The Era of the Enlightened(OOC/Sign UPs/AH-RP)

[Reatra]

In the next update, I'll do the HRE(to what extent I can) and Muslim expansion into Eastern Europe, and the Incan thing... Plus the Dutch!

And a few minor border changes for NPCs...

Oh and since we have way more then enough players... NPCs! Yas!

North America needs NPCs


do a California native state based around the Chumash and their awesome navy.

[Senkaku]

Stranger things have happened!


But seriously, if it weren't for An Lushan, Tang could've gone very, very far, probably well into the reign of the Song, even. I am going to have rebellions and perhaps an interregnum of some type around the time of the Mongol invasions, but those I can work with.

I'd be fine with Tang falling by the Mongols and a post-Mongol dynasty surviving to 1700, but the Tang? Really? Every single Chinese dynasty has fallen after a couple hundred years due to corruption in the government and the Mongols (or Europeans in the Qing's case).

I'd be fine with

Sorry, I think I've misplaced the fucks I could've given about what you would consider acceptable.

As for every Chinese dynasty falling due to corruption, let's look at it.

Qin- Qin Shi Huang was a batshit crazy dictator who ruled by fear and fear alone. He was the only man who could have held Qin together, so it's no surprise that the horrific crimes he committed came back to haunt his son. It's less corruption and more that he was insane and ruthless and cruel. Qin's fall can really be laid at his feet and his feet alone.
Han- The fall of Han was basically set in motion by one man, Wang Mang. Once he fucked everything up, Han was basically terminal. Here's another dynasty laid low by a single guy.
Tang- The An Lushan Rebellion killed as much as two thirds of the Tang population and destroyed their core provinces. Some scholars think it may have ended up killing of one out of six people living on the entire planet at the time. Once again, a dynasty destroyed because one guy fucked shit up.
Song- MONGOL MONGOL MONGOL MONGOL *armies stupidly chained to bureaucracy and thus ineffective* MONGOL MONGOL MONGOL *Kaifeng goes up in flames* MONGOL MONGOL MONGOL
Yuan- Mongols were idiots who had no idea how to run China.
Ming- Ming got stuck with massive inflation from Spanish silver, rising Manchus and the Oirat/Dzungars, and Hideoyshi's Japan. They also had some pretty incompetent emperors (getting bloody well captured by the Oirat army, ending treasure fleet voyages just to get in their kicks against the eunuchs, etc.). And they also had a succession crisis early on that completely disrupted the plan that the Hongwu Emperor had laid out.
Qing- Yurop = bitch, Japan = xtra bitch, +steppe barbars cannot into rule China (just like Yuan)

---

Imma go ahead and say Tang could've done just fuckin' fine if the Rebellion hadn't happened. Maybe Genghis could've caused an interregnum, but then again, with a powerful China to the south that dominated stuff to the west as well (which Song certainly did not), and probably had considerable influence on the northern steppe itself, it's quite possible Temujin never would've risen. Maybe someone would've risen to take his place because rainfall patterns = opportunity, and maybe they could've caused the Tang issues in the west, but then again, maybe not.

[Reatra]

I'd be fine with Tang falling by the Mongols and a post-Mongol dynasty surviving to 1700, but the Tang? Really? Every single Chinese dynasty has fallen after a couple hundred years due to corruption in the government and the Mongols (or Europeans in the Qing's case).

I'd be fine with

Sorry, I think I've misplaced the fucks I could've given about what you would consider acceptable.

As for every Chinese dynasty falling due to corruption, let's look at it.

Qin- Qin Shi Huang was a batshit crazy dictator who ruled by fear and fear alone. He was the only man who could have held Qin together, so it's no surprise that the horrific crimes he committed came back to haunt his son. It's less corruption and more that he was insane and ruthless and cruel. Qin's fall can really be laid at his feet and his feet alone.
Han- The fall of Han was basically set in motion by one man, Wang Mang. Once he fucked everything up, Han was basically terminal. Here's another dynasty laid low by a single guy.
Tang- The An Lushan Rebellion killed as much as two thirds of the Tang population and destroyed their core provinces. Some scholars think it may have ended up killing of one out of six people living on the entire planet at the time. Once again, a dynasty destroyed because one guy fucked shit up.
Song- MONGOL MONGOL MONGOL MONGOL *armies stupidly chained to bureaucracy and thus ineffective* MONGOL MONGOL MONGOL *Kaifeng goes up in flames* MONGOL MONGOL MONGOL
Yuan- Mongols were idiots who had no idea how to run China.
Ming- Ming got stuck with massive inflation from Spanish silver, rising Manchus and the Oirat/Dzungars, and Hideoyshi's Japan. They also had some pretty incompetent emperors (getting bloody well captured by the Oirat army, ending treasure fleet voyages just to get in their kicks against the eunuchs, etc.). And they also had a succession crisis early on that completely disrupted the plan that the Hongwu Emperor had laid out.
Qing- Yurop = bitch, Japan = xtra bitch, +steppe barbars cannot into rule China (just like Yuan)

---

Imma go ahead and say Tang could've done just fuckin' fine if the Rebellion hadn't happened. Maybe Genghis could've caused an interregnum, but then again, with a powerful China to the south that dominated stuff to the west as well (which Song certainly did not), and probably had considerable influence on the northern steppe itself, it's quite possible Temujin never would've risen. Maybe someone would've risen to take his place because rainfall patterns = opportunity, and maybe they could've caused the Tang issues in the west, but then again, maybe not.

You know what I mean by "I'd be fine with" -_-

And what makes you think that without the rebellion Tang would last forever and ever and ever?

They aren't magical, there will always be one guy fucking shit up, if not to that extent, and every single dynasty has grown... I don't want to use the word decadent, but inefficient after a few centuries. Unless there was a coup (and wouldn't that make a new dynasty?) I don't see that being avoided.

[Senkaku]

You know what I mean by "I'd be fine with" -_-

And what makes you think that without the rebellion Tang would last forever and ever and ever?

They aren't magical, there will always be one guy fucking shit up, if not to that extent, and every single dynasty has grown... I don't want to use the word decadent, but inefficient after a few centuries. Unless there was a coup (and wouldn't that make a new dynasty?) I don't see that being avoided.

The Tang didn't seem to be growing inefficient at all- they were pressuring Tibet more and more, expanding their reach in Central and North Asia, and becoming wealthier and more powerful. The examination systems and their cosmopolitan tendencies gave them a strong army and a dedicated government, and I'm thinking that the thwarting of the rebellion by Yang Guifei's friends and agents would have led the Xuanzong Emperor to establish greater oversight of military governors in the form of some sort of secret police apparatus or political department. They were also not really in danger of being labeled as having lost the Mandate of Heaven, until the rebellion came, and honestly I don't think even a protracted and bloody war with the Mongols could do nearly as much damage as An Lushan.

Basically, my view is, if the Tang in the 700s were able to stagger on for several hundred years after their empire was shattered and two-thirds of its citizens killed in one of the most devastating wars in all of human history, then that is firstly a sign of extraordinary resilience and strength, and secondly a sign that if they were stronger, as they certainly would be in the 1200s when the Mongols rose, that they could endure even greater stress.

In short, I think you underestimate the resilience of both the Tang and dynasties in general. If they're doing good, remaining powerful, and governing well and making the land prosperous, then it becomes rather difficult to lose the Mandate of Heaven.

[Kisinger]

Mapus Updatus

Added
Muslim Horde
Crimea
Moldavia
Hungary
Poland
HRE
Muscovy
Novgorod(?)
Expanded Colonies (Oh no! People got shitty land )
Aztec State
Gave Dutch South Africa to give them more plausibility to be in the East Indies....

[New Granadeseret]

WIP... I tend to write long, detailed histories, and need sleep

Generic Info
Nation Name: The Grand Emirate of Aquitània
Symbols: (ex. Flag, Coat of Arms, National Anthem, personifications, etc.)
Homeland Population: 19 million (Population of France was 27 million IRL ... and I control at least 2/3s)
Imperial Population: 20.23 Million (Based on OP-discussed Imperial population: of which 730,000 are in Màayania, 470,000 are on Sibonia/ Cuba, and 33,000 live in the Nubia River Colony/Amazonia
Location/Claims: http://i.imgur.com/kJd1Yhz.png, and claims entire Amazonian River Basin by right of Discovery... though practical control of it would take next to forever
Capital City: Tolosa

Government Info
Government Type: Administrative Monarchy/Somewhat Enlightened despotism.
Brief Explanation of Government: As the Grand Emir is supposedly elevated by the grace of Allah, in theory he retains absolute power. However, with the Emirate the size it is he can't be expected to run every little thing. Because of this, much of the nation's real political power rests in the hands of the military and civil bureaucracy, who's directors have a great deal of wiggle room and plausible deniability in exercising the broaders orders of the court in Tolosa. In theory, this autonomy is limited by the fact a disobedient leader can be sacked at whatever time the Emir wishes... though when they're in the New World or have proven themselves indispensable for their leadership skills or efficiency this is much easier said then done. As the military and civil bureaucracy are technically very open organizations, this does lead to something resembling meritocracy... though one could argue that good birth and connections is itself a merit when one has to wheel and deal with the upper crust of Occitan society.
Ideology: National Conservatism
Leader/s: His Most Pious Majesty, Grand Emir Gaston IV "The Shrewd" of Aquitània, Guardian of the Faithful on the Northern Marches, B'aahajaw of Màayania and Sibonia, and Custodian of all the Waters in the Nubia River.

Population Info
Brief Description of your people: The Occitanians/Oc/Aquitàn and an ethnically Germanic-Celtic people with strong Andalusian paternal influences, who are native to the south-western regions of Europe. They have a lighter, if still distinctly Mediterranean complexion, and are most physically notable for their generally low amount of body hair. Culturally, Aquitàn are notable for their contributions to the art of theater, as well as a strong scientific stint and their wide variety of delicious cheeses. Their culture celebrates wit and wisdom (not exactly the same as knowledge... more the ability to adapt quickly) as the greatest of virtues, and while pious in the rules of Islam don't nurse any particular dislike or distain of other faiths; though Catholicism is looked upon with slightly more suspicion thanks to it's secretive, wide-spanning and strict hierarchy.

Religion: Sunni Islam is the main religion of the region, being the confession of 83% of people, as well as being the State religion. Cathars are the largest religious minority, with 6% of the population following their faith and, while odd, are still tolerated as "People of the Book". Jews make up 4% of the population, assorted other Christian sects another 4% (Mostly Protestants... due to reasons laid down in the history), 2% follow Tzotzil (The Mayan Cult), with the remainder a hodgepodge of assorted Old Believers and Islamic Heretics.
Ethnicity: Occitan/Aquitàn is the main ethnicity on the mainland. In Màayania, Aquitàn-Màaya crossbreeds known as Chocol and to a lesser extent the surviving Màaya make up the majority of the population, and on Sibonia (Cuba), which became attractive to immigrants much faster, the Cassol Aquitàn-Taíno hybrids are a slight minority to the influx of Aquitàn families. On the mainland, there are also statically significant minorities of Andalusians, Franks, Sephardi, Amerindian-crossbreeds, and Italians
Main/Accepted Cultures Aquitàn (Muslim Oc), make up the majority of powerful positions in mainland society: though officially the government sticks to the worlds of the Prophet "Truly, the Arab has no superiority over the Non-Arab, nor the Non-Arab over the Arab, nor the Black over the White nor the White over the Black, except in piety", and this is mostly a matter of their being so many of them and being more of them. So far as the government is concerned, having a loyal Confession (Sunni Islam, Cathar, or Judaism), is more important then who your parents where... though the government only really encourages reading and writing in Oc and Andalusian Arabic.
Other Cultures: While not really hated, the Màaya and Taíno who haven't "Ocified" culturally are generally looked upon as... the polite term would be "quaint". Italians and Franks are also looked on with suspicion, as possible agents of the Parisian King or Papacy. And if you're a Montol/Marajoar or, Allah forbid, a man-eater from deeper in the Amazonian Rainforest... may whatever spirits you worship have mercy on your soul, because the Oc will give you none.

Military Info
Army: The Grand Emirate has a proud if not prominent military tradition, dating back to it's foundation as a march vassal state for Al-Andalus to protect it from Frankish aggression, and further refined through experiences in colonial ranging and her spattering of wars with the Franks, Burgundiens, and Italians. They currently have 164,000 standing troops, of which 70,000 form permanent or semi-permanent garrisons for fortresses and strategic towns,16,000 serve in the professional forces of her overseas territories, and 78,000 serve as a movable forces. Like most modern European armies, her forces are primarily (80%) musket men w/ plug bayonets for charges and primitive counter-cavalry, with the pike quickly being phased out of the mainland. And additional 15% are cavalry: using lithe and noble breeds from Andalusian and African stock rather then strong European chargers, who act as screens, supply raiders, route-chasers, and a mobile reserve to stop the enemy from taking the iniative in battle and divert the attention of firearms. (You'd also be amazed with what men with sabers can do when they run into a bunch of musketeers). The generally don't use a great deal of field artillery, "Bombardiers" used to defend the fortresses or heavy guns brought up against enemy fortifications, as their field strategy focuses on mobility and dragging around a bunch of cannons is anathema to that. In generally, they're considered moderately skilled and organized... though they are notable for being fairly faster marchers. Additional troops can be mustered during times of war... though like any other conscripts who're handed a gun and given a crash course in fighting don't have nearly as much stomach for getting shot at.

The colonial troops are far more influenced by Màayan and other native styles of warfare, and have a flexible, small-unit system and prefer bows over the supply-heavy, inaccurate muskets that are more suited for the well-supported and large European armies. Though nowhere near as skilled as the natives themselves, they have picked up a few tricks (Such as war-yelping while spread out in cover to make it sound like there are more of them them their are), and the art of arrow vollies over walls. Most colonial men also receive militia training (something far less common in Europe, where brigadry is dying down and powder is too precious for extensive mass-drilling anyways), and when the town bell rings are prepared to take up bow, arrow, and knife to fight for their families.

Navy: First Rate(80 guns+|500-600 Crew) X 26, Second Rate(60-80 guns|400-500 Crew) X 42; Third and Fourth Rates (40-60 Guns|300-400 Crew) X 45; Sixth-Fifth Rates (20-40 Guns|100-300 Crew) X 50; Brigs(10-18 Guns I 50-150 Crew) X 60, Bomb Ketch (5 Mortars, 50-100 Crew) X 30, Armed Al-Mericamen (comparable to East Indiamen, 10 Guns I 100-200 Crew w/ large cargo hull) X 43

Other Info
Brief Description of your Economy: The Aquitàn economy is a fairly vigorous one: the bureaucracy having long ago thrown up it's arms and given up in trying to manage large chunks of it following the Krístuferian exchange and the introduction of the potato (w/ the resulting population boom and difficulty in accurately assessing and tweaking agricultural outputs). The economy is part-way through the process of urbanization, with the main cities of the homeland, with Tolosa, Carcassona, Poitiers, Bordèu, and to a lesser extent Tolon all hosting thriving communities of craftsmen. Though the quality is no longer as uniform as it was in the days of the pure artisan and guild monopolies, the Guilds have managed to remain relevant as a political force and economic engines by transforming into "craftsman's universities" of sorts, providing the industries with capable workers. Major craft outputs include glassworks (Particularly prevalent in Tolosa), silks and velvets (Poitiers and Tolon), iron tools (The Cathar community in Carcassona is particularly famous for their high-quality implements... though they don't craft weapons), and chocolate products (Bordèu contains the largest concentration of chocolate makers and chocolatiers in the world, having the best access to colonial supplies via port). Most of the population, however (85%) remains agricultural, with potatoes, lettuce, linen, fennel, and cattle products (Milk, cheese, beef), being the most grown crops alongside staple wheat.

The colonies are far more concerned with the production of cash crops and raw materials then the homeland, with Sibonian sugar and molasses alongside Màaya cacao being the most valued and abundantly produced. Most are agriculturally self-sufficient, with Cassava and it's products being the staple food crops for the climate. Vanilla is also a very important, if less prevalent crop: it's ability to be pollinated only by the specific breed of local bees making Màayania essentially the only place in the world outside the Aztec Empire it can be produced. Industry is almost always for day-to-day self-sufficiency or the processing of local goods (Tulum, the largest port in Màayania, is also a center of Vanilla processing).
Goals: -Develop a safe, secure, and stable state that will last the test of time
-Neutralize Franks
-Burn a bloody swath through the Amazonian natives

History:
732: Andalusian forces, under the commands of Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi, ravage through southern Gaul after slaughtering the armies of Duke Odo. Some parties men raid further to the north, however, and spot an unusually concentration of foreign troops marching in from the land of the Franks. Suspcious, they send messengers back to their commander. Abdul quickly ordered his scattered cavalry to mass so they could catch the still-marching Frankish infantry by surprise. Moving far more quickly with their mounts, the Muslim armies fell on the surprised Franks near the village of Descartes: lancers and swordsmen launching charge on the Frankish body from both side and setting chaos to the loose marching formation before they had any hope of forming their planned phalanx. 13,000 Franks and allied troops are found dead, including practical ruler of the Frankish realm, Charles Martel. A quick following battle just to the north, with Duke Odo and his remaining men captured further after the rout. With little remaining of his Duchy and no other armed force in Western Europe capable of matching the Uyymad armies, Odo would be set to Cordoba, where he was stripped of his ranks and lands: his territories north of the Pyrenees being rewarded to Abdul as his fief for the great victory he'd given the realm.

733: Work begins on the

RP Sample: (required)
429 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes.

[Kisinger]

Regarding the Naval Dispute...

Honestly...

It's Horseshit...

"Oh mine is bigger..."

"No mine is bigger and better..."

Both of you could argue for days on this on this matter but let's look at facts....

TK is on Britannia a Island... the Navy is their first defense. Burgundy is on the Continent and borders Muslims obviously they should be more inclined to defend a land border than a Sea border.... And so what if a majority of your income is trade? England is basically trading... Yeah it does produce natural resources but obviously not enough for itself...

[Senkaku]

Kisi pls


To Tang or not to Tang

[Conwy-Shire]

Mapus Updatus

Added
Muslim Horde
Crimea
Moldavia
Hungary
Poland
HRE
Muscovy
Novgorod(?)
Expanded Colonies (Oh no! People got shitty land )
Aztec State
Gave Dutch South Africa to give them more plausibility to be in the East Indies....

lmfao Crimea don't own Crimea, why not make them Kiev?

[Elepis]

Mapus Updatus

Added
Muslim Horde
Crimea
Moldavia
Hungary
Poland
HRE
Muscovy
Novgorod(?)
Expanded Colonies (Oh no! People got shitty land )
Aztec State
Gave Dutch South Africa to give them more plausibility to be in the East Indies....

My stan's! what happened to my stans?

[Kisinger]

Kisi pls


To Tang or not to Tang

I already said what was going to happen

Mapus Updatus

Added
Muslim Horde
Crimea
Moldavia
Hungary
Poland
HRE
Muscovy
Novgorod(?)
Expanded Colonies (Oh no! People got shitty land )
Aztec State
Gave Dutch South Africa to give them more plausibility to be in the East Indies....

lmfao Crimea don't own Crimea, why not make them Kiev?

because, Crimea is the only EUIV nation and that isn't Orthodox in the Ukraine area.

[Conwy-Shire]

because, Crimea is the only EUIV nation and that isn't Orthodox in the Ukraine area.

So you really want me to be the only Orthodox nation in Europe/World... interesting... it seems I have plans to make

[Jaslandia]

Mapus Updatus

Added
Muslim Horde
Crimea
Moldavia
Hungary
Poland
HRE
Muscovy
Novgorod(?)
Expanded Colonies (Oh no! People got shitty land )
Aztec State
Gave Dutch South Africa to give them more plausibility to be in the East Indies....

Thanks for Cape Town, but you forgot to give me Australia. You can just give me the Kimberly region of Western Australia. I'm the Dutch, BTW.

[Kisinger]

because, Crimea is the only EUIV nation and that isn't Orthodox in the Ukraine area.

So you really want me to be the only Orthodox nation in Europe/World... interesting... it seems I have plans to make

No you have Muscovy and Novogrod too...

[Conwy-Shire]

No you have Muscovy and Novogrod too...

I don't know how this would work out, but the massive increase in Muslim nations seeping into Europe would surely have changed the religious relationship between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, or would it be easier to say shit-all happened in that regard?

[Nasaira]

Is this still open?

[Conwy-Shire]

Is this still open?

always, I should hope

[The Greater Dutch Republic]

*sees Scotland ruled by Brits again*
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NOT AGAIN. NEVER AGAIN.

[Liecthenbourg]

Kisi pls


To Tang or not to Tang

That's pretty tangy.

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

Kisi pls


To Tang or not to Tang

I'm sure if you played dynastic jitsu and shuffled cadet houses and lower branches of the Tang in you could last for years.

[New Granadeseret]

No you have Muscovy and Novogrod too...

I don't know how this would work out, but the massive increase in Muslim nations seeping into Europe would surely have changed the religious relationship between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, or would it be easier to say shit-all happened in that regard?

The Great Schism was a long time coming, particularly with many of the problems stemming from the Bishop of Rome/Pope's insistence that his authority was higher and doctrine more "right" then the other Patriarchs. And I don't think Il Papa is going to be giving up his claims to supremacy any time soon. And it's not like the Catholics are in a position of relative strength and the Orthodox in a deep crisis as occurred the last time real reunification was discussed.

[Jade Confederacy]

Oh man it took a while of digging through the ooc to find what that blob between spain and burgundy was. I'll take Muscovy/Novgorod if someone takes the other

[Conwy-Shire]

Oh man it took a while of digging through the ooc to find what that blob between spain and burgundy was. I'll take Muscovy/Novgorod if someone takes the other

Go Muscovy and partition Novgorod between you and Sweden, the good old way

[New Granadeseret]

Oh man it took a while of digging through the ooc to find what that blob between spain and burgundy was. I'll take Muscovy/Novgorod if someone takes the other

We are not a blob. Our borders are pretty... right

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

*sees Scotland ruled by Brits again*
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NOT AGAIN. NEVER AGAIN.

>the Scots are Brits
>The Kingdom of Scotland still exists with its own parliament independent of Westminster
>Stuart Queen just died, her husband is about to, cadet branch of Stuart-Orange is about to take the throne aka Stuarts still on the throne