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Jaslandia
Minister
 
Posts: 2652
Founded: Aug 11, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jaslandia » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:50 am

Liecthenbourg wrote:
Jaslandia wrote:Argie doesn't want to remove Brazil from her 'pedestal'. Argie just wants some respect and to finally be taken seriously.

GTFO of my Continent; you cow-herding Spaniards! :u

Why do I have to move? Why can't you move, you samba-loving Portuguese? :p
Call me Jaslandia or Jas, either one works
This nation (mostly) represents my political views.
Factbook
Puppets: Partrica, New Jaslandia, Kasbahan
Pro: Regulated Capitalism, Two-state solution, nice people, Nerdfighteria, democracy, science, public education, rationalism, reason, logic, politeness, LGBT rights, feminism, UN, Democratic Party

Anti: Religious extremism/fundamentalism, terrorism, dictatorship, oppression, hatred, bigotry, racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, conspiracy theories, Stalinism, theocracy, social conservatism, corruption, Nazism, Vladimir Putin, Republican Party

In-between: Religion, socialism, Barack Obama

RP Population: 675,000,000

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Liecthenbourg
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12971
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liecthenbourg » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:59 am

Jaslandia wrote:
Liecthenbourg wrote:GTFO of my Continent; you cow-herding Spaniards! :u

Why do I have to move? Why can't you move, you samba-loving Portuguese? :p

Because its my continent.

Also, I'm the only Portuguese Speaking Nation in the Americas; there are plenty of you Spanish Speakers :P
Impeach the Mayor of Lego City Legalise Falling into the River The Rescue Helicopter Needs to be Built! HEY!
Grand-Master of the Kyluminati


The Region of Kylaris
I'm just a simple Kylarite, trying to make my way on NS.

The Gaullican Republic,
I thank God for Three Things:
Kylaris, the death of Esquarium, and Prem <3

The Transtsabaran Federation and The Chistovodian Workers' State

To understand European history watch these: Cultural erosion, German and Italian history, a brief history of Germany.

User avatar
Elepis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8963
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Elepis » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:01 pm

Is my appa okaya?
"Krugmar - Today at 10:00 PM
Not sure that'll work on Elepis considering he dislikes (from what I've observed):
A: Nationalism
B: Religion being taken seriously
C: The Irish"

User avatar
Liecthenbourg
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12971
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liecthenbourg » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:02 pm

Elepis wrote:
Liecthenbourg wrote:
Accepted.



Population for Korea is too high, should be roughly 15 million.
Your China population hits around 6 million, I believe.

Having Europeans as accepted Cultures is a bit iffy, I personally believe they wouldn't be accepted nor persecuted either.



Didn't know about China and Korea, will change, the European thing (which was not entirely serious) has been moved to "Other Cultures"

PS: Netherlands was reserved prior to Alouite

EDIT: voila

Generic Info
Nation Name: Empire of Japan
Symbols: Flag
Seal
Military Flag
Homeland Population: 77 million
Imperial Population: 15 million in Korea, 6 million in Taiwan and bits of China
Location/Claims: Japan (including southern Sakhalin), Korea, Taiwan, Hangzhou City, Yantai City, Port Arthur, also this thingy
Capital City: Tokyo

Government Info
Government Type:Constitutional monarchy with bicarmal parliament, Emperor as Head of State but heavy influence over government
Brief Explanation of Government: Ermm, can I answer with an infograph?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Politics_Under_Meiji_Constitution_02.svg/1100px-Politics_Under_Meiji_Constitution_02.svg.png
Ideology: Imperialism, Monarchism, Shintoism, Chauvinism, Jingosim
Leader/s: Emperor Taishō, Prime Minister Katsura Tarō

Population Info
Brief Description of your people: Mostly ethnic Japanese, in the islands of Hokkaido has a native Ainu population while Sakhalin as a small Russian population. Korea has a Korean population (duh) and its other colonies are mostly Chinese dominated.
Religion: Shintoism and Buddhism
Ethnicity: Japanese
Main/Accepted Culture(s): Japanese
Other Cultures: Korean, Chinese, Ainu, various Europeans, Brazilians, Russian

Military Info
Army:
Imperial Japanese Army: 1,500,000 (800,000 currently active, the rest are reserves). Well equipped, well trained, well led and well motivated. Almost without a doubt the most effective native land army in Asia. It is a veteran three important international conflicts, the Sino-Japanese War, the Boxer Rebellion and Russo-Japanese War. In all three of these conflicts (apart from the Boxers when it was part of a coalition) the IJA/IJN took on and defeated much larger countries, China and Russia respectively.
Navy:
Imperial Japanese Navy: Like the Army, it is modeled on European forces and is the largest and most effective native force in Asia, winning stunning victories in both the Sino-Japanese war and the Russo-Japanese War, most notably at Tsushima:
-Dreadnoughts: 6
-Pre-dreadnought battleships: 18
-Armoured cruisers: 12
-Protected cruisers: 24
-Light/scout cruisers: 3
-Destroyers: 50
-Submarines: 27
-30 Torpedo boats

Other Info
Brief Description of your Economy: Japan emerged from the Tokugawa-Meiji transition as the first Asian industrialized nation. From the onset, the Meiji rulers embraced the concept of a market economy and adopted British and North American forms of free enterprise capitalism. Rapid growth and structural change characterized Japan's two periods of economic development after 1868. Initially, the economy grew only moderately and relied heavily on traditional Japanese agriculture to finance modern industrial infrastructure. By the time the Russo-Japanese War began in 1904, 65% of employment and 38% of the gross domestic product (GDP) were still based on agriculture, but modern industry had begun to expand substantially.

From 1894, Japan built an extensive empire that included Taiwan, Korea, and parts of northern China. The Japanese regarded this sphere of influence as a political and economic necessity, which prevented foreign states from strangling Japan by blocking its access to raw materials and crucial sea-lanes. Japan's large military force was regarded as essential to the empire's defense and prosperity by obtaining natural resources that the Japanese islands lacked.
Goals:
Halt Chinese "modernization"
Build good relations with Britain and America, get stable relations with Russia
Acquire Resources
Keep China fractured and weak
Acquire Manchuria
Become arbiter of the East Pacific
History:
really the same as RL Japan, however, after the Sino-Japanese War, Japan demands slightly larger reparations from China. These amounted to control over the cities of Hangzou near Shanghai and city of Yantai and Port Arthur. After the Russo-Japanese War, Japan was given control over the South Manchuria Railway Zone, formally run by Russia.
RP Sample: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... shahanshah
429 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes.

Unless Jon or Calt say otherwise, I believe this is accepted.
Impeach the Mayor of Lego City Legalise Falling into the River The Rescue Helicopter Needs to be Built! HEY!
Grand-Master of the Kyluminati


The Region of Kylaris
I'm just a simple Kylarite, trying to make my way on NS.

The Gaullican Republic,
I thank God for Three Things:
Kylaris, the death of Esquarium, and Prem <3

The Transtsabaran Federation and The Chistovodian Workers' State

To understand European history watch these: Cultural erosion, German and Italian history, a brief history of Germany.

User avatar
Elepis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8963
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Elepis » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:03 pm

Liecthenbourg wrote:
Elepis wrote:
Didn't know about China and Korea, will change, the European thing (which was not entirely serious) has been moved to "Other Cultures"

PS: Netherlands was reserved prior to Alouite

EDIT: voila

Generic Info
Nation Name: Empire of Japan
Symbols: Flag
Seal
Military Flag
Homeland Population: 77 million
Imperial Population: 15 million in Korea, 6 million in Taiwan and bits of China
Location/Claims: Japan (including southern Sakhalin), Korea, Taiwan, Hangzhou City, Yantai City, Port Arthur, also this thingy
Capital City: Tokyo

Government Info
Government Type:Constitutional monarchy with bicarmal parliament, Emperor as Head of State but heavy influence over government
Brief Explanation of Government: Ermm, can I answer with an infograph?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Politics_Under_Meiji_Constitution_02.svg/1100px-Politics_Under_Meiji_Constitution_02.svg.png
Ideology: Imperialism, Monarchism, Shintoism, Chauvinism, Jingosim
Leader/s: Emperor Taishō, Prime Minister Katsura Tarō

Population Info
Brief Description of your people: Mostly ethnic Japanese, in the islands of Hokkaido has a native Ainu population while Sakhalin as a small Russian population. Korea has a Korean population (duh) and its other colonies are mostly Chinese dominated.
Religion: Shintoism and Buddhism
Ethnicity: Japanese
Main/Accepted Culture(s): Japanese
Other Cultures: Korean, Chinese, Ainu, various Europeans, Brazilians, Russian

Military Info
Army:
Imperial Japanese Army: 1,500,000 (800,000 currently active, the rest are reserves). Well equipped, well trained, well led and well motivated. Almost without a doubt the most effective native land army in Asia. It is a veteran three important international conflicts, the Sino-Japanese War, the Boxer Rebellion and Russo-Japanese War. In all three of these conflicts (apart from the Boxers when it was part of a coalition) the IJA/IJN took on and defeated much larger countries, China and Russia respectively.
Navy:
Imperial Japanese Navy: Like the Army, it is modeled on European forces and is the largest and most effective native force in Asia, winning stunning victories in both the Sino-Japanese war and the Russo-Japanese War, most notably at Tsushima:
-Dreadnoughts: 6
-Pre-dreadnought battleships: 18
-Armoured cruisers: 12
-Protected cruisers: 24
-Light/scout cruisers: 3
-Destroyers: 50
-Submarines: 27
-30 Torpedo boats

Other Info
Brief Description of your Economy: Japan emerged from the Tokugawa-Meiji transition as the first Asian industrialized nation. From the onset, the Meiji rulers embraced the concept of a market economy and adopted British and North American forms of free enterprise capitalism. Rapid growth and structural change characterized Japan's two periods of economic development after 1868. Initially, the economy grew only moderately and relied heavily on traditional Japanese agriculture to finance modern industrial infrastructure. By the time the Russo-Japanese War began in 1904, 65% of employment and 38% of the gross domestic product (GDP) were still based on agriculture, but modern industry had begun to expand substantially.

From 1894, Japan built an extensive empire that included Taiwan, Korea, and parts of northern China. The Japanese regarded this sphere of influence as a political and economic necessity, which prevented foreign states from strangling Japan by blocking its access to raw materials and crucial sea-lanes. Japan's large military force was regarded as essential to the empire's defense and prosperity by obtaining natural resources that the Japanese islands lacked.
Goals:
Halt Chinese "modernization"
Build good relations with Britain and America, get stable relations with Russia
Acquire Resources
Keep China fractured and weak
Acquire Manchuria
Become arbiter of the East Pacific
History:
really the same as RL Japan, however, after the Sino-Japanese War, Japan demands slightly larger reparations from China. These amounted to control over the cities of Hangzou near Shanghai and city of Yantai and Port Arthur. After the Russo-Japanese War, Japan was given control over the South Manchuria Railway Zone, formally run by Russia.
RP Sample: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=353341&hilit=shahanshah
429 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes.

Unless Jon or Calt say otherwise, I believe this is accepted.


yayy, anyway, I have to go. Byeee
"Krugmar - Today at 10:00 PM
Not sure that'll work on Elepis considering he dislikes (from what I've observed):
A: Nationalism
B: Religion being taken seriously
C: The Irish"

User avatar
The Jonathanian States
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13692
Founded: Nov 29, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Jonathanian States » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:19 pm

Alouite wrote:
The Jonathanian States wrote:
Those are not the only issues. Your response also lacks any mention of the Spanish war.


No I address it read my quote again, I'll bold and underline the area addressing the war with Spain here:

Alouite wrote:
1)Fair enough, I'll leave that law out of the listed ones.
2)A single formidably honorable Moroccan Prince and some of his adherents, not all the Princes.
3)Fair enough, especially because we are a Napoleonic State with high prestige. Why invest in tin cannons on wheels? I can accept that.

I'll edit areas 1 & 23 now, and hopefully we can agree on point two, the war was centered on the idea that the Dutch Navy was capable of overpowering the Spanish Navy which was still in the stages of recovery at the time, and thus capable of eliminating Spanish Naval supremacy in the war while allowing the Dutch to transport forces to the Canaries. Indeed, those Islands were the only Spanish Territory we took in that war, otherwise it was a war of prestige. The war In Morocco happens later in the App, and coincides with a powermongering royal prince (only one not all the princes) who is just a few lives away from being heir hoping for a means to rise up. The Dutch assist him in a coup with money, weapons and military support in exchange for a protectorate contract. Knowing that Domestic Rule power is better than no power at all, the prince accepts the contract. The war is won and a protectorate is set up where Moroccans are in a permanent alliance and trade agreement with the dutch which they prosper for in the form of a technological revolution.


Anyhow, I'm gonna make some changes, so don't think I'm gonna be too stubborn about this, I am willing to make some concessions, but if they get big then I'll compensate for the changes with other events.

Right, that one's on me, you did address it.

The issue is, that with ASB we mean not (necessarily) the dutch Victory but rather that Spain would declare this war under such a pretext and with such a goal.
That aside, we have very serious doubts about a dutch republic being allowed to rise a few years after Napoleon was defeated. This would most definitely ring all alarms with the reactionary power.
Them expanding to the cost of an old monarchy wouldn't help prevent interventions.

On the Moroccan war, what you say is not quite what is written in your app:
With the rise of Batavian nationalism after beating a former world power, the Dutch declared war on the Sultanate of Morocco after a trade dispute in 1842. The Invasion of Tangiers soon saw an increase in traction. Local liberties were low, and Dutch introduction of economic opportunities and progressive culture coincided with a pretender movement in Morocco, so much so that one of the Moroccan princes supported the some of the Dutch reforms. He raised an Army of revolutionaries to liberate Morocco and the Dutch immediately pledged support in exchange for a protector contract which the Prince eventually accepted.

Regardless of what is the background to the invasion, as long as you keep that here I have very significant doubts about the result being a dutch protectorate. Less about the ability of them to do so, but more about the interest.
Before the scramble interest in the region was rather limited, south of the Sahara (except for SA) there more or less only being trade posts and north of the Sahara conquest only being undertaken by Mediterranean nations.

There's also this:
After the war, in 1838, former Army General Johann Tunison formed the Dutch Army Rangers, an elite and highly maneuverable unit that is able to fight in global terrains.

Which I have doubts about.


Liecthenbourg wrote:
Elepis wrote:-snip-

Unless Jon or Calt say otherwise, I believe this is accepted.

Seems reasonable. I have no idea with regards to the size of the navy, whether it makes sense or not, as I have failed to find something on it, so I guess a green light from me as well.

Liecthenbourg wrote:
Lunas Legion wrote:
App should be completely finished now.

Acceptamundo, I believe.

TBH I'm unsure of that Kitchener doctrine. I guess the German navy is smaller (meaning that maybe the french are the strongest European power), but I'm still unsure if that's a reasonable target.
OTL the British aimed at having as much as the next to powers together, something which by WW1 they didn't quite manage to, if I am not mistaken.

Otherwise I see no issues.
Returned Nationstater -- You can leave Nationstates but Nationstates won't leave you.
Call me Jon, John, or Johnny, Jonathan or Jonnyboy, tJS and Jonathanian, with "states" or without.
This nation doesn't really represent my views and sarcasm is awesome.

User avatar
Lunas Legion
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30809
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Lunas Legion » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:24 pm

Kitchener Doctrine is UK having to equal US-Brazil-France-Germany-Japan in dreads + pre-dreads + battlecruisers, including in service and under construction. Germany's there as largest African naval power, even though they're European. But since they own African clay and France is largest in Europe (IIRC), Germany's up there.

I'm not sure if we actually do, but Kitchener can dream, right?

Right?

And if he doesn't, Fisher has some ideas Kitchener is more than willing to try out.
Last edited by William Slim Wed Dec 14 1970 10:35 pm, edited 35 times in total.

Confirmed member of Kyloominati, Destroyers of Worlds Membership can be applied for here

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The Jonathanian States
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13692
Founded: Nov 29, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Jonathanian States » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:29 pm

Lunas Legion wrote:Kitchener Doctrine is UK having to equal US-Brazil-France-Germany-Japan in dreads + pre-dreads + battlecruisers, including in service and under construction. Germany's there as largest African naval power, even though they're European. But since they own African clay and France is largest in Europe (IIRC), Germany's up there.

I'm not sure if we actually do, but Kitchener can dream, right?

Right?

And if he doesn't, Fisher has some ideas Kitchener is more than willing to try out.

Well, yes, dreaming can be done, but I couldn't be assed to check up all relevant naval numbers and did not want to end up with Britain actually having more than all aforementioned powers.
Anyway, as long as, at least at this point and the close future, we are talking about a doctrine that has not been achieved, I have no objections.
Returned Nationstater -- You can leave Nationstates but Nationstates won't leave you.
Call me Jon, John, or Johnny, Jonathan or Jonnyboy, tJS and Jonathanian, with "states" or without.
This nation doesn't really represent my views and sarcasm is awesome.

User avatar
Empire of Gibraltar
Diplomat
 
Posts: 788
Founded: Jul 24, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Empire of Gibraltar » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:35 pm

Reservation:
Location:
Iran, Uzbekistan, Turkistan, and Afghanistan
Nation Name:
Tehranian Sultanate/Persian Empire
635 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes. [/code]
"Everyone is a genius, but if you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree, it will live it's entire life thinking it's stupid." -Albert Einstein
Economic Left/Right: -0.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.82
_[' ]_
(-_Q) If you support Capitalism put this in your Signature

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The Jonathanian States
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13692
Founded: Nov 29, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Jonathanian States » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:37 pm

Empire of Gibraltar wrote:Reservation:
Location:
Iran, Uzbekistan, Turkistan, and Afghanistan
Nation Name:
Tehranian Sultanate/Persian Empire
635 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes. [/code]

Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan are part of the reserved Russian Empire.
And with regards to having Afghanistan in your empire... Good luck, you'll need it.
Returned Nationstater -- You can leave Nationstates but Nationstates won't leave you.
Call me Jon, John, or Johnny, Jonathan or Jonnyboy, tJS and Jonathanian, with "states" or without.
This nation doesn't really represent my views and sarcasm is awesome.

User avatar
Lunas Legion
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30809
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Lunas Legion » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:37 pm

The Jonathanian States wrote:
Lunas Legion wrote:Kitchener Doctrine is UK having to equal US-Brazil-France-Germany-Japan in dreads + pre-dreads + battlecruisers, including in service and under construction. Germany's there as largest African naval power, even though they're European. But since they own African clay and France is largest in Europe (IIRC), Germany's up there.

I'm not sure if we actually do, but Kitchener can dream, right?

Right?

And if he doesn't, Fisher has some ideas Kitchener is more than willing to try out.

Well, yes, dreaming can be done, but I couldn't be assed to check up all relevant naval numbers and did not want to end up with Britain actually having more than all aforementioned powers.
Anyway, as long as, at least at this point and the close future, we are talking about a doctrine that has not been achieved, I have no objections.


I was using IRL numbers, and the Kitchener Doctrine was a way to justify using said numbers given the lack of an arms race in Europe. Chances are the Doctrine will never be met, with Fisher constantly interfering and telling Kitchener to 'build me more battlecruisers' and the Maus in ship form and Churchill telling him to scram with Haig bemoaning the Army's lack of attention.
Last edited by William Slim Wed Dec 14 1970 10:35 pm, edited 35 times in total.

Confirmed member of Kyloominati, Destroyers of Worlds Membership can be applied for here

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Empire of Gibraltar
Diplomat
 
Posts: 788
Founded: Jul 24, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Empire of Gibraltar » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:40 pm

The Jonathanian States wrote:
Empire of Gibraltar wrote:Reservation:
Location:
Iran, Uzbekistan, Turkistan, and Afghanistan
Nation Name:
Tehranian Sultanate/Persian Empire
635 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes. [/code]

Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan are part of the reserved Russian Empire.
And with regards to having Afghanistan in your empire... Good luck, you'll need it.

Oh, I thought it was just Russia from what I saw, never mind my reservation, I'll find something else.
"Everyone is a genius, but if you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree, it will live it's entire life thinking it's stupid." -Albert Einstein
Economic Left/Right: -0.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.82
_[' ]_
(-_Q) If you support Capitalism put this in your Signature

User avatar
The Jonathanian States
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13692
Founded: Nov 29, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Jonathanian States » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:43 pm

Lunas Legion wrote:
The Jonathanian States wrote:Well, yes, dreaming can be done, but I couldn't be assed to check up all relevant naval numbers and did not want to end up with Britain actually having more than all aforementioned powers.
Anyway, as long as, at least at this point and the close future, we are talking about a doctrine that has not been achieved, I have no objections.


I was using IRL numbers, and the Kitchener Doctrine was a way to justify using said numbers given the lack of an arms race in Europe. Chances are the Doctrine will never be met, with Fisher constantly interfering and telling Kitchener to 'build me more battlecruisers' and the Maus in ship form and Churchill telling him to scram with Haig bemoaning the Army's lack of attention.

Ah, I see. Completely fine then, IMO.
Returned Nationstater -- You can leave Nationstates but Nationstates won't leave you.
Call me Jon, John, or Johnny, Jonathan or Jonnyboy, tJS and Jonathanian, with "states" or without.
This nation doesn't really represent my views and sarcasm is awesome.

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Liecthenbourg
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12971
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liecthenbourg » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:44 pm

The Jonathanian States wrote:
Lunas Legion wrote:
I was using IRL numbers, and the Kitchener Doctrine was a way to justify using said numbers given the lack of an arms race in Europe. Chances are the Doctrine will never be met, with Fisher constantly interfering and telling Kitchener to 'build me more battlecruisers' and the Maus in ship form and Churchill telling him to scram with Haig bemoaning the Army's lack of attention.

Ah, I see. Completely fine then, IMO.

Aye, agreed.
Impeach the Mayor of Lego City Legalise Falling into the River The Rescue Helicopter Needs to be Built! HEY!
Grand-Master of the Kyluminati


The Region of Kylaris
I'm just a simple Kylarite, trying to make my way on NS.

The Gaullican Republic,
I thank God for Three Things:
Kylaris, the death of Esquarium, and Prem <3

The Transtsabaran Federation and The Chistovodian Workers' State

To understand European history watch these: Cultural erosion, German and Italian history, a brief history of Germany.

User avatar
Alouite
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12476
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Alouite » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:38 pm

The Jonathanian States wrote:
Alouite wrote:
No I address it read my quote again, I'll bold and underline the area addressing the war with Spain here:



Anyhow, I'm gonna make some changes, so don't think I'm gonna be too stubborn about this, I am willing to make some concessions, but if they get big then I'll compensate for the changes with other events.

Right, that one's on me, you did address it.

The issue is, that with ASB we mean not (necessarily) the dutch Victory but rather that Spain would declare this war under such a pretext and with such a goal.
That aside, we have very serious doubts about a dutch republic being allowed to rise a few years after Napoleon was defeated. This would most definitely ring all alarms with the reactionary power.
Them expanding to the cost of an old monarchy wouldn't help prevent interventions.

On the Moroccan war, what you say is not quite what is written in your app:
With the rise of Batavian nationalism after beating a former world power, the Dutch declared war on the Sultanate of Morocco after a trade dispute in 1842. The Invasion of Tangiers soon saw an increase in traction. Local liberties were low, and Dutch introduction of economic opportunities and progressive culture coincided with a pretender movement in Morocco, so much so that one of the Moroccan princes supported the some of the Dutch reforms. He raised an Army of revolutionaries to liberate Morocco and the Dutch immediately pledged support in exchange for a protector contract which the Prince eventually accepted.

Regardless of what is the background to the invasion, as long as you keep that here I have very significant doubts about the result being a dutch protectorate. Less about the ability of them to do so, but more about the interest.
Before the scramble interest in the region was rather limited, south of the Sahara (except for SA) there more or less only being trade posts and north of the Sahara conquest only being undertaken by Mediterranean nations.

There's also this:
After the war, in 1838, former Army General Johann Tunison formed the Dutch Army Rangers, an elite and highly maneuverable unit that is able to fight in global terrains.

Which I have doubts about.


Perhaps we can enumerate our discussion points. And lets get something straight, this isn't about who this is on, it's not on you if you miss something or on me if I wrote something stupid while I was tired so long as we are willing to accept our accidents.
1)Let's start with the Spanish invading, you see, their declaration of war WAS an act of reactionary response to their republic arising, but also an attempt to restore Spanish prestige by perhaps re-installing the Orange family and putting them in debt to the Spaniards. I can add that to the app if needed as it would create more causation, but I point towards something to the effect of that being the reason. Them defeating them raised dutch prestige and made them seem like a new global power. Due to this and them not perusing absolute conquest of Spainish Colonial territories, they also didn't seem to be an imminent threat to the rest of Europe, and so they were likely seen in a negative light, but not as a group to form a coalition against.
2)As for them wanting Morocco, perhaps it was a desire to get into the Mediterranean market rather than colonialism. After all, that was one of the motivations in the British taking Gibraltar. If not I can bump the year further down.
3)As for the Dutch Army Rangers, they are similar to the British Queens Rangers and are obviously not perfect in all terrains, I wrote that while tired. Their aim is to be able to fight in global terrain while they are still highly maneuverable being chasseurs a cheval a unit directly taken from Napoleonic tactics. Later on it will evolve into a more modern unit.
National Liberalism, National School Economics, National Dividend, Constitutional Originalism, Protection of US Domestic Trade, The Chinese Gov't in Exile in Taipei, and Ending the War on Nouns
Hyman Minsky
Totalitarianism, the Destruction of the Environment, Racism, and, most of all, people who end statements in questions?
The Patriot Act, The Illegitimate Communist Authorities in China, Economic Libertarianism, Absolutism and Communism

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Jade Confederacy
Minister
 
Posts: 2616
Founded: Aug 21, 2009
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Jade Confederacy » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:52 pm

So we just need Russia for the ic?

User avatar
Lunas Legion
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30809
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Lunas Legion » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:08 pm

Jade Confederacy wrote:So we just need Russia for the ic?


Yup. Someone TG Colombia, perhaps?
Last edited by William Slim Wed Dec 14 1970 10:35 pm, edited 35 times in total.

Confirmed member of Kyloominati, Destroyers of Worlds Membership can be applied for here

User avatar
Jade Confederacy
Minister
 
Posts: 2616
Founded: Aug 21, 2009
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Jade Confederacy » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:22 pm

Lunas Legion wrote:Yup. Someone TG Colombia, perhaps?

Or someone can switch, his reservation is already two days old and pass the 48hr deadline.

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Fridur
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 379
Founded: Aug 25, 2015
Ex-Nation

App

Postby Fridur » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:27 pm

Generic Info
Nation Name: Kingdom of Italy
Symbols: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Italy
Homeland Population: 26 Million
Imperial Population: 3 Million
Location/Claims: All of this that isn't taken https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_o ... l_Empire_&#40;orthographic_projection).svg
Capital City: Rome

Government Info
Government Type: Constitutional Monarchy.
Brief Explanation of Government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_monarchy
Ideology: Libertarianism.
Leader/s: Victor Emmanuel III, Umberto II.

Population Info
Brief Description of your people:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italians
Religion:Catholic
Ethnicity: Italian
Main/Accepted Culture(s): Italian/European
Other Cultures: African

Military Info
Army: Army, Artillery Corp. 3 Million. Most funding.
Navy: Navy, Colonization Corps. 2 Million. Bad funding

Other Info
Brief Description of your Economy: Same as the Historical equivalent.
Goals: Expand colonies.
History: Same as RL History
RP Sample: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=353886
429 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes.

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Blayk
Envoy
 
Posts: 282
Founded: Jun 11, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Blayk » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:09 pm

Due to Finland and Estonia being Territories in the Russian Empire, I'd like to change my reservation.

Reservation:
Location: Switzerland as of 1914.
Nation Name: Federal Republic of Switzerland.
635 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes.
Generation 31 (The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.)


This Nation does not use NationStates Statisics

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Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25687
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:30 pm

If no Russia shows up, I'll take it.
agreed honey. send bees

User avatar
Jade Confederacy
Minister
 
Posts: 2616
Founded: Aug 21, 2009
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Jade Confederacy » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:03 pm

Senkaku wrote:If no Russia shows up, I'll take it.

Toss in app and go for it, his reservation is technically over

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The Jonathanian States
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13692
Founded: Nov 29, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Jonathanian States » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:06 pm

Fridur wrote:
Generic Info
Nation Name: Kingdom of Italy
Symbols: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Italy

FYI, there is a different Italian app in the works.
Alouite wrote:
The Jonathanian States wrote:Right, that one's on me, you did address it.

The issue is, that with ASB we mean not (necessarily) the dutch Victory but rather that Spain would declare this war under such a pretext and with such a goal.
That aside, we have very serious doubts about a dutch republic being allowed to rise a few years after Napoleon was defeated. This would most definitely ring all alarms with the reactionary power.
Them expanding to the cost of an old monarchy wouldn't help prevent interventions.

On the Moroccan war, what you say is not quite what is written in your app:

Regardless of what is the background to the invasion, as long as you keep that here I have very significant doubts about the result being a dutch protectorate. Less about the ability of them to do so, but more about the interest.
Before the scramble interest in the region was rather limited, south of the Sahara (except for SA) there more or less only being trade posts and north of the Sahara conquest only being undertaken by Mediterranean nations.

There's also this:

Which I have doubts about.


Perhaps we can enumerate our discussion points. And lets get something straight, this isn't about who this is on, it's not on you if you miss something or on me if I wrote something stupid while I was tired so long as we are willing to accept our accidents.
1)Let's start with the Spanish invading, you see, their declaration of war WAS an act of reactionary response to their republic arising, but also an attempt to restore Spanish prestige by perhaps re-installing the Orange family and putting them in debt to the Spaniards. I can add that to the app if needed as it would create more causation, but I point towards something to the effect of that being the reason. Them defeating them raised dutch prestige and made them seem like a new global power. Due to this and them not perusing absolute conquest of Spainish Colonial territories, they also didn't seem to be an imminent threat to the rest of Europe, and so they were likely seen in a negative light, but not as a group to form a coalition against.
2)As for them wanting Morocco, perhaps it was a desire to get into the Mediterranean market rather than colonialism. After all, that was one of the motivations in the British taking Gibraltar. If not I can bump the year further down.
3)As for the Dutch Army Rangers, they are similar to the British Queens Rangers and are obviously not perfect in all terrains, I wrote that while tired. Their aim is to be able to fight in global terrain while they are still highly maneuverable being chasseurs a cheval a unit directly taken from Napoleonic tactics. Later on it will evolve into a more modern unit.

1) "Let's start with the Spanish invading, you see, their declaration of war WAS an act of reactionary response to their republic arising, but also an attempt to restore Spanish prestige by perhaps re-installing the Orange family and putting them in debt to the Spaniards. " This most definitely was not clear from what you wrote there.
" In the year 1834, the Spanish declared war on the Netherlands claiming a right to the lands with the restoration of the Bourbon Dynasty and to destroy the last bastion of Revolutionary Republicanism in Europe. "
Yes, it is mentioned, but only in addition claiming a right to those lands. 253 years after the Dutch Republic formed....
Anyway, the primary reactionary response would most definitely not be from Spain, if Spain would even be de-facto be part of it at all. No, it's the Coalition Countries that are expected to gang up in some form and nip this in the bud before they get an early 1848.
Anyway.... the dutch defeating them would raise dutch prestige, sure. And make them seem like a global power.... merh, barely. In 1833 most of the Spanish Americas was independent, leaving them with a handful of Islands, shambles of an Empire. Spain hardly was a Great Power at that point, so defeating them shouldn't quite make the dutch one.
"them not perusing absolute conquest of Spainish Colonial territories," You mean like how Napoleon annexed all colonies of countries he conquered?
" they also didn't seem to be an imminent threat to the rest of Europe, and so they were likely seen in a negative light, but not as a group to form a coalition against."
Let's imagine I'm a poor lad from Cologne, over in Prussia. It isn't that far from the border, I'd have to hear of the Batavian Revolution and its success, sooner or later. And I'd think to myself, hey, the dutch kicked out their stupid greedy monarchs, why should I too? And then I'll rouse up my friends and family, and we all will make Cologne rise up, spreading the revolution.
Or at least that's the fear I'd expect the European Monarchs to have. There's a reason that the revolution was seen as a threat, there's a reason Russia intervened in Austrian Hungary in 1848, there's a reason Krakow - the stewing-pot of Polish Nationalism - had to be crushed. By your sheer existence, the survival of a revolution against a "god-given" monarch, you are a de-stabilizing force.
2)"that was one of the motivations in the British taking Gibraltar." To be honest, I had yet to hear of that. The closest to that I found is this:
A month after its capture Secretary of State Sir Charles Hedges described it as 'of great use to us [the English] for securing our trade and interrupting the enemy’s'.[31] With the English navy established on the Straits the piratical Moors of the Barbary Coast became reluctant to attack English merchant shipping, and allied themselves with Queen Anne.

It's use for interrupting enemy trade is the bottle-neck, and for securing it is a port proximate to the pirate-infested North African coast.
I don't quite see either as appropriate for the dutch.... there is absolutely no reason to annex or protectorate the whole of Morocco if all you need is a port at the straight of Gibraltar, and east of Morocco more or less the whole coast was ruled by a Greater power (Algeria specifically being ruled by France), which to the best of my knowledge meant that the Barbary Piracy ended..
So if you want all of Morocco, yes, do move the date up by quite some. And even then you might have to consider its worth compared to costs of acquisition and maintenance.
3)"similar to the British Queens Rangers" I'll start with the fact that the Queen's Rangers were a very temporary unit. They existed as Robert's Rangers from 1755 to 1763 at up to 1,400 men.
The Queen's Rangers proper were formed in the AWI and non-continuously remained until getting disbanded the second time in 1802.
"are obviously not perfect in all terrains"
Anyway, those rangers, were far from being that. They were good in their terrain. American Forests and similar terrain. They had no experience in the arctic, in the desert or jungles, and on an open field I'd assume they'd get torn to shreds, at least because there they'd most likely be out-gunned and -numbered.
"Their aim is to be able to fight in global terrain" I do not consider that a viable aim prior to the common availability of air-travel/transport, at least for military purposes.
" while they are still highly maneuverable being chasseurs a cheval" Light Cavalry? That's interesting.... Of course, Cavalry units aren't quite the most fitting for warfare in forests or jungles, so unless you mean a different terrain they could at most serve as a sort of special Dragoon regiment, in the early sense of the term.
If you do mean a different terrain I doubt to see their practical use to you. Before your conquest of Morocco desert warfare should not quite be something Batavia is used to or actively trains/prepares for. Neither do you have arctic or Tundra-like areas...
"a unit directly taken from Napoleonic tactics" Light Cavalry, yes. But:
" the Dutch Army Rangers, an elite and highly maneuverable unit that is able to fight in global terrains" that, especially the usage of Elite, is to the best of my knowledge, not quite how one would classify the Chasseurs a cheval.
... they were frequently used as advance scouting units providing valuable information on enemy movements. ... At the beginning of the Franco-Prussian War of 1870, the French Army had twelve regiments of Chasseurs à cheval, grouped with eight hussar regiments to form the light branch of the cavalry and tasked with primarily reconnaissance duties.[4] This intended role continued through World War I and the Chasseurs à cheval remained entirely horse mounted until the 1er RCh was motorised in June 1940.[5] Disbanded after the Battle of France, these units were reconstituted in 1944–45 as light armor.

"Later on it will evolve into a more modern unit." So it does not currently have the aim of being capable of operating in all global terrains?
And going backwards in time, as what kind of unit was founded?
Jade Confederacy wrote:
Senkaku wrote:If no Russia shows up, I'll take it.

Toss in app and go for it, his reservation is technically over

I don't think Calt ever mentioned a time-limit on apps. I've seen other people mention/propose it, but I've seen no agreement on the thread and neither have I received any such input from him via other channels.
Returned Nationstater -- You can leave Nationstates but Nationstates won't leave you.
Call me Jon, John, or Johnny, Jonathan or Jonnyboy, tJS and Jonathanian, with "states" or without.
This nation doesn't really represent my views and sarcasm is awesome.

User avatar
Jade Confederacy
Minister
 
Posts: 2616
Founded: Aug 21, 2009
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Jade Confederacy » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:13 pm

The IC needs to start soon and the Russian player hasn't even participated in the OOC since the first day. We need a Russia and someone is willing to be Russia so i see no conflict here.

User avatar
Jaslandia
Minister
 
Posts: 2652
Founded: Aug 11, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jaslandia » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:31 pm

Call me Jaslandia or Jas, either one works
This nation (mostly) represents my political views.
Factbook
Puppets: Partrica, New Jaslandia, Kasbahan
Pro: Regulated Capitalism, Two-state solution, nice people, Nerdfighteria, democracy, science, public education, rationalism, reason, logic, politeness, LGBT rights, feminism, UN, Democratic Party

Anti: Religious extremism/fundamentalism, terrorism, dictatorship, oppression, hatred, bigotry, racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, conspiracy theories, Stalinism, theocracy, social conservatism, corruption, Nazism, Vladimir Putin, Republican Party

In-between: Religion, socialism, Barack Obama

RP Population: 675,000,000

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