Fallout: Pyrrhic Victory Reboot (OOC)

[Ameige]

What they have is a giant howitzer. Do you know what a howitzer is? A giant gun that is meant to blow things up.
Usually things flying in the air. This thing can reduce a house to a pile of sticks as seen by the destroyed town in front of their base.

What do you think it can do to a vertibird?

And yes their rocket launchers are few and far in between. Point is they have them. And as seen in fallout 4, they can take out really big things. Like for instance a helicarrier type thing the brotherhood of steel has, which is much bigger than a vertibird.

And even if a vertibird or two did manage to land, it would be a simple act of shooting the thing with rockets as it is making its landing, or right as the people are getting out. Lots of time between landing and people getting out, that a vertibird is defenseless against missile attacks.

No, they don't have a giant howitzer. They have many small howitzers. Like the Legion's howitzer at Fortification Hill. And howitzers most definitely aren't meant to shoot down things that fly. They're artillery, not AA. They have neither the rate of fire or the tracking speed to reliably take down a flying vehicle.

Doesn't matter what it can do if it can't hit it.

They have them. And yes, they can take down Vertibirds. But these are unguided launchers, and they don't have very many or large stocks of ammo for them.

And there isn't much time between landing and disembarking, if you look at the Enclave in 3.

Point is, Boomers are dead. If NCR and Brotherhood couldn't withstand the Enclave, the Boomers most certianly can't.

Ok first off you got multiple things wrong there. First off, the prolog makes it clear the NCR was destroyed in their infancy. They didn't have a large army or lots of weapons. They were easy slaughter. Secondly, the brotherhood was fighting both the enclave and the master, they had no choice but to retreat. They couldn't fight two sides at once.

The boomers have only to deal with whoever tries to get into their base. And most people by now, know not to try cause of their shelling attacks.

So no, unless the OP says otherwise, they are not dead. They have plenty of weapons able to explode things, according to the wikia they have multiple howitzers, and I have played the game, that gun is freaking huge!!

They do not have multiple enemy factions trying to fight them all at once.
They are not some infant nation caught with their pants down before they could build a decent army or whatever.

They are a bunch of people, who, almost all that aren't children, know how to use some kind of gun.

and they don't need to guide the launchers. Just aim in front of the vertibird and by the time it gets to where it's going, the shell will be there. Or they will try to avoid the shell and have one of the hand held launchers attack them instead. Either way, the vertibird goes down and the boomers don't die.

[Ameige]

Prehaps so, but anti air guns like those AA guns probably shoot small bullets that can be shot repeatedly I would imagine. I am not exactly sure the size of a howitzer shell but I would imagine it would be near the size of a mini nuke. Kinda hard to dodge that unless you are fast.

According to every cutscene I have seen with a vertibird, they are not built for speed. They are slightly faster than the Prydwen but not by much. Besides, its common knowledge to not try to hit at where your opponent is, but where they are going to be, meaning hit towards the empty space right in front of them cause by the time whatever it is, gets there, there is a good chance the enemy will have managed to get there just in time to be hit.

Vertibirds are fast enough so that a howitzer, which isn't designed to rotate very fast (another feature of AA guns) can't have a hope in hell of tracking them properly, and even if it could it doesn't have the sighting gear or the mechanical computers required for leading an aircraft properly.

then you use the howitzer as a distraction and hit them with a fat man when they are trying to avoid the shell.

Remember, a lot of the enclave forces are battling with the master right now. How many vertibirds do you think they can really spare for a tiny run down military base?

[Lunas Legion]

Vertibirds are fast enough so that a howitzer, which isn't designed to rotate very fast (another feature of AA guns) can't have a hope in hell of tracking them properly, and even if it could it doesn't have the sighting gear or the mechanical computers required for leading an aircraft properly.

then you use the howitzer as a distraction and hit them with a fat man when they are trying to avoid the shell.

Fat Men fire in an arc. No way you'll be able to hit an aircraft with an arced weapon. It would be like trying to hit an aircraft with a mortar.

[Lunas Legion]

Also, based on that X-01 Power Armour (a.k.a Enclave) can casually tank Mini-Nukes in Fallout 4, I don't think the howitzers will be all that effective. Especally since they'd have to spread them around, since the Enclave can land it's troops outside howitzer range and then head in.

Or send in guys with stealth boys, sabotage the howitzers and follow up with an assault.

[Ameige]

then you use the howitzer as a distraction and hit them with a fat man when they are trying to avoid the shell.

Fat Men fire in an arc. No way you'll be able to hit an aircraft with an arced weapon. It would be like trying to hit an aircraft with a mortar.

have you ever played fallout 4? It can be done just fine. Besides they have had fat mans or fat men or whatever the plural is, at least since they took over the base if not before. Don't you think they practiced a few times? Anything can hit an aircraft if you aim it right.

Besides it doesn't have to be a fat man. a grenade launcher in the rotor blades or a missile launcher anywhere on it's body, its going down.

[Liecthenbourg]

No, they don't have a giant howitzer. They have many small howitzers. Like the Legion's howitzer at Fortification Hill. And howitzers most definitely aren't meant to shoot down things that fly. They're artillery, not AA. They have neither the rate of fire or the tracking speed to reliably take down a flying vehicle.

Doesn't matter what it can do if it can't hit it.

They have them. And yes, they can take down Vertibirds. But these are unguided launchers, and they don't have very many or large stocks of ammo for them.

And there isn't much time between landing and disembarking, if you look at the Enclave in 3.

Point is, Boomers are dead. If NCR and Brotherhood couldn't withstand the Enclave, the Boomers most certianly can't.

Ok first off you got multiple things wrong there. First off, the prolog makes it clear the NCR was destroyed in their infancy. They didn't have a large army or lots of weapons. They were easy slaughter. Secondly, the brotherhood was fighting both the enclave and the master, they had no choice but to retreat. They couldn't fight two sides at once.

The boomers have only to deal with whoever tries to get into their base. And most people by now, know not to try cause of their shelling attacks.

So no, unless the OP says otherwise, they are not dead. They have plenty of weapons able to explode things, according to the wikia they have multiple howitzers, and I have played the game, that gun is freaking huge!!

They do not have multiple enemy factions trying to fight them all at once.
They are not some infant nation caught with their pants down before they could build a decent army or whatever.

They are a bunch of people, who, almost all that aren't children, know how to use some kind of gun.

and they don't need to guide the launchers. Just aim in front of the vertibird and by the time it gets to where it's going, the shell will be there. Or they will try to avoid the shell and have one of the hand held launchers attack them instead. Either way, the vertibird goes down and the boomers don't die.

Oh, so you've played the game? So you know you can dodge those shells on foot. Vertibirds are significantly faster than people on foot.

Additionally, you are right. The NCR and the Brotherhood were caught with their pants down. But the Brotherhood had Power Armour and still got beaten. I'm not questioning that the Boomers have a great defence - they do, really, but its only geared towards ground targets. Why? Because there is nothing in the air in significant number to actually pose a threat. The AA guns in the Fallout Universe are situated on Hoover Dam, and those are good at shooting down Vertibirds (RIP KIMBALL LIVED A GOOD LIFE)

As aforementioned they lack a reliable source of rapid firing weaponry to actually be able to hit the vertibirds manually. They lack weapons that rotate fast enough to kill vertibirds. They lack AA. I'm not saying that an Enclave Invasion of Nellis would be totally one sided - lucky shots are not unheard of, attacking the Enclave on foot gives them a better chance just because of all those ground target based weaponry.

Something we all seem to be forgetting is the fact vertibirds have offensive capabilities and according to the wiki these are the following: "The Vertibird has a heavily armored fuselage and can be outfitted with a variety of offensive weapons and defensive countermeasures, the most common being Gatling lasers, missile racks, and a mini nuke bed."

Keyword I suppose is can, but knowing the Enclave they're bound to have a good amount (Probably not nearly as much as the transport ones) of these offensive fitted vertibirds.

In short: If the Enclave wants to commit to taking Nellis, they can do it. It may be costly on the ground, it may be explosivey, but it can be done with relatively all vertibirds intact.

[Ameige]

Also, based on that X-01 Power Armour (a.k.a Enclave) can casually tank Mini-Nukes in Fallout 4, I don't think the howitzers will be all that effective. Especally since they'd have to spread them around, since the Enclave can land it's troops outside howitzer range and then head in.

Or send in guys with stealth boys, sabotage the howitzers and follow up with an assault.

"out of the howitzers range".... seriously? have you played fallout new vegas? there is no "out of their range".
The moment you come through the tiny one person passage and into their sights, they can hit you.
And that's across the ruins of a small town in front of them. and they keep hitting you until your practically up against the fence.

And you just proved my point about the howitzers. multiple that they can spread around. If one doesn't hit the vertibird, the next one will or the next. The enclave don't have an unlimited amount of vertibirds and they are fighting the master. I dunno if they are still fighting the legion, but if they are there's that too. limited vertibirds, limited troops, fighting one or two other sides on top of trying to land in that little base. My point is, multiple different ways to take down a vertibird. If one or two miss, the others wont.

And I was only using the pyrdwyn's destruction as an example of what a mini-nuke can do. Im not sure if fallout 4 stuff is supposed to be here or not. Ask the OP.

[Ameige]

Ok first off you got multiple things wrong there. First off, the prolog makes it clear the NCR was destroyed in their infancy. They didn't have a large army or lots of weapons. They were easy slaughter. Secondly, the brotherhood was fighting both the enclave and the master, they had no choice but to retreat. They couldn't fight two sides at once.

The boomers have only to deal with whoever tries to get into their base. And most people by now, know not to try cause of their shelling attacks.

So no, unless the OP says otherwise, they are not dead. They have plenty of weapons able to explode things, according to the wikia they have multiple howitzers, and I have played the game, that gun is freaking huge!!

They do not have multiple enemy factions trying to fight them all at once.
They are not some infant nation caught with their pants down before they could build a decent army or whatever.

They are a bunch of people, who, almost all that aren't children, know how to use some kind of gun.

and they don't need to guide the launchers. Just aim in front of the vertibird and by the time it gets to where it's going, the shell will be there. Or they will try to avoid the shell and have one of the hand held launchers attack them instead. Either way, the vertibird goes down and the boomers don't die.

Oh, so you've played the game? So you know you can dodge those shells on foot. Vertibirds are significantly faster than people on foot.

Additionally, you are right. The NCR and the Brotherhood were caught with their pants down. But the Brotherhood had Power Armour and still got beaten. I'm not questioning that the Boomers have a great defence - they do, really, but its only geared towards ground targets. Why? Because there is nothing in the air in significant number to actually pose a threat. The AA guns in the Fallout Universe are situated on Hoover Dam, and those are good at shooting down Vertibirds (RIP KIMBALL LIVED A GOOD LIFE)

As aforementioned they lack a reliable source of rapid firing weaponry to actually be able to hit the vertibirds manually. They lack weapons that rotate fast enough to kill vertibirds. They lack AA. I'm not saying that an Enclave Invasion of Nellis would be totally one sided - lucky shots are not unheard of, attacking the Enclave on foot gives them a better chance just because of all those ground target based weaponry.

Something we all seem to be forgetting is the fact vertibirds have offensive capabilities and according to the wiki these are the following: "The Vertibird has a heavily armored fuselage and can be outfitted with a variety of offensive weapons and defensive countermeasures, the most common being Gatling lasers, missile racks, and a mini nuke bed."

Keyword I suppose is can, but knowing the Enclave they're bound to have a good amount (Probably not nearly as much as the transport ones) of these offensive fitted vertibirds.

In short: If the Enclave wants to commit to taking Nellis, they can do it. It may be costly on the ground, it may be explosivey, but it can be done with relatively all vertibirds intact.

Yes I have played the game and as I recall, the only way to not die by their consistent bombardment is to dodge behind several large rocks at the back edge of the area. You step one toe out from behind the rocks when those shells are coming down and your dead.
I died several times before learning that.

And I don't know which vertibirds your quoting but I don't recall any of the vertibirds in the game having a mini nuke bed, seeing as that is reserved for bomber planes, and the only one with gatling lasers was a brotherhood of steel vertibird in fallout 3.

secondly, if they were to have these I would think they would be most likely used on the actual enemies like the master and the legion, and very unlikely to be wasted on a handful of people with rocket launchers. What do they really have that the enclave would want? the enclave already have better equipment, the boomers have no working vehicles, flying or otherwise, they don't post a threat to anyone that isn't trying to get all up in their business.. It would be costly and a waste on the enclave's part.

And only a handful of vertibirds could fly in that area at once. that is a small area. you got multiple howitzers and 5 vertibirds. at least one or 2 of them is getting hit. Plus grenade launchers, missile launchers, fat mans. tons of different kinds of explosive things all trying to hit the vertibirds at once. some of them are going down before the boomers die. Plus, as seen by every game the enclave have been in, they don't outfit many vertibirds in weapons. They were at war with the brotherhood of steel in fallout 3. they had multiple vertibirds. None of them had weapons on them. They know better than to waste weapon tech on people they don't see as much of a threat.

Now then, with that being said, if they had stealth boys and just walked right in, being all invisible and stuff. Then yeah, the boomers would be pretty much screwed cause they couldn't see them coming. But as long as the many howitzers are up and most of the boomers have weapons to explode in the air, the vertibirds aren't going to land in boomer territory unless its in a flaming crash.
They have too much gear.

Plus not many places for a vertibird to land in that area. They are not small. Just a matter of aiming the howitzers anywhere these flying machines can land, and its all over. Plus they can only do one thing at a time. If they are trying to use these gatling lazers or missiles to destroy the howitzers then they are not trying to stop the 5 different rocket launchers or handful of fat mans coming at them. Got to think about that.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

By the way, I finally got an IC post up. It would've been up nine and a half hours ago, before I went to bed, but after losing everything I had written, twice in a row, because of me accidentally backspacing out of the page, I decided to say fuck it and write it when I woke up. Honestly, I didn't really do anything in the post; I mainly just summarized the current state of the Church, because I didn't have anything else to write about, really.

[Lunas Legion]

YOLO'd my way across that field by charging in with T-51b. If I can do it in T-51b, the Enclave can do it in their suits.

Wiki article > game experience. It's called balance.

Nellis is an Air Force Base and well away from Enclave's enemies and sitting on the main route northwards for supplies.

Vertibirds need places to land.

Yeah, they're going to want Nellis.


Whoever said they'd land in Boomer territory? Drop off forces outside sight range while flying low, then combined air-ground assault. Can't fire the howitzers at both Vertibirds and ground troops, and power armour was designed to tank missiles and the like. Dead Boomers.

Also, the OP says they're dead, IIRC, so congrats on not reading OP and thus wasting everyone's time.

[Ameige]

YOLO'd my way across that field by charging in with T-51b. If I can do it in T-51b, the Enclave can do it in their suits.

Wiki article > game experience. It's called balance.

Nellis is an Air Force Base and well away from Enclave's enemies and sitting on the main route northwards for supplies.

Vertibirds need places to land.

Yeah, they're going to want Nellis.


Whoever said they'd land in Boomer territory? Drop off forces outside sight range while flying low, then combined air-ground assault. Can't fire the howitzers at both Vertibirds and ground troops, and power armour was designed to tank missiles and the like. Dead Boomers.

Also, the OP says they're dead, IIRC, so congrats on not reading OP and thus wasting everyone's time.

I read the prolog on the first page. Didn't see anything about dead boomers. But your welcome.
And you could have started with saying that and also saved everyone's time. What OP says goes.
I didn't know OP said that so I was debating it.

But yes you do have a good point. Howitzers cant aim at two things at once. even with multiple of them.
Dropping troops in just beyond the territory and having them trek in while vertibirds are in the air would be a good idea.
I honestly didn't think of that.

[Ameige]

Ok so here is the new issue. Why haven't the enclave taken over the base? Last I heard it was abandoned. Whats the point of wiping out the inhabitants if your not going to use the place? Waste of ammunition. Plus your just leaving rotting corpses lying around.
Unsanitary.

[Lunas Legion]

That's probably how Nellis fell. Combined arms assault.

TBH, I'm ashamed for not thinking of it earlier. Basically every war since 1930 has had combined arms be a vital part of it.

Well, the OP had the Enclave's main base as Nellis.

What can I say, I enjoy arguing things. Can never pass up an opportunity for a non-NSG argument.

You could probably do Boomer remnants somewhere. Camp Guardian, perhaps. Brotherhood doesn't need it any more, too isolated.

[North America Inc]

By the way, I finally got an IC post up. It would've been up nine and a half hours ago, before I went to bed, but after losing everything I had written, twice in a row, because of me accidentally backspacing out of the page, I decided to say fuck it and write it when I woke up. Honestly, I didn't really do anything in the post; I mainly just summarized the current state of the Church, because I didn't have anything else to write about, really.

Would you like to help me with the House Always wins quest?

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Would you like to help me with the House Always wins quest?

Sure, His Holiness the Pope could certainly be persuaded to sign a concordat with House supporting his rise to power, in exchange for certain concessions to the Church.

[Ameige]

That's probably how Nellis fell. Combined arms assault.

TBH, I'm ashamed for not thinking of it earlier. Basically every war since 1930 has had combined arms be a vital part of it.

Well, the OP had the Enclave's main base as Nellis.

What can I say, I enjoy arguing things. Can never pass up an opportunity for a non-NSG argument.

You could probably do Boomer remnants somewhere. Camp Guardian, perhaps. Brotherhood doesn't need it any more, too isolated.

well how many groups are we allowed to have? If we can have multiple, I might try that.

My main hope was to build some sort of suburbia out of camp delta and camp forlorn hope with some sort of behemoth fence keeping out unwanted bad guys like the legion. And maybe throw in some laser turrets.
But yeah... enclave refugees that have fled oppression for not being first class citizens.

Still not sure what that entails. I will look back a few pages to my question but I don't think it was ever really answered.
what a D class citizen is.

Right now Im assuming its anyone who wasn't born in a vault or an enclave base. Im not sure if its more complicated or not.

[Ameige]

By the way, I finally got an IC post up. It would've been up nine and a half hours ago, before I went to bed, but after losing everything I had written, twice in a row, because of me accidentally backspacing out of the page, I decided to say fuck it and write it when I woke up. Honestly, I didn't really do anything in the post; I mainly just summarized the current state of the Church, because I didn't have anything else to write about, really.

Would you like to help me with the House Always wins quest?

errr... what "church" would this be? the Christian faith was kinda eradicated due to the war except for that one girl in point look out in fallout 3.

[Liecthenbourg]

Would you like to help me with the House Always wins quest?

errr... what "church" would this be? the Christian faith was kinda eradicated due to the war except for that one girl in point look out in fallout 3.

The Catholic Church functions in Rivet City.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

errr... what "church" would this be? the Christian faith was kinda eradicated due to the war except for that one girl in point look out in fallout 3.

What the fuck are you talking about? Clearly you didn't play the Honest Hearts DLC for New Vegas, which pretty clearly shows that there are still religious people in the wasteland.

Either way, we're talking about the Catholic Church; I made an application for the remnants of the Catholic Church in Nevada. If you had read the roster, or actually read through the OOC and looked at the applications, you would know that.

[Ameige]

errr... what "church" would this be? the Christian faith was kinda eradicated due to the war except for that one girl in point look out in fallout 3.

The Catholic Church functions in Rivet City.

Really? Neat. I did not know that one for sure. I knew it was some sort of religion. Didn't know it was catholic. Cool.

I wonder if non canon religions are allowed.

[Baelish Fingers]

The Mormon Church is still existent even if scattered could a join as one of these schattered groups.

[Ameige]

The Mormon Church is still existent even if scattered could a join as one of these schattered groups.

Ah that is true. And seeing as the only canon Mormons were Joshua graham and the new canaanites, a new group of Mormons could switch around the rules of what it is to be a Mormon and no one would be left to say otherwise. or at least no big group cause new canaan was destroyed.

I never really understood the concept of you can have multiple marriage partners but you cannot drink. Not good combination.

I have seen enough sitcoms to know there are certain people who need to drink just to get through having one marriage partner.

Multiple and not being able to drink? They wouldn't last long. So this group of Mormons will change the rules and allow drinking so everyone can be happy... ish.

And no I am not trying to be political or whatever. Im just saying Im going to treat this little tidbit like a sitcom situation.

[Ironsbad]

Ok, that's a lot of pages to go through, glad I did it now instead of later.

[North America Inc]

Would you like to help me with the House Always wins quest?

Sure, His Holiness the Pope could certainly be persuaded to sign a concordat with House supporting his rise to power, in exchange for certain concessions to the Church.

What would you like?

[Ameige]

ok soo the app confuses me. The protagonist is the player character right? So wouldn't the leader of the faction be the protagonist?