1855 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][REBOOT][Semi-closed]

[Oscalantine]

I shall have something up tomorrow regarding a plethora of things, Quendi I am however assuming I DID send something diplomatic IC and that it got ignored given we went straight to you having made landfall.

Absolutely not. You can't just say you tried diplomacy but now you want to launch a surprise attack. It is one or the other.

Wait... I thought Quendi responded to Nova's envoy. Did I misread something??

[Of the Quendi]

Absolutely not. You can't just say you tried diplomacy but now you want to launch a surprise attack. It is one or the other.

Wait... I thought Quendi responded to Nova's envoy. Did I misread something??

As I understand it the envoy is a soldier (of high rank?) not a diplomatic mission. Besides a Brazilian admiral isn't authorized to negotiate with foreign envoys on matters beyond tactics and minor strategic issues.

Seeing that my government's intervention in Panama (no attempt at annexation, or even occupation has taken place) isn't as much about picking a fight with the Aztecs as its a way to stress that there are key Brazilian interests at stake in Panama that will have to be considered in any settlement of the future of the territory skipping diplomacy would, at least for Brazil, be counterproductive as the whole point is to negotiate a satisfactory deal.

[Oscalantine]

Wait... I thought Quendi responded to Nova's envoy. Did I misread something??

As I understand it the envoy is a soldier (of high rank?) not a diplomatic mission. Besides a Brazilian admiral isn't authorized to negotiate with foreign envoys on matters beyond tactics and minor strategic issues.

Seeing that my government's intervention in Panama (no attempt at annexation, or even occupation has taken place) isn't as much about picking a fight with the Aztecs as its a way to stress that there are key Brazilian interests at stake in Panama that will have to be considered in any settlement of the future of the territory skipping diplomacy would, at least for Brazil, be counterproductive as the whole point is to negotiate a satisfactory deal.

Interesting choice of words... but I myself would be scared to create a war when the world is completely primed for it XDDD. Diplomacy is always the best option, anyways.

That said... I feel like surprise ambush after envoy is completely viable tactic. I mean... before Korean War, North Korean envoies were sent on a "peace operation" to discuss terms of reunification... when the tank brigade from thr GOP started to roll down upon unsuspecting South Koreans (it was Sunday and a lot of American soldiers left for holidays or were in Sunday mass, too.).

The point being that it is a valid tactic and it isnt going to be prohibited. As I have always said... this RP has free reigns unless it is a few vexing things to keep anarchy in check XDDD

[The Rimworld Remnant]

...
*silence*

[Of the Quendi]

Interesting choice of words... but I myself would be scared to create a war when the world is completely primed for it XDDD. Diplomacy is always the best option, anyways.

That said... I feel like surprise ambush after envoy is completely viable tactic. I mean... before Korean War, North Korean envoies were sent on a "peace operation" to discuss terms of reunification... when the tank brigade from thr GOP started to roll down upon unsuspecting South Koreans (it was Sunday and a lot of American soldiers left for holidays or were in Sunday mass, too.).

The point being that it is a valid tactic and it isnt going to be prohibited. As I have always said... this RP has free reigns unless it is a few vexing things to keep anarchy in check XDDD

Thats also the Brazilian position. Brazil has very few truly red lines and try to be flexible and tolerant in its diplomacy and it is certainly interested in a deal in Panama. War is way too expensive and messy to be fought over Panama.

I am not disputing that a surprise attack isn't a viable, even very useful tactic. If the Aztecs doesn't want to try to reach a diplomatic solution, and doesn't want to alert Brazil of an attack through a formal declaration of war, thats fine. Brazil will then cry "cheat" and tell everyone who wants to hear it (or doesn't) that the Aztecs are savages who violates international norms, etc. etc. etc. But its certainly something that can be done. No question about that. But then it is war of course, and not a diplomatic solution.

[Oscalantine]

...
*silence*

Sir Remnant: I already responded to your edited app. Please check it out and make changes ^^

[Conwy-Shire]

Posted finally! Also, I'm not in charge of the map-making process, I just made it because people were complaining they didn't know anything that was going on - which is a completely valid point.

[The Rimworld Remnant]

Full Nation Name : The Shia Caliphate
Majority/Official Culture : Persian
Territorial Core : (Image)
Territorial Claim :
Capital City : Tehran, Iran
Population : 2,324,923 and counting.

Government Type : Caliphate
Government Ideology/Policies : Islamist, Militarism, Nationalist, Expansionist
Government Focus : Currently the government of the Caliphate focuses on the usual economy and military, but until very recently, a focus on modernization has begun in order for the Caliphate to survive the imperialist ambitions of the western nations.
Head of State : His Holiness Caliph Ahmed El-Sayed, Caliph of the Shiites by Allah, Leader of all Persians, Shah of Persia, Shah of Afghanistan, Shah of Pakistan, Satrap of Kerman, and Satrap of Khorasan
Head of Government : Grand Shah Assad Al-Mansour of the Titular Title of the Grand Shahdom of Herat-Farah
Government Description : The government of the Shia Caliphate is split between the Caliph and Grand Shah. The Caliph has all the important power in the realm and has the final say in every single matter in the Caliphate. The Grand Shah, when the Caliph is incapable of governing due to sickness or a regency, has the power, when the Caliph heals or turns 18, the power is given to him.

Majority/State Religion : Islam(Shia)
Religious Description : You know what Islam is.

Economic Ideologies : Islamic economy, government has say but does not have total power.
Major Production : Fruits, agricultural products like veggies, ceramic products, and metals.
Economic Description : The state of the economy of the Caliphate is rising due to the recent reforms enacted by the Grand Shah and the Caliph

Army Strength : The Caliphal Army: The land force of the Caliphate, with a history that spans to the era of the first Caliphates. Although it is not that advanced like it's Western and Eastern counterparts, the Caliphal Army still enjoys strict discipline, and harsh training, just like in the times before in the era of the first Caliphs, and weaponry is becoming more advanced due to the modernization program. They recruit at least a thousand men, and the current amount of infantry in the Army is about 55,000 right now and counting and 19,000 cavalry. Their loyalty to the caliph is incomparable, as they would rather die and cause casualties on the enemy than surrender. People sometimes call this thing the "برای خدا! or For Allah!" skill. Also through this skill, they can travel from Tehran to Constantinople, Tehran to, and arrive there, with minimal casualties depending on various conditions. The Muslim Mass Infantry is quite special from the other kinds of Mass Infantry, which, amass against the enemy. These ones use a more sneaky approach, by hiding in the mountains, they can amass against the enemy, with the element of surprise. This is very effective in the mountainous regions of Persia and the world's mountains.
Men in the Army:
8,000 Muslim Footsoldiers
8,000 Muslim Archers
10,000 Muslim Dual Infantry
10,000 Shamshir Infantry
9,000 Muslim Musketmen
10,000 Muslim Mass Infantry

Cavalry in the Army:
1,000 Musellem Cavalries
1,000 Timariot Cavalries
2,000 Spahi Cavalries
2,000 Toprakli Hit and Run Cavalries
3,000 Eastern Uhlans
3,000 Eastern Skirmishers
3,000 Toprakli Dragoons
4,000 Reformed Lancer


Army Weakness : The Caliphal Army is still technologically under-powered, and there are popular but ineffective tactics.

Naval Strength : The Caliphal Naval Forces: The force of the Caliphate on the ocean. Even though the Naval Forces aren't that strong as the Army, the Caliphate is force to be reckoned with in the Persian Sea and the Gulf of Oman. The Naval Forces have some 90 ships, and 10 ships are currently being constructed. It is enjoying strict discipline and harsh training too. It is, just like the Army, modernizing. The caliphal ships, like the army, won't surrender, instead, they use the built in sharp area in front of their ships to ram enemy ships, and sinking them.


Naval Weakness : Once again, it's technological inferiority.

Further Military Description : Hashshashin - Once a Shiite holy order, the Hashshashin are the professional guards of the Caliph. The Hashshashin are also experts in the art of assassination, sabotage, blackmailing, etc etc.

National Goals : Modernization of the Caliphate, Reconquer Arabia and Jerusalem, Improve the Economy, Good Relations with Russians and Romans, Colonies.
National Issues : Economy, Technology(Modernization), Get rid of conservatism and techno-phobia, Get rid of obsolete stuff that clutters up the Caliphate, Eliminate possible enemies.
National Figures of Interest : General Mohmar and General Al-Assad
National Ambition/Aspirations : Become greater than the greatest Caliphal Dynasty, the Umayyads.

History :
•Early History - Islam was born in Mecca, then Islam split into Sunni and Shia Muslims, Sunnis try to expand, but in this timeline, they fail, and the crusades are successfully completed. Then the collapse of the Sunni Caliphate and the Neo-Persians, Shias flee to the Persian lands. But when they arrive there a Muslim oppressing Kingdom of Persia was already installed, multiple rebellions by the Shia Muslims which weren't successful. El-Sayed family is starting to lead the Shias.

• 1797–1834 During the reign of Fath Ali Shah, Qajar court ceremonials are elaborated and the Gulistan Palace in Tehran is expanded. He emphasizes the ancient Persian traditions of kingship, taking the title "kings of kings" and appropriating Sasanian royal iconography. His son, Abbas Mirza (1789–1833), is appointed crown prince and governor of Azerbaijan. Mohamed El-Sayed is born in 1801, and starts the foundations of the Caliphal Restoration Movement.

• 1800 Captain John Malcolm of the British East India Company travels to Tehran to cement ties with Fath Ali Shah, whom the British hope will ally with them against the Russians. Further diplomatic embassies arrive in 1809 and 1811. The Caliphal Restoration Movement is founded in the late days of 1804

• 1805–34 In a series of wars with Russia, Fath Ali Shah loses most of the Caucasian provinces and is forced to pay reparations, which almost bankrupt the kingdom. In 1813 and 1828, the Treaties of Gulistan and Turkmanchay end the first and second Russo-Persian Wars. In 1833, Crown Prince Abbas Mirza dies, followed by the death of Fath Ali Shah in 1834. The Caliphal Restoration Movement, seeing this as an opportunity, rebel, and in the late days of the year 1834, has successfully taken over Persia. The new ruler is Caliph Osman El-Sayed at the age of 55.

• 1835 - 45 The reign of Osman El-Sayed. In an attempt to regain terrain that had been lost, Osman seizes a few provinces in Afghanistan and Pakistan. In 1835, Mirza Saleh Shirazi publishes the first lithographic newspaper in Iran. In 1844, the daguerreotype is introduced in Iran. Osman dies in December 17, 1845 and his son, Ahmed El-Sayed, takes the position as caliph.

• 1845 - Present Under Ahmed, the Caliphate has undergone a great modernization and a economic boom that are still going. If this continues, the Caliphate may be restored to it's former glory, and Islam will be united.

Comparison Points – Political : 2
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious : 3
Comparison Points – Economy : 2
Comparison Points – Military : 3
Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX) :10 /10

There Ossie! Military is done? And Stuff Done... No blank areas...

A...

[Tracian Empire]

For Allah!" skill. Also through this skill, they can travel from Tehran to Constantinople, Tehran to, and arrive there, with minimal casualties.

What?

[The Rimworld Remnant]

For Allah!" skill. Also through this skill, they can travel from Tehran to Constantinople, Tehran to, and arrive there, with minimal casualties.

What?

HEHEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEH.....

[Tracian Empire]

For Allah!" skill. Also through this skill, they can travel from Tehran to Constantinople, Tehran to, and arrive there, with minimal casualties.

What?

HEHEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEH.....

I have no idea how such a skill would work. It would be impossible for them to simply "travel" from your capital, through the heart of the Imperium, "with minimal casualties". Since they can't teleport, they would have to fight over half of the Exercitus.

[The Rimworld Remnant]

HEHEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEH.....

I have no idea how such a skill would work. It would be impossible for them to simply "travel" from your capital, through the heart of the Imperium, "with minimal casualties". Since they can't teleport, they would have to fight over half of the Exercitus.

They would try to have as minimal casualties as possible.

[Lenyo]

I shall have something up tomorrow regarding a plethora of things, Quendi I am however assuming I DID send something diplomatic IC and that it got ignored given we went straight to you having made landfall.

Absolutely not. You can't just say you tried diplomacy but now you want to launch a surprise attack. It is one or the other.

I have to agree with Quendi. It takes a lot of effort for an international crisis to blow over peacefully. At this point, you guys either have to throw all your cards on diplomacy or war, no half measures.

[Tracian Empire]

I have no idea how such a skill would work. It would be impossible for them to simply "travel" from your capital, through the heart of the Imperium, "with minimal casualties". Since they can't teleport, they would have to fight over half of the Exercitus.

They would try to have as minimal casualties as possible.

I don't see the sense of such a "skill". This is not a video game, so the won't have a +1 in safety points or something. Fighting through the heart of the Roman Empire to Constantinople, in places they never were before, doesn't give them any advantages. I can't see the logic behind such a skill.

[The Rimworld Remnant]

They would try to have as minimal casualties as possible.

I don't see the sense of such a "skill". This is not a video game, so the won't have a +1 in safety points or something. Fighting through the heart of the Roman Empire to Constantinople, in places they never were before, doesn't give them any advantages. I can't see the logic behind such a skill.

Well, this is the old lands of the Caliphate. OR WAS IT? *illuminati music plays*

Anyhow, the edit will happen, soon.

[Tracian Empire]

I don't see the sense of such a "skill". This is not a video game, so the won't have a +1 in safety points or something. Fighting through the heart of the Roman Empire to Constantinople, in places they never were before, doesn't give them any advantages. I can't see the logic behind such a skill.

Well, this is the old lands of the Caliphate. OR WAS IT? *illuminati music plays*

Anyhow, the edit will happen, soon.

Um... no, it wasn't, the Muslim troops were pushed back by the Romans and the Neo-Akkadians before they managed to conquer anything. A few centuries ago.

[Lenyo]

Brazil will then cry "cheat" and tell everyone who wants to hear it (or doesn't) that the Aztecs are savages who violates international norms, etc. etc. etc. But its certainly something that can be done. No question about that. But then it is war of course, and not a diplomatic solution.

That can backfire. Bonaparte's superior armies said the Russians were savages, so they fought back like savages, razing Russian cities and farmland in order to starve out the French. (The Russians can out-starve anyone. Yes it's a competition.)

[The Rimworld Remnant]

Well, this is the old lands of the Caliphate. OR WAS IT? *illuminati music plays*

Anyhow, the edit will happen, soon.

Um... no, it wasn't, the Muslim troops were pushed back by the Romans and the Neo-Akkadians before they managed to conquer anything. A few centuries ago.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Oh noes! What to doooo! Anyhow....

[Tracian Empire]

Um... no, it wasn't, the Muslim troops were pushed back by the Romans and the Neo-Akkadians before they managed to conquer anything. A few centuries ago.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Oh noes! What to doooo! Anyhow....

Muslims in general are weaker in this alternative history, but I would assume that the Sunni have been much more weakened in the past than the Shia.

[The Rimworld Remnant]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Oh noes! What to doooo! Anyhow....

Muslims in general are weaker in this alternative history, but I would assume that the Sunni have been much more weakened in the past than the Shia.

Yeah, and the Shia managed to flee to Iran/Persia...

[Tracian Empire]

Muslims in general are weaker in this alternative history, but I would assume that the Sunni have been much more weakened in the past than the Shia.

Yeah, and the Shia managed to flee to Iran/Persia...

Possibly. But the Islam never reached the might it had in real life.

[Oscalantine]

-many questionable contents later...-

Err... Remnant, you sound positively drunk. Let cooler heads decide this... and in the meantime, please edit out not-so serious contents. I understand that humor is an essential part of the RP (I mean... we are here to have FUN, not discuss politics... although two seems to align for the most part XDDD), but I would like applications (and posts... don't want any jokes there except ones that are meant to be spoken between characters) to be in a bit more serious tone.

[Oscalantine]

Absolutely not. You can't just say you tried diplomacy but now you want to launch a surprise attack. It is one or the other.

I have to agree with Quendi. It takes a lot of effort for an international crisis to blow over peacefully. At this point, you guys either have to throw all your cards on diplomacy or war, no half measures.

Dunno, dude. Aztec's application states that they just do better in surprise warfares and guerrilla tactics. If they are using what they can to their best advantage, I feel like it is completely out of the spirit of this RP to restrict this from happening. It is like saying to Koreans to fight in rows and regiments when CLEARLY they will lose. We rather let our superior cannons and firepower do the talking, and our soldiers can stand there looking pretty.

Diplomacy is nice, but surprise attacks are part of diplomacy as well ("aggressive negotiation," as certain senator from galaxy far, far away once said). I think that it is plausible and shouldn't be penalized in the OOC for such an action.

Of course... no one is stopping the great French Republic from retracting support from Aztecs should this happen, as it may seem "barbaric" to them. Neither does it stop Brazil from calling them out over international stage and gather allies to give Panama to "civilized" nations. But that is a step that the world leaders will make over IC, not condemnations and judgement tossed here over OOC.

[The Rimworld Remnant]

-many questionable contents later...-

Err... Remnant, you sound positively drunk. Let cooler heads decide this... and in the meantime, please edit out not-so serious contents. I understand that humor is an essential part of the RP (I mean... we are here to have FUN, not discuss politics... although two seems to align for the most part XDDD), but I would like applications (and posts... don't want any jokes there except ones that are meant to be spoken between characters) to be in a bit more serious tone.

I probably need a "one or two pages in a novel" kind of stuff?

[Old Tyrannia]

Oscal, I'm assuming that Japan's representatives are invited to the Viceroy and Laura's wedding in Constantinople, right? I just want to check since no invitations have technically been posted in the IC thread, unless I missed them...