Of Zombies and Men (OOC/Closed)

[Ularn]

Could birds fly that far though? I mean, Alaska to Russia, sure, but they'd probably freeze solid this time of year and it's not like there's many people living across the Bering Strait to be infected, and getting from America to Europe or Africa? At its narrowest the Atlantic Ocean's got to be 2,000 miles wide. I'm not an Ornithologist but that sounds too far for a healthy bird to migrate, never mind one that's slowly decaying from the inside. Besides, why would a zombie bird try to fly that distance when there's still food at home. Indeed, if birds from the US can infect all the way to Europe, then Whidbey Island is already totally doomed; it's so close to the mainland it's practically a peninsula.

I also explained why the rest of the world wouldn't be offering the Americas a complete get out of jail free card; the infection could still have messed things up for them before they got it under control so the aid they could offer might be limited and the possibility of re-infecting themselves means they refuse to actually rescue anybody. Also, I did some rough maths and tossed some figures at Corrian in a TG earlier. Without some sort of outside assistance, I expect pretty much every person on Whidbey Island to be dead of exposure or starvation before the end of winter, whether hold out against the zombies or not.

Basically, I think we need other countries to be more or less okay for this RP to be anything other than extremely short lived and depressing

Well, for one, infected birds don't get tired. And as the infection mutates, the birds will too, probably being even more capable to fly around the world.
As to why, to spread the infection.
For the part of defending the fort, it's mentioned in the OP that the character survivors are immune, so it wouldn't exactly spread to the safe zone that way. And one fort is a lot easier to defend from any birds than a whole continent.

Whether or not they don't offer a lot of help at the start, there's still potential for them to eventually be able to rescue people, and create a cure, which would definitely mean the end of the RP, however long that takes( if it was even going then). As for the exposure and starvation, the military is...prepared for this, so they'd be prepared for dealing with the weather and food issues. Also, if coldness is that much of an issue, there are houses not too far beyond Fort Casey, where the safe Zone could be extended to, given a little time to secure the area. But if you still think it's an issue, perhaps the world could, at first, be able to offer assistance, before becoming overrun.

Okay, for reference, here's the TG I originally sent Corrian:

Hey!

So, been having some thoughts for the RP. I don't know how well this fits with what you and the rest of the OPs have planned, but I wanted to toss some ideas out:

I figure getting to the safe zone is only going to be the start of the characters' challenges. From the pictures I've seen, Fort Casey doesn't have a lot left by way of buildings aside from those bunkers under the old naval guns. Whidbey Island has a 55,000 population which I assume is alive and uninfected because otherwise everyone's fucked - including the safe zone. Also, it's November; winter's setting in.

So, let's say about 25,000 people (~1% of the population of King and Snohomish Counties) manage to make it to Whidbey. There's no way we're cramming 80,000 people into Fort Casey when there are perfectly good houses available, so more likely the whole island would just be placed under marshal law, with the residents allowed to stay in their homes and the refugees assigned to temporary shelters in the Fort. The armed forces would likely claim the permanent buildings in the fort for their own use and perhaps try to billet excess personnel in spare rooms in the towns. Depending on the availability of accommodation, it might even be possible to accommodate some of the refugees in the locals' houses, which might go down with varying degrees of success and goodwill. Everyone else is in tents at the beginning. Brrr!

Anyway, to keep everyone together, let's assume none of our characters win the real house lottery, and have to camp in the fort.

Whidbey has some agriculture and possibly some food stores but winter is coming and I imagine the local economy was pretty reliant on the mainland even before the apocalypse. Under marshal law, the army could press everyone (including residents) with non-essential skills (doctors, nurses, builders, cooks, etc. might be better used in their respective roles) into farmhands to try and keep them busy and increase next year's harvest to a level that might feed everyone - or at least everyone remaining. However, until then we still need to feed a small city's worth of people for around ten months.
Yeah, fuck!

A solution I could see being adopted (and one which provides scope for our characters to get up to mischief) is the organisation of scavenging expeditions back to the mainland. In exchange for, say, an extra quarter ration per day and perhaps the chance to loot the off luxury for themselves, people would volunteer to take a boat back across the Sound and scour the mainland for stuff like food, tools, warm clothing, building supplies, medicine and so on. Volunteer rates might be high at first but then so would the attrition rate since plenty of those teams might not make it back. On the other hand, successful scavengers would enjoy greater comfort and slightly higher standing than everyone providing farm labour.

I even have an idea for the first mission; a few weeks after the apocalypse, Whidbey's basically been stripped of building supplies and half the refugees are still living in tents. As one of the few non-military construction workers, Flak (who was helping the engineering corps build shelters as a way to avoid farmwork) is considered expendable so he gets attached to a scavenger team told to go loot some hardware stores for tools and materials. That team can also include whoever else's characters want them in there, whether they volunteered or were volunteered.

So what're your thoughts? Feel free to share this with Terintannia and Kyrainia too. Also for what it's worth, I took a lot of inspiration for this from the society in a webcomic called The Zombie Hunters, which might be worth checking out: http://www.thezombiehunters.com/index.php

[Ularn]

Sorry; meant to add that just because the rest of the world might have weathered the apocalypse doesn't mean they came out unscathed. As I keep trying to explain, their infrastructure and economy may well have taken a beating so there might not be enough of society left to do meaningful research into a cure. Even if there was, we've been trying to cure AIDS for decades, cancer for centuries, and the common cold for millennia; just because they might be looking for a cure doesn't mean they'll find one in time to be useful or that there even is one to find. Basically, we could easily be talking years before the world was able to organise a useful aid effort beyond airdrop ping food supplies.

Infected birds might not tire, but unless they're carrying a brainiac across the whole Atlantic with them I doubt they'd have the brainpower to think of flying across an endless expanse of water just to spread disease when there are perfectly infect able creatures to eat right here. Otherwise this sounds like you're making the zombie virus far too intelligent.

Also, I don't know about other characters, but I never had any intention of making Flak immune to the virus.

Ultimately though, I think we're straying from my main point a little, which was simply that I think having a localised end of the world scenario would make for a slightly more unique zombie story and also provide some unusual challenges and the occasional benefit. The survival of the rest of the world won't break the setting and without it the setting becomes (I believe) almost impossibly bleak.

[Terintania]

I shall respond to things as they were mentioned

1.There is literally no reason why Whidbey would make it out unscathed, so most of their population would be infected, as well, which is why the safe zone is limited to Fort Casey, because the military has set it up to be safe while they work on clearing out the rest of the island. The reason for them not just being completely screwed over is because, as I said, they were prepared. That's how they were able to set it up so fast. They had plans.

2. I imagine quite a few of the population that didn't get infected probably would die trying to get there, and there was never plans of everyone cramming in to the fort itself. They set up tents in the rather huge yard for people to stay in, at least for the start while they're getting everything else set up.

3. As I said, prepared and gathered supplies. Also as previously mentioned, most of whidbey's population would be infected and wouldn't need food, and they'd be able to take food from infected places

4. I agree that the scavenging thing seems pretty reasonable, and makes sense. It could even involve scavenging on the undefended parts of Whidbey.

5. Things that happen in the future shall be decided when they matter

To your second post:

1.I don't see any particular reason for the world not be infected, other than at the start, and honestly, I like the idea of it being the whole world.

2. Plants are capable of plotting well enough to improve their spread, such as making themselves appetizing to animals that will eat them and dump their seeds elsewhere. It doesn't require being smart, it requires pure base instinct. Like eating. Simply keeping itself spreading, such as viruses do. And even if 'fly across the ocean' isn't it's plan, 'fly somewhere and spread' is it's instinct. basically too stupid to process 'ocean big', it's just...going somewhere.

3. It was mentioned that they were immune in the op, but most specifically to the airborn part. Which is why they aren't all infected. But consider it. Swarms. You're probably gonna get bit, if you can't completely avoid them, which means you're gonna die if you're not immune. Of course, not everyone is going to be immune to bites, and as the virus mutates, it'll probably be even fewer people.

3. I personally prefer the idea of the world being infected, as I said, that's just how I like it. I like the bleakness of it, and I'd say this RP is somewhat unique as it is, at least somewhat, so I don't feel it's necessary to choose that just to make it stand out. But like I said, it could have survived for a while, allowing them to give aid for a while, then got overrun. Which I feel like that could be interesting, because of people wondering why the rest of the world went quiet. Wondering if they were left, or if something else happened.

And on another note with the whidbey island/fort Casey stuff, totally logical or not, Corrian and I already have all of that figure out. May not be 100% realistic, but while I like to be mostly realistic, I don't feel the need to make everything all totally right all the time. Otherwise this whole RP probably wouldn't make sense.

[Corrian]

Oh god, I go and read an IC for a while to catch up and a big discussion happens.

Edit: Crap, I totally forgot about that telegram

[Ularn]

I shall respond to things as they were mentioned

1.There is literally no reason why Whidbey would make it out unscathed, so most of their population would be infected, as well, which is why the safe zone is limited to Fort Casey, because the military has set it up to be safe while they work on clearing out the rest of the island. The reason for them not just being completely screwed over is because, as I said, they were prepared. That's how they were able to set it up so fast. They had plans.

Which does beg the question of why Whidbey would be more suitable as a safe zone than anywhere else? Apparently all we're doing is trapping ourselves on an island with over fifty-thousand undead.

2. I imagine quite a few of the population that didn't get infected probably would die trying to get there, and there was never plans of everyone cramming in to the fort itself. They set up tents in the rather huge yard for people to stay in, at least for the start while they're getting everything else set up.

I know; I assumed 99% fatalities on the mainland and that the refugees at Fort Casey would all be in tents. Freezing to death. If the inhabitants of Whidbey are all dead then that means their houses would be available (once the island is somehow cleansed of the aforementioned 50,000+ zombies) but that would mean dispersing the refugees far from Fort Casey and therefore rendering the safe zone pointless in the first place.

3. As I said, prepared and gathered supplies. Also as previously mentioned, most of whidbey's population would be infected and wouldn't need food, and they'd be able to take food from infected places

Even if we assume a refugee population in the thousands or low tens of thousands, that's still more mouths than you'll ever be able to feed on stockpiled supplies until next harvest time. Nearly everyone in Fort Casey is going to starve. Any less than a few thousand survivors and they probably won't have the manpower to farm their own food by then anyway.

4. I agree that the scavenging thing seems pretty reasonable, and makes sense. It could even involve scavenging on the undefended parts of Whidbey.

Scavenging in my telegram was meant to supplement other sources of food and resources, not replace them entirely. Unless pretty much everyone was away scavenging all the time (which again, subverts the entire purpose of a safe zone) they could not bring in enough food to feed everyone, and having everyone scavenging would probably strip the infected areas bare long before winter was over. If the refugees had other food sources (i.e. foreign aid packages and farming) then scavenging could focus on retrieving the essentials that can't be grown or manufactured in the safe zone, like medicine, warm clothing and condoms.

5. Things that happen in the future shall be decided when they matter

To your second post:

1.I don't see any particular reason for the world not be infected, other than at the start, and honestly, I like the idea of it being the whole world.

I don't. If the world is infected then mankind is doomed; all our characters can do is decide whether they die in five minutes, five months or five years.

2. Plants are capable of plotting well enough to improve their spread, such as making themselves appetizing to animals that will eat them and dump their seeds elsewhere. It doesn't require being smart, it requires pure base instinct. Like eating. Simply keeping itself spreading, such as viruses do. And even if 'fly across the ocean' isn't it's plan, 'fly somewhere and spread' is it's instinct. basically too stupid to process 'ocean big', it's just...going somewhere.

Plants don't 'plot'; they have tasty berries and bright flowers because millions of years ago a plant mutated tasty berries or bright flowers, and this made it more likely to be pollinated and have its seeds dispersed, therefore it proliferated better than the plants without tasty berries and bright flowers. Evolution is not a conscious or instinctive process; it's more like random trial and error. Although there are some diseases which modify the host's behaviour to make propagation easier (e.g. the cordyceps fungus) I still think giving those sorts of traits to a zombie virus is making it far too clever for the setting.

3. It was mentioned that they were immune in the op, but most specifically to the airborn part. Which is why they aren't all infected. But consider it. Swarms. You're probably gonna get bit, if you can't completely avoid them, which means you're gonna die if you're not immune. Of course, not everyone is going to be immune to bites, and as the virus mutates, it'll probably be even fewer people.

Fair enough. I see no reason why the virus needed to be airborne in the first place but whatever. I dispute the claim that being bitten is inevitable; you just have to be very prepared, careful and smart in your interactions with the zombies and you should be able to avoid injury. Some characters might be better at that than others.

3. I personally prefer the idea of the world being infected, as I said, that's just how I like it. I like the bleakness of it, and I'd say this RP is somewhat unique as it is, at least somewhat, so I don't feel it's necessary to choose that just to make it stand out. But like I said, it could have survived for a while, allowing them to give aid for a while, then got overrun. Which I feel like that could be interesting, because of people wondering why the rest of the world went quiet. Wondering if they were left, or if something else happened.

Perhaps. As I've said, I think the rest of the world genuinely needs to survive for several months beyond the Americas, if only so that our characters have a remote chance of surviving the winter and living long enough to grow and harvest their own food. If they can do that they can survive but otherwise everyone's dead in three months. I need there to be the possibility of survival because the prospect of a completely, utterly bleak RP with no hope of survival is just no fun at all.

And on another note with the whidbey island/fort Casey stuff, totally logical or not, Corrian and I already have all of that figure out. May not be 100% realistic, but while I like to be mostly realistic, I don't feel the need to make everything all totally right all the time. Otherwise this whole RP probably wouldn't make sense.

Well, I've voiced my concerns so I'll wait to see what you do.

[Terintania]

I shall respond to things as they were mentioned

1.There is literally no reason why Whidbey would make it out unscathed, so most of their population would be infected, as well, which is why the safe zone is limited to Fort Casey, because the military has set it up to be safe while they work on clearing out the rest of the island. The reason for them not just being completely screwed over is because, as I said, they were prepared. That's how they were able to set it up so fast. They had plans.

Which does beg the question of why Whidbey would be more suitable as a safe zone than anywhere else? Apparently all we're doing is trapping ourselves on an island with over fifty-thousand undead.

2. I imagine quite a few of the population that didn't get infected probably would die trying to get there, and there was never plans of everyone cramming in to the fort itself. They set up tents in the rather huge yard for people to stay in, at least for the start while they're getting everything else set up.

I know; I assumed 99% fatalities on the mainland and that the refugees at Fort Casey would all be in tents. Freezing to death. If the inhabitants of Whidbey are all dead then that means their houses would be available (once the island is somehow cleansed of the aforementioned 50,000+ zombies) but that would mean dispersing the refugees far from Fort Casey and therefore rendering the safe zone pointless in the first place.

3. As I said, prepared and gathered supplies. Also as previously mentioned, most of whidbey's population would be infected and wouldn't need food, and they'd be able to take food from infected places

Even if we assume a refugee population in the thousands or low tens of thousands, that's still more mouths than you'll ever be able to feed on stockpiled supplies until next harvest time. Nearly everyone in Fort Casey is going to starve. Any less than a few thousand survivors and they probably won't have the manpower to farm their own food by then anyway.

4. I agree that the scavenging thing seems pretty reasonable, and makes sense. It could even involve scavenging on the undefended parts of Whidbey.

Scavenging in my telegram was meant to supplement other sources of food and resources, not replace them entirely. Unless pretty much everyone was away scavenging all the time (which again, subverts the entire purpose of a safe zone) they could not bring in enough food to feed everyone, and having everyone scavenging would probably strip the infected areas bare long before winter was over. If the refugees had other food sources (i.e. foreign aid packages and farming) then scavenging could focus on retrieving the essentials that can't be grown or manufactured in the safe zone, like medicine, warm clothing and condoms.

5. Things that happen in the future shall be decided when they matter

To your second post:

1.I don't see any particular reason for the world not be infected, other than at the start, and honestly, I like the idea of it being the whole world.

I don't. If the world is infected then mankind is doomed; all our characters can do is decide whether they die in five minutes, five months or five years.

2. Plants are capable of plotting well enough to improve their spread, such as making themselves appetizing to animals that will eat them and dump their seeds elsewhere. It doesn't require being smart, it requires pure base instinct. Like eating. Simply keeping itself spreading, such as viruses do. And even if 'fly across the ocean' isn't it's plan, 'fly somewhere and spread' is it's instinct. basically too stupid to process 'ocean big', it's just...going somewhere.

Plants don't 'plot'; they have tasty berries and bright flowers because millions of years ago a plant mutated tasty berries or bright flowers, and this made it more likely to be pollinated and have its seeds dispersed, therefore it proliferated better than the plants without tasty berries and bright flowers. Evolution is not a conscious or instinctive process; it's more like random trial and error. Although there are some diseases which modify the host's behaviour to make propagation easier (e.g. the cordyceps fungus) I still think giving those sorts of traits to a zombie virus is making it far too clever for the setting.

3. It was mentioned that they were immune in the op, but most specifically to the airborn part. Which is why they aren't all infected. But consider it. Swarms. You're probably gonna get bit, if you can't completely avoid them, which means you're gonna die if you're not immune. Of course, not everyone is going to be immune to bites, and as the virus mutates, it'll probably be even fewer people.

Fair enough. I see no reason why the virus needed to be airborne in the first place but whatever. I dispute the claim that being bitten is inevitable; you just have to be very prepared, careful and smart in your interactions with the zombies and you should be able to avoid injury. Some characters might be better at that than others.

3. I personally prefer the idea of the world being infected, as I said, that's just how I like it. I like the bleakness of it, and I'd say this RP is somewhat unique as it is, at least somewhat, so I don't feel it's necessary to choose that just to make it stand out. But like I said, it could have survived for a while, allowing them to give aid for a while, then got overrun. Which I feel like that could be interesting, because of people wondering why the rest of the world went quiet. Wondering if they were left, or if something else happened.

Perhaps. As I've said, I think the rest of the world genuinely needs to survive for several months beyond the Americas, if only so that our characters have a remote chance of surviving the winter and living long enough to grow and harvest their own food. If they can do that they can survive but otherwise everyone's dead in three months. I need there to be the possibility of survival because the prospect of a completely, utterly bleak RP with no hope of survival is just no fun at all.

And on another note with the whidbey island/fort Casey stuff, totally logical or not, Corrian and I already have all of that figure out. May not be 100% realistic, but while I like to be mostly realistic, I don't feel the need to make everything all totally right all the time. Otherwise this whole RP probably wouldn't make sense.

Well, I've voiced my concerns so I'll wait to see what you do.

1. Because that's where they set up. Also, probably less zombies around the immediate fort area, or inside the fort, other than a few people who were visiting, and people aren't allowed inside, so that would make it easier to clear it out. Also, just, you know, designated place to set up.
2. There are ways to keep warm. It's not like they'd just leave them to their own devices. They'd provide them with ways to be warm, and as I've said, this is just the way it's set up for now. As it's getting colder, they'll be expanding, and being able to use houses.
3. I imagine that would depend on how long they've had to scavenge supplies. Regardless of like, anything, if we're logical about this, then the safezone doesn't work and the whole plot of the RP may as well be thrown out of the window, so, yeah, probably best not to completely go with logic on that.
4. Never said it was supposed to replace everything else.
5/1. Basically just how most zombie things are, so even if that is the case, it's still worked.
6. I know they don't really 'plot', but I couldn't think of a better way to explain it. It doesn't involve being clever at all. It involves spreading the virus. That's all there is too it. No thought, just spreading, as viruses do. That's just how it does it. It makes things attack and eat, and only meat, so not just making them eat anything it can find, so obviously it already changes behavior.
7. Already said I was fine with them surviving for a while, so.....
8.Probably not going to do anything with most of it, since most of this is already set as a thing.

[Corrian]

Yeah, I'm fine with the idea of the outside world outside of America taking a long while before it starts to head into a collapsing phase.

Also, thinking about it, was it ever specified if it was airborne? I can't even remember right now. Or did people just get sick and it spread like a disease does? Which I guess is technically being airborne in a sense since that is how diseases spread. And of course now the sick going completely psycho and just adding a bunch more people to the list of infected.

[Terintania]

Yeah, I'm fine with the idea of the outside world outside of America taking a long while before it starts to head into a collapsing phase.

Also, thinking about it, was it ever specified if it was airborne? I can't even remember right now. Or did people just get sick and it spread like a disease does? Which I guess is technically being airborne in a sense since that is how diseases spread. And of course now the sick going completely psycho and just adding a bunch more people to the list of infected.

Oh yeah, somehow I missed the spreading part. It at least started out airborne, because that was how it became a thing to begin with, and spread all over the US. And I imagine probably canada and south america at the least.

[Corrian]

Oh yeah, somehow I missed the spreading part. It at least started out airborne, because that was how it became a thing to begin with, and spread all over the US. And I imagine probably canada and south america at the least.

Well, you get flu season, which affects a lot of areas suddenly, then just spreads as more people contract it. I could see some areas getting hit more at a slower rate or something, though. Maybe Washington is the main epicenter

[Ularn]

Yeah, I'm fine with the idea of the outside world outside of America taking a long while before it starts to head into a collapsing phase.

Also, thinking about it, was it ever specified if it was airborne? I can't even remember right now. Or did people just get sick and it spread like a disease does? Which I guess is technically being airborne in a sense since that is how diseases spread. And of course now the sick going completely psycho and just adding a bunch more people to the list of infected.

I certainly wasn't aware of the virus being airborne until Ternintania mentioned it right now and, for what it's worth, I'd much rather that it wasn't. Biting seems like a perfectly acceptable transmission vector in nearly all zombie fiction without complicating things.

Anyway, I'm reasonably happy with the story continuing as we've discussed now. Anything else I can bring up when the time comes. The one last point I want to make, Terintania, is just about this bit here:

Regardless of like, anything, if we're logical about this, then the safezone doesn't work and the whole plot of the RP may as well be thrown out of the window, so, yeah, probably best not to completely go with logic on that.

The whole reason I wanted to have this discussion is because I had come up with a few minor tweaks to the setting by which the safe zone could work logically. It wasn't meant to be an attack on your writing; it was meant to be "Hey, if we just change this, this and this by just a little bit then if fills in a whole heap of plot holes so we don't have to worry about them again. The larger world surviving an outbreak transmitted solely by bites and fluid transfer makes the refugee camp a defendable and viable option for long-term survival without us having to make any huge leaps of logic or imagination.

[Terintania]

Yeah, I'm fine with the idea of the outside world outside of America taking a long while before it starts to head into a collapsing phase.

Also, thinking about it, was it ever specified if it was airborne? I can't even remember right now. Or did people just get sick and it spread like a disease does? Which I guess is technically being airborne in a sense since that is how diseases spread. And of course now the sick going completely psycho and just adding a bunch more people to the list of infected.

I certainly wasn't aware of the virus being airborne until Ternintania mentioned it right now and, for what it's worth, I'd much rather that it wasn't. Biting seems like a perfectly acceptable transmission vector in nearly all zombie fiction without complicating things.

Anyway, I'm reasonably happy with the story continuing as we've discussed now. Anything else I can bring up when the time comes. The one last point I want to make, Terintania, is just about this bit here:

Regardless of like, anything, if we're logical about this, then the safezone doesn't work and the whole plot of the RP may as well be thrown out of the window, so, yeah, probably best not to completely go with logic on that.

The whole reason I wanted to have this discussion is because I had come up with a few minor tweaks to the setting by which the safe zone could work logically. It wasn't meant to be an attack on your writing; it was meant to be "Hey, if we just change this, this and this by just a little bit then if fills in a whole heap of plot holes so we don't have to worry about them again. The larger world surviving an outbreak transmitted solely by bites and fluid transfer makes the refugee camp a viable option for long-term survival without us having to make any huge leaps of logic or imagination.

To the part about it being airborne, how else would it have spread to begin with? That isn't to say it needs to be airborne any longer, other than the initial spread.

What minor tweaks, exactly? What would make it so they have enough food?

[Corrian]

Also, it's not much, but there are buildings near the fort. Probably wouldn't supply all the people, but still. Also, I think they'd know when they hit an overflow point and need to set something else up as well. Like a safe zone somewhere else maybe, I don't quite know yet, kind of develop things (Besides the basis) as things flow, with more major ideas in my head here and there.

[Terintania]

Also, it's not much, but there are buildings near the fort. Probably wouldn't supply all the people, but still. Also, I think they'd know when they hit an overflow point and need to set something else up as well. Like a safe zone somewhere else maybe, I don't quite know yet, kind of develop things (Besides the basis) as things flow, with more major ideas in my head here and there.

We decided that the Safe Zone would be expanded slowly, and eventually get to those places, I believe

[Quensatango]

So Terintania, did you want to just time skip on the way to Everett where the plan was to catch a ferry (or if were feeling really adventurous have Everett be completely overrun and find other means of transportation while avoiding danger) to Whidbey or stop along the way for supplies and possibly run into trouble. This could either be on the rode (state 203 or state 2) or in Monroe. I personally don't know right now, although I have the feeling that the focus is supposed to be surviving in Fort Casey, in which case simply time skipping to Everett could speed things along.

[Corrian]

Also, it's not much, but there are buildings near the fort. Probably wouldn't supply all the people, but still. Also, I think they'd know when they hit an overflow point and need to set something else up as well. Like a safe zone somewhere else maybe, I don't quite know yet, kind of develop things (Besides the basis) as things flow, with more major ideas in my head here and there.

We decided that the Safe Zone would be expanded slowly, and eventually get to those places, I believe

Yeah, and they could probably expand it throughout the island. But they're going to get loaded with people fast, depending on who all can actually even make it there without dying...I figure a lot of the small percentage left won't even make it there alive.

Did we set any specific rules on how many people would still be alive? I kinda like The Walking Dead rules where it turns into about 1 person for every 5,000 zombies, but that might be a little too much, so I'm up for suggestions there.

[Ularn]

I certainly wasn't aware of the virus being airborne until Ternintania mentioned it right now and, for what it's worth, I'd much rather that it wasn't. Biting seems like a perfectly acceptable transmission vector in nearly all zombie fiction without complicating things.

Anyway, I'm reasonably happy with the story continuing as we've discussed now. Anything else I can bring up when the time comes. The one last point I want to make, Terintania, is just about this bit here:

The whole reason I wanted to have this discussion is because I had come up with a few minor tweaks to the setting by which the safe zone could work logically. It wasn't meant to be an attack on your writing; it was meant to be "Hey, if we just change this, this and this by just a little bit then if fills in a whole heap of plot holes so we don't have to worry about them again. The larger world surviving an outbreak transmitted solely by bites and fluid transfer makes the refugee camp a viable option for long-term survival without us having to make any huge leaps of logic or imagination.

To the part about it being airborne, how else would it have spread to begin with? That isn't to say it needs to be airborne any longer, other than the initial spread.

What minor tweaks, exactly? What would make it so they have enough food?

Aid drops from the uninfected world could provide enough food and medicine (not zombie cures; just stuff like antibiotics and whatnot for all the other diseases that people living in cold muddy tents would start dying of) to keep the safe zones alive through winter. That was literally my entire point at the beginning of this before we got sidetracked into heaps of other stuff.

As for how the virus spread initially, I see no reason why we actually need to explain that. Most other zombie stories don't and, since we started the RP in medias res, we don't really need to do it here. Maybe it was airborne once; maybe an infected dog bit a bunch of cattle that got turned into burgers that a bunch of people ate; maybe Anne Coulter was right and it was vaccines all along. Since whatever happened happened before our story began, I feel like it's only going to come up if any of our characters get a moment to idly speculate on where the virus came from, in which case their guesses are as good as anyone's and there seems no reason why we need to give a definitive answer. In fact, it might be more fun to see what kind of wacky conspiracy theories people start putting forward.

[Corrian]

Aid drops from the uninfected world could provide enough food and medicine (not zombie cures; just stuff like antibiotics and whatnot for all the other diseases that people living in cold muddy tents would start dying of) to keep the safe zones alive through winter. That was literally my entire point at the beginning of this before we got sidetracked into heaps of other stuff.

I actually like this idea. And over time, they can start to realize that their influence disappears as well, as they start having to deal with their own issues at home (Whatever that might be at the time)

As for how the virus spread initially, I see no reason why we actually need to explain that. Most other zombie stories don't and, since we started the RP in medias res, we don't really need to do it here. Maybe it was airborne once; maybe an infected dog bit a bunch of cattle that got turned into burgers that a bunch of people ate; maybe Anne Coulter was right and it was vaccines. Since whatever happened happened before our story began, I feel like it's only going to come up if any of our characters get a moment to idly speculate on where the virus came from, in which case their guesses are as good as anyone's and there seems no reason why we need to give a definitive answer. In fact, it might be more fun to see what kind of wacky conspiracy theories people start putting forward.

I also agree with this. Might as well not dwell on that part.

[Terintania]

So Terintania, did you want to just time skip on the way to Everett where the plan was to catch a ferry (or if were feeling really adventurous have Everett be completely overrun and find other means of transportation while avoiding danger) to Whidbey or stop along the way for supplies and possibly run into trouble. This could either be on the rode (state 203 or state 2) or in Monroe. I personally don't know right now, although I have the feeling that the focus is supposed to be surviving in Fort Casey, in which case simply time skipping to Everett could speed things along.

You got a preference? It doens't really matter. Part of the RP is the struggle of getting to Fort Casey, and some people are going for that I believe, but we don't really need to RP everyone coincidentally arriving at once, so it really doesn't matter if we timeskip or not. Whatever you prefer.

To the part about it being airborne, how else would it have spread to begin with? That isn't to say it needs to be airborne any longer, other than the initial spread.

What minor tweaks, exactly? What would make it so they have enough food?

Aid drops from the uninfected world could provide enough food and medicine (not zombie cures; just stuff like antibiotics and whatnot for all the other diseases that people living in cold muddy tents would start dying of) to keep the safe zones alive through winter. That was literally my entire point at the beginning of this before we got sidetracked into heaps of other stuff.

As for how the virus spread initially, I see no reason why we actually need to explain that. Most other zombie stories don't and, since we started the RP in medias res, we don't really need to do it here. Maybe it was airborne once; maybe an infected dog bit a bunch of cattle that got turned into burgers that a bunch of people ate; maybe Anne Coulter was right and it was vaccines all along. Since whatever happened happened before our story began, I feel like it's only going to come up if any of our characters get a moment to idly speculate on where the virus came from, in which case their guesses are as good as anyone's and there seems no reason why we need to give a definitive answer. In fact, it might be more fun to see what kind of wacky conspiracy theories people start putting forward.

So your idea is basically what we already agreed to

I know how it started, but I can just not mention it and you can just go with whatever

[Ularn]

We decided that the Safe Zone would be expanded slowly, and eventually get to those places, I believe

Yeah, and they could probably expand it throughout the island. But they're going to get loaded with people fast, depending on who all can actually even make it there without dying...I figure a lot of the small percentage left won't even make it there alive.

Did we set any specific rules on how many people would still be alive? I kinda like The Walking Dead rules where it turns into about 1 person for every 5,000 zombies, but that might be a little too much, so I'm up for suggestions there.

I imagine the ferry terminal at Mulkiteo will become a serious bottleneck for survivors fleeing Seattle and from further inland. Port Townsend will become the same as well but not as quickly since its further from any major city. Masses of panicked, desperate people would be stuck on the mainland, waiting for the ferry to come pick them up. If even one of them has been bitten but hasn't turned, (hiding their injury out of fear, ignorance or wilful idiocy) then dies while waiting in the queue, then within a few minutes everyone in that port will be bitten or fleeing. Alternatively, someone might turn zombie while on the ferry, ultimately causing it to sink or crash.

So yeah, we could easily write in the ports being overrun or the ferries becoming unusable shortly after the last of the PCs and a few thousand other survivors make it to Whidbey Island.

On that note, the military had better have some sort of process in place for separating the healthy from the walking infected. Either everyone entering the safe zone has to perform a strip search to prove they're not bitten, or we need to apply World War Z rules and have something like sniffer dogs to detect infection, or something else because otherwise an infected person will get in and the safe zone itself will be overrun within hours of it being set up.

So your idea is basically what we already agreed to

alm: We hadn't agreed to it when I started the conversation. When I first suggested the idea of allied supply drops you still wanted the whole world to be completely infected from the get-go. Let's just move on.

[Terintania]

Yeah, and they could probably expand it throughout the island. But they're going to get loaded with people fast, depending on who all can actually even make it there without dying...I figure a lot of the small percentage left won't even make it there alive.

Did we set any specific rules on how many people would still be alive? I kinda like The Walking Dead rules where it turns into about 1 person for every 5,000 zombies, but that might be a little too much, so I'm up for suggestions there.

I imagine the ferry terminal at Mulkiteo will become a serious bottleneck for survivors fleeing Seattle and from further inland. Port Townsend will become the same as well but not as quickly since its further from any major city. Masses of panicked, desperate people would be stuck on the mainland, waiting for the ferry to come pick them up. If even one of them has been bitten but hasn't turned, (hiding their injury out of fear, ignorance or wilful idiocy) then dies while waiting in the queue, then within a few minutes everyone in that port will be bitten or fleeing. Alternatively, someone might turn zombie while on the ferry, ultimately causing it to sink or crash.

So yeah, we could easily write in the ports being overrun or the ferries becoming unusable shortly after the last of the PCs and a few thousand other survivors make it to Whidbey Island.

On that note, the military had better have some sort of process in place for separating the healthy from the walking infected. Either everyone entering the safe zone has to perform a strip search to prove they're not bitten, or we need to apply World War Z rules and have something like sniffer dogs to detect infection, or something else because otherwise an infected person will get in and the safe zone itself will be overrun within hours of it being set up.

One little thing I feel like pointing out just to clear it up is that there is not techincally any dying involved in turning in to an infected. They're just infected, not undead, though they do start to rot and whatnot, and don't die the way most things would, so they're basically as good as dead. Doesn't really affect anyhting. Just felt like pointing that out

Well, Leroy's dog has been shown to be very keen on knowing when infected are near, so we could say that they can smell it on people, or something.

[Kyraina]

I imagine the ferry terminal at Mulkiteo will become a serious bottleneck for survivors fleeing Seattle and from further inland. Port Townsend will become the same as well but not as quickly since its further from any major city. Masses of panicked, desperate people would be stuck on the mainland, waiting for the ferry to come pick them up. If even one of them has been bitten but hasn't turned, (hiding their injury out of fear, ignorance or wilful idiocy) then dies while waiting in the queue, then within a few minutes everyone in that port will be bitten or fleeing. Alternatively, someone might turn zombie while on the ferry, ultimately causing it to sink or crash.

So yeah, we could easily write in the ports being overrun or the ferries becoming unusable shortly after the last of the PCs and a few thousand other survivors make it to Whidbey Island.

On that note, the military had better have some sort of process in place for separating the healthy from the walking infected. Either everyone entering the safe zone has to perform a strip search to prove they're not bitten, or we need to apply World War Z rules and have something like sniffer dogs to detect infection, or something else because otherwise an infected person will get in and the safe zone itself will be overrun within hours of it being set up.

One little thing I feel like pointing out just to clear it up is that there is not techincally any dying involved in turning in to an infected. They're just infected, not undead, though they do start to rot and whatnot, and don't die the way most things would, so they're basically as good as dead. Doesn't really affect anyhting. Just felt like pointing that out

Well, Leroy's dog has been shown to be very keen on knowing when infected are near, so we could say that they can smell it on people, or something.

Also might go with a little I am legend deal where the infected that ain't yet turn show say stuff like slightly enlarged irises, and a highfever, and loss of balance

[Terintania]

One little thing I feel like pointing out just to clear it up is that there is not techincally any dying involved in turning in to an infected. They're just infected, not undead, though they do start to rot and whatnot, and don't die the way most things would, so they're basically as good as dead. Doesn't really affect anyhting. Just felt like pointing that out

Well, Leroy's dog has been shown to be very keen on knowing when infected are near, so we could say that they can smell it on people, or something.

Also might go with a little I am legend deal where the infected that ain't yet turn show say stuff like slightly enlarged irises, and a highfever, and loss of balance

That would make a lot of sense.

[Kyraina]

Also might go with a little I am legend deal where the infected that ain't yet turn show say stuff like slightly enlarged irises, and a highfever, and loss of balance

That would make a lot of sense.

Also mix in some other Symptoms of say the cold and flu to make it harder to identify

[Ularn]

So is there anyone who might be heading to Tacoma or eventually Port Townsend? If so I could have Flak and Sherry meet up with them.

[Corrian]

Oh yeah, again, is there anyone in particular I am missing in the OP? I just added Leroy but I feel like I forgot to put others on there.

Edit: Oh, I know someone I forgot.

So is there anyone who might be heading to Tacoma or eventually Port Townsend? If so I could have Flak and Sherry meet up with them.

I think both of my characters will end up in Mulkiteo.