1850: The White Man's Burden (OOC/AH/Open)

[The Peoples East Africa]

Denied for the moment. Australia + New Zealand are being split at the upcoming conference, so you can press claims then. Same with Africa I'm afraid. Your other colonies may work. Also if you could give a rough idea of how England and France united, it'd be appreciated.

I will remove my colonies in Africa and Australia. Could I bargain my way into keeping New Zealand? The IRL brits already had knowledge of it by the turn of the century, and owned it entirely in 1850s.
Anyways, the history in this universe goes that after the Normans managed to conquer England, when Roger de Montgomerie was offered the Title of Earl of Shrewsbury by William, Henry I Capet offered him in secret to be made Duke of England and Normandy, in exchange for backstabbing William (De facto Henry's vassal, but de jure a king in his own right). With the help of the ''Earl of Shrewsbury'', the French managed to land an army in england, and at the battle of Gloucester, William was Killed, and the English Kingdom fell into anarchy. in 1074 the Kingdom of England was declared a possession of the Capet Dynasty, which were now kings of France and of England. The Rising Roger was poisoned soon after, and the Normandy duchy went to his youngest son, while the English duchy went to his eldest. Backed by the king, the eldest son declared war against his brother, and at Dorchester killed him in battle. After the battle was over, the king declared that the eldest son, Orland de Montgomerie broke the peace treaty made with William, to which all vassals (including Roger, his father) agreed to, and so he confiscated the duchy of England. Orland did not accept this treachery, and declared a new English Kingdom. After initial success, he was defeated, and so the Capet dynasty finally had full control of England. I wanted to include it into the history part.

Hmm, you can have some colonies on New Zealand, but officially it's to be decided.
I'm afraid this doesn't work with the history we have. England was still completely independent by the time of the Spanish Armada, and the Hundred Years War is still canon.

[The Peoples East Africa]

Quick Question on New Zealand; are the Maori more or less Powerful? The British don't have Australia, but it's still possible the Maori got weapons from the Hanseatic League, Korea, China, Siam, the Dutch and other European Merchants who frequent the area. What of the Musket Wars?

Hmm, I suppose that's up to whoever has the territory, but if no one does then I declare them to be more powerful.

[Caraani]

I will remove my colonies in Africa and Australia. Could I bargain my way into keeping New Zealand? The IRL brits already had knowledge of it by the turn of the century, and owned it entirely in 1850s.
Anyways, the history in this universe goes that after the Normans managed to conquer England, when Roger de Montgomerie was offered the Title of Earl of Shrewsbury by William, Henry I Capet offered him in secret to be made Duke of England and Normandy, in exchange for backstabbing William (De facto Henry's vassal, but de jure a king in his own right). With the help of the ''Earl of Shrewsbury'', the French managed to land an army in england, and at the battle of Gloucester, William was Killed, and the English Kingdom fell into anarchy. in 1074 the Kingdom of England was declared a possession of the Capet Dynasty, which were now kings of France and of England. The Rising Roger was poisoned soon after, and the Normandy duchy went to his youngest son, while the English duchy went to his eldest. Backed by the king, the eldest son declared war against his brother, and at Dorchester killed him in battle. After the battle was over, the king declared that the eldest son, Orland de Montgomerie broke the peace treaty made with William, to which all vassals (including Roger, his father) agreed to, and so he confiscated the duchy of England. Orland did not accept this treachery, and declared a new English Kingdom. After initial success, he was defeated, and so the Capet dynasty finally had full control of England. I wanted to include it into the history part.

Hmm, you can have some colonies on New Zealand, but officially it's to be decided.
I'm afraid this doesn't work with the history we have. England was still completely independent by the time of the Spanish Armada, and the Hundred Years War is still canon.

The Spanish Armada thing could have happened against my navy, and the Hundred Years War a civil war in the Union.

[The Peoples East Africa]

Hmm, you can have some colonies on New Zealand, but officially it's to be decided.
I'm afraid this doesn't work with the history we have. England was still completely independent by the time of the Spanish Armada, and the Hundred Years War is still canon.

The Spanish Armada thing could have happened against my navy, and the Hundred Years War a civil war in the Union.

We have it pretty concrete that England was independent. By my history(I'm the Celts), there's nothing of this Union, so sorry it can't work.

[Elderowa]

Quick Question on New Zealand; are the Maori more or less Powerful? The British don't have Australia, but it's still possible the Maori got weapons from the Hanseatic League, Korea, China, Siam, the Dutch and other European Merchants who frequent the area. What of the Musket Wars?

Hmm, I suppose that's up to whoever has the territory, but if no one does then I declare them to be more powerful.

Considering Australia and New Zealand are currently uncolonized, and will be colonized once this Berlin Conference actually starts, then I guess they would indeed be more Powerful.

Maybe even a Maori Kingdom has formed, albeit with an underpopulated population.

[Caraani]

The Spanish Armada thing could have happened against my navy, and the Hundred Years War a civil war in the Union.

We have it pretty concrete that England was independent. By my history(I'm the Celts), there's nothing of this Union, so sorry it can't work.

Well, there's a lovely edit button in there, and it isn't like you need to add a load of text. One phrase, two words, even less, one word, and we are done. Or is it that you want to have a weak england that you want to subdue? I love this realpolitik.

[The Peoples East Africa]

Hmm, I suppose that's up to whoever has the territory, but if no one does then I declare them to be more powerful.

Considering Australia and New Zealand are currently uncolonized, and will be colonized once this Berlin Conference actually starts, then I guess they would indeed be more Powerful.

Maybe even a Maori Kingdom has formed, albeit with an underpopulated population.

I suppose a bit of technology got slipped and the natives mastered it and not there'll be a great war to conquer the land.

Ooh, I like the sound of that.

[The Peoples East Africa]

We have it pretty concrete that England was independent. By my history(I'm the Celts), there's nothing of this Union, so sorry it can't work.

Well, there's a lovely edit button in there, and it isn't like you need to add a load of text. One phrase, two words, even less, one word, and we are done. Or is it that you want to have a weak england that you want to subdue? I love this realpolitik.

I'm not changing my app for you. I suppose I do since that's my history.

[Yurizlansia]

Full Nation Name: The Kingdom India
Short Nation Name: India
National Flag:

(Image)

Territory: The rest of India that is not claimed.
Colonies: N/A
Official Language(s): Marathi, and Sanskrit
Form of Government: Monarchy
Head of State: Nana Sahib
Head of Government: Same as above
Capital City: Satara
Population: 100 million
Ethnicities: Indian, British, and French
Culture: Indian/East, Hindu
Religion: Hindu
Army: Total men: 900,000. Infantry: 700,000, Cavalry: 180,000 Artillery: 20,000. Organised into regiments, and platoons. Not very well armed, but pretty modern for the region. Has some experience fighting rebels, not particularly remarkable.
Navy: 100 dhows, and a lot of privateers that harass European warships. All of the recorded ships are in one fleet, while the privateers are spread throughout the Indian Ocean.
Economic Strength: Fairly wealthy. They make a lot of money off of the spice trade and privateering. There are also a lot of unexploited resources throughout the subcontinent. The government makes about 6,000 dollars per year after expenses.
Infrastructure: Very poor. The undeveloped infrastructure has been a hinderance to the Indian army for years. It affects the movement of the army, and trade quite drastically. It has been the plan of Sahib to reform it to improve the Marathan’s effectiveness in war.
Scientific Research and Development: Very little scientific research has been conducted here. For the most part, they adopt the tactics of other Europeans. However, due to the very conservative values of the Hindu religion philosophical ideas have very little impact there.
Primary Goals: Secure the Indian subcontinent, and form an empire to be the envy of the Eastern world.
History: Balaji Bajirao encouraged agriculture, protected the villagers, and brought about a marked improvement in the state of the territory. Continued expansion saw Raghunath Rao, the brother of Nanasaheb, pushing into in the wake of the Afghan withdrawal after Ahmed Shah Abdali's plunder of Delhi in 1756. Delhi was captured by Maratha army under Raghunath Rao in August 1757 defeating Afghan garrison in the Battle of Delhi. This laid the foundation for the Maratha conquest of North-west India. In Lahore, as in Delhi, the Marathas were now major players. After Battle of Attock, 1758, the Marathas captured Peshawar defeating the Afghan troops in the Battle of Peshawar on 8 May 1758.[9] In 1759, The Marathas under Sadashivrao Bhau (referred to as the Bhau or Bhao in sources) responded to the news of the Afghans' return to North India by sending a big army to North. Bhau's force was bolstered by some Maratha forces under Holkar, Scindia, Gaikwad and Govind Pant Bundele. The combined army of over 100,000 regular troops had re-captured the former Mughal capital, Delhi, from an Afghan garrison in August 1760. Delhi had been reduced to ashes many times due to previous invasions, and in addition there being acute shortage of supplies in the Maratha camp. Bhau ordered the sacking of the already depopulated city. He is said to have planned to place his nephew and the Peshwa's son, Vishwasrao, on the Mughal throne. By 1760, with defeat of the Nizam in the Deccan, Maratha power had reached its zenith with a territory of over 2,800,000 km² acres. Ahmad Shah Durrani, then called Rohillas and Nawab of Oudh to assist him in driving out 'infidel' Marathas from Delhi. Huge armies of Muslim forces and Marathas collided with each other on 14 January 1761 in the Third Battle of Panipat. The Maratha army lost the battle which halted imperial expansion. The Jats and Rajputs did not support the Marathas. Their withdrawal from the ensuing battle played a crucial role in its result. Hindutva-sympathisising historians have criticised the Maratha treatment of fellow Hindu groups. Kaushik Roy says "The treatment of Marathas with their co-religionist fellows – Jats and Rajputs was definitely unfair, and ultimately they had to pay its price in Panipat where Muslim forces had united in the name of religion."[32] The Marathas had antagonised the Jats and Rajputs by taxing them heavily, punishing them after defeating the Mughals and interfering in their internal affairs. The Marathas were abandoned by Raja Suraj Mal of Bharatpur and the Rajputs who quit the Maratha alliance at Agra before the start of the great battle and withdrew their troops, as Maratha general Sadashivrao Bhau did not heed the advice to leave soldier's families (women and children) and pilgrims at Agra and not take them to the battle field with the soldiers, rejected their cooperation. Their supply chains (earlier assured by Raja Suraj Mal and Rajputs) did not exist. After the Marathan Kingdom formed, the Kingdom of India essentially split from it.
RP Example: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... 1&t=363590
1337 - Do not remove it. This is so me and other Co-Op(s) are able to find your apps easily.

Anything I need to change?

[Caraani]

Well, there's a lovely edit button in there, and it isn't like you need to add a load of text. One phrase, two words, even less, one word, and we are done. Or is it that you want to have a weak england that you want to subdue? I love this realpolitik.

I'm not changing my app for you. I suppose I do since that's my history.

So you admit that you don't accept my app because of your nation's interests?

[Elderowa]

Considering Australia and New Zealand are currently uncolonized, and will be colonized once this Berlin Conference actually starts, then I guess they would indeed be more Powerful.

Maybe even a Maori Kingdom has formed, albeit with an underpopulated population.

I suppose a bit of technology got slipped and the natives mastered it and not there'll be a great war to conquer the land.

Ooh, I like the sound of that.

Considering the Maori basically killed themselves off to the point where they had to be ruled by the English, I'm going to say that there is indeed a Maori Kingdom, with an underpopulation problem, and they are indeed powerful enough to keep Europeans at bay, and the Europeans don't know this!

Hell, the Maori may have invaded Australia for all we know.

[The Peoples East Africa]

I'm not changing my app for you. I suppose I do since that's my history.

So you admit that you don't accept my app because of your nation's interests?

I don't accept it because it's going against the history already established. First come first served with history, and you're pretty late.

[Cabana]

Full Nation Name: The Kingdom India
Short Nation Name: India
National Flag:

(Image)

Territory: The rest of India that is not claimed.
Colonies: N/A
Official Language(s): Marathi, and Sanskrit
Form of Government: Monarchy
Head of State: Nana Sahib
Head of Government: Same as above
Capital City: Satara
Population: 100 million
Ethnicities: Indian, British, and French
Culture: Indian/East, Hindu
Religion: Hindu
Army: Total men: 900,000. Infantry: 700,000, Cavalry: 180,000 Artillery: 20,000. Organised into regiments, and platoons. Not very well armed, but pretty modern for the region. Has some experience fighting rebels, not particularly remarkable.
Navy: 100 dhows, and a lot of privateers that harass European warships. All of the recorded ships are in one fleet, while the privateers are spread throughout the Indian Ocean.
Economic Strength: Fairly wealthy. They make a lot of money off of the spice trade and privateering. There are also a lot of unexploited resources throughout the subcontinent. The government makes about 6,000 dollars per year after expenses.
Infrastructure: Very poor. The undeveloped infrastructure has been a hinderance to the Indian army for years. It affects the movement of the army, and trade quite drastically. It has been the plan of Sahib to reform it to improve the Marathan’s effectiveness in war.
Scientific Research and Development: Very little scientific research has been conducted here. For the most part, they adopt the tactics of other Europeans. However, due to the very conservative values of the Hindu religion philosophical ideas have very little impact there.
Primary Goals: Secure the Indian subcontinent, and form an empire to be the envy of the Eastern world.
History: Balaji Bajirao encouraged agriculture, protected the villagers, and brought about a marked improvement in the state of the territory. Continued expansion saw Raghunath Rao, the brother of Nanasaheb, pushing into in the wake of the Afghan withdrawal after Ahmed Shah Abdali's plunder of Delhi in 1756. Delhi was captured by Maratha army under Raghunath Rao in August 1757 defeating Afghan garrison in the Battle of Delhi. This laid the foundation for the Maratha conquest of North-west India. In Lahore, as in Delhi, the Marathas were now major players. After Battle of Attock, 1758, the Marathas captured Peshawar defeating the Afghan troops in the Battle of Peshawar on 8 May 1758.[9] In 1759, The Marathas under Sadashivrao Bhau (referred to as the Bhau or Bhao in sources) responded to the news of the Afghans' return to North India by sending a big army to North. Bhau's force was bolstered by some Maratha forces under Holkar, Scindia, Gaikwad and Govind Pant Bundele. The combined army of over 100,000 regular troops had re-captured the former Mughal capital, Delhi, from an Afghan garrison in August 1760. Delhi had been reduced to ashes many times due to previous invasions, and in addition there being acute shortage of supplies in the Maratha camp. Bhau ordered the sacking of the already depopulated city. He is said to have planned to place his nephew and the Peshwa's son, Vishwasrao, on the Mughal throne. By 1760, with defeat of the Nizam in the Deccan, Maratha power had reached its zenith with a territory of over 2,800,000 km² acres. Ahmad Shah Durrani, then called Rohillas and Nawab of Oudh to assist him in driving out 'infidel' Marathas from Delhi. Huge armies of Muslim forces and Marathas collided with each other on 14 January 1761 in the Third Battle of Panipat. The Maratha army lost the battle which halted imperial expansion. The Jats and Rajputs did not support the Marathas. Their withdrawal from the ensuing battle played a crucial role in its result. Hindutva-sympathisising historians have criticised the Maratha treatment of fellow Hindu groups. Kaushik Roy says "The treatment of Marathas with their co-religionist fellows – Jats and Rajputs was definitely unfair, and ultimately they had to pay its price in Panipat where Muslim forces had united in the name of religion."[32] The Marathas had antagonised the Jats and Rajputs by taxing them heavily, punishing them after defeating the Mughals and interfering in their internal affairs. The Marathas were abandoned by Raja Suraj Mal of Bharatpur and the Rajputs who quit the Maratha alliance at Agra before the start of the great battle and withdrew their troops, as Maratha general Sadashivrao Bhau did not heed the advice to leave soldier's families (women and children) and pilgrims at Agra and not take them to the battle field with the soldiers, rejected their cooperation. Their supply chains (earlier assured by Raja Suraj Mal and Rajputs) did not exist. After the Marathan Kingdom formed, the Kingdom of India essentially split from it.
RP Example: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=363590
1337 - Do not remove it. This is so me and other Co-Op(s) are able to find your apps easily.

Anything I need to change?

You sure you still wanna be a kingdom?

[The Peoples East Africa]

I suppose a bit of technology got slipped and the natives mastered it and not there'll be a great war to conquer the land.

Ooh, I like the sound of that.

Considering the Maori basically killed themselves off to the point where they had to be ruled by the English, I'm going to say that there is indeed a Maori Kingdom, with an underpopulation problem, and they are indeed powerful enough to keep Europeans at bay, and the Europeans don't know this!

Hell, the Maori may have invaded Australia for all we know.

Of course not! You know, I think some time travel may have occurred, and those natives may have a few bombers to defend themselves.

That's very ambitious.

[Yurizlansia]

Anything I need to change?

You sure you still wanna be a kingdom?

Well, I don't really care. Will it affect anything?

[Caraani]

So you admit that you don't accept my app because of your nation's interests?

I don't accept it because it's going against the history already established. First come first served with history, and you're pretty late.

ok, thanks a lot.


P.s. they really should remove that edit button. It seems worthless to some.

[The Peoples East Africa]

I don't accept it because it's going against the history already established. First come first served with history, and you're pretty late.

ok, thanks a lot.


P.s. they really should remove that edit button. It seems worthless to some.

You're welcome

No need to get salty.

[Elderowa]

Considering the Maori basically killed themselves off to the point where they had to be ruled by the English, I'm going to say that there is indeed a Maori Kingdom, with an underpopulation problem, and they are indeed powerful enough to keep Europeans at bay, and the Europeans don't know this!

Hell, the Maori may have invaded Australia for all we know.

Of course not! You know, I think some time travel may have occurred, and those natives may have a few bombers to defend themselves.

That's very ambitious.

Maybe that is a little too ambitious.

Regardless, there will definitely be a Tribal Monarchy in New Zealand now. The question is which tribe do I think would have won?

[Caraani]

ok, thanks a lot.


P.s. they really should remove that edit button. It seems worthless to some.

You're welcome

No need to get salty.

I get salty over people who seem like they don't give a shit about others. It's natural, sorry if you got offended.

[The Peoples East Africa]

Of course not! You know, I think some time travel may have occurred, and those natives may have a few bombers to defend themselves.

That's very ambitious.

Maybe that is a little too ambitious.

Regardless, there will definitely be a Tribal Monarchy in New Zealand now. The question is which tribe do I think would have won?

Just a small bit.

Well I know none of the Maori tribes, so you may have to figure that one out.

[Cabana]

You sure you still wanna be a kingdom?

Well, I don't really care. Will it affect anything?

Well empires are always cooler, other than that no.

[The Peoples East Africa]

You're welcome

No need to get salty.

I get salty over people who seem like they don't give a shit about others. It's natural, sorry if you got offended.

I do give a shit over things. Like the history already established which won't be changed for someone who arrived 105 pages in.

You can always app for another nation, and try to keep in the right history this time ok m8

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

You're welcome

No need to get salty.

I get salty over people who seem like they don't give a shit about others. It's natural, sorry if you got offended.

The irony is lost

[Elderowa]

As I work on the Map, I have a few questions with regards to NPC nations:

1) I have a few ideas for NPC nations in Africa; specifically Mali, Zulu, Kongo, and a divided Ethiopia. Would these nations be acceptable for me to put on the map?

2) Likewise, should there be a Catholic Inca Empire in South America?

3) For lands that aren't "owned" by a nation, but by competing tribes, should I simply leave those white?

[The Peoples East Africa]

As I work on the Map, I have a few questions with regards to NPC nations:

1) I have a few ideas for NPC nations in Africa; specifically Mali, Zulu, Kongo, and a divided Ethiopia. Would these nations be acceptable for me to put on the map?

2) Likewise, should there be a Catholic Inca Empire in South America?

3) For lands that aren't "owned" by a nation, but by competing tribes, should I simply leave those white?

The conquest of the Incan Empire came before the Spanish Armada, so I'd imagine they're gone.

For that about Africa, I think I'll leave it to the OP to decide.

Sounds good.