The Elder Scrolls: Ascension [OOC 2 | CLOSED]

[Zanera]

The games are uber scaled down with way less characters than in say, Arena. There is a limited amount of characters, and they're going to keep them basic. The land is super small in the later games, not enough to put a whole economy's worth of people into the games. There's blacksmiths with no magic, so it can easily be assumed that if there were carpenters in the game, that they wouldn't need magic to build a wooden house.

[Transoxthraxia]

300% mad

Hey, I'll just use some magic to conjure up some soothing cream.

[Ameige]

they weren't so lazy not to add several small towns over the course of the last few games that seem not to have much to do with anything.

As for wizards not being common well lets see here... except for skyrim most provinces have a mages guild. most rulers of provinces have court wizards. there are several random magic users in skyrim that aren't tied to anything important. Heck, on solstheim you can run into random fire and frost wizards battling it out for no reason. In morrowind there was a whole faction devoted to wizards who live in mushroom castle things...

In oblivion you have to go through quests to get into a facility that's only for high level magic users.

That's how common they are. they need a whole facility to separate the low level ones from the high level ones.

not adding carpenters to your game is a little less obvious than not adding any settled place outside of a couple of cities to your game

a mage guild with maybe about 30 mages in a city of 40000 doesn't scream "common" to me lad

for Oblivion you're probably referring to the Arcane University, which isn't just for "high level mages"

those "random mages" probably have very good reasons for attempting to murder the fuck out of each other

for fuck's sake, "not tied to anything important" does not mean that they're fucking common

In oblivion there was a mages guild in most major cities. So that's what, 30 or 40 wizards per city?
With like 5 or 6 cities if I remember correctly.. That's like what, 200 - 300 wizards?
And that's for cyrodiil alone, not including numerous other provinces. I'd say that counts as pretty common.

And that's not even counting the numerous random mages on solstheim that you can come across seemingly out of nowhere. my point was being that there is a lot of them.

I feel like if you managed to use a calm spell on the ones in solstheim you could probably get them to listen to you long enough to offer them some cash to help you out.

Or go to any random mages guild and toss some gold their way to borrow some of their wizards.
As I recall it in oblivion, they are often looking for quests and things that would bring in some coin.

As for the arcane university, which yes that's what I meant... I don't remember any quests for them not devoted to some school of magic. And once you finish all the quests for them you become the magic leader of them so if it isn't just a place for high level magic users I don't know what to call it.

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

200-300 wizards for a province with literally more than a million citizens yeah :^)

[Ameige]

200-300 wizards for a province with literally more than a million citizens yeah :^)

Yeah well your also not having every second person in the province trying to get ahold of the services of a wizard all the time. But 200-300 wizards in one province alone is common enough that they can bother to lose a few for a few months to a construction project and hardly notice is what Im saying.

Maybe not common in general population but certainly common enough for a few to go off on a job and the mages guild not be really all that effected in their daily routine.

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

200-300 wizards for a province with literally more than a million citizens yeah :^)

Yeah well your also not having every second person in the province trying to get ahold of the services of a wizard all the time.

you are if they are, as you're implying, the guys building everything

[Zanera]

200-300 wizards per province is a minute part of the populace. The wizards would rather be practicing or studying the arcane arts rather than work almost any laborer could do. It's a waste of a wizard's talents and abilities just to have them build a house a dozen men could build and with less money. Wizardry is expensive. And I doubt a wizard knows anything about building construction, when they have tons of other things they are learning about.

[Glasgia]

Ugh, tough week, sorry lads. Will get a post up tomorrow, hopefully.

[Ameige]

Yeah well your also not having every second person in the province trying to get ahold of the services of a wizard all the time.

you are if they are, as you're implying, the guys building everything

Well even if I am wrong in implying that, they are still magic users. Being able to use magic to levitate pieces into place and use a quick fire spell to to heat up metals to create nails and heat to resharpen dull tools while someone else works would probably help the project considerably. A lot more easier to have someone hammer in a few wooden boards or build a brick wall without worrying about it toppling over on you if you have some wizards using magic to hold it in place.

And heating tools with one of those accordion blowing tools blacksmiths use in the forges takes forever.
A simple fire spell is much easier and less time consuming.

So even if I am wrong about them building everything, They could at least be contributors easily enough.

[Zanera]

you are if they are, as you're implying, the guys building everything

Well even if I am wrong in implying that, they are still magic users. Being able to use magic to levitate pieces into place and use a quick fire spell to to heat up metals to create nails and heat to resharpen dull tools while someone else works would probably help the project considerably. A lot more easier to have someone hammer in a few wooden boards or build a brick wall without worrying about it toppling over on you if you have some wizards using magic to hold it in place.

And heating tools with one of those accordion blowing tools blacksmiths use in the forges takes forever.
A simple fire spell is much easier and less time consuming.

So even if I am wrong about them building everything, They could at least be contributors easily enough.

All they need is a dozen guys, and if they need the tools or the tools need fixing, they can just get them fixed at any blacksmith. Being a blacksmith is like being a carpenter or a mason. It's been done easily enough RL that it doesn't need magic, just the materials and labor required to do it.

[Ameige]

Well even if I am wrong in implying that, they are still magic users. Being able to use magic to levitate pieces into place and use a quick fire spell to to heat up metals to create nails and heat to resharpen dull tools while someone else works would probably help the project considerably. A lot more easier to have someone hammer in a few wooden boards or build a brick wall without worrying about it toppling over on you if you have some wizards using magic to hold it in place.

And heating tools with one of those accordion blowing tools blacksmiths use in the forges takes forever.
A simple fire spell is much easier and less time consuming.

So even if I am wrong about them building everything, They could at least be contributors easily enough.

All they need is a dozen guys, and if they need the tools or the tools need fixing, they can just get them fixed at any blacksmith. Being a blacksmith is like being a carpenter or a mason. It's been done easily enough RL that it doesn't need magic, just the materials and labor required to do it.

Well without magic there is a multitude of issues that could go wrong in construction. what if you fall off the scaffolding? what if your trying to build a brick wall and the wall gets too top heavy and topples over onto you? What if these blacksmiths are too concentrated on their work and don't notice a flame or a firey spark coming off their forge and setting the whole place on fire before its too late?

Too many possibilities of causalities to both the actual people and the construct itself.
Plus if something goes wrong with the building, you have to start all over.

Theres time constraints too. The longer it takes this dozen men to build something, the longer its going to take for anyone to move in. My character isn't made of money ya know.

Use a few wizards to help with small things like holding up walls and using their fire spells to make a smith forge obsolete and making sure people don't get killed by the thing they are building, and it should be finished in no time.

Otherwise its going to take forever and my character is going to have to pay these people with money he doesn't have cause they are taking too long to build something.

[Zanera]

All they need is a dozen guys, and if they need the tools or the tools need fixing, they can just get them fixed at any blacksmith. Being a blacksmith is like being a carpenter or a mason. It's been done easily enough RL that it doesn't need magic, just the materials and labor required to do it.

Well without magic there is a multitude of issues that could go wrong in construction. what if you fall off the scaffolding? what if your trying to build a brick wall and the wall gets too top heavy and topples over onto you? What if these blacksmiths are too concentrated on their work and don't notice a flame or a firey spark coming off their forge and setting the whole place on fire before its too late?

Too many possibilities of causalities to both the actual people and the construct itself.
Plus if something goes wrong with the building, you have to start all over.

Theres time constraints too. The longer it takes this dozen men to build something, the longer its going to take for anyone to move in. My character isn't made of money ya know.

Use a few wizards to help with small things like holding up walls and using their fire spells to make a smith forge obsolete and making sure people don't get killed by the thing they are building, and it should be finished in no time.

Otherwise its going to take forever and my character is going to have to pay these people with money he doesn't have cause they are taking too long to build something.

Building techniques and simple safety procedures can significantly reduce all of those hazards. Wizards are going to want payment for their services, and wizards aren't cheap. A few septims a day will probably keep a laborer happy, and a thousand septims a day will keep a wizard happy.

[Ameige]

Well without magic there is a multitude of issues that could go wrong in construction. what if you fall off the scaffolding? what if your trying to build a brick wall and the wall gets too top heavy and topples over onto you? What if these blacksmiths are too concentrated on their work and don't notice a flame or a firey spark coming off their forge and setting the whole place on fire before its too late?

Too many possibilities of causalities to both the actual people and the construct itself.
Plus if something goes wrong with the building, you have to start all over.

Theres time constraints too. The longer it takes this dozen men to build something, the longer its going to take for anyone to move in. My character isn't made of money ya know.

Use a few wizards to help with small things like holding up walls and using their fire spells to make a smith forge obsolete and making sure people don't get killed by the thing they are building, and it should be finished in no time.

Otherwise its going to take forever and my character is going to have to pay these people with money he doesn't have cause they are taking too long to build something.

Building techniques and simple safety procedures can significantly reduce all of those hazards. Wizards are going to want payment for their services, and wizards aren't cheap. A few septims a day will probably keep a laborer happy, and a thousand septims a day will keep a wizard happy.

Im pretty sure safety procedures didn't exist in the medieval ages. If you died you died.

And given what they make you pay in the games to upgrade your skill in any number of magic schools, I think wizards would be satisfied with a couple hundred septims a day unless they are some super amazing one like a court wizard or something.

I think the only thing that would really upgrade it to a thousand a day is if you were using wizards that dabbled in necromancy that could use the dead corpses of carpenters and masons to work on the buildings. That way they are already dead so if they fall off a building or get crushed theres nothing really to worry about. And zombies don't need to take breaks or get tired so theres that.

[Transoxthraxia]

Building techniques and simple safety procedures can significantly reduce all of those hazards. Wizards are going to want payment for their services, and wizards aren't cheap. A few septims a day will probably keep a laborer happy, and a thousand septims a day will keep a wizard happy.

Im pretty sure safety procedures didn't exist in the medieval ages. If you died you died.

And given what they make you pay in the games to upgrade your skill in any number of magic schools, I think wizards would be satisfied with a couple hundred septims a day unless they are some super amazing one like a court wizard or something.

I think the only thing that would really upgrade it to a thousand a day is if you were using wizards that dabbled in necromancy that could use the dead corpses of carpenters and masons to work on the buildings. That way they are already dead so if they fall off a building or get crushed theres nothing really to worry about. And zombies don't need to take breaks or get tired so theres that.

lol

[Ameige]

Im pretty sure safety procedures didn't exist in the medieval ages. If you died you died.

And given what they make you pay in the games to upgrade your skill in any number of magic schools, I think wizards would be satisfied with a couple hundred septims a day unless they are some super amazing one like a court wizard or something.

I think the only thing that would really upgrade it to a thousand a day is if you were using wizards that dabbled in necromancy that could use the dead corpses of carpenters and masons to work on the buildings. That way they are already dead so if they fall off a building or get crushed theres nothing really to worry about. And zombies don't need to take breaks or get tired so theres that.

lol

why is that funny? I was planning on having my vampire chick eventually go back to cracked dusk keep and use zombies of people to help her fix it up.

Not that hard. People can hammer things in and set up brick walls while they were alive if they had been motivated to. No reason they cant when you reanimate their bodies.

And zombies don't get tired so until the spell wears off you can have them work 24/7.
Makes it much faster for building a town to get finished.

[The Olog-Hai]

lol

why is that funny? I was planning on having my vampire chick eventually go back to cracked dusk keep and use zombies of people to help her fix it up.

Not that hard. People can hammer things in and set up brick walls while they were alive if they had been motivated to. No reason they cant when you reanimate their bodies.

And zombies don't get tired so until the spell wears off you can have them work 24/7.
Makes it much faster for building a town to get finished.

But don't the bodies like disintegrate into piles of ash after the spell is over? That'd make you run out soon...
Please, correct my limited knowledge if I'm wrong. Maybe that was just for gameplay.

[Ameige]

why is that funny? I was planning on having my vampire chick eventually go back to cracked dusk keep and use zombies of people to help her fix it up.

Not that hard. People can hammer things in and set up brick walls while they were alive if they had been motivated to. No reason they cant when you reanimate their bodies.

And zombies don't get tired so until the spell wears off you can have them work 24/7.
Makes it much faster for building a town to get finished.

But don't the bodies like disintegrate into piles of ash after the spell is over? That'd make you run out soon...
Please, correct my limited knowledge if I'm wrong. Maybe that was just for gameplay.

I think that is purely game mechanics for skyrim. I played morrowind and oblivion as well and I don't remember zombies turning into piles of ashes after the spell wore off.

Besides, with bandits being constantly around and the war going on, there are bound to be plenty of dead carpenters/masons around to reanimate if they exist.

Just a matter of hiring some necromancers that just so happen to know some offensive spells like fire and lightning based things to be able to keep things in working order and you should be able to finish a decent sized town in a month or two if you have all the right materials and equipment.

[The Olog-Hai]

But don't the bodies like disintegrate into piles of ash after the spell is over? That'd make you run out soon...
Please, correct my limited knowledge if I'm wrong. Maybe that was just for gameplay.

I think that is purely game mechanics for skyrim. I played morrowind and oblivion as well and I don't remember zombies turning into piles of ashes after the spell wore off.

Besides, with bandits being constantly around and the war going on, there are bound to be plenty of dead carpenters/masons around to reanimate if they exist.

Just a matter of hiring some necromancers that just so happen to know some offensive spells like fire and lightning based things to be able to keep things in working order and you should be able to finish a decent sized town in a month or two if you have all the right materials and equipment.

It'd cost quite the pretty penny, though.
Say, did your vampire ever use up all the money acquired from stealing my shipment? Or did I get it back?
Oh, that was so long ago...

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

Zombies would make shit laborers

Rotten limbs aren't good for carrying things

[Transoxthraxia]

Zombies would make shit laborers

Rotten limbs aren't good for carrying things

hey man, magic

[Ameige]

Zombies would make shit laborers

Rotten limbs aren't good for carrying things

That's why you use fresh corpses. I've reanimated bandits right after I killed them and they were still able to wield heavy swords and things just fine.

Plus I was under the impression that people prepared their dead kinda like mummies. all embalming them and stuff. Look at the draugr in skyrim. several generations or maybe even centuries old and still walking around wielding swords and battle axes and stuff.

[Transoxthraxia]

Zombies would make shit laborers

Rotten limbs aren't good for carrying things

That's why you use fresh corpses. I've reanimated bandits right after I killed them and they were still able to wield heavy swords and things just fine.

Plus I was under the impression that people prepared their dead kinda like mummies. all embalming them and stuff. Look at the draugr in skyrim. several generations or maybe even centuries old and still walking around wielding swords and battle axes and stuff.

That's Nords, though. And explained away through /gameplay challenges/. Tbf it's utterly ludicrous to assume everybody mummifies their dead just because they do it in Skyrim.

[Ameige]

That's why you use fresh corpses. I've reanimated bandits right after I killed them and they were still able to wield heavy swords and things just fine.

Plus I was under the impression that people prepared their dead kinda like mummies. all embalming them and stuff. Look at the draugr in skyrim. several generations or maybe even centuries old and still walking around wielding swords and battle axes and stuff.

That's Nords, though. And explained away through /gameplay challenges/. Tbf it's utterly ludicrous to assume everybody mummifies their dead just because they do it in Skyrim.

Well maybe not poor people but if you go into the hall of the dead in the big cities, its pretty clear that the people in charge of making the dead ready for burial have learned something at least similar to the nords. A few of them even give you hints at what they do in the preparation ceremony and they have similar tools to that of the ancient nord tools for embalming the dead.

They even call some of their tools "embalming tools" and you can find "ancient nord embalming tools" in the draugr tombs.

edit: didn't see the skyrim comment till just now. Yeah they might not do things like that outside skyrim but inside skyrim that's how they do it so that's the best place to get good corpses.

And my Breton character either has to go through skyrim to catch a boat straight to solstheim or go all the way to morrowind and then to vardenfell and then to solstheim. One is going to be a much longer way around of doing things than the other.

[Transoxthraxia]

That's Nords, though. And explained away through /gameplay challenges/. Tbf it's utterly ludicrous to assume everybody mummifies their dead just because they do it in Skyrim.

Well maybe not poor people but if you go into the hall of the dead in the big cities, its pretty clear that the people in charge of making the dead ready for burial have learned something at least similar to the nords. A few of them even give you hints at what they do in the preparation ceremony and they have similar tools to that of the ancient nord tools for embalming the dead.

They even call some of their tools "embalming tools" and you can find "ancient nord embalming tools" in the draugr tombs.

... So why would you use the dead corpses of rich people to do your hard labour? If anything, they'd be the last ones you'd use.

[Ameige]

Well maybe not poor people but if you go into the hall of the dead in the big cities, its pretty clear that the people in charge of making the dead ready for burial have learned something at least similar to the nords. A few of them even give you hints at what they do in the preparation ceremony and they have similar tools to that of the ancient nord tools for embalming the dead.

They even call some of their tools "embalming tools" and you can find "ancient nord embalming tools" in the draugr tombs.

... So why would you use the dead corpses of rich people to do your hard labour? If anything, they'd be the last ones you'd use.

It wouldn't have to be super rich people. I wouldn't use the corpses of the silver bloods or anything.
When I said poor people I meant anyone outside the big cities. people in dragonsbridge and rorikstead might not embalm their dead and do all the fancy stuff.

Having visited the big cities, Im under the impression all the people in the cities get the same death preparing procedure regardless of who they are unless they are beggars. Then they just get tossed into the nearest river. But all the other people get embalmed and get their bodies preserved and all that stuff. Just the rich people probably pay for extra stuff to make their burial more fancy.

There is usually one or two people doing the whole processes for the entire city so its safe to assume they aren't going to change up the way they prepare one dead body to another, back and forth depending on whether they are rich or not. They are going to stick to one or two types of ways of doing things. Otherwise they would be pulling their hair out in frustration wondering which type of mummification they are supposed to do to each and every body.