1850 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][CLOSED]

[Victores]

Well I just read the Roman Empire's App and it conflicts with mine, because the Turks never exist as they are conquered by the Timurids and the Timurids like in RL conquer Anatolia in the 1400s

[Victores]

Full Nation Name : Timurid Kingdom of Afghanistan
Majority/Official Culture : [[What your people identify themselves with… French, Chinese, Iroquois, Touareg, etc.]] Afghan,Persian
Territorial Core : Afghanistan and parts of Iran [[place where you have absolute control over]]
Territorial Claim : All Persia [[OPTIONAL]] [[region NOT your core where your nation’s ambition lies]]
Capital City :Herat, Herat Province [[Its IRL location and name]]
Population : 40 million

Government Type : Elected Constitutional Monarchy [[Monarchy, Republic, etc.]]
Government Ideology/Policies : Expansionist [[OPTIONAL]] [[Militant, Imperialist, Expansionist, etc.]]
Government Focus : The Governments short term goal is keeping everyone else from invading and conquering it be it India or Russia. Long term, the government wants to restore the Timurid Empire [[Tell me a little bit about what is your government’s focus… be it military, economy, culture, legitimacy, etc.]]
Head of State : Emperor Timur IV [[highest-ranking individual in the nation according to rule of law]]
Head of Government : Emperor Timur IV [[highest-ranking defacto ruler]]
Government Description : The Government of Afghanistan is based of of traditional Persian and Mongol systems of government. The nation is ruled by a federal system where different regions are ruled by elected nobles. Elections are performed in the traditional mongol way with a caucus rally. The local rulers who style themselves with various titles ranging from Grand Lord to Emir. There are a total of 21 regions in Afghanistan, and 9 in Persia(OOC these are not the regions on the map). A large collection of Nobles elected commoners and regional representatives make up a type of parliment. There are generally three types of people here, some are normal citizens that were chosen in a rally to represent particular groups, others are delegates sent by the local rulers who rarely come themselves, finally the most common group are the lesser nobles and other aristocrats. The government has a very elaborate and complex bureaucracy.

Majority/State Religion : Sunni Islam, but all religions accepted [[OPTIONAL]] [[It does not have to be IRL religion]]
Religious Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

Economic Ideologies: None of the Above [[Capitalism, Mercantilism, Socialism, Communism, etc.]]
Major Production : Nothing
Economic Description :The government works in aa similar way to Islamic banking. The government has a special branch of SOE and other government corporations that citizens give goods to in exchange for other goods and money. The government doesn’t need that much money and actually makes a profit. On a smaller scale, because most people get their stuff by taking with government groups, they don’t really need private businesses. The best comparison would be a socialist country where private enterprise is allowed.

Army Strength :Afghan guns can reload fasster than their European counterparts, Armored Rocket Elephants, a wooden shell carried by troops thats semi-bullet proof
Army Weakness : Everything else is terrible
Naval Strength :
Naval Weakness :
Further Military Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

National Goals : Take over Persia, as well as build a better world
National Issues : Some degree of Technological backwardness, general lack of natural resources [[what needs to be fixed in order for your nation to achieve its true potential]]
National Figures of Interest : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Are there any Mother Teresas or Moses that we need to know about?]]
National Ambition/Aspirations : Restore the Mongol Empire and take over Eurasia [[OPTIONAL]] [[Not really a set objective, but rather the big picture that your nation is drawing towards]]

History : My last history was too simple so here goes the longest story I can tell Note: This conflicts with Israel, and Taurica, Russias an Ex-Nation now

The history of Timurid Afghanistan started around the bays of the Achaemenid Empire, Afghanistan was violently conquered and subjugated by the Persians. The kingdom became a Persian satrapy. The afghans contributed a few hundred troops to the invasion of Greece. Afghanistan gradually became more and more sepratist, so when Alexander the Great invaded he was welcomed as a great liberator. However after the death of Alexander in 322 B.C.E. the Kingdom seceded from the kingdom of Selucus.
The independent Afghan kingdom became a rather weak empire by 310 B.C.E. They ruled Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. The Empire remained in this state until the rise of the Parthian Empire, they were defeated by the Afghans in multiple battle across the Northern Empire, slowly loosing ground, the Afghans were one of the last groups to be conquered by the Parthians in the East. This situation lasted until the age of the Roman Empire. During the Crisis of the Third Century the Afghans seceded again and would never become part of any empire until the 1200s. For most of the time until the early 1000.

During the early 1000s, its unclear why but a large Eastern population migrated to Afghanistan significantly changing the composition of the people. By the time of Genghis Khan, Afghanistan was ruled by a half Mongol king. When the Mongols invaded Afghanistan the kingdom united peacefully, as a reward for their co-operation the Mongol Khan gave them a degree of autonomy and they become ruled by the father of Timur.

So began the most important phase of the kingdom’s history. Timur became the ruler of Afghanistan and most of Central Asia, He would expand his empire to Western China, Persia, India, the Caucuses, defeat the Romans in Eastern Anatolia, conquer all of Arabia, as well as take over Egypt to Tunisia. He was preparing for a massive campaign in Ukraine when he died to an enemy sniper. The mighty Empire reached its zenith with its next king who would conquer Greece, sack Constantinople, and for three years Hungary. The next king saw the collapse in Europe and South India. He would invade Italy, capture Ravenna, and sack the Eternal City of Rome. Shortly after his army was routed in Greece and he was forced to pull back to Romania.

At his point the Roman Empire was restricted to part of Yugoslavia. The Peloponnesus and the Western edge of Turkey. The Roman Empire returned to Greece Central Anatoliain 1507 and eventually annexed almost of Anatolia. The Timurid Empire still controlled Thrace and their Russian lands. The Russian Empire under Ivan IV had just expanded to the Ukraine, and so began the Russo-Timurid Wars. Round one was an astounding Russian VICTORY. Round two went tho Timurid Empire which one an amazinG victory outside Kiev and pushed into Belarus. Round three went to the Timurids again and they held Kazan and sacked Moscow. This was followed by round four just two months later. This time the Russians won and pushed them back to Ukraine war five to nine failed to achieve anything meaningful. Then both sides agreed to a settlement where the Timurids held Crimea and South Ukraine and the Russians held everything north of that.
The Empire lasted like this until 1756. It was at this time that the Empire collapsed into the Crimean Khanate which controlled Ukraine not Crimea, the Golden Horde held Central Asia, the Ilkhanate Horde held Persia, Africa slowly forgot it was Mongol, Arabia was conquered, India became a war-zone, and Afghanistan became the Black Horde. The Black Horde transitions to the Timurid Kingdom of Afghanistan in 1772. This was when Timur III became emperor of Afghanistan and began industrializing it. Afghanistan remained in this state to this day.

[[Can be in paragraph or bulletpoint timeline.]]

Comparison Points – Political :2 [[How much national focus is gone into administrating the government, i.e. espionage, royal marriages, counter-intelligence, etc.]]
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious :1 [[How much national focus is gone into religious and or cultural aspects, i.e. asking for excommunication, call for crusade, soviet revolution in other nations, etc.]]
Comparison Points – Economy :2 [[How much national focus is gone into economic matters, i.e. embargo/blockade efficiency, lasting through war of attrition, simply feeding your people better, etc.]]
Comparison Points – Military :3 [[How much national focus is gone into military, i.e. discipline, morale, better tacticians/generals, etc.]]
Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX) : 8/10

Bonus: Flags

[Second Helghan Empire]

Army Strength :Afghan guns can reload fasster than their European counterparts, Armored Rocket Elephants, a wooden shell carried by troops thats semi-bullet proof

this ^^ is not okay your nation is neither a part of the orient or the west so therefore, your guns and entire nation is not as advanced as the west and east. You cannot have faster loading weapons because of that, and in fact I have repeaters so that is impossible.

Armored rocket elephants had better be a joke

The last one is a possibility but this is less for technology more for explaining things in a general sense. For example Say you wanted to have really well disciplined troops. Then you say well disciplined troops, then you explain why, like because they are drilled for hours every day or something.

You must say your weaknesses, at least a couple and explain them

As for you history, small amounts of conflicting history is okay, yours not only conflicts massive amounts with another nation but three other nations and therefore is not acceptable.

However I must give you credit. I wouldn't have even made an app for this RP as it seems full looking in. Anyway fix this and repost pls.

[Tracian Empire]

But the conflict is unacceptable. A large part of my alternate history is based on the fact that the Roman Empire managed to resist, and that Constantinople was never conquered by anyone. After his history, the Roman Empire was beaten even harder then the Byzantines in real life.

[Lenyo]

Eighteenth century India did have war rockets, so you can RP that, but they shouldn't be elephant-mounted.

[Victores]

Army Strength :Afghan guns can reload fasster than their European counterparts, Armored Rocket Elephants, a wooden shell carried by troops thats semi-bullet proof

this ^^ is not okay your nation is neither a part of the orient or the west so therefore, your guns and entire nation is not as advanced as the west and east. You cannot have faster loading weapons because of that, and in fact I have repeaters so that is impossible.

Armored rocket elephants had better be a joke
The Timurid had elephants with CANNONS strapped to them

The last one is a possibility but this is less for technology more for explaining things in a general sense. For example Say you wanted to have really well disciplined troops. Then you say well disciplined troops, then you explain why, like because they are drilled for hours every day or something.

You must say your weaknesses, at least a couple and explain them

As for you history, small amounts of conflicting history is okay, yours not only conflicts massive amounts with another nation but three other nations and therefore is not acceptable.
I'll try my best to fix that, but we can't deny that the Timurids existed and they did try to take over North Africa and did conquerer swathes of Anatolia

However I must give you credit. I wouldn't have even made an app for this RP as it seems full looking in. Anyway fix this and repost pls.

[Tracian Empire]

Army Strength :Afghan guns can reload fasster than their European counterparts, Armored Rocket Elephants, a wooden shell carried by troops thats semi-bullet proof

this ^^ is not okay your nation is neither a part of the orient or the west so therefore, your guns and entire nation is not as advanced as the west and east. You cannot have faster loading weapons because of that, and in fact I have repeaters so that is impossible.

Armored rocket elephants had better be a joke
The Timurid had elephants with CANNONS strapped to them

The last one is a possibility but this is less for technology more for explaining things in a general sense. For example Say you wanted to have really well disciplined troops. Then you say well disciplined troops, then you explain why, like because they are drilled for hours every day or something.

You must say your weaknesses, at least a couple and explain them

As for you history, small amounts of conflicting history is okay, yours not only conflicts massive amounts with another nation but three other nations and therefore is not acceptable.
I'll try my best to fix that, but we can't deny that the Timurids existed and they did try to take over North Africa and did conquerer swathes of Anatolia

However I must give you credit. I wouldn't have even made an app for this RP as it seems full looking in. Anyway fix this and repost pls.

This is an alternative history. According to my Roman history, Anatolia, or better called Asia Minor wasn't conquered by anyone, meaning that the Timurids were probably defeated either by the Romans alone or by a Roman-Akkadian Alliance.

And the conquest mentioned in your app is just impossible. The Imperium would have been irreparably damaged but that kind of an attack.

[The Greater Dutch Republic]

This is an alternative history. According to my Roman history, Anatolia, or better called Asia Minor wasn't conquered by anyone, meaning that the Timurids were probably defeated either by the Romans alone or by a Roman-Akkadian Alliance.

And the conquest mentioned in your app is just impossible. The Imperium would have been irreparably damaged but that kind of an attack.

I'm with Tracian. That history conflicts with so many other nations histories, and there's no way in Hell that could happen.

[Tracian Empire]

This is an alternative history. According to my Roman history, Anatolia, or better called Asia Minor wasn't conquered by anyone, meaning that the Timurids were probably defeated either by the Romans alone or by a Roman-Akkadian Alliance.

And the conquest mentioned in your app is just impossible. The Imperium would have been irreparably damaged but that kind of an attack.

I'm with Tracian. That history conflicts with so many other nations histories, and there's no way in Hell that could happen.

Also, according to this app, the Turks were conquered by the Timurids, which practically cancels the centuries of fight between the Romans and the Turks and especially the Roman victory at Manzikert.

[Tracian Empire]

And I'm still going on the thing that Constantinople was never conquered.

[Second Helghan Empire]

Victores I'm going to give you a chance possibly against my better judgement. However, your history must fit in with what is now canon in the storyline of this RP. Others have done it and so I believe you can to, but the fact remains you must conform.

On the topic of the elephants. I said no. why have elephants with rockets when it would be easier and more accurate to build wagons with them. Even then these must be extremely limited. I swear no OP BS or I'm drilling your elephants right up out of here.

[Old Tyrannia]

Last I checked Madagascar was being colonised by the Scandinavian Union, so Berinnica's app is a non-starter. Victores, I hope you understand that it is extremely rude of you to come into this RP demanding established members alter their histories to accommodate you. You are the newcomer, your history should not clash with that of others outside your borders.

[Tracian Empire]

I made a small post officially starting the Roman Invasion of the Neo-Akkadian Empire. A total of six legions will attack, two heading for Antioch, two for the heart of Syria, and two for Mesopotamia.

Some small explanations.

Sumus legionsque Romae
Aufer te, de via decedite,
Cornu sonat pedem inferre,
Milites Romani procedite!
=
We are the legions of Rome
Be off with you, get out of the way,
You've heard the trumpet sound, the infantry advance,
The soldiers of Rome march on!

Sive sequimur aquilas, sive progredimur ad cornices soli,
Nostra superbia est in legione
Et pugnans peditatus est domus gensque,
Et pugnans peditatus est domus gensque!
=
Whether we follow the eagles, or we go to the ravens alone,
Our pride is in the legion,
And the fighting infantry is our family and home,
And the fighting infantry is our family and home!
Nos signa sequimur, quocumque nos ducunt,
A barbara Orientalem deserta,
Ad Occidentis agros,
Milites Romani procedite!
=
We follow the standards, wherever they lead us,
From the barbaric deserts of the East
To the fields of the West,
Milites Romani procedite!

Also, progedi means advance, and Roma Invicta Est means Rome is invincible.

[The Emerald Dragon]

Well.

When this dies, send me a telegram.

[Tracian Empire]

Well.

When this dies, send me a telegram.

No, this won't die. Never.

[Novacom]

Question, how are you planning on invading through the pirate territory?

I do think we need to perhaps sort out some history however as thanks to a cursory read through the Roman Empire's history it has some unforeseen knock on effects, it actually nerfs the entirety of Europe, no fall of Constantinople or threats of it falling means no Renaissance as we know it AT ALL, which means coupled with The Legacy of Song Guidance it either drags the entire tech level back at least a century or two or actually makes the Far East and Mesoamerica more advanced than Europe.

Another interesting Nugget is that Akkadia would perhaps be the most populous place on the planet as I do remember reading that the middle east has only just RECENTLY reached the population it had before the Mongols landed. Since for the history of both to be valid it can be assumed Genghis tripped over a stray strand of hay and died as a two year old, this combined with what seems like Islam having not spread to the middle east that well, or at least Akkadia it further sets back the tech level.

Now I know Oscal has said population isn't a factor but all these knock-ons do make for an interesting scenario, all of a sudden Korea and the like are the most advanced in the world with Europe being considerably behind. Also depending how you want to roll that it means either Europe is vastly outnumbered population wise or things are not an issue (likely the latter given the opinion on numbers but it skews things towards the idea that feeding the populace's could be problematic...)

Anyway I think we need some thoroughly neutral guidance's just to make sure everyone is aware of those issues, like no renaissance as we knew it, different nations did the colonising i.e. no Spain and Portugal didn't last long before being smashed by Visigoths.

Oh and one final delicious Irony, visiting Koreans to Europe will have the same effect that the Spaniards did on the Aztec population RL

Well.

When this dies, send me a telegram.

No, this won't die. Never.

Agreed there and why would we want to send you a TG, who have just randomly stuck your head in to throw rocks for no apparent reason!

[Tracian Empire]

Question, how are you planning on invading through the pirate territory?

I do think we need to perhaps sort out some history however as thanks to a cursory read through the Roman Empire's history it has some unforeseen knock on effects, it actually nerfs the entirety of Europe, no fall of Constantinople or threats of it falling means no Renaissance as we know it AT ALL, which means coupled with The Legacy of Song Guidance it either drags the entire tech level back at least a century or two or actually makes the Far East and Mesoamerica more advanced than Europe.

Another interesting Nugget is that Akkadia would perhaps be the most populous place on the planet as I do remember reading that the middle east has only just RECENTLY reached the population it had before the Mongols landed. Since for the history of both to be valid it can be assumed Genghis tripped over a stray strand of hay and died as a two year old, this combined with what seems like Islam having not spread to the middle east that well, or at least Akkadia it further sets back the tech level.

Now I know Oscal has said population isn't a factor but all these knock-ons do make for an interesting scenario, all of a sudden Korea and the like are the most advanced in the world with Europe being considerably behind. Also depending how you want to roll that it means either Europe is vastly outnumbered population wise or things are not an issue (likely the latter given the opinion on numbers but it skews things towards the idea that feeding the populace's could be problematic...)

Anyway I think we need some thoroughly neutral guidance's just to make sure everyone is aware of those issues, like no renaissance as we knew it, different nations did the colonising i.e. no Spain and Portugal didn't last long before being smashed by Visigoths.

Oh and one final delicious Irony, visiting Koreans to Europe will have the same effect that the Spaniards did on the Aztec population RL

No, this won't die. Never.

Agreed there and why would we want to send you a TG, who have just randomly stuck your head in to throw rocks for no apparent reason!

Simple. Rolling through, beating the pirates, and then moving forward.

Yes, now that I think about it, you are right. No Fall of Constantinople would probably mean no Renaissance, but as Oscal said, nothing is perfect, and certain paradoxes are allowed.

[Novacom]

Simple. Rolling through, beating the pirates, and then moving forward.

Yes, now that I think about it, you are right. No Fall of Constantinople would probably mean no Renaissance, but as Oscal said, nothing is perfect, and certain paradoxes are allowed.

I thought you were still rolling through dealing with Trammel, and isn't such an attack very dangerous to yourself than anybody else you still have traitors roaming around, this could be your own Manzikert

Honestly though I think we should make a big mega timeline of where we diverge from RL and then try and join the dots up so we have something coherent, if nothing else it would be fun!

[Arenumberg]

Could counter-argue that a stable Constantinople lends itself to foreigners learning more freely than before in the city itself, especially without no Venician nonsense, thus butterflying that whole problem away.

[Bhikkustan]

Umm. Was I accepted?

[Second Helghan Empire]

Simple. Rolling through, beating the pirates, and then moving forward.

Yes, now that I think about it, you are right. No Fall of Constantinople would probably mean no Renaissance, but as Oscal said, nothing is perfect, and certain paradoxes are allowed.

I thought you were still rolling through dealing with Trammel, and isn't such an attack very dangerous to yourself than anybody else you still have traitors roaming around, this could be your own Manzikert

Honestly though I think we should make a big mega timeline of where we diverge from RL and then try and join the dots up so we have something coherent, if nothing else it would be fun!

No the pardoxes would have to be fixed to do that an if we fix the pardoxes then the idea behind the game would change. That Idea has so far been the east and west competing as equals and nations in the middle sort of growing power in a way as to one day be equals as well.

[The Emerald Dragon]

Question, how are you planning on invading through the pirate territory?

I do think we need to perhaps sort out some history however as thanks to a cursory read through the Roman Empire's history it has some unforeseen knock on effects, it actually nerfs the entirety of Europe, no fall of Constantinople or threats of it falling means no Renaissance as we know it AT ALL, which means coupled with The Legacy of Song Guidance it either drags the entire tech level back at least a century or two or actually makes the Far East and Mesoamerica more advanced than Europe.

Another interesting Nugget is that Akkadia would perhaps be the most populous place on the planet as I do remember reading that the middle east has only just RECENTLY reached the population it had before the Mongols landed. Since for the history of both to be valid it can be assumed Genghis tripped over a stray strand of hay and died as a two year old, this combined with what seems like Islam having not spread to the middle east that well, or at least Akkadia it further sets back the tech level.

Now I know Oscal has said population isn't a factor but all these knock-ons do make for an interesting scenario, all of a sudden Korea and the like are the most advanced in the world with Europe being considerably behind. Also depending how you want to roll that it means either Europe is vastly outnumbered population wise or things are not an issue (likely the latter given the opinion on numbers but it skews things towards the idea that feeding the populace's could be problematic...)

Anyway I think we need some thoroughly neutral guidance's just to make sure everyone is aware of those issues, like no renaissance as we knew it, different nations did the colonising i.e. no Spain and Portugal didn't last long before being smashed by Visigoths.

Oh and one final delicious Irony, visiting Koreans to Europe will have the same effect that the Spaniards did on the Aztec population RL

No, this won't die. Never.

Agreed there and why would we want to send you a TG, who have just randomly stuck your head in to throw rocks for no apparent reason!

If I came in here to discredit a roleplay then I'd have made far more than one post.

Novacom, in short - learn when a person is 'throwing rocks' AND when a person is simply asking as they've noticed for a while that there's been a lot less activity.

[The Greater Dutch Republic]

IM STILL HERE!
I haven't gotten a post up in forever. I'll try and hammer one out in the next day or so.

[Cymrea]

Also still here. Just busy IRL.

[Rygondria]

im still here as well