It's not hubris, it's morality and loyalty.

Also, your proposition kind if ruins the whole point of all things here. The idea is that changelings are intergratedo despite of their parasitic nature which isn't actually harmful unless the changeling wants it so Edit: Not to mention that changelings wouldn't have any need to conquer if allowed to be integrated.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

It won't be complete status quo. It's just that changelings can't be killed without real justification and they can't commit war crimes. The true difference would be that the ToV would be able to create Jim Crow like societies built on discrimination.

Really, I just don't see how anyone could realistically betray their new subjects they've been to intergrate to extermination like that. It's not hubris, it's morality and loyalty.

Also, your proposition kind if ruins the whole point of all things here. The idea is that changelings are intergratedo despite of their parasitic nature which isn't actually harmful unless the changelingwants it so .

The problem with the whole Jim Crow idea is that the rebels don't want to segregate changelings, or make changelings into second class citizens, they want them to be gone completely; their goal is extermination, not discrimination. I don't really see how this treaty concept could be feasibly accepted by all parties involved; sure, the rebels would settle for less than the total eradication of the changeling community in the peace deal, but I just can not fathom why they would possibly abandon their goals entirely and agree to a treaty which is unsatisfactory for everyone involved. Call me a cynic, but I cannot imagine that such a universally-disliked peace treaty, where everypony at the table objects to the contents, would last long in the peace negotiations.

As for Celestia agreeing to peace, well, again, we can always change it to say that Parliament made the decision instead of her if you are so insistent that Celestia would rather fight a losing war until the end than agree to the Temple's terms.

And, as for the final point, well, I disagree; sometimes a demographic needs to change in order to be compatible with another culture. Even the show admitted that much; instead of the ponies all just forgetting about the whole invasion of Equestria thing and pretending changelings are perfectly normal and can live in Equestria no problem, the changelings were reformed and became more suited to life in Equestria. It just has never been feasible for completely hostile, ideologically and socially incompatible cultures to live in peace; someone has to change along the way to make co-habitation a realistic possibility. Either way, it was just one idea out of many separate possibilities.

[The Flutterlands]

It won't be complete status quo. It's just that changelings can't be killed without real justification and they can't commit war crimes. The true difference would be that the ToV would be able to create Jim Crow like societies built on discrimination.

Really, I just don't see how anyone could realistically betray their new subjects they've been to intergrate to extermination like that. It's not hubris, it's morality and loyalty.

Also, your proposition kind if ruins the whole point of all things here. The idea is that changelings are intergratedo despite of their parasitic nature which isn't actually harmful unless the changeling wants it so .

The problem with the whole Jim Crow idea is that the rebels don't want to segregate changelings, or make changelings into second class citizens, they want them to be gone completely; their goal is extermination, not discrimination. I don't really see how this treaty concept could be feasibly accepted by all parties involved; sure, the rebels would settle for less than the total eradication of the changeling community in the peace deal, but I just can not fathom why they would possibly abandon their goals entirely and agree to a treaty which is unsatisfactory for everyone involved. Call me a cynic, but I cannot imagine that such a universally-disliked peace treaty, where everypony at the table objects to the contents, would last long in the peace negotiations.

As for Celestia agreeing to peace, well, again, we can always change it to say that Parliament made the decision instead of her if you are so insistent that Celestia would rather fight a losing war until the end than agree to the Temple's terms.

And, as for the final point, well, I disagree; sometimes a demographic needs to change in order to be compatible with another culture. Even the show admitted that much; instead of the ponies all just forgetting about the whole invasion of Equestria thing and pretending changelings are perfectly normal and can live in Equestria no problem, the changelings were reformed and became more suited to life in Equestria. It just has never been feasible for completely hostile, ideologically and socially incompatible cultures to live in peace; someone has to change along the way to make co-habitation a realistic possibility. Either way, it was just one idea out of many separate possibilities.

1.) Then there needs to be a peace treaty where everyone benefits both pony and changeling. We can't have a peace treaty where only the ToV benefits and gets to quench their thirst for changeling blood. The pro-changeling factions won't stand for it nor would Celestia's Changeling allies.

2.) That could work but I don't see how Parliament could agree being split into Pro-changeling zealots and anti-changelings.

3.) But that's just it! The whole point of this war, the Pony-Changeling Alliance and The Changeling Integration program is to show that changelings are not the monsters everyone thought they were and in liberal parts of Equestria, where Pro-changeling ideology is king, it has been working greatly.

It's not like the Refugee Crisis in Europe where many of the Syrian Muslims are shut-ins who want nothing more than Sharia Law. The changelings don't go around rioting and raping mares and stuff like that. The reality is that it's mostly the likes of ToV and the Changelings under Chrysalis who are at fault here. If we get the ToV and Chrysalis out of the picture things could work out relatively well.

Seriously, have there ever been a moment in history like this where the government are forced to betray their subjects like the ToV want?

[Frenequesta]

Seriously, have there ever been a moment in history like this where the government are forced to betray their subjects like the ToV want?

I have a question: How many changelings are Equestrian subjects?

By our own accounts, changelings have always considered their colonies and hives sovereign. Even Razor Wing ruled against actually integrating into Equestrian because of his objection to Equestria's monogamous culture. Outside of Manehattan, Fillydelphia, and Ponyville, (and perhaps Salt Lick City), changelings that consider themselves residents of Equestrian cities are an extreme rarity. I'd imagine they'd count for no more than 2-3% of the total Equestrian population. Even with the new changeling policy, changelings as a whole don't have much political clout, and the anti-changeling crowd far outnumbers them.

Which makes me think that the bulk of Equestria's changeling policy is really a matter of foreign policy, which means that some other implications need to be addressed in the current draft.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

1.) Then there needs to be a peace treaty where everyone benefits both pony and changeling. We can't have a peace treaty where only the ToV benefits and gets to quench their thirst for changeling blood. The pro-changeling factions won't stand for it nor would Celestia's Changeling allies.

2.) That could work but I don't see how Parliament could agree being split into Pro-changeling zealots and anti-changelings.

3.) But that's just it! The whole point of this war, the Pony-Changeling Alliance and The Changeling Integration program is to show that changelings are not the monsters everyone thought they were and in liberal parts of Equestria, where Pro-changeling ideology is king, it has been working greatly.

It's not like the Refugee Crisis in Europe where many of the Syrian Muslims are shut-ins who want nothing more than Sharia Law. The changelings don't go around rioting and raping mares and stuff like that. The reality is that it's mostly the likes of ToV and the Changelings under Chrysalis who are at fault here. If we get the ToV and Chrysalis out of the picture things could work out relatively well.

Seriously, have there ever been a moment in history like this where the government are forced to betray their subjects like the ToV want?

1: It's a civil war, not a humanitarian aid conference. The point of peace negotiations is for the victor to try to get as many concessions as possible and for the defeated to try and minimize damages; the conference attendees aren't good samaritans trying to improve everybody's lives, they are political figures trying to enforce their agenda. Since the rebels' position would give them the most bargaining power, it stands to reason that the terms of the peace agreements would primarily be to their benefit.

2: And why not? I imagine most MPs would be pragmatic on some level; while the more ideologically driven ones, like Trilby, would refuse to support giving concessions to the rebels, I imagine that most of them would recognize that a peace treaty is essential to prevent the total collapse of Equestria and would agree to the Temple's terms.

3: Sure, the average changeling is probably reasonably civilized, but the atrocities committed by Chrysalis and forces loyal to her would give an impression throughout Equestria (particularly in the occupied cities, where ponies would be just a wee bit unhappy about the whole slavery and mass-destruction thing) that changelings are savage abominations who seek to destroy pony society. It might not be an accurate impression for ponies to take, but after so many years of war, and so many massive attacks by changelings, the average pony would be likely start to associate the changelings with violence and atrocities, thus leading to the rise of groups like the Temple of Vision and an increase in anti-changeling sentiment. Some sort of visible evolution of changelings would help make a lot more ponies move on from the past and accept changeling presence; it would definitely be the least violent way to end the resurgence of anti-changeling sentiment.

As for real-life examples, well, there are a lot of examples of genocides perpetrated without the government's blessing (there's more than one instance of populations within the Ottoman Empire perpetrating genocide against the Assyrians), and I suppose that certain Islamist insurgent groups like Boko Haram could be considered similar to the Temple in that they are both rebel movements which want to destroy a minority demographic. I don't know of any specific instances, right this moment, where the government later surrendered to the genocidal groups, but there have definitely been similar uprisings throughout history.

[The Flutterlands]

Seriously, have there ever been a moment in history like this where the government are forced to betray their subjects like the ToV want?

I have a question: How many changelings are Equestrian subjects?

By our own accounts, changelings have always considered their colonies and hives sovereign. Even Razor Wing ruled against actually integrating into Equestrian because of his objection to Equestria's monogamous culture. Outside of Manehattan, Fillydelphia, and Ponyville, (and perhaps Salt Lick City), changelings that consider themselves residents of Equestrian cities are an extreme rarity. I'd imagine they'd count for no more than 2-3% of the total Equestrian population. Even with the new changeling policy, changelings as a whole don't have much political clout, and the anti-changeling crowd far outnumbers them.

Which makes me think that the bulk of Equestria's changeling policy is really a matter of foreign policy, which means that some other implications need to be addressed in the current draft.

That's a good point and is something that is to be discussed. The changelings are basically the MLP equivlient of the Nataive Americans in this Rp. They are the Native Equestrians, and like Native Americans they conisder their tribes (Colonies and hives) as soverign. So we should talk about this.

It's also good to point out that changelings as a whole, out number the equestrian ponies.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

That's a good point and is something that is to be discussed. The changelings are basically the MLP equivlient of the Nataive Americans in this Rp. They are the Native Equestrians, and like Native Americans they conisder their tribes (Colonies and hives) as soverign. So we should talk about this.

It's also good to point out that changelings as a whole, out number the equestrian ponies.

This post here, by Fren, says that Manehattan (presumably the largest city in Equestria, and one which, I believe, has been stated to have been one of the more pro-changeling cities) has around a quarter of a million changeling residents (about 3% of the total population of around eight point three million).

If the largest city in Equestria, a very pro-changeling city and a major location of changeling settlement, which is such a major center of changeling activity that it was chosen as the imperial capital of the Changeling Empire, only has a changeling population of around 3%, well, chances are the nationwide percentage isn't very high either. My estimate is that changeling residents would constitute around 1.5% or 2% of the total Equestrian population, mostly concentrated in Vanhoover, Manehattan, the Crystal Empire, and other northern cities. The changeling population in Ponyville and Salt-Lick City would be almost nonexistent as the result of genocide and mass-exodus from those areas.

[The Flutterlands]

Okay. This is the beginning of the school week. Again, I'm sorry for not doing anything, I've been tired, busy, distracted and lazy. I'm hoping to get something up over the week.

That being said, I was wondering if we could start from scratch as this Rp, involving war and politics, haven't exactly brought many players.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Okay. This is the beginning of the school week. Again, I'm sorry for not doing anything, I've been tired, busy, distracted and lazy. I'm hoping to get something up over the week.

That being said, I was wondering if we could start from scratch as this Rp, involving war and politics, haven't exactly brought many players.

So, what exactly is your new vision for the RP? If the current theme is unsatisfactory, what's the new one going to be?

[The Flutterlands]

Okay. This is the beginning of the school week. Again, I'm sorry for not doing anything, I've been tired, busy, distracted and lazy. I'm hoping to get something up over the week.

That being said, I was wondering if we could start from scratch as this Rp, involving war and politics, haven't exactly brought many players.

So, what exactly is your new vision for the RP? If the current theme is unsatisfactory, what's the new one going to be?

Slice of life, hopefully. Unless we can come up with an idea that's appealing.

[Frenequesta]

So, what exactly is your new vision for the RP? If the current theme is unsatisfactory, what's the new one going to be?

Slice of life, hopefully. Unless we can come up with an idea that's appealing.

I somehow think that slice of life is going to be less appealing for the bulk of RPers out there. Not that we shouldn't have it, but it's not going to draw us a crowd.

What we need is more structure, really. Remember when NB said he didn't like RPs without structure? There we go. I'm currently working on a chart that will provide all of the vital details of the separated countries of Equestria, to give people a sense of how the dynamic of the RP will generally go.