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The imperial canadian dutchy
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11774
Founded: Dec 31, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The imperial canadian dutchy » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:28 pm

The imperial canadian dutchy wrote:
Generic Info
Nation Name: Il Impero Italiano/ The Empire of Italy
Symbols:
National Personification: Italia Turrita
Flag: Il Tricolore (Image) Well plus the Murat's coat of arms
CoA: The Arms of the House of Savoy http://i.imgur.com/tKfDiTw.png
Anthem: Il Canto degli Italiani (Unofficial Popular), Marcia Reale di Ordinanza https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5N-H00ujEg
Homeland Population: (population of everyone considered a citizen)42,055,100
Imperial Population: (include population of colonies)14,511,000
Location/Claims: http://i.imgur.com/cg05CFQ.png(Tell me if anything conflicts with Luna) Lighter Dark Green is the Italian puppet of the Kingdom of Greece
Capital City:
Roma
Government Info
Government Type:Unitary Parliamentary Constitutional Monarchy
Brief Explanation of Government:
The Kingdom of Italy is dejurely a fully democratic parliamentary state with a monarch, however de facto it is a Enlightened despotism with the Emperor having extensive powers in the country, as well as being one of the Grand Marshals of Italy. The Consul is generally a weaker political figure who often simply stamps the Emperors decrees into practice, However the consul is elected from a popular proportional vote.
Ideology: Pan-Italian Nationalism,Imperialism, Anti-Socialism, Bonapartism, Colonialism, Royalism, Irredentism, Enlightened Despotism
Leader/s:
Emperor Vittorio-Napoleone I di Savoia-Murat (Funnnnn)/ Humbert I of Savoy-Murat (Son of Achille-Napoleone di Savoia-Murat)
Emperor of the Italians, King of the Lombards, King of Sardinia,King of Jerusalem and Cyprus, King of the Greeks, Prince of the Albanians, Lord Protector of the Southern Cantons, Emir of Tripoli, and Protector of the Holy See
Consul: Vittorio-Maria Giuri (Fronte della Patria/FdP)

Population Info
Brief Description of your people:
The Italian people are loud, boisterous and proud people, formed from the stock of Ancient Romes first citizens in the Empire, from the province of Italia, the Italian people throughout centuries of division are a diverse folk with many harsh regional differences. However Italians share their new homeland which they conquered from the Stranieri together. The Italian people are also defined by their staunch Catholicism, and in regards to the rest of Europe moderate liberalism.
Religion:Vasty Roman Catholic, Muslims in IEA and Libya
Ethnicity:European
Main/Accepted Culture(s): Italians, Arabs (Somewhat depending on levels of integration, believe IRL Italy considered them Muslim Italians), Italian Jews, Eritreans
Other Cultures: Arabs(Above), Germans, Slovenes, Croats, Arpitans, Ethiopians, Somalis

Military Info
Army:
Esercito Imperiale Italiano: 58 Divisions
The Esercito Imperiale, under the Kingdom of Italy is for what it counts advanced due to the reforms in place by the Murats, introduced from the French army following Napoleon's defeat and Murat's defection to the Alliance. The army is decently well trained for being a newly formed country. It's equipment however is generally superb after the revolution of Industry organized by the Prime Minister Gianluca Tence in 1890, with the army having adequate numbers of Guns, and field artillery to remain effective. The dominant tactic of the main force of the army is to focus on defending the alps and it's valleys from foreign invasion, especially in the Autonomous Cantons of Ticino and Grigioni.
Guardie Alpini: 62 Battalions
The Alpine guard is one of the pride and joys of the Italian Military command, being one of the most effective and well armed mountaineering troops in the world at this time. They are superbly suited to the current Italian defense strategy. The Alpini are armed well for their environments with light weight guns and mortars being some of the more common armaments. Training wise as said earlier the Alpini are arguably some of the finest mountain troops in the World.
Bersaglieri: 21 Regiments
The Bersaglieri are the Italian elite light infantry noted for on parades jogging instead of marching. Training wise they are some of the most elite troops in Italy, noted for their speed of attack and decent training. The Bersaglieri are quite well armed with Italian light weaponry and light artillery.
Arditi: 27 Units 18,000 men
A project just recently started by the Italian command staff, was the creation of Storm trooper units to punch holes in the enemies defenses if the Italian army was to go on offensive into enemy lines. These soldiers are selected due to their bravery and their ability to not be bothered by the sound of close incoming shells. They are masters of hand to hand combat and train extensively in fencing, due to their elite nature the training is superb. In the way of equipment it is intentional that they are equipped lightly and primitively typically with only a dagger, rifle and hand grenades to quickly and effectively shut down resistance in trenches. Due to their reputation for bravery and brutality and use of knives, many call them "Crazies" it is commonly thought that they were recruited from insane asylums in colloquial (At least in my experience) Italian thought.
Corpo Aeronautico Militare: 42 Squadrons
The CAM is the Italian air force, being one of the pioneers of the practice, the Italian air force currently is quite decent although the homegrown air industry is still quite weak, and most planes coming from either France or Britain. None the less training in the CAM is usually focused on defending Italian cities and or conducting small raids on the enemy. The equipment was generally french Nieuports.
Carabineri: (A fucking lot)
The Carabinieri are in a sense Gendarmes, but also provide the service of being barrier troops. As far as training goes, they are still essentially police officers with slightly increased training. Equipment wise they do need much because once again, their sole purpose in war is to build machine gun posts and defend the rear from unruliness.

Navy: (branches, number of troops, quality of navy, etc,)
8 Dreadnought Battleships
20 Cruisers
35 Destroyers
The Quality of the Italian navy grows better as time passes, as Italy begins to focus on protecting it's interests in the Mediterranean, as well as enabling it to protect it's colonies from foreign aggressors. Italy's ships are generally well made, not up to par with Great Britain, but definitely not awful. It's crews are decently well trained with it's admirals preform generally averagely.

(I'm shit with navies)
Other Info
Brief Description of your Economy:
The Economy of the Empire of Italy, is a growing market with continuing industrialization providing a great deal of jobs to the new economy as well as helping to produce the goods that's the growing middle class would like to purchase. The economy is organized in a mixed way, with the Imperial state owning some of the majour industries such as the Arms and Naval production industries, but ,mostly the state relies on the Capitalist class to grow the economy. Trade is also a large portion of the Kingdom's income with Genoa,Venice and Trieste being some of the busiest ports in the Mediterranean, they have grown even larger due to imports from the colonies of new exotic materials, as well as cheap rubber and coffee.
Goals:
1.)Not die
2.) Watch Europe Burn
3.) Sneak in and steal the Adriatic
4.) Maybe if we aren't too shit, take the lands claimed in France
5.) Acquire Comrade Napoleons corpse to intern into the Pantheon in Rome (Super sekrit Muratian goal)
History:
1815: Murat decides against supporting Napoleons return from Elba, and exposes his plans to the Coalition, swaying support in favour of Murat keeping the throne in the Treaty of Vienna.
1820: Following the aftermath of the war, Murat still can see what he saw before in his prediction of Italian patriotism, in response to this, he offers a union of houses between the dominant native Italian power in the North: Sardinia Piedmont by offering his son to marry the daughter of the King in Sardinia, and the King in Sardinia's heir to marry Murat's daughter, forming the House of Savoy-Murat
1848: The Revolutions in the Italian peninsula, are funded by both of the members of the Union, in this timeline the revolutions succeeded in pushing the Austrians out of much of the Po valley as well as forcing Umbria into the hands of the Neapolitans much to the Pope's dismay. The Revolutions in the north went further than before, as the fighting spread from the Austrian controlled lands to the Swiss, as Piedmontese troops began to supply the Nationalists in Ticino and Grigioni into revolting and leaving the Swiss confederacy, joining the Union with special privileges as it held under the Swiss Confederacy, in return for the lost territory the Piedmontese would pay 3 million Lira in damages to the Swiss general council.
1849: Following this the two states, with the support of France, declare war on Austria and seize the land claimed by prominant Liberal Patriots in the Union, which included the Austrian Kingdom of Venice, and the Duchy of Trent at first, however the Italian alliance soon faired better than expected the Littoral was secured, Austria, in no position to keep fighting was forced to cede the Italian's claims to the Union.
1850: The Empire of Italy is declared in Milan, with the Archbishop crowing the new Emperor with the Iron crown and laurel leaves, symbolizing him as the heir to the Holy Roman Empire, and of the Roman Emperor's of old.
1857: The Pan-Italian railway from Aosta to Reggio di Calabria is built, by connecting the disunited states railways.
1860: The Papal States are invaded by the Empire forcing the Pope to flee inside of the Vatican and watch powerlessly as his lands are taken by the United Italy, an offer to the pope is given by the Leaders of the Emperors army which is similar to the law of guarantees which the pope quite obviously denied, following this, the Italian Empire, offered to carve the territory of the Vatican into an Independent dependency of Italy, in which the Popes would pay a meager rent to the Italian state in return being allowed to govern in independence, as well as giving the pope privileges in Italy, such as honorary Citizenship, in return, The pope would recognize the Authority of the Emperors, and recognize the gains made by the Italian state, by the treaty of Ostia Antica.
1865: Industrialist Gianluca Tence, becomes prime minister of the Italian Empire, and begins a series of reforms encouraging and subsidizing industry throughout the Empire, focusing especially on the impoverished south, Signore Gianluca also laid plans for the invasion of Libya for which he gave special subsidies to the arms industry to begin producing weapons.
1867:The Invasion of Libya begins, as the Emperor formally announces from his balcony in the Quirinal Palace a declaration of war upon the Emir of Tripoli, as to pave the way for Italian power in the Mediterranean, as well as claiming what many Italian Nationalists believed as the Birth right of Italy in Africa, the so called fourth shore, Forces began to land later in the year, quickly making work against the local militias, however the Desert could not be secured due to the lawlessness of the Bedouin tribes.
1868: To appease the Pope even more after the Treaty of Ostia Antica, the minarets of the mosques of Tripoli, Benghazi and Misurta were torn down and the mosques refaced as churches, with Italian citizens being imported to take up residences in the old bourgeoisie houses of these cities as the overclass.
1869: Construction begins on the Libyan railroad to make rule easier in the troubled part of Metropolitan Italy, in which to allow the local Carabinieri to quickly respond along the coast to threats.
1870: The Empire of Italy under the Fini cabinet declares war on the Archduchy of Austria, in an attempt to seize the Austrian littoral, which due to it's large Italian population was sought after heavily by the Nationalists. The war began with Italian forays into the hills of Gorizia which happened with minimal success from the Italians, until encouraged by Propaganda the Italian populace began to provide assistance to the Imperial army through path finding and passages unknown to the Austrian army, allowing the Italians the advantage of terrain, the Imperial Army continued to be successful until Trieste in which the army was bogged down n fighting the Austrian's in the Karst, this was due to the general lack of support from the Slovenians in pushing off the Austrian yoke, fortunately the Austrian forces broke in the late fall. Due to the gravity of the situation and the entrance of winter, which was made harsher by the Bora winds in Trieste, the Austrians and Italians entered peace talks, in which Italy would sign a Non aggression pact with Austria, Austrian would recognize the Italian claims to the Littoral and Cariniola and cede these lands, and Italy and Austria would both bay reparations for the damages.
1880: The Expedition of 1880 was launched in a strike on the Ethiopian Empire, in response to the ongoing colonization of Africa, Italian forces, numbering 100,000 were sent to secure the coast and establish supply routes, these forces were then attacked by the Ethiopian army, which was historically routed at the battle of Bannio Nuovo in which the Italian and Ethiopian armies were both heavily damage, following a lengthy war in which in finality the capital of Ethiopia was seized, the Italians offered a generous peace deal of Italy propper only seizing the Eritrean coast, while the Negus Negast of Ethiopia was to recognize his sovereign as the Emperor of the Italians, in exchange for the continued freedom to the rule Ethiopia, the Italians themselves were to help develop said country until further terms were to be agreed on.
1900:The Italian government under the orders General Afredo Levi ordered false flag movements under the banners of Greece to allow for a pretext of War to defend Italy from the Greek harassment. As such the Italian Imperial Army struck at the Greek client state of Albania, while blockading the ports of Attica in an attempts to force the Greeks to the Table. ultimately the Italian army encircled the Greeks at the Battle of Argyrokastro in which two divisions of Greek soldiers surrendered to the Italians, later leading to the occupation of the entirety of Greece. Peace although damaging was in no means harsh for Greece, which was forced into an Alliance with Italy, as well as personal Union. Greece however was to remain a completely free on the books nation, with only minor cessations of Corfu, Crete and the Dodcanese, and the annexation of Albania.
1910: Completion of the Alpine forts which began construction as a defense from both sides of the more apparent European blocs as to defend Italy's neutrality in the affairs of Continental supremacy.
RP Sample: (required) NI 1 (Since every other RP i get into dies.)
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Alouite
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12476
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Alouite » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:08 pm

The Jonathanian States wrote:
Alouite wrote:I'm sorry, this posting format you replied with is highly hard to understand, to me it looks very randomly thrown together albeit in numerical order, however, I'll reply to the areas you pointed out. Due to the way you replied you'll have to bear with the way I number my responses.


Err... I'm sorry? My format of answering things is, and has been for quite a long time, replying to each part there's an issue with - rather than giving a single general statement.
1 )On the topic of who would've taken military action against a Batavian Republic: Well then you get people who've already apped to change their history for my app. I did it for the convenience of other RPers along with my own, I wanted to make this process easy, obviously I should've wrote it when I wasn't tired (One thing I should mention is I don't use proper paragraph form when tired as you can see in my app), but even then I saw that it'd be a pain in the ass to get the other former coalition rpers who already wrote apps for their nations to amend their apps to have a war with the Dutch.

Only two definite members of the coalition have been accepted, a potential third one has been, and an important fourth one has not applied yet.
One of first is me, so there's that.
Anyway, the remaining issue is that I don't think the war the coalition could have had more than one end. This is the main issue I have here.
2 )I didn't mean how Napoleon conquered all of their colonies, but I meant that the Dutch only took a single territory and a small one at that. Just strategic.

Alsace-Lorraine is only a single territory, a small one too (when compared to either France or Germany as a whole), and it is indeed strategic.
Just as Alsace-Lorraine in France, at least to the best of my knowledge, the Canaries are considered a part of Spain "proper", not some far colony, but a part of the Metropolitan heartland. Unlike Alsace-Lorraine, I believe the Canaries were fully continuously Spanish since the 15th or 16th century.
3 )If you want a Dutch-Prussian war then just say it we can negotiate that one out since you're Germany, it'd add realism, I just didn't wanna burden you with it.

First of all, thanks for not wanting to burden me with it.
But I honestly don't quite see the reason for it, except as part of the counter-revolutionary reaction to your revolution. For which, as I already said above, I don't see many possible ends.
4 ) It's interesting you mention that, the Brits mentioned it a few times back in the olden days. It was used as a stopping point for ships bound from the far east to the UK,

Never heard that, but I guess once it's conquered it makes sense.
allowed them easy unhindered trade port and access through the strait of Gibraltar

I don't quite see why the Rock gives them unhindered access.... It allows them to remove hindrances, but they could do so previously as well, just that now their reaction would be a lot quicker.
and the potential capacity to plunder or prevent trade along the strait.

That I did acknowledge in my own post. But if you want this potential capacity you do not need a protectorate over all of Morocco. At All. What you'd need is to seize, say Tangiers, or a different port in the Rif.
I could do a LOT more looking around to find a better quote, but instead I'll find the one that inspired me to do the same with Morocco, a statement which started the UK's interest in conquering Gibraltar (IIRC).


Annoyance of the Spanish, sure. Advantage to our trade? I suppose so. Except this isn't, as you earlier said, a desire to get into the Med's market. It's a strengthening or maybe expansion of that market, but British trade there without a doubt already existed in a significant form, as implied by Gibraltar advancing trade and being worth it for that purpose.
5 )The reason they turned Morocco into a protectorate, which we will say happened later in the 1870s, was to further Dutch Legitimacy by having it's very own underling nation,

Prestige. It's Prestige that having colonies and underlings would bring. At least, if you mean what I think you mean.
two, have a trade portal to the Mediteranean,

Still doesn't require more than the Rif, let alone parts of it.
three, get some cheap Arab trade,

Cheap trade, export markets. Good reasons for colonies. Except in Africa that only became popular in the 1880s or it would've been conducted by having trade posts on the cost.
four, Phosphorous to build the rails and clear areas,

I'm not quite sure, but I think the phosphorus industry of Morocco started in the 1970s. I base that on it having been "singled out for development" in 1973's five-year plan, as well as there being no mention of it in the Protectorate. Though maybe it just was significantly increased then.
Regardless of that, it still wouldn't fit as a reason in 1870. And with clearing areas do you mean using it in incendiary bombs?
and five, because having a protectorate can help in wars when you need extra men to send at the enemy.

Though usually those men, and additional men from back home, are used in defending that colony against enemies that might attack it and against uprisings by the locals.
Except for India I don't think (m)any colonies were profitable in terms of manpower.
6 )Ah, I see the confusion, I meant in rough/flat/forested/urban/etc. terrain, not the extremes such as jungles, and the like

Well, normal troops would without a doubt be trained for open areas, the area being rough just requiring a change in tactics by officers.
Forested is fine. And Urban.... Unless you were dealing with irregulars, that is rebels and the like, it rarely happened before WW2.
Beyond that I can't quite say if it wasn't taught to troops at all, or if it was taught to regulars, but during the Bloody Week at the end of the Paris Commune the French army did engage in Urban warfare, and did seem capable of dealing with the issues of Urban warfare, including breaching into houses, thereby flanking Communard barricades.
though with a Moroccan protectorate they could train in mountainous and desert terrain and become experienced in those conditions, I didn't mean for them to seem to crazy.

I still think that before the commercialization of air transport you would not have military units adapted to multiple terrains. It simply wouldn't be practical. Units would have garrisons at certain places and might be adapted to those.
Special forces as we know them are a WW2 and post-WW2 development.
7 )Yes, well the Chasseurs a Cheval are not the Dutch Army Rangers are they?

What you previously said was: " while they are still highly maneuverable being chasseurs a cheval" So, no. The DARs are Chasseurs a cheval, though, which is light cavalry tasked with eliminating enemy irregulars as well as recon.
They are meant to be an improvement, not a complete copy.

Mhm.
And they could be used as infantry if needed would also be the idea

So dragoons? Units that even tactically acted as cavalry but would sometimes dismount and fight on foot?
almost like chausseurs mixed with dragoons when needed.

I haven't yet seen that (with chasseurs a cheval)... Unless you mean in their organizational structure, in which case that is based on the fact that the original chasseurs a cheval were dragoons that fought with chasseurs a pied, before becoming a unit distinction. What I do know of is CaCs operating with Hussars, which is related to them having rather similar objectives.
Very adaptable but well trained light infantry/cavalry

This might be acceptable.
good for deployment wherever needed

This is my main issue.
8 )As for you're last two questions, I fail to understand you're meaning. I was only saying that eventually further down the road they, like anything else, would be modernized and lose their horses for other means of transportation.

I see. Well, that's a misunderstanding on my part then, ignore those two questions then.


First of all, I'm glad we're getting somewhere, I think in perhaps one or two more exchanges at most we can come to an agreement. Though I apologize I hadn't clarified some things and fixed some things prior to engaging in this dialogue. I think I can break this down to three points

1) On the topic of the Canaries, I will be willing to trade them for another, more sensible location and have a small war with Spain over perhaps a different issue such as a trade conflict where we started monopolizing in former majority Spaniard Markets such as African trade posts, Indo-Chinese areas, and the New World. I need Batavian prestige to rise somehow to justify continued Batavian increases in nationalism and jingoism so if you could pitch me an alternative if you don't like this new idea, go ahead I have no quarrel with that. Perhaps the Congo could've been colonized by them in the 1890s to fill the Belgian niche there? Though it's bigger it'd have a much smaller effect on old monarchies.

2) On the topic of Morocco, I'll have had the Rif become a protectorate early on and then move it's full colonization to the 1880s to justify total colonization. And yes, the white phosphorous would be used as massive land clearing incendiaries, but at this point their discovery would be new and the railways would be under construction in the 1910s.

3) On the topic of the chausseurs au cheval/dragoon crossovers, I'm glad you're okay with a light infantry/light cavalry force. And yeah, they won't have to be perfect in all terrains, I respect that point you made.
National Liberalism, National School Economics, National Dividend, Constitutional Originalism, Protection of US Domestic Trade, The Chinese Gov't in Exile in Taipei, and Ending the War on Nouns
Hyman Minsky
Totalitarianism, the Destruction of the Environment, Racism, and, most of all, people who end statements in questions?
The Patriot Act, The Illegitimate Communist Authorities in China, Economic Libertarianism, Absolutism and Communism

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Baja California y Sonora
Minister
 
Posts: 3050
Founded: Oct 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Baja California y Sonora » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:24 pm

Generic Info
Nation Name: Republic of Chile
Symbols:
-Flag
- Coat of Arms
- Presidential Standard
- National Anthem

Homeland Population: 4,688,600
Imperial Population: 1,600 in Easter Island.
Location/Claims: This
Capital City: Santiago de Chile

Government Info
Government Type: Federal presidential constitutional republic
Brief Explanation of Government: Chile is a representative democracy with the president acting as both head of state and head of government. Chile has three branches, the Legislative, the Executive and the Judiciary, all whom are limited by one another. The National Congress is divided into two, the Senate and the Chamber of Deputies. The Senate is made up of 38 members who are directly voted in by the population of their home province. The Chamber of Deputies is made up of 120 member who are also voted by the people of their home province.
The Executive Branch is led by the President, and acts as the chief of the nation's armed forces. The Judiciary is the Supreme court.
Ideology: Progressivism, Liberal-Conservatism
Leader/s: Ramón Barros Luco

Population Info
Brief Description of your people: Composed of Spaniards and Amerindians, two vastly different people who have united to form the union in which they live in. These determined people alike only look for the best of their country whether it is from the mines of the Antofagasta or the port of Valparaiso. The tongue of the people is Spanish, though throughout the country various native languages are spoken. Religion is what really unites the country as the blanket of Roman Catholicism brings warmth to every citizen. In the wave of competition that has flooded the hearts of the population, Chilean citizens are ever more determined to bring Chile glory. The northern provinces like the extreme south is still being integrated into the main Chilean core.
Religion: Secular.
Ethnicity: Hispanic(White, Mixed, Amerindian, Black, etc..)
Main/Accepted Culture(s): Chilean, Spanish, West Europeans with capital.
Other Cultures: Peruvian, Argentine, Bolivian, Amerindian.

Military Info
Army: 20,000 active, 15,000 reserve. The size of Chilean army may be small compared to it's neighbors, however it makes up for it by employing foreign training, and equipping it with the latest technology that enables it to keep up with her much larger neighbors.
Navy: 2 dreadnoughts, 3 pre-dreadnoughts, 6 protected cruisers, 1 armed cruiser, 6 destroyers, 6 torpedo boats. Chile's navy, though smaller than that of Argentina and Brazil has the newest ships. Chile's navy is based off of the German model, which to reach such levels much improvement is required.

Other Info
Brief Description of your Economy:
Goals: Keep up with Argentina and Brazil in all areas. Protect continued interests in Bolivia. Increase Chile's prestige.
History:
RP Sample: (required)
429 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes.

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The Jonathanian States
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13692
Founded: Nov 29, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Jonathanian States » Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:11 pm

Fridur wrote:
The Kingdom of Glitter wrote:
Already part of the accepted United States of Columbia.



Oh, I thought Columbia was the South American one haha, thanks for the info.

That's Colombia.

Fridur wrote:Reservation:
Location: Belgium (as well as the colonies)
Nation Name: Belgium
635 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes.

Belgium never was born, here.

Fridur wrote:Reservation:
Location: the original CSA states
Nation Name: CSA
635 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes.

Nope.

Elepis wrote:
The Jonathanian States wrote:
I'd say we have it be a yugoslav/Montenegrin/Serbian nationalist from Montenegro who shoots somebody important in Sarajevo or Zagreb or someplace. Hungary threatens the Black Mountain, Russia threatens Hungary, Germany threatens Russia, France threatens Germany, Britain threatens its bag of popcorn. Go go go


I'm sure I'v heard that before...

No you didn't. I completely invented that idea on my own.

Jade Confederacy wrote:
Liecthenbourg wrote:We're waiting on the Russian Application.
Calt's given me the go-ahead to get an IC up, but Russia is an important nation.

Does that mean you revoke Columbia reservation? Senkaku is interested in replacing him but you need to Ok the go ahead and TG him that its open

Columbia told me he'd try to apply today unless Sen applies before him.


Jade Confederacy wrote:
The Kingdom of Glitter wrote:Already part of the accepted United States of Columbia.

The OP really should update the front page

Yes.


Alouite wrote:
The Jonathanian States wrote:
Err... I'm sorry? My format of answering things is, and has been for quite a long time, replying to each part there's an issue with - rather than giving a single general statement.
Only two definite members of the coalition have been accepted, a potential third one has been, and an important fourth one has not applied yet.
One of first is me, so there's that.
Anyway, the remaining issue is that I don't think the war the coalition could have had more than one end. This is the main issue I have here.

Alsace-Lorraine is only a single territory, a small one too (when compared to either France or Germany as a whole), and it is indeed strategic.
Just as Alsace-Lorraine in France, at least to the best of my knowledge, the Canaries are considered a part of Spain "proper", not some far colony, but a part of the Metropolitan heartland. Unlike Alsace-Lorraine, I believe the Canaries were fully continuously Spanish since the 15th or 16th century.

First of all, thanks for not wanting to burden me with it.
But I honestly don't quite see the reason for it, except as part of the counter-revolutionary reaction to your revolution. For which, as I already said above, I don't see many possible ends.

Never heard that, but I guess once it's conquered it makes sense.

I don't quite see why the Rock gives them unhindered access.... It allows them to remove hindrances, but they could do so previously as well, just that now their reaction would be a lot quicker.

That I did acknowledge in my own post. But if you want this potential capacity you do not need a protectorate over all of Morocco. At All. What you'd need is to seize, say Tangiers, or a different port in the Rif.

Annoyance of the Spanish, sure. Advantage to our trade? I suppose so. Except this isn't, as you earlier said, a desire to get into the Med's market. It's a strengthening or maybe expansion of that market, but British trade there without a doubt already existed in a significant form, as implied by Gibraltar advancing trade and being worth it for that purpose.

Prestige. It's Prestige that having colonies and underlings would bring. At least, if you mean what I think you mean.

Still doesn't require more than the Rif, let alone parts of it.

Cheap trade, export markets. Good reasons for colonies. Except in Africa that only became popular in the 1880s or it would've been conducted by having trade posts on the cost.

I'm not quite sure, but I think the phosphorus industry of Morocco started in the 1970s. I base that on it having been "singled out for development" in 1973's five-year plan, as well as there being no mention of it in the Protectorate. Though maybe it just was significantly increased then.
Regardless of that, it still wouldn't fit as a reason in 1870. And with clearing areas do you mean using it in incendiary bombs?

Though usually those men, and additional men from back home, are used in defending that colony against enemies that might attack it and against uprisings by the locals.
Except for India I don't think (m)any colonies were profitable in terms of manpower.

Well, normal troops would without a doubt be trained for open areas, the area being rough just requiring a change in tactics by officers.
Forested is fine. And Urban.... Unless you were dealing with irregulars, that is rebels and the like, it rarely happened before WW2.
Beyond that I can't quite say if it wasn't taught to troops at all, or if it was taught to regulars, but during the Bloody Week at the end of the Paris Commune the French army did engage in Urban warfare, and did seem capable of dealing with the issues of Urban warfare, including breaching into houses, thereby flanking Communard barricades.

I still think that before the commercialization of air transport you would not have military units adapted to multiple terrains. It simply wouldn't be practical. Units would have garrisons at certain places and might be adapted to those.
Special forces as we know them are a WW2 and post-WW2 development.

What you previously said was: " while they are still highly maneuverable being chasseurs a cheval" So, no. The DARs are Chasseurs a cheval, though, which is light cavalry tasked with eliminating enemy irregulars as well as recon.

Mhm.

So dragoons? Units that even tactically acted as cavalry but would sometimes dismount and fight on foot?

I haven't yet seen that (with chasseurs a cheval)... Unless you mean in their organizational structure, in which case that is based on the fact that the original chasseurs a cheval were dragoons that fought with chasseurs a pied, before becoming a unit distinction. What I do know of is CaCs operating with Hussars, which is related to them having rather similar objectives.

This might be acceptable.

This is my main issue.

I see. Well, that's a misunderstanding on my part then, ignore those two questions then.


First of all, I'm glad we're getting somewhere, I think in perhaps one or two more exchanges at most we can come to an agreement. Though I apologize I hadn't clarified some things and fixed some things prior to engaging in this dialogue. I think I can break this down to three points

1) On the topic of the Canaries, I will be willing to trade them for another, more sensible location and have a small war with Spain over perhaps a different issue such as a trade conflict where we started monopolizing in former majority Spaniard Markets such as African trade posts, Indo-Chinese areas, and the New World. I need Batavian prestige to rise somehow to justify continued Batavian increases in nationalism and jingoism so if you could pitch me an alternative if you don't like this new idea, go ahead I have no quarrel with that. Perhaps the Congo could've been colonized by them in the 1890s to fill the Belgian niche there? Though it's bigger it'd have a much smaller effect on old monarchies.

2) On the topic of Morocco, I'll have had the Rif become a protectorate early on and then move it's full colonization to the 1880s to justify total colonization. And yes, the white phosphorous would be used as massive land clearing incendiaries, but at this point their discovery would be new and the railways would be under construction in the 1910s.

3) On the topic of the chausseurs au cheval/dragoon crossovers, I'm glad you're okay with a light infantry/light cavalry force. And yeah, they won't have to be perfect in all terrains, I respect that point you made.

Before I even start answering this:
You did not react to what I believe I twice or so stated as my principle issue with the Batavian Republic. It's a fucking republic, created by power of revolution, rather quickly after the French one. So let me quote myself:
Anyway, the remaining issue is that I don't think the war the coalition could have had more than one end. This is the main issue I have here.

But I honestly don't quite see the reason for it, except as part of the counter-revolutionary reaction to your revolution. For which, as I already said above, I don't see many possible ends.

But that doesn't seem to have been clear enough, so I'll be rather blunt.
I do not think the Batavian Republic born as you have it be, has a survivability of more than four years, after which it would be dead. I know a dead republic when I see one, this one is dead. It is deceased. It's bleedin demised. It would have passed on. It would be no more. It would have expired and went to meet its maker. This is a late Republic. It is pushing up the daisies. It has joined the choir invisible. This is an Ex-Republic.
Prestige is not what would save Batavia. Short of a Napoleonic Victory or Negotiated Peace Batavia is doomed and denied existence for quite a long period.


ICD, I'll take a look at your app.
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Alouite
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Postby Alouite » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:11 pm

The Jonathanian States wrote:Before I even start answering this:
You did not react to what I believe I twice or so stated as my principle issue with the Batavian Republic. It's a fucking republic, created by power of revolution, rather quickly after the French one. So let me quote myself:
Anyway, the remaining issue is that I don't think the war the coalition could have had more than one end. This is the main issue I have here.

But I honestly don't quite see the reason for it, except as part of the counter-revolutionary reaction to your revolution. For which, as I already said above, I don't see many possible ends.

But that doesn't seem to have been clear enough, so I'll be rather blunt.
I do not think the Batavian Republic born as you have it be, has a survivability of more than four years, after which it would be dead. I know a dead republic when I see one, this one is dead. It is deceased. It's bleedin demised. It would have passed on. It would be no more. It would have expired and went to meet its maker. This is a late Republic. It is pushing up the daisies. It has joined the choir invisible. This is an Ex-Republic.
Prestige is not what would save Batavia. Short of a Napoleonic Victory or Negotiated Peace Batavia is doomed and denied existence for quite a long period.



You're leaving me with nothing to work with here, can the republic have been established in the 1870s or 90s? In exchange I give up southern Morocco and keep the Rif due to a lack of time to obtain the southern region?
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Fridur
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Postby Fridur » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:24 pm

When the Co-OP is secretly a Drill Instructor.

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The Jonathanian States
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Postby The Jonathanian States » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:40 pm

Alouite wrote:
The Jonathanian States wrote:Before I even start answering this:
You did not react to what I believe I twice or so stated as my principle issue with the Batavian Republic. It's a fucking republic, created by power of revolution, rather quickly after the French one. So let me quote myself:


But that doesn't seem to have been clear enough, so I'll be rather blunt.
I do not think the Batavian Republic born as you have it be, has a survivability of more than four years, after which it would be dead. I know a dead republic when I see one, this one is dead. It is deceased. It's bleedin demised. It would have passed on. It would be no more. It would have expired and went to meet its maker. This is a late Republic. It is pushing up the daisies. It has joined the choir invisible. This is an Ex-Republic.
Prestige is not what would save Batavia. Short of a Napoleonic Victory or Negotiated Peace Batavia is doomed and denied existence for quite a long period.



You're leaving me with nothing to work with here, can the republic have been established in the 1870s or 90s?

If you agree to that, this sounds a lot more reasonable, IMO, yes.
In exchange I give up southern Morocco and keep the Rif due to a lack of time to obtain the southern region?

Actually, nobody properly made a protectorate out of Morocco until 2 years before WW1 because they were a relatively tough nut to crack, together with Ethiopia and Liberia they remained independent for basically the whole Scramble.
And it was only after the beginning of the 20th century that France made proper advances on them.
Fridur wrote:When the Co-OP is secretly a Drill Instructor.

That's a "When the Co-OP is secretely a Drill instructor, SIR", from you! Understood, private?
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Alouite
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Postby Alouite » Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:44 pm

The Jonathanian States wrote:
Alouite wrote:

You're leaving me with nothing to work with here, can the republic have been established in the 1870s or 90s?

If you agree to that, this sounds a lot more reasonable, IMO, yes.
In exchange I give up southern Morocco and keep the Rif due to a lack of time to obtain the southern region?

Actually, nobody properly made a protectorate out of Morocco until 2 years before WW1 because they were a relatively tough nut to crack, together with Ethiopia and Liberia they remained independent for basically the whole Scramble.
And it was only after the beginning of the 20th century that France made proper advances on them.


I am perfectly aware of the Second Moroccan Crisis and the history that surrounds it, but this is AH and thus such things can be ignored. They would normally put up a fight, but if we took advantage of a civil war, well, we could change history.
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The Kingdom of Glitter
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Postby The Kingdom of Glitter » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:06 pm

Dat Russia tho

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The Industrial States of Columbia
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Postby The Industrial States of Columbia » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:19 pm

The Kingdom of Glitter wrote:Dat Russia tho


Just got back from work. I am of on zis like lice on peasants :blush:
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The Kingdom of Glitter
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Postby The Kingdom of Glitter » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:24 pm

The Industrial States of Columbia wrote:
The Kingdom of Glitter wrote:Dat Russia tho


Just got back from work. I am of on zis like lice on peasants :blush:


Okay fab apply so we can get us an IC.

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Kisinger
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Postby Kisinger » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:36 pm

The Kingdom of Glitter wrote:
The Industrial States of Columbia wrote:
Just got back from work. I am of on zis like lice on peasants :blush:


Okay fab apply so we can get us an IC.

Urrahhhhhh!
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Postby Elepis » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:50 pm

If Jade is not accepted yet, do I have to wait till he is to send my troops invading holidaying?
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Postby Liecthenbourg » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:33 am

Elepis wrote:If Jade is not accepted yet, do I have to wait till he is to send my troops invading holidaying?

Jon and I will probably give the app a gander later on today.

No worries.
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The Jonathanian States
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Postby The Jonathanian States » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:56 am

Alouite wrote:
The Jonathanian States wrote:If you agree to that, this sounds a lot more reasonable, IMO, yes.

Actually, nobody properly made a protectorate out of Morocco until 2 years before WW1 because they were a relatively tough nut to crack, together with Ethiopia and Liberia they remained independent for basically the whole Scramble.
And it was only after the beginning of the 20th century that France made proper advances on them.


I am perfectly aware of the Second Moroccan Crisis and the history that surrounds it, but this is AH and thus such things can be ignored.

Within reason, yes.
They would normally put up a fight, but if we took advantage of a civil war,

I think I'd rather you not. At least not as a cause for success, unless you give it too a reason.
well, we could change history.

Mhm.

So back to our earlier discussion, I suppose:
Alouite wrote:....
1) On the topic of the Canaries, I will be willing to trade them for another, more sensible location

Great.
and have a small war with Spain over perhaps a different issue such as a trade conflict

Sounds good.
where we started monopolizing in former majority Spaniard Markets such as African trade posts,

Not quite as good.
Indo-Chinese areas,

Except for the Philippines I don't think they were too invested in that area.
and the New World.

Except for Cuba and PR they lost all their colonies there by 1833, and I'd assume their economic influence appropriately sunk as well.
I need Batavian prestige to rise somehow to justify continued Batavian increases in nationalism and jingoism

Couldn't the revolution itself cause that, as seen in the french revolution? Or do you need that boost sometime later?
so if you could pitch me an alternative if you don't like this new idea, go ahead I have no quarrel with that.

See above, I guess?
Perhaps the Congo could've been colonized by them in the 1890s

At least the mouth of the Congo you must've colonized in the middle 1880s, IIRC, as I believe it was a rather desired spot which Belgium got due to a conference.
to fill the Belgian niche there?

I guess.
Though it's bigger it'd have a much smaller effect on old monarchies.

Considering France as a republic was one of the leading colonizers, I don't think it would have quite an effect at all, at this point..
2) On the topic of Morocco, I'll have had the Rif become a protectorate early on and then move it's full colonization to the 1880s to justify total colonization.

Sounds good.
And yes, the white phosphorous would be used as massive land clearing incendiaries, but at this point their discovery would be new and the railways would be under construction in the 1910s.

mhm.
3) On the topic of the chausseurs au cheval/dragoon crossovers, I'm glad you're okay with a light infantry/light cavalry force.

Because that is rather literally how the Chasseur Cavalry developed. I'm pretty sure dragoons usually were line rather than light infantry, but making the change there should be a minor thing.
The practical use of which I'm not quite sure, considering light cavalry and infantry have some overlap in objectives and such, but it would be possible, yes.
And yeah, they won't have to be perfect in all terrains, I respect that point you made.

Thank you.



Liecthenbourg wrote:
Elepis wrote:If Jade is not accepted yet, do I have to wait till he is to send my troops invading holidaying?

Jon and I will probably give the app a gander later on today.

No worries.

Aye.

Kisinger wrote:
The Kingdom of Glitter wrote:
Okay fab apply so we can get us an IC.

Urrahhhhhh!

I second that emotion.
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Alouite
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Postby Alouite » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:45 am

The Jonathanian States wrote:
Alouite wrote:
I am perfectly aware of the Second Moroccan Crisis and the history that surrounds it, but this is AH and thus such things can be ignored.

Within reason, yes.
They would normally put up a fight, but if we took advantage of a civil war,

I think I'd rather you not. At least not as a cause for success, unless you give it too a reason.
well, we could change history.

Mhm.

So back to our earlier discussion, I suppose:
Alouite wrote:....
1) On the topic of the Canaries, I will be willing to trade them for another, more sensible location

Great.
and have a small war with Spain over perhaps a different issue such as a trade conflict

Sounds good.
where we started monopolizing in former majority Spaniard Markets such as African trade posts,

Not quite as good.
Indo-Chinese areas,

Except for the Philippines I don't think they were too invested in that area.
and the New World.

Except for Cuba and PR they lost all their colonies there by 1833, and I'd assume their economic influence appropriately sunk as well.
I need Batavian prestige to rise somehow to justify continued Batavian increases in nationalism and jingoism

Couldn't the revolution itself cause that, as seen in the french revolution? Or do you need that boost sometime later?
so if you could pitch me an alternative if you don't like this new idea, go ahead I have no quarrel with that.

See above, I guess?
Perhaps the Congo could've been colonized by them in the 1890s

At least the mouth of the Congo you must've colonized in the middle 1880s, IIRC, as I believe it was a rather desired spot which Belgium got due to a conference.
to fill the Belgian niche there?

I guess.
Though it's bigger it'd have a much smaller effect on old monarchies.

Considering France as a republic was one of the leading colonizers, I don't think it would have quite an effect at all, at this point..
2) On the topic of Morocco, I'll have had the Rif become a protectorate early on and then move it's full colonization to the 1880s to justify total colonization.

Sounds good.
And yes, the white phosphorous would be used as massive land clearing incendiaries, but at this point their discovery would be new and the railways would be under construction in the 1910s.

mhm.
3) On the topic of the chausseurs au cheval/dragoon crossovers, I'm glad you're okay with a light infantry/light cavalry force.

Because that is rather literally how the Chasseur Cavalry developed. I'm pretty sure dragoons usually were line rather than light infantry, but making the change there should be a minor thing.
The practical use of which I'm not quite sure, considering light cavalry and infantry have some overlap in objectives and such, but it would be possible, yes.
And yeah, they won't have to be perfect in all terrains, I respect that point you made.

Thank you.



1) Okay so lets say the Dutch were already economically invested in Northern Morocco during the 1860s - 1890s, over time a greedy prince who got himself rich on Dutch trade rose up to seize the crown and requested assistance (Maybe in the 1890s to space things out a bit, especially because, as you said, Morocco took a while to fall), normally the Dutch would let him and his revolt die, but instead they seize the opportunity to slap regulations on their trade partner making it unceasingly loyal by contract. How does that history sound? It'd show the negative effect of colonialism over a duration on a local populace through a shift in local economies and allow this whole Rif thing to be settled for once and for all with a civil war which effectively splits Morocco into an area that is beneficial to the Dutch and an area that is to be decided on for colonization later.

2) On the subject of trade monopolization of former Spanish and Spanish posts, perhaps we get perceived as trying to replace and hurt their already waning trade power, a dispute arises and no diplomatic conclusion can be found, so the Spaniards and Dutch go to war over trade assets and interests. The Dutch effectively win overseas and the Spanish just take a hit to their already weakened self pride something that happened a lot in the 1800s and early 1900s.

3) On the subject of the Congo, I agree that the 1880s would be an era for colonization in the Congo, by the 1900s we could claim the whole congo area as we know it, but only have gotten so far into completely colonizing it.

4) On the subject of my Dutch Army Rangers, it seems we have an agreement for the most part.
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The Kingdom of Glitter
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Postby The Kingdom of Glitter » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:53 am

mmm dat russia app tho

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Alouite
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Postby Alouite » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:14 am

The Kingdom of Glitter wrote:mmm dat russia app tho

Lol.
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The Jonathanian States
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Postby The Jonathanian States » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:08 am

The imperial canadian dutchy wrote:-snip-

Well, Liecth and myself went over this... and we at this point cannot accept it.
For starters, Calt's country is based on Napoleons return attempt and the 100 days never happening.
Beyond that, you did not even once give a number that is an amount of troops, unit numbers not being quite useful as they can have very wide ranges.
The Stormtroopers are an absolute no-no.
Your population seems rather on the high side.
Your planes most likely are way too high, but that is hard to say without knowing the proper number.
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Liecthenbourg
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liecthenbourg » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:54 pm

Roster's been updated.
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I'm just a simple Kylarite, trying to make my way on NS.

The Gaullican Republic,
I thank God for Three Things:
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The Transtsabaran Federation and The Chistovodian Workers' State

To understand European history watch these: Cultural erosion, German and Italian history, a brief history of Germany.

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Terminus Alpha
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Postby Terminus Alpha » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:14 pm

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Lunas Legion
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Postby Lunas Legion » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:16 pm

Another for the Franco-Russian Entente.
Last edited by William Slim Wed Dec 14 1970 10:35 pm, edited 35 times in total.

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Alouite
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Postby Alouite » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:00 pm

For tJS, I'm gonna rewrite my app and get it up for re-evaluation.
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The imperial canadian dutchy
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Postby The imperial canadian dutchy » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:42 pm

The Jonathanian States wrote:
The imperial canadian dutchy wrote:-snip-

Well, Liecth and myself went over this... and we at this point cannot accept it.
For starters, Calt's country is based on Napoleons return attempt and the 100 days never happening.
Beyond that, you did not even once give a number that is an amount of troops, unit numbers not being quite useful as they can have very wide ranges.
The Stormtroopers are an absolute no-no.
Your population seems rather on the high side.
Your planes most likely are way too high, but that is hard to say without knowing the proper number.

Population in European claims is on the low side due to me not wanting to do the islands on populstat

My country is also based on the 100 days not happening.

I honestly have no ideas of the troop numbers, maybe just take troop numbers of WW1?

Storm troopers actually existed at this as the Arditi are something I took out of real life,

Planes are numbers during WW1
e

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The Kingdom of Glitter
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Founded: Jan 08, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Kingdom of Glitter » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:49 pm

Lunas Legion wrote:Another for the Franco-Russian Entente.


If only we had a Russia accepted...

At least the Anglo-American Entente is nice and accepted :)

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