Fallout: Pyrrhic Victory Reboot (OOC)

[Ameige]

actually, I kind of just realized I keep trying to one up people and that's a bit rude. I was not meaning to at all, haha.

Its just that the legion indeed is probably objectively the weakest, save for numbers. I really could use a bit of extra to even the playing field like the stuff from that mod so I stand a fighting chance against the unity and enclave.

and the legion isn't against all technology like I said earlier, just things they find decadent. they'd definitely use power armor they found, and other military inventions, as its actually useful to them.

Power armor isn't decadent? It was made by the old world government to make their soldiers into walking tanks basically.

You don't get much more decadent than that.

Im not sure what you think the legion considers decadent but remember, when you first enter the fortification hill compound, the guy stops you and asks you to hand over all your medical supplies. He only lets you keep them if you tell him you have a medical condition that requires them. And in the whole fortification compound, the only legion based thing that is any form of technology is an auto-doc cause ceaser needs it to survive and some guns. Nothing else technological is there. Even their sword sharpener is a wheel of rock.

[New Aksarben]

actually, I kind of just realized I keep trying to one up people and that's a bit rude. I was not meaning to at all, haha.

Its just that the legion indeed is probably objectively the weakest, save for numbers. I really could use a bit of extra to even the playing field like the stuff from that mod so I stand a fighting chance against the unity and enclave.

and the legion isn't against all technology like I said earlier, just things they find decadent. they'd definitely use power armor they found, and other military inventions, as its actually useful to them.

Power armor isn't decadent? It was made by the old world government to make their soldiers into walking tanks basically.

You don't get much more decadent than that.

I'd imagine he'd excuse it for as long as its useful, trashing them once they're strong enough ot not need them, in that case. But even then, decadent in my mind tends to think of things that make life super easy and populace lazy. Power armor is only something that can be use militarily.

And yes, OP rules above what I'd prefer, I'd bow to what he says.

[Plzen]

one of the other players linked a mod that had actually threatening and strong legion stuff, like shock troops, troops with bits of power armor welded together into proper body armor, and mini gun users. stuff like that. I'm actually going to go with that because not only is it more badass, but gives me a chance against the other factions, who have more proper military.

Body armour for the Legion... is a problem, yes. That would definitely count as shock troops. I think logic of attrition still applies, though, unless you can produce enough armour to make massed infantry charges a viable proposition, especially since pieced-together armour will not be the most effective. Not to mention that surprise attacks may be very difficult to manage when there are factions, myself included, whose key strength is its information network.

Was I you, I would seriously look into getting some artillery up. Massed field artillery + body armour shock troops could be a very effective combination in winning the military stalemate that pure infantry v. infantry battles tend to become. Most of the minor factions can't maintain artillery for the simple reason that they haven't enough infantry to cover it in battle, but with 5,000 soldiers at your disposal, effective artillery bombardments would be a very viable proposition. Not to mention that artillery doesn't require as sophisticated a tech base as power armour (or even an armoured car) does.

But do remember, I have an army of 5K at my disposal, as the legion marches in its entirety. My entire population is military and trained as such as the legion doens't have an economy like the Enclave or other settled factions do. I actually do have numbers to throw at them, should I decide to.

How do you intend to keep supplied, though, if you don't have an economic base? I seriously doubt that you can feed, arm, and supply an army of 5,000 out in the desert on raiding alone. You'll need serious and planned logistics from the core of Legion power in the Midwest to the Mojave to make sure that you don't run out of food, water, and ammunition. The very first thing that the RL Roman Empire did when it conquered new land was build roads on it. I don't think that you'll be doing that different.

The camps would be easy to defend. Just add turret towers around the edges where the legion can actually traverse, and sling electric fences with the strength to take down a large animal, in between them. And maybe back it by a thick concrete wall or something.

Electricity is hard to come by, unless the Enclave (with their control of Hoover Dam) likes you. Concrete is also extremely difficult to produce unless you have a large and sophisticated industrial base from which to build.

Well if the OP reads this and says ok, I guess I cant argue it. But remember, the guy who made the legion was an ex ncr and was anti-technology from the moment he set up the legion. Long before the NCR ever made it into the Mojave to battle them.

So to have the fact that this rp is alternate - history to matter, you would have to add all of that into account.

Russia 1917. When a nation suffers several disastrous military defeats, whoever promises to shrink the casualty rate tends to become powerful and influential. The Legion probably will arm themselves the best they can, which still might not be much considering their limited technological and industrial base.

Power armor isn't decadent? It was made by the old world government to make their soldiers into walking tanks basically.

You don't get much more decadent than that.

I don't think power armour was ever mentioned by New Aksarben. Just pieces of it pieced together into improvised armour.

[Versail]

Power armor isn't decadent? It was made by the old world government to make their soldiers into walking tanks basically.

You don't get much more decadent than that.

I'd imagine he'd excuse it for as long as its useful, trashing them once they're strong enough ot not need them, in that case. But even then, decadent in my mind tends to think of things that make life super easy and populace lazy. Power armor is only something that can be use militarily.

And yes, OP rules above what I'd prefer, I'd bow to what he says.

Or for construction works.

[Ameige]

Power armor isn't decadent? It was made by the old world government to make their soldiers into walking tanks basically.

You don't get much more decadent than that.

I'd imagine he'd excuse it for as long as its useful, trashing them once they're strong enough ot not need them, in that case. But even then, decadent in my mind tends to think of things that make life super easy and populace lazy. Power armor is only something that can be use militarily.

And yes, OP rules above what I'd prefer, I'd bow to what he says.

I don't mean to nitpick but I am pretty sure according to the game, everyone is either a slave, military, or military in training.

If he wants to use the power armor militarily, he would need a lot of power armor. And even then it couldn't bash through enclave shield fences. And I don't know the full function of power armor but seeing as it needs a power source to function, I am guessing at least part of it is electrical, so trying to get past an electric fence (assuming enclave shield fences are not acceptable) would probably fry their systems.

[New Aksarben]

one of the other players linked a mod that had actually threatening and strong legion stuff, like shock troops, troops with bits of power armor welded together into proper body armor, and mini gun users. stuff like that. I'm actually going to go with that because not only is it more badass, but gives me a chance against the other factions, who have more proper military.

Body armour for the Legion... is a problem, yes. That would definitely count as shock troops. I think logic of attrition still applies, though, unless you can produce enough armour to make massed infantry charges a viable proposition, especially since pieced-together armour will not be the most effective. Not to mention that surprise attacks may be very difficult to manage when there are factions, myself included, whose key strength is its information network.

Was I you, I would seriously look into getting some artillery up. Massed field artillery + body armour shock troops could be a very effective combination in winning the military stalemate that pure infantry v. infantry battles tend to become. Most of the minor factions can't maintain artillery for the simple reason that they haven't enough infantry to cover it in battle, but with 5,000 soldiers at your disposal, effective artillery bombardments would be a very viable proposition. Not to mention that artillery doesn't require as sophisticated a tech base as power armour (or even an armoured car) does.

But do remember, I have an army of 5K at my disposal, as the legion marches in its entirety. My entire population is military and trained as such as the legion doens't have an economy like the Enclave or other settled factions do. I actually do have numbers to throw at them, should I decide to.

How do you intend to keep supplied, though, if you don't have an economic base? I seriously doubt that you can feed, arm, and supply an army of 5,000 out in the desert on raiding alone. You'll need serious and planned logistics from the core of Legion power in the Midwest to the Mojave to make sure that you don't run out of food, water, and ammunition. The very first thing that the RL Roman Empire did when it conquered new land was build roads on it. I don't think that you'll be doing that different.

The camps would be easy to defend. Just add turret towers around the edges where the legion can actually traverse, and sling electric fences with the strength to take down a large animal, in between them. And maybe back it by a thick concrete wall or something.

Electricity is hard to come by, unless the Enclave (with their control of Hoover Dam) likes you. Concrete is also extremely difficult to produce unless you have a large and sophisticated industrial base from which to build.

Well if the OP reads this and says ok, I guess I cant argue it. But remember, the guy who made the legion was an ex ncr and was anti-technology from the moment he set up the legion. Long before the NCR ever made it into the Mojave to battle them.

So to have the fact that this rp is alternate - history to matter, you would have to add all of that into account.

Russia 1917. When a nation suffers several disastrous military defeats, whoever promises to shrink the casualty rate tends to become powerful and influential. The Legion probably will arm themselves the best they can, which still might not be much considering their limited technological and industrial base.

Power armor isn't decadent? It was made by the old world government to make their soldiers into walking tanks basically.

You don't get much more decadent than that.

I don't think power armour was ever mentioned by New Aksarben. Just pieces of it pieced together into improvised armour.

Those are good points actually. I actually did address the supplies issue some, with the fort Caesar made as his base being fortified, the paths too it properly defended and maintained, and farms being planted to get more food. The radio equpiment in searchlight mean the legion can go back to get supplies, and yeah, I'll start dedicating manpower to building proper infrastructure to the tribals left in my wake. That's the best idea.

With artillery I very much agree. using that to keep them pinned down while the shock troops move in to overwhelm them in close range. Good thing about the legion is they don't use things that use much ammunition, aside form rifles of various kinds. that and scavenging the areas in and outside of the map(conwidering nothing is keeping us directly within the region except the politics, the major factions can draw upon resources outside of their territory) to build walls out of things like cars(removing unstable fusion cores and such and disposing of them(aka throwing it in lake mead) and trains and such, and pieces of armor and such that have to be scattered around. Plus with searchlight there's actually a gold mine near there, giving me a base to purchase supplies and trade with, minting Denarius from actually valuable material whcih would make it so valuable in this sort of situation, it'd be rediculous.

don't underestimate the power of slave labor, or dedicated labor. the roman roads to the frontier were built by soldiers, after all.

Also, why is it that literally every minor faction gets howizters. in the game the only thing like that was the bomber you help recover, and even then it did only a few runs before running out of fuel. Where do you get the ammunition for artillery like that in a place that was meant to be a gambling/pleasure city, not a military base in any way. in fact, like I have the only real military base in the region, aside from the one way in the north(which is unclaimed so I assume the boomers still inhabit, I think)


And like Plzen said, I said nothing about full power armor, just guys wearing armor made from those pieces and welded into proper armor rather than that, with enough strength(from the intense training the legion does) to lug that sort of weight around and still be proper warriors. not full suits, like helmets, chestpieces, leg pieces, to put together a stronger sort of armor to face the enclave's proper power armor.

But even the enclave has limited resources of that and vertibirds, with each that's destroyed or captured, they weaken. Their power comes from that rapidity and old world resources. As soon as their vertibirds run out of fuel(likely fusion cores) they're useless. there's a limited amount of fusion cores in the wastes, and soon even the enclave would need to scavenge.

[Ameige]

The camps would be easy to defend. Just add turret towers around the edges where the legion can actually traverse, and sling electric fences with the strength to take down a large animal, in between them. And maybe back it by a thick concrete wall or something.

Electricity is hard to come by, unless the Enclave (with their control of Hoover Dam) likes you. Concrete is also extremely difficult to produce unless you have a large and sophisticated industrial base from which to build.

Well if the OP reads this and says ok, I guess I cant argue it. But remember, the guy who made the legion was an ex ncr and was anti-technology from the moment he set up the legion. Long before the NCR ever made it into the Mojave to battle them.

So to have the fact that this rp is alternate - history to matter, you would have to add all of that into account.

Russia 1917. When a nation suffers several disastrous military defeats, whoever promises to shrink the casualty rate tends to become powerful and influential. The Legion probably will arm themselves the best they can, which still might not be much considering their limited technological and industrial base.

Power armor isn't decadent? It was made by the old world government to make their soldiers into walking tanks basically.

You don't get much more decadent than that.

I don't think power armour was ever mentioned by New Aksarben. Just pieces of it pieced together into improvised armour.

For electricity, remember two things. One, camp forlorn hope in the game is powered by a working generator they dug up from the abandoned vault below them. So assuming that vault is still abandoned in this timeline, that would work. Plus it is built around a spring which runs down the cliff into a waterfall. A mini water generator isn't that hard to build. I have seen youtube videos of them. They could easily build one with their technology and send the power to keep shield walls or electrical fences running.
And camp delta, which I assume is the ruins of an old house or something, has a generator in the basement, which can easily be assumed, was there since before the war given how crappy and beaten up it looks. So there is that. And it could be fusion core powered for all we know.
We don't know what the basement generator runs on.

Concrete is quite easy to come by. There is a quarry and a cement or concrete making plant in the game. Just a matter of finding some one who sells it or going to the plant when people aren't around and stealing some when no one is looking.

Who is going to guard a plant where they just made liquid rock basically? No one, that's who.

As for the power armor thing, I must have mis-read that then. Yeah, I could see caesar slapping on power armor metal bits to beef up the armor or melt it and reshape it into the shape of his legion's armor.

[Ameige]

Does the enclave still control California after they sacked it? Cause if they do, they could probably make new fusion cores from the many factories there and bring them over to the Mojave.

[Plzen]

Also, why is it that literally every minor faction gets howizters. in the game the only thing like that was the bomber you help recover, and even then it did only a few runs before running out of fuel. Where do you get the ammunition for artillery like that in a place that was meant to be a gambling/pleasure city, not a military base in any way. in fact, like I have the only real military base in the region, aside from the one way in the north(which is unclaimed so I assume the boomers still inhabit, I think)

I have two AA guns, though. Calling them "howitzers" will be a big, big stretch.

A gambling/pleasure city will certainly have the economic power to support a decent army should they choose to dedicate funds to it.

And like Plzen said, I said nothing about full power armor, just guys wearing armor made from those pieces and welded into proper armor rather than that, with enough strength(from the intense training the legion does) to lug that sort of weight around and still be proper warriors. not full suits, like helmets, chestpieces, leg pieces, to put together a stronger sort of armor to face the enclave's proper power armor.

Your Legions remind me so much of the Caroleans and their tactic. Run a hundred meters until you can see the whites in your enemy's eyes, unload one volley of rifle fire, walk a few more paces until they are literally in front of you, unload a second volley, and run into the enemy with bayonets and pikes extended.

Worked brilliantly in the days before breechloading rifles. Now it would be suicidal. But the mindset, discipline, and training required to successfully do a Carolean charge (when the enemy is shooting at you, needless to mention) is the kind of mindset, discipline, and training that the your Legions have.

But even the enclave has limited resources of that and vertibirds, with each that's destroyed or captured, they weaken. Their power comes from that rapidity and old world resources. As soon as their vertibirds run out of fuel(likely fusion cores) they're useless. there's a limited amount of fusion cores in the wastes, and soon even the enclave would need to scavenge.

The Enclave doesn't have an advanced industrial base? Well... that's very interesting.

[Ameige]

Soo what is a class D citizen? Anyone who wasn't born in a vault or on the oil rig? Or is it more complicated than that?

[New Aksarben]

Does the enclave still control California after they sacked it? Cause if they do, they could probably make new fusion cores from the many factories there and bring them over to the Mojave.

possibly, but I sincerely doubt any of them would know how to. like seriously, imagine what would be needed to make such a thing. knowledge of the intricacies of fusion, miniturization, stuff like that.

Bullets are one thing, they're simple to make, just need the proper equipment and materials.


@Plzen: I was more meaning like the ASA, they actually have a howizter, and I think a few others requested something similar. But yes, its possible for that, not for a fronteir settlement like bittersprings would be.

The yvery much are, that dedicated to 'king', country, and religion. THey just need to realize they need actual modern tactics to fight this war and they'd be golden, the dedication and ferocity of caroleans mixed with modern tactics. to be fair in fallout that sort of charge seems to happen often. people just don't take cover.

I don't think so, as far as I can tell they're trying to but don't have obviously the infrastructure or knowledge needed to create like fusion cores, which would be almost the pinnacle of human technology pre-war.

Someone listed that out somehwere, can't remember.

[Ameige]

Does the enclave still control California after they sacked it? Cause if they do, they could probably make new fusion cores from the many factories there and bring them over to the Mojave.

possibly, but I sincerely doubt any of them would know how to. like seriously, imagine what would be needed to make such a thing. knowledge of the intricacies of fusion, miniturization, stuff like that.

Bullets are one thing, they're simple to make, just need the proper equipment and materials.


@Plzen: I was more meaning like the ASA, they actually have a howizter, and I think a few others requested something similar. But yes, its possible for that, not for a fronteir settlement like bittersprings would be.

The yvery much are, that dedicated to 'king', country, and religion. THey just need to realize they need actual modern tactics to fight this war and they'd be golden, the dedication and ferocity of caroleans mixed with modern tactics. to be fair in fallout that sort of charge seems to happen often. people just don't take cover.

I don't think so, as far as I can tell they're trying to but don't have obviously the infrastructure or knowledge needed to create like fusion cores, which would be almost the pinnacle of human technology pre-war.

Someone listed that out somehwere, can't remember.

Unless something went wrong that I didn't read in the prolog, the enclave should still have poseidonet and thus all their pre-war knowledge still intact.

Plus given that they were smart enough to rush to the oil rig when the bombs fell, I am relatively certain they were smart enough to bring books with them. Maybe books that tell how to make fancy new stuff.

[Plzen]

to be fair in fallout that sort of charge seems to happen often. people just don't take cover.

I will sincerely hope that the tactics of the Legion are never reformed or improved. Between the Enclave and Unity, we've enough to worry about.

[New Aksarben]

to be fair in fallout that sort of charge seems to happen often. people just don't take cover.

I will sincerely hope that the tactics of the Legion are never reformed or improved. Between the Enclave and Unity, we've enough to worry about.

True. though unity follows similar tactics, charge until the enemy is dead, with the intelligent ones doing smarter meneuvers.

but imagine that, a slightly modernized legion with modern mixed with roman/carolean tactics.



They didn't rush the oil rig, ameige. it was a plan years in advance in the case of global catastrophe like that. Vault tech helped

Plus, even that srot of knowledge might have been lost a bit, or not thought important at the time. and the likelyhood there's an operational(or close enough) factory for those in their territory is unlikely.

you also have to remember, computers in the fallout world are horrible. could probably barely store a CD's worth of data on one computer, let alone the TB of modern ones. They'd preserve what they could but definitely couldn't store the whole of human knowledge in an oil rig.

[Ameige]

Many pre-war books have survived the 200 years, as evident by mr.house's vast collection and many found in fallout 3.

And that is just books left out in the open. Books protected on the oil rig and possibly brought with the enclave when they had to flee the oil rig, would probably have even a better chance of surviving. So even if poseidonet went down, which I cant imagine why it ever would, they would still have the physical copies of how to build things.

After all, their whole point was to restart society. I cant imagine how they would have been able to plan that without pre-war knowledge.

Plus Poseidonet, if I remember my lore correctly, is all that stuff on a supercomputer in Cheyanne mountain, and wirelessly accessible by government brass as shown by eden seeming to have knowledge of it despite being in D.C.

Which further proves my point. They built a computer that was meant to be a president in case of nuclear fallout.
I am pretty sure they could have built computers meant to handle at least all the important parts of human knowledge.

[New Aksarben]

Many pre-war books have survived the 200 years, as evident by mr.house's vast collection and many found in fallout 3.

And that is just books left out in the open. Books protected on the oil rig and possibly brought with the enclave when they had to flee the oil rig, would probably have even a better chance of surviving. So even if poseidonet went down, which I cant imagine why it ever would, they would still have the physical copies of how to build things.

After all, their whole point was to restart society. I cant imagine how they would have been able to plan that without pre-war knowledge.

Plus Poseidonet, if I remember my lore correctly, is all that stuff on a supercomputer in Cheyanne mountain, and wirelessly accessible by government brass as shown by eden seeming to have knowledge of it despite being in D.C.

Which further proves my point. They built a computer that was meant to be a president in case of nuclear fallout.
I am pretty sure they could have built computers meant to handle at least all the important parts of human knowledge.

true, actually. I'll concede that point.

the problem being nuclear experts wouldn't be high on their list, and manufacturing something is different than theoretically knowing why something works

[Ameige]

I will sincerely hope that the tactics of the Legion are never reformed or improved. Between the Enclave and Unity, we've enough to worry about.

True. though unity follows similar tactics, charge until the enemy is dead, with the intelligent ones doing smarter meneuvers.

but imagine that, a slightly modernized legion with modern mixed with roman/carolean tactics.



They didn't rush the oil rig, ameige. it was a plan years in advance in the case of global catastrophe like that. Vault tech helped

Plus, even that srot of knowledge might have been lost a bit, or not thought important at the time. and the likelyhood there's an operational(or close enough) factory for those in their territory is unlikely.

you also have to remember, computers in the fallout world are horrible. could probably barely store a CD's worth of data on one computer, let alone the TB of modern ones. They'd preserve what they could but definitely couldn't store the whole of human knowledge in an oil rig.

The enclave have power armor. Fusion cores and knowing how to build them would have been important. The modern day enclave power armor wasn't constructed until after they were on the oil rig. Or after they fled it. Not sure which. But after the bombs dropped.

Im not sure what modern enclave power armor is powered by, but when they got on the oil rig, the only power armor they would have would have been the fusion core powered ones cause that's all that was there when the bombs dropped.
Unless they had nuclear powered ones, which sounds dangerous so I doubt it.

[New Aksarben]

True. though unity follows similar tactics, charge until the enemy is dead, with the intelligent ones doing smarter meneuvers.

but imagine that, a slightly modernized legion with modern mixed with roman/carolean tactics.



They didn't rush the oil rig, ameige. it was a plan years in advance in the case of global catastrophe like that. Vault tech helped

Plus, even that srot of knowledge might have been lost a bit, or not thought important at the time. and the likelyhood there's an operational(or close enough) factory for those in their territory is unlikely.

you also have to remember, computers in the fallout world are horrible. could probably barely store a CD's worth of data on one computer, let alone the TB of modern ones. They'd preserve what they could but definitely couldn't store the whole of human knowledge in an oil rig.

The enclave have power armor. Fusion cores and knowing how to build them would have been important. The modern day enclave power armor wasn't constructed until after they were on the oil rig. Or after they fled it. Not sure which. But after the bombs dropped.

Im not sure what modern enclave power armor is powered by, but when they got on the oil rig, the only power armor they would have would have been the fusion core powered ones cause that's all that was there when the bombs dropped.
Unless they had nuclear powered ones, which sounds dangerous so I doubt it.

true. But as I said, would there be a working or workable factory in California? Who knows where the places they produced fusion cores were?

and fusion is radiation, silly

[The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism]

On the subject of shock troops etc, I would make a point here that the Legion isn't without them in the base game either. Centurions have armor which includes sections from power armor as well as combat armor I think.

Also, the Territory would love to have some artillery but I just don't see the feasibility of us having it. Perhaps we ought to get the REPCONN rockets working, I believe that would make me the only faction with ballistic missiles.

[New Aksarben]

On the subject of shock troops etc, I would make a point here that the Legion isn't without them in the base game either. Centurions have armor which includes sections from power armor as well as combat armor I think.

Also, the Territory would love to have some artillery but I just don't see the feasibility of us having it. Perhaps we ought to get the REPCONN rockets working, I believe that would make me the only faction with ballistic missiles.

Yep, but the legion might start better equipping their troops in general, and reform tactics in the face of a nontribal enemy, once they fully realize the same old tactics wont work, say, against power armor clad enclave squads.

Ballistic missiles would be a silly thing, lets forget them x3

the legion could definitely support artillery, there must be plenty of military based back in their territory they could have tribals and garrison troops back in reserve get their hands on and send to the front, so the longer the legion stays the better equipped it might become out of necessity. They haven't faced standing armies like the enclave before after all.

[The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism]

I wonder, in this RP, whether there will be any notable manufacturing industry. I know OP wanted things to be a bit more realistic, so potentially some of the larger factions would be capable of making useful weapons/armor.

Also if I were to weaponize the rockets, I was thinking about what to put in them to give them more of a kick (unlikely that I have many surplus explosives) and it hit me, why not use the goo from the mini-rockets! We'll make dirty bombs!

Third note, the territory is probably going to be fairly isolationist initially, so people who want to get in contact with us will need to make the first move.

[Plzen]

On the subject of shock troops etc, I would make a point here that the Legion isn't without them in the base game either. Centurions have armor which includes sections from power armor as well as combat armor I think.

Also, the Territory would love to have some artillery but I just don't see the feasibility of us having it. Perhaps we ought to get the REPCONN rockets working, I believe that would make me the only faction with ballistic missiles.

Manufacture and supply won't be the problem. Any industrially advanced faction in the Mojave, my Settlement included, would be able to have some artillery, albeit at considerable expense.

The problem is, what the point of having artillery pieces, when your entire military numbers in the two digits and it's pathetically easy for any enemy cavalry/motorised units to go around and capture those pieces?

None at all.

the legion could definitely support artillery, there must be plenty of military based back in their territory they could have tribals and garrison troops back in reserve get their hands on and send to the front, so the longer the legion stays the better equipped it might become out of necessity. They haven't faced standing armies like the enclave before after all.

You know, we have the kind of industrial capacity needed to manufacture and supply artillery pieces that are considerably more advanced than anything the Midwestern tribes and their primitive metallurgic industry can put together.

Just give us some generous payments and a few months to design and test the things.

Yep, but the legion might start better equipping their troops in general, and reform tactics in the face of a nontribal enemy, once they fully realize the same old tactics wont work, say, against power armor clad enclave squads.

But they don't know that... yet. It would probably take a couple disastrous failures for the leadership of the Legion to understand that they can't do massed infantry charges well-armed opponents. At which point the general responsible for the disaster gets executed by order of Caesar and the Legion starts rapidly modernising with the help of its more experienced minor faction allies. It would be a very, very interesting IC story arc.

I wonder, in this RP, whether there will be any notable manufacturing industry. I know OP wanted things to be a bit more realistic, so potentially some of the larger factions would be capable of making useful weapons/armor.

I'm using 1880 Belgium as the model for my economy. So we have stuff like mass production and homemade breechloading rifles, but not stuff like personal armour and electricity.

[Ameige]

Many pre-war books have survived the 200 years, as evident by mr.house's vast collection and many found in fallout 3.

And that is just books left out in the open. Books protected on the oil rig and possibly brought with the enclave when they had to flee the oil rig, would probably have even a better chance of surviving. So even if poseidonet went down, which I cant imagine why it ever would, they would still have the physical copies of how to build things.

After all, their whole point was to restart society. I cant imagine how they would have been able to plan that without pre-war knowledge.

Plus Poseidonet, if I remember my lore correctly, is all that stuff on a supercomputer in Cheyanne mountain, and wirelessly accessible by government brass as shown by eden seeming to have knowledge of it despite being in D.C.

Which further proves my point. They built a computer that was meant to be a president in case of nuclear fallout.
I am pretty sure they could have built computers meant to handle at least all the important parts of human knowledge.

true, actually. I'll concede that point.

the problem being nuclear experts wouldn't be high on their list, and manufacturing something is different than theoretically knowing why something works

It took me forever to find it cause the website kept freezing but the wikia states the oil rig was nuclear powered and the chosen one blew it up by disabling the coolants and creating a thermonuclear explosion.

So yes, nuclear experts probably would have been high on their list cause they didn't want... well that to happen in the first place.

[New Aksarben]

true, actually. I'll concede that point.

the problem being nuclear experts wouldn't be high on their list, and manufacturing something is different than theoretically knowing why something works

It took me forever to find it cause the website kept freezing but the wikia states the oil rig was nuclear powered and the chosen one blew it up by disabling the coolants and creating a thermonuclear explosion.

So yes, nuclear experts probably would have been high on their list cause they didn't want... well that to happen in the first place.

I may not have played Fallout 2 very far, so yeah that sounds right

And yes, that's probably the arc it might go down the legion modernizing and realizing it can't keep to Rome to the letter in this new world. Caesar's hold might get shaken by admiting a bit of failure that way, but would redouble internal propaganda to fix this. Good thing about autocracy being, whatever the leader wants to happen, does happen.

and with Decius going on what might end up being a suicide charge into super mutant territory, assuming with a blitzkreig sort of attack they can devestate the enemy enough they can't fight back. Who knows what might happen. I might actually need to make another character, should decius fail utterly

[Ameige]

The enclave have power armor. Fusion cores and knowing how to build them would have been important. The modern day enclave power armor wasn't constructed until after they were on the oil rig. Or after they fled it. Not sure which. But after the bombs dropped.

Im not sure what modern enclave power armor is powered by, but when they got on the oil rig, the only power armor they would have would have been the fusion core powered ones cause that's all that was there when the bombs dropped.
Unless they had nuclear powered ones, which sounds dangerous so I doubt it.

true. But as I said, would there be a working or workable factory in California? Who knows where the places they produced fusion cores were?

and fusion is radiation, silly

The NCR has working factories just fine in the various games and they are less technologically equipped than the enclave.
And in the base new vegas game, the steel mill is currently functional and run soley by insane robots.

The only issue I would see about it is like you said, where to find the materials and being able to figure out which factory would support the building of the things. But its the enclave, so I am pretty sure they could figure it out now that the NCR is gone.

They would just have to keep an eye on the master while they do it, or just stay out of his section of California. Besides, he lives in a vault.
Just send some power armored soldiers in there to weed out the super mutants in there, slap a satchel charge on the vault's power source,
which seems to be explosive in lore (see both the master's vault and ravenrock), and blow it up.