Girls und Panzer: Battle Europa (OOC/Sign-up, Open)

[Monfrox]

IT'S JOKE!

>not using best reference of said line

[Fascist Republic Of Bermuda]

Speaking about Międzymorze....
(Bonple is the Polish School in GuP)

:V

Why is Oarai Yugoslavia?

I believe it is because vanilla Yugoslavia has a modifier called "Anti-German Military".

And since in this mod Germany is Kuromorimine...

I found that tidbit hilarious.

Also, pasta stronk.

[Wolfenium]

IT'S JOKE!

>not using best reference of said line

Never played Metro before, so I wouldn't know. :V

:V

Why is Oarai Yugoslavia?

I believe it is because vanilla Yugoslavia has a modifier called "Anti-German Military".

And since in this mod Germany is Kuromorimine...

I found that tidbit hilarious.

Also, pasta stronk.

Damn, I should get the game. >_>

[Krajstali]

Damn, I should get the game. >_>

I got mine the same means as how Keizoku gets their tanks.

But there's always the GuP mods for Civilization 5 which has University Strengthened.

[Monfrox]

>not using best reference of said line

Never played Metro before, so I wouldn't know. :V

*audible gasp*

You poor soul.

[Wolfenium]

Damn, I should get the game. >_>

I got mine the same means as how Keizoku gets their tanks.

But there's always the GuP mods for Civilization 5 which has University Strengthened.

*translation error trigger*

[Minroz]

As much as it sounds cool Międzymorze means "Between the Seas" since the concept aims for a federation between the Baltic and the Black Sea, assuming that these guys simply want Prussia to be with Poland.

Speaking about Międzymorze....
(Bonple is the Polish School in GuP)

Where you did find this mod from? :V

Tho' it kinds feels awesume for RPing animu girls as leaders.

[Krajstali]

As much as it sounds cool Międzymorze means "Between the Seas" since the concept aims for a federation between the Baltic and the Black Sea, assuming that these guys simply want Prussia to be with Poland.

Speaking about Międzymorze....
(Bonple is the Polish School in GuP)

Where you did find this mod from? :V

Tho' it kinds feels awesume for RPing animu girls as leaders.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/hearts-of-panzers

Unsurprisingly the /ak/ logo (The guys who bring us our translated military animu and manga) shows up so I guess it's safe to assume that the person behind the mod is part of /ak/.
Also, the mod seems to be outdated and other mods like this that also include KanColle are in HoI IV's steam workshop.

[Monfrox]

Off tomorrow, post tomorrow.

I am trash and I slept all day. Dammit, I'll get one up tomorrow if it's the only thing I'll do.

[Wolfenium]

Off tomorrow, post tomorrow.

I am trash and I slept all day. Dammit, I'll get one up tomorrow if it's the only thing I'll do.

._.

Take it easy there.

[Minroz]

So...does anyone have their favourite WW2 tank?

[Sonitusia]

So...does anyone have their favourite WW2 tank?

M5 Stuart, Type 97 Chi-Ha, and Cromwell.

[Fascist Republic Of Bermuda]

So...does anyone have their favourite WW2 tank?

The Tiger II is always cool. I'd like to clarify that "favorite" does not mean "good" or "cost-effective"

[Wolfenium]

So...does anyone have their favourite WW2 tank?

Hmm... Panzer Vor-I mean Four!

[Monfrox]

So...does anyone have their favourite WW2 tank?

Super Pershing. Best tank to ever come out of WW2, but mainly because it was the last tank fielded so it had the advantages of knowing what worked and what didn't.

And before you say anything, the HVAP rounds from the Super Pershing can pen 13 inches of steel at a 30 degree angle from 100 yards, and 8.5 inches from 1,000 yards. Couple that with the up-armored front which included the spaced armor plating and it was practically unstoppable by the enemy.

[Ardavia]

So...does anyone have their favourite WW2 tank?

Super Pershing. Best tank to ever come out of WW2, but mainly because it was the last tank fielded so it had the advantages of knowing what worked and what didn't.

And before you say anything, the HVAP rounds from the Super Pershing can pen 13 inches of steel at a 30 degree angle from 100 yards, and 8.5 inches from 1,000 yards. Couple that with the up-armored front which included the spaced armor plating and it was practically unstoppable by the enemy.

"Fielded". If one prototype sent over for combat testing counts as being fielded, then I'm going to come out and say that Centurion (of which 6 prototypes were sent to Europe for evaluations prior to the end of the war in Europe) is my favorite WW2 tank.

I'll even argue that it was better than the Super Pershing, as a tank to come out of WW2.

The gun was roughly capable (the 17-pdr's APDS did 275mm/11 inches of RHA at 100m, and 233mm/9.1 inches at 1000m), and its APDS had a higher muzzle velocity than the 90mm's HVAP shot. The 20-pdr was even better when it was introduced in 1948, managing 13 inches with APDS shot, though the range for that is unspecified.
The Mark II Centurion had 152mm of frontal turret armour, and 118mm of armour on the glacis. I'm unsure what the thickness of the Pershing's armour was when factoring in the applique (which as far as I'm aware was only added to the Super Pershing prototype and never actually became standard), but its glacis was apparently 102mm thick.
Finally, it didn't use an engine and transmission designed for a tank ten tons lighter, so it wasn't unreliable and lacking in mobility like the Super Pershing prototype. In fact, it outperformed the Comet in mobility evaluations.

:V

[Monfrox]

Super Pershing. Best tank to ever come out of WW2, but mainly because it was the last tank fielded so it had the advantages of knowing what worked and what didn't.

And before you say anything, the HVAP rounds from the Super Pershing can pen 13 inches of steel at a 30 degree angle from 100 yards, and 8.5 inches from 1,000 yards. Couple that with the up-armored front which included the spaced armor plating and it was practically unstoppable by the enemy.

"Fielded". If one prototype sent over for combat testing counts as being fielded, then I'm going to come out and say that Centurion (of which 6 prototypes were sent to Europe for evaluations prior to the end of the war in Europe) is my favorite WW2 tank.

I'll even argue that it was better than the Super Pershing, as a tank to come out of WW2.

The gun was roughly capable (the 17-pdr's APDS did 275mm/11 inches of RHA at 100m, and 233mm/9.1 inches at 1000m), and its APDS had a higher muzzle velocity than the 90mm's HVAP shot. The 20-pdr was even better when it was introduced in 1948, managing 13 inches with APDS shot, though the range for that is unspecified.
The Mark II Centurion had 152mm of frontal turret armour, and 118mm of armour on the glacis. I'm unsure what the thickness of the Pershing's armour was when factoring in the applique (which as far as I'm aware was only added to the Super Pershing prototype and never actually became standard), but its glacis was apparently 102mm thick.
Finally, it didn't use an engine and transmission designed for a tank ten tons lighter, so it wasn't unreliable and lacking in mobility like the Super Pershing prototype. In fact, it outperformed the Comet in mobility evaluations.

:V

Fielded as in deployed, so yes it does count because the Super Pershing had 1 deployed to Germany out of the only 25 that were made. The Centurion was used beyond WW2, whereas the Super Pershing wasn't. Only the regular Pershing saw more combat and that was in Korea. So to compare the modern Centurion to the old Super Pershing is kind of unfair, even if it still is better. Though the APDS had a higher muzzle velocity of only 200 more ft/s, it still wasn't able to penetrate more than the Super Pershing. The front glacis is out of the question with the Super Pershing's 38+38+102 front armor which, as stated, was spaced. Same with the turret, which had 88mm thick plates from a Panther tank welded onto it.

While the Super Pershing was (slightly) lacking in mobility, it still did it's job and did it well. The Super Pershing knocked out a Panther, a King Tiger, and caused a Panzer crew to up and surrender at the first sight of that gun. This was a fearsome tank. Sadly, I cannot dig up anything on the Super Pershing's lack of reliability, as well as anything resembling a combat record for the Centurion in WW2.

[Sonitusia]

The Super Pershing knocked out a Panther, a King Tiger, and caused a Panzer crew to up and surrender at the first sight of that gun.

Could I get a citation on that?

[Monfrox]

The Super Pershing knocked out a Panther, a King Tiger, and caused a Panzer crew to up and surrender at the first sight of that gun.

Could I get a citation on that?

Last thing I reembered was a webpage going into detail about it but that webpage has recently gone down. The only other thing I could think of is reading the book Another River, Another Town written by the tank's gunner.

[Sonitusia]

Could I get a citation on that?

Last thing I reembered was a webpage going into detail about it but that webpage has recently gone down. The only other thing I could think of is reading the book Another River, Another Town written by the tank's gunner.

Cool, thanks for that.

[Ardavia]

The Super Pershing knocked out a Panther, a King Tiger, and caused a Panzer crew to up and surrender at the first sight of that gun.

Funny that.

See, the closest recorded unit that had Tiger IIs was SS 502.

They were 70 miles from where the 3rd Armoured was at the time of the described incident, fighting the Soviets in Berlin. Likewise, American reports afterward make no mention of Tiger IIs in the area.

Irwin's own account in the book only gives it as a "Tiger", and knowing the way the Allied forces were given to identifying every German tank as a Tiger, it could just as well have been a Panzer IV.

[Monfrox]

The Super Pershing knocked out a Panther, a King Tiger, and caused a Panzer crew to up and surrender at the first sight of that gun.

Funny that.

See, the closest recorded unit that had Tiger IIs was SS 502.

They were 70 miles from where the 3rd Armoured was at the time of the described incident, fighting the Soviets in Berlin. Likewise, American reports afterward make no mention of Tiger IIs in the area.

Irwin's own account in the book only gives it as a "Tiger", and knowing the way the Allied forces were given to identifying every German tank as a Tiger, it could just as well have been a Panzer IV.

Ah yes, I read that online article as well. Let's not forget that the King Tiger was also deployed to the Western Front in the Battle of the Bulge, which could be to say that a surviving Tiger II made it out of the area and retreated. Documentation for units is fine in all, but it's next to impossible to keep track of every single operational unit and soldier at any given time.

The Tiger can still constitute as either the Tiger I or Tiger II, but to say that it could've just been a Panzer IV even though it was A. this late in the war and B. given information of a Panzer crew surrendering to the Super Pershing, I highly doubt that it wasn't a Tiger. Not to mention the engagement of a Panther tank at 1,500 yards, which I would assume is correct despite being disputed as it would explain where the extra turret plating was appropriated from, given that it is listed as Panther plates.

But let's also not forget to go back to the fact that your Centurion wasn't deployed to the frontlines in WW2, but instead was used elsewhere and is a Cold War tank. Either way, you're still trying to compare that with a WW2 experimental tank that didn't see mass-production.

[Ardavia]

Ah yes, I read that online article as well. Let's not forget that the King Tiger was also deployed to the Western Front in the Battle of the Bulge, which could be to say that a surviving Tiger II made it out of the area and retreated. Documentation for units is fine in all, but it's next to impossible to keep track of every single operational unit and soldier at any given time.

The Tiger can still constitute as either the Tiger I or Tiger II, but to say that it could've just been a Panzer IV even though it was A. this late in the war and B. given information of a Panzer crew surrendering to the Super Pershing, I highly doubt that it wasn't a Tiger. Not to mention the engagement of a Panther tank at 1,500 yards, which I would assume is correct despite being disputed as it would explain where the extra turret plating was appropriated from, given that it is listed as Panther plates.

Why exactly does it make it more likely to be a Tiger because it was near the end of the war?

The likelihood of a Tiger II (which, let's not forget, was extremely parts-hungry and used ammo only shared by certain heavy ATGs and a few tank destroyers) somehow managing to remain away from its unit from the end of the Ardennes Offensive (which happened in December '44 and January '45) until late April 1945 is extremely unlikely.

This is where all the units that fielded Tiger IIs were on April 21st, 1945:

Battalion 501= unit already disbanded near Paderborn.
Battalion 502= unit disbanded 19th April in Harz mountains.
Battalion 503= in combat in the Austrian Hungarian border area near Stronsdorf.
Battalion 504= In action near Ferrara, Italy.
Battalion 505= unit disbanded in East Prussia. Last Tiger k.od 15th April.
Battalion 506= Unit disbanded 14th April at Iserlohn (the Ruhr).
Battalion 507= Last Tigers in action on 11th April near Osterode (Harz)
Battalion 508= In Italy. No King Tigers in the battalion.
Battalion 509= in action in lower Austria between St Polten and Amstetten.
Battalion 510= Unit disbanded 18th April in the Bode valley.
Grossdeutschland= No King Tigers.
SS 501 = In action at Eschenau, Austria.
SS 502= In action around Furtstenwalde (south of Berlin).
SS 503= In action in Berlin.

None of them were anywhere near Dessau. The closest was SS 502, which, as noted, was 70 miles away fighting the Soviets. And again, no American report mentions any German tanks in Dessau. The only thing that suggests the presence of one is Irwin's account, and the tank in question was probably a misidentified Panzer IV or Panther, or possibly a Tiger I.

But let's also not forget to go back to the fact that your Centurion wasn't deployed to the frontlines in WW2, but instead was used elsewhere and is a Cold War tank. Either way, you're still trying to compare that with a WW2 experimental tank that didn't see mass-production.

Yes, I'm comparing a tank developed during WW2 that wasn't fielded during the war to a tank developed during WW2 that had a single prototype see combat in one engagement mere weeks before the war ended.

Your point?

[Monfrox]

Ah yes, I read that online article as well. Let's not forget that the King Tiger was also deployed to the Western Front in the Battle of the Bulge, which could be to say that a surviving Tiger II made it out of the area and retreated. Documentation for units is fine in all, but it's next to impossible to keep track of every single operational unit and soldier at any given time.

The Tiger can still constitute as either the Tiger I or Tiger II, but to say that it could've just been a Panzer IV even though it was A. this late in the war and B. given information of a Panzer crew surrendering to the Super Pershing, I highly doubt that it wasn't a Tiger. Not to mention the engagement of a Panther tank at 1,500 yards, which I would assume is correct despite being disputed as it would explain where the extra turret plating was appropriated from, given that it is listed as Panther plates.

Why exactly does it make it more likely to be a Tiger because it was near the end of the war?

The likelihood of a Tiger II (which, let's not forget, was extremely parts-hungry and used ammo only shared by certain heavy ATGs and a few tank destroyers) somehow managing to remain away from its unit from the end of the Ardennes Offensive (which happened in December '44 and January '45) until late April 1945 is extremely unlikely.

This is where all the units that fielded Tiger IIs were on April 21st, 1945:

Battalion 501= unit already disbanded near Paderborn.
Battalion 502= unit disbanded 19th April in Harz mountains.
Battalion 503= in combat in the Austrian Hungarian border area near Stronsdorf.
Battalion 504= In action near Ferrara, Italy.
Battalion 505= unit disbanded in East Prussia. Last Tiger k.od 15th April.
Battalion 506= Unit disbanded 14th April at Iserlohn (the Ruhr).
Battalion 507= Last Tigers in action on 11th April near Osterode (Harz)
Battalion 508= In Italy. No King Tigers in the battalion.
Battalion 509= in action in lower Austria between St Polten and Amstetten.
Battalion 510= Unit disbanded 18th April in the Bode valley.
Grossdeutschland= No King Tigers.
SS 501 = In action at Eschenau, Austria.
SS 502= In action around Furtstenwalde (south of Berlin).
SS 503= In action in Berlin.

None of them were anywhere near Dessau. The closest was SS 502, which, as noted, was 70 miles away fighting the Soviets. And again, no American report mentions any German tanks in Dessau. The only thing that suggests the presence of one is Irwin's account, and the tank in question was probably a misidentified Panzer IV or Panther, or possibly a Tiger I.

But let's also not forget to go back to the fact that your Centurion wasn't deployed to the frontlines in WW2, but instead was used elsewhere and is a Cold War tank. Either way, you're still trying to compare that with a WW2 experimental tank that didn't see mass-production.

Yes, I'm comparing a tank developed during WW2 that wasn't fielded during the war to a tank developed during WW2 that had a single prototype see combat in one engagement mere weeks before the war ended.

Your point?

It could just as easily been a Volkssturm tank. Yes, contrary to popular belief, the Volkssturm were given tanks. Many were late-war tanks like the Jadgtiger, which is also notorious for breaking down. However, I still say that you could have a surviving tank from the Battle of the Bulge and not have it documented for the exact reason I previously stated. The further solidification in the fact that it was probably a Tiger II because it was near the end of the war is because the Tiger II was only in service in the end of the war. It's not as far-fetched as you're making it. To keep saying "Oh it was just a Panzer IV or Panther" is still wrong as the tank had engaged those as well and properly identified them.

And my point about this is that the question was about your favorite WW2 tank, to which you want to argue that your's is better than mine despite it not being a WW2 tank. To say the Super Pershing had one engagement is ignoring the other two it had, and not to mention that though it was deployed "mere weeks" before the war ended, still says more about the Centurion, which wasn't deployed at all until the Korean War.

[Ardavia]

It could just as easily been a Volkssturm tank. Yes, contrary to popular belief, the Volkssturm were given tanks. Many were late-war tanks like the Jadgtiger, which is also notorious for breaking down.

I have my doubts they would have had any tanks for the Volkssturm, considering the Volkssturm A) never had anything but small arms and panzerfausts, and B) the supply situation there was so bad they were issuing fucking Carcanos instead of Mausers because they were short on rifles. Also, there's C), why give valuable tanks to the expendable 12-year old children and 80 year old Great War veterans, when you have actual soldiers to man those still?


anyway

again

The list of units there? Those were all the German units that ever got issued Tiger IIs.

Most of them were disbanded or eradicated by April 21st, the rest were far away from the described site.

Is it hard for you to admit that maybe, just maybe, the entire incident didn't happen? That maybe it's a myth, that the two rarest tanks from both sides did in fact not meet?

However, I still say that you could have a surviving tank from the Battle of the Bulge and not have it documented for the exact reason I previously stated. The further solidification in the fact that it was probably a Tiger II because it was near the end of the war is because the Tiger II was only in service in the end of the war. It's not as far-fetched as you're making it. To keep saying "Oh it was just a Panzer IV or Panther" is still wrong as the tank had engaged those as well and properly identified them.

Oh yes. A rare tank only fielded with select units would totally have spent months away from its unit, operating a tank which would break down after 150 kilometers of driving for months on end without any access to spare parts or the ammunition necessary for the gun. Perfectly plausible scenario, more plausible than the idea that the Super Pershing's crew did the thing an uncountable number of other Allied crews did during the war and misidentified another German tank as being one of the feared Tigers, be it a honest mistake or for bragging rights.

*nods*