Fallout: Pyrrhic Victory Reboot (OOC)

[New Aksarben]

true. But as I said, would there be a working or workable factory in California? Who knows where the places they produced fusion cores were?

and fusion is radiation, silly

The NCR has working factories just fine in the various games and they are less technologically equipped than the enclave.
And in the base new vegas game, the steel mill is currently functional and run soley by insane robots.

The only issue I would see about it is like you said, where to find the materials and being able to figure out which factory would support the building of the things. But its the enclave, so I am pretty sure they could figure it out now that the NCR is gone.

They would just have to keep an eye on the master while they do it, or just stay out of his section of California. Besides, he lives in a vault. Just send some power armored soldiers in there to weed out the super mutants in there, slap a satchel charge on the vault's power source, which seems to be explosive in lore (see both the master's vault and ravenrock), and blow it up.

its safe to assume any power source is nuclear, the sources of oil, coal, etc were dried up long ago in canon.

yes, but they didn't have like fusion core factories I mean, that's a very complicated thing to make

But that's also true, with them meeting in vegas they might start warring back in california too, to attempt to break each other's leadership since they share such an extensive border.

[Ameige]

The NCR has working factories just fine in the various games and they are less technologically equipped than the enclave.
And in the base new vegas game, the steel mill is currently functional and run soley by insane robots.

The only issue I would see about it is like you said, where to find the materials and being able to figure out which factory would support the building of the things. But its the enclave, so I am pretty sure they could figure it out now that the NCR is gone.

They would just have to keep an eye on the master while they do it, or just stay out of his section of California. Besides, he lives in a vault. Just send some power armored soldiers in there to weed out the super mutants in there, slap a satchel charge on the vault's power source, which seems to be explosive in lore (see both the master's vault and ravenrock), and blow it up.

its safe to assume any power source is nuclear, the sources of oil, coal, etc were dried up long ago in canon.

yes, but they didn't have like fusion core factories I mean, that's a very complicated thing to make

But that's also true, with them meeting in vegas they might start warring back in california too, to attempt to break each other's leadership since they share such an extensive border.

The enclave would have the pre-war knowledge on how to build the things and nuclear scientists would have been important for awhile, at least before the oil rig blew up. All they would need to do is repurpose a factory made for constructing something else and make it work to build fusion cores.

Sure maybe not right away but in the games, the NCR has been around for like what, 150 years or something? And with them being wiped out pretty much in the cradle, the enclave would have had plenty of time to figure out how to retrofit a factory for whatever purposes they needed.

And yes, in the game some random guy from the wastes was either able to blow up the master's vault or convince the master he had created something horrible and should blow it up out of guilt.

That was just some random guy. Not several trained power armored enclave soldiers.
Think how much more damage they can do to the master if just one guy could have done that.
He didn't in this version mind you, but you get the idea..

And while we are on the subject... in every game I have played, the BOS has had a #$%! load of power armor.
Aside from the scribes and the noobs, most of their people had some sort of power armor. They had to be getting the cores from somewhere.

[New Aksarben]

Actually, it would take a lot more now, as that guy got to the vault but was killed. he realized his weakness so probably is fortified to hell now, and in the center of a growing empire.

would have to get through hordes of mutants just to get there, without vertibirds!

[Ameige]

Actually, it would take a lot more now, as that guy got to the vault but was killed. he realized his weakness so probably is fortified to hell now, and in the center of a growing empire.

would have to get through hordes of mutants just to get there, without vertibirds!

Well I didn't think about the possibility of the master realizing his screw up and fortifying himself afterwords, that's a good point.

But Im pretty sure using mini nuke launchers and flamers on the super mutants should work fine if you have enough. Maybe some miniguns too.

Or just have the enclave find the divide's nuclear stockpile and nuke the super mutants. I'm not sure if they are ammune to radiation or not,
but I am pretty sure they aren't ammune to a direct hit from a thermonuclear explosion.

Plus, if the nuke lands close enough to the vault, it could probably cave in any entrance/exit areas and seal the master and his cronies inside for a few hundred years.

[Ameige]

Assuming the boomers haven't been found yet, having someone befriend them and do their quest to rise the bomber from the bottom of lake mead should work. It worked in the game and got the boomers to help the player bomb the crap out of fortification hill.

Should be able to work here too if you aren't a total asshole about it. I feel like the boomers are probably the only group that knows for sure about the sunken bomber and probably one of the new with the capability to fix it, aside from maybe the enclave.
But they were on an oil rig for many years, I don't think they brought people with them to fix planes and things.

So be nice to the boomers, get the bomber for them, they will fix it up and bomb the crap out of the legion.
Caeser dies, legion is leaderless and scatters to the winds.

[Plzen]

So be nice to the boomers, get the bomber for them, they will fix it up and bomb the crap out of the legion.
Caeser dies, legion is leaderless and scatters to the winds.

I don't think it's that simple. If some random minor faction can get their hands on that much explosives and technical expertise... that could have some interesting consequences.

[The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism]

Boomers are scattered or dead by Enclave.

Also, uuuggghghghgh RIP my post, we hardly knew ye. I'll try again another time, I hate when that happens.

[Ameige]

Boomers are scattered or dead by Enclave.

Also, uuuggghghghgh RIP my post, we hardly knew ye. I'll try again another time, I hate when that happens.

How? the boomers have that giant gun that blows away anyone that comes close.
Seeing as they dragged it from some sort of military base, if memory serves correctly, it probably could shoot down vertibirds too.

Plus, from the stories about them, its a safe bet they either have enough of the ammunition to keep many people at bay,
or enough people tried to get in and had to run away due to the bombs and the story of this place that bombs the crap out of you if you get too close started flooding around enough to keep people away and they didn't have to waste a lot of their ammo for the gun in the first place,
thus giving them enough left over if vertibirds tried coming over.

[Ameige]

So be nice to the boomers, get the bomber for them, they will fix it up and bomb the crap out of the legion.
Caeser dies, legion is leaderless and scatters to the winds.

I don't think it's that simple. If some random minor faction can get their hands on that much explosives and technical expertise... that could have some interesting consequences.

The consequence is that any one who tries to get close gets shelled all to hell. They have been there for many, many years.
Possibly since the oil rig times. There wasn't anyone out there to stop them from getting there except the occasional raider party.

The legion was either non-existent or just starting out, the enclave, I would guess, would just be getting off the oil rig and probably dealing with the NCR, the brotherhood of steel never seemed to give a crap about them even in the game...

No reason to think anything stopped them from getting there and setting up.
And as I stated before, that huge ass gun they have,
which I am guessing is the reason all the houses are skeletal frames, probably could shoot a vertibird out of the sky.
No reason to think anyone could have done anything to them since they got there.

[Illan]

Holy shit this jumped a lot of pages while I was sleeping.

[Ameige]

Ok so here's a thing. Electricty doesn't just have to come from cold fusion and a dam.
Apparently, according to a video on old onley (fallout 3), the enclave use an array of tesla coils to produce electricity. So... that's a thing I guess.

Also... and I totally forgot all about this till just now. In fallout 3, the enclave have managed to trap a supermutant behemoth behind an electric fence. This means they managed to get a chain link fence strong enough that a behemoth cant knock it down and enough electricity pumping through it to keep the giant thing from trying to.

Soo yeah... just need to replicate that and put it around the land areas outside of town and the legion cant get to the people.
Or anyone without a vertibird for that matter.

[Lunas Legion]

The Enclave have Vertibirds. Guess what conventional artillery's main weakness is?

Being subject to air attack.

Conventional artillery, which is what the Boomers have, is basically useless against aircraft. They don't have any AA guns or SAM launchers and their stock of missile launchers and missiles is limited, considering they couldn't clear out a Fire Ant nest.

The Enclave would just shock and awe their way into Nellis in a lightning assault, and once they're on the ground in Nellis the Boomers are toast.

[Ameige]

The Enclave have Vertibirds. Guess what conventional artillery's main weakness is?

Being subject to air attack.

Conventional artillery, which is what the Boomers have, is basically useless against aircraft. They don't have any AA guns or SAM launchers and their stock of missile launchers and missiles is limited, considering they couldn't clear out a Fire Ant nest.

The Enclave would just shock and awe their way into Nellis in a lightning assault, and once they're on the ground in Nellis the Boomers are toast.

What they have is a giant howitzer. Do you know what a howitzer is? A giant gun that is meant to blow things up.
Usually things flying in the air. This thing can reduce a house to a pile of sticks as seen by the destroyed town in front of their base.

What do you think it can do to a vertibird?

And yes their rocket launchers are few and far in between. Point is they have them. And as seen in fallout 4, they can take out really big things. Like for instance a helicarrier type thing the brotherhood of steel has, which is much bigger than a vertibird.

And even if a vertibird or two did manage to land, it would be a simple act of shooting the thing with rockets as it is making its landing, or right as the people are getting out. Lots of time between landing and people getting out, that a vertibird is defenseless against missile attacks.

[Ameige]

This is a post right from the fallout wikia describing the boomer's technology.

"Coming from one of the most heavily-armed Vaults in existence, Boomers are extremely well-equipped. They each have a Pip-Boy 3000 and are well versed in the use of explosives. They have missile launchers, grenade launchers, fat mans, and many old military howitzers that they use to repel anyone trying to make their way to the base. Many Mister Gutsy robots have been reprogrammed by the Boomers to protect them. These robots can also break down and transport large objects quickly and efficiently, as stated by Loyal regarding the extraction of the bomber they are aiming to acquire. "

Now personally in the game I only remember seeing one howitzer which was used to keep people away from the main gate.

But I guess that was just a game mechanic so you wouldn't waste your time trying not to run into a howitzer every 5 feet or something.

Point is, they are well armed and can defend themselves against anything, including vertibirds.

And they are backed by a large empty field of radiation still too deadly to go in even 200 years later.

So if you can explain how the enclave, or anyone else for that matter, can get past all of that, be my guest.

Pretty much anything hand held that can launch an explosive, they have multiple of, and apparently several howitzers, which can streach pretty high into the sky cause there is an article about the NCR trying to shut off their water supply all the way from one of the water supply stations in the wasteland. They shelled the NCR until they turned the water back on.

Meaning those howitzers have to be able to angle pretty high towards the sky to get that kind of distance. Vertibirds fly in the sky.
They can shoot them down.

[Illan]

Could I have a mobile base similar in principal to the Adams Air Force Base crawler or the Prydwen? Although it would be situated on the ground.

[Liecthenbourg]

I'm just curious. Whom has howitzers in this RP?

Also: I assumed someone had Nellis Airforce Base. Would it be okay if the Expeditionary Force was only situated there, instead of the Pump Station, if nobody occupies it? If not, its fine.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

I'm just curious. Whom has howitzers in this RP?

Also: I assumed someone had Nellis Airforce Base. Would it be okay if the Expeditionary Force was only situated there, instead of the Pump Station, if nobody occupies it? If not, its fine.

I don't really think a handful of robots would be able to conquer a military base filled with people armed with a vast arsenal of military-grade explosives, to be honest.

[Ameige]

I'm just curious. Whom has howitzers in this RP?

Also: I assumed someone had Nellis Airforce Base. Would it be okay if the Expeditionary Force was only situated there, instead of the Pump Station, if nobody occupies it? If not, its fine.

Unless the OP says otherwise, the npc group "boomers" lives there.

This whole thing about vertibirds being able to shock and awe them is complete shite.

One fat man was able to take down the Prydwen in fallout 4. Or whatever that mini nuke launcher was.

The boomers have multiple. Amongst other things I already explained.
I don't think anyone is going to take away the boomer's home any time soon.

[Ameige]

Could I have a mobile base similar in principal to the Adams Air Force Base crawler or the Prydwen? Although it would be situated on the ground.

or a rip-off of the fallout 2 oil tanker. In the water. Just a thought.

[Liecthenbourg]

I'm just curious. Whom has howitzers in this RP?

Also: I assumed someone had Nellis Airforce Base. Would it be okay if the Expeditionary Force was only situated there, instead of the Pump Station, if nobody occupies it? If not, its fine.

I don't really think a handful of robots would be able to conquer a military base filled with people armed with a vast arsenal of military-grade explosives, to be honest.

That is very true.

But I did say 'If nobody occupies it' - including the Boomers, whom seem to be an NPC. So that answers my question

[Ameige]

Is there going to be a vault-tec store in this rp or should people just make one in their town?

VV - The real-life Bethesda store - VV
http://store.bethsoft.com/brands/fallout.html

has clothing, dishes, bobble heads, figurines, computer related stuff... all sorts of fun stuff to decorate your house and body with.

Vault tec has at the very least snowglobes and bobble heads. I figure they might have more stuff too and people maybe found enough over the years to open a shop.

[Plzen]

Meaning those howitzers have to be able to angle pretty high towards the sky to get that kind of distance. Vertibirds fly in the sky.
They can shoot them down.

Not really. Howitzers aren't anti-aircraft artillery, and you'd have to be pretty lucky to hit a moving vertibird with a howitzer.

To point out one notable difference, 5~15 rounds a minute is still considered pretty standard to a towed howitzer, whereas anti-aircraft artillery are generally expected to put out 100~500 rounds a minute.

The key to anti-aircraft is just spamming rounds and hoping that something hits something. Howitzers aren't very good at that.

Also, completely irrelevant, but I couldn't resist linking this.

[Lunas Legion]

The Enclave have Vertibirds. Guess what conventional artillery's main weakness is?

Being subject to air attack.

Conventional artillery, which is what the Boomers have, is basically useless against aircraft. They don't have any AA guns or SAM launchers and their stock of missile launchers and missiles is limited, considering they couldn't clear out a Fire Ant nest.

The Enclave would just shock and awe their way into Nellis in a lightning assault, and once they're on the ground in Nellis the Boomers are toast.

What they have is a giant howitzer. Do you know what a howitzer is? A giant gun that is meant to blow things up.
Usually things flying in the air. This thing can reduce a house to a pile of sticks as seen by the destroyed town in front of their base.

What do you think it can do to a vertibird?

And yes their rocket launchers are few and far in between. Point is they have them. And as seen in fallout 4, they can take out really big things. Like for instance a helicarrier type thing the brotherhood of steel has, which is much bigger than a vertibird.

And even if a vertibird or two did manage to land, it would be a simple act of shooting the thing with rockets as it is making its landing, or right as the people are getting out. Lots of time between landing and people getting out, that a vertibird is defenseless against missile attacks.

No, they don't have a giant howitzer. They have many small howitzers. Like the Legion's howitzer at Fortification Hill. And howitzers most definitely aren't meant to shoot down things that fly. They're artillery, not AA. They have neither the rate of fire or the tracking speed to reliably take down a flying vehicle.

Doesn't matter what it can do if it can't hit it.

They have them. And yes, they can take down Vertibirds. But these are unguided launchers, and they don't have very many or large stocks of ammo for them.

And there isn't much time between landing and disembarking, if you look at the Enclave in 3.

Point is, Boomers are dead. If NCR and Brotherhood couldn't withstand the Enclave, the Boomers most certianly can't.

[Ameige]

Meaning those howitzers have to be able to angle pretty high towards the sky to get that kind of distance. Vertibirds fly in the sky.
They can shoot them down.

Not really. Howitzers aren't anti-aircraft artillery, and you'd have to be pretty lucky to hit a moving vertibird with a howitzer.

To point out one notable difference, 5~15 rounds a minute is still considered pretty standard to a towed howitzer, whereas anti-aircraft artillery are generally expected to put out 100~500 rounds a minute.

The key to anti-aircraft is just spamming rounds and hoping that something hits something. Howitzers aren't very good at that.

Also, completely irrelevant, but I couldn't resist linking this.

Prehaps so, but anti air guns like those AA guns probably shoot small bullets that can be shot repeatedly I would imagine. I am not exactly sure the size of a howitzer shell but I would imagine it would be near the size of a mini nuke. Kinda hard to dodge that unless you are fast.

According to every cutscene I have seen with a vertibird, they are not built for speed. They are slightly faster than the Prydwen but not by much. Besides, its common knowledge to not try to hit at where your opponent is, but where they are going to be, meaning hit towards the empty space right in front of them cause by the time whatever it is, gets there, there is a good chance the enemy will have managed to get there just in time to be hit.

[Lunas Legion]

Not really. Howitzers aren't anti-aircraft artillery, and you'd have to be pretty lucky to hit a moving vertibird with a howitzer.

To point out one notable difference, 5~15 rounds a minute is still considered pretty standard to a towed howitzer, whereas anti-aircraft artillery are generally expected to put out 100~500 rounds a minute.

The key to anti-aircraft is just spamming rounds and hoping that something hits something. Howitzers aren't very good at that.

Also, completely irrelevant, but I couldn't resist linking this.

Prehaps so, but anti air guns like those AA guns probably shoot small bullets that can be shot repeatedly I would imagine. I am not exactly sure the size of a howitzer shell but I would imagine it would be near the size of a mini nuke. Kinda hard to dodge that unless you are fast.

According to every cutscene I have seen with a vertibird, they are not built for speed. They are slightly faster than the Prydwen but not by much. Besides, its common knowledge to not try to hit at where your opponent is, but where they are going to be, meaning hit towards the empty space right in front of them cause by the time whatever it is, gets there, there is a good chance the enemy will have managed to get there just in time to be hit.

Vertibirds are fast enough so that a howitzer, which isn't designed to rotate very fast (another feature of AA guns) can't have a hope in hell of tracking them properly, and even if it could it doesn't have the sighting gear or the mechanical computers required for leading an aircraft properly.