1850 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][CLOSED]

[Second Helghan Empire]

Just wanted to take the blame that it was my idea to create a western european alliance in the first place.
And actually it was to serve four goals, Keeping war out of western europe when war for colonies should be fought in colonies, Checking east asian power as a united front, Checking Russia and to an extent scandinavia and rome, Checking Islam which was never pushed out of spain in this rp.

[Second Helghan Empire]

In reality the main unrealistic thing about it is its name which seems to be the focus of the non members that feel a desire to spark wars in europe so to expand into europe.

[Tracian Empire]

Just wanted to take the blame that it was my idea to create a western european alliance in the first place.
And actually it was to serve four goals, Keeping war out of western europe when war for colonies should be fought in colonies, Checking east asian power as a united front, Checking Russia and to an extent scandinavia and rome, Checking Islam which was never pushed out of spain in this rp.

At least for me, an alliance of all Western European nations seems ridiculous from the start. The very fights between the Western European nations started numerous wars in real life, including two world wars.

Also, AEGIS may be keeping those nations in check, but it's unfair. You guys are already far away in the race for Colonies, and the AEGIS seems to ensure that it will remain that way.

[Novacom]

Just wanted to take the blame that it was my idea to create a western european alliance in the first place.
And actually it was to serve four goals, Keeping war out of western europe when war for colonies should be fought in colonies, Checking east asian power as a united front, Checking Russia and to an extent scandinavia and rome, Checking Islam which was never pushed out of spain in this rp.

To be fair none of that really required an alliance the first was done by in large as a matter of sense, the second well, makes little sense by itself as that would be individual nation policy to either exploit it or try to check it, as for those three that's plausible but the membership numbers just wouldn't be that great simply because of the fact that each of those requires a different response and would have different sets of allies some of which would be your members. Lastly, that one does make sense however by this point it would have grown to be accepted and the great game over colonies would more be the aim of things, and to a lesser extent some of your allies would likely be aiming to check your own power...

Europe should be at conflict, this was what gave it strength, through wars technologies advanced, tactics were developed change was brought about, without any of this Europe would be eclipsed by the rest of the world, this alliance seems to serve more to stop all of this. It's not of a desire for outsiders to expand into Europe, it's more to see realism where at present it's a little lacking, you'd be hard pressed to find a period where two nations in Europe were not in some level of conflict.

[Rygondria]

Just to forewarn you folks, it may be a few days before I'm able to post again. My apologies to Korea, Brittany and the Nordic Union players, who I know have already been waiting for a while.

As long as you are still holding on to here, you are awesome person in my book XDDD.

Just... note that event will still be happening. I know that you are not overtly attached to this, but I thought I should let you know what's going on ^^;;;

Anyhow, just post when you can, and I'll refrain from releasing pirates on you for now. Good luck in IRL!!

---

Working on event post. Aztec and France is done, but I have having trouble with Hansa because there wasn't anything good or bad... I mean from event perspective. Nothing unique, but nothing out of ordinary. Hmmm... what to do...

Anyhow, Rome would be easy, I already know what I am going to do for myself... surprisingly, Aztec post wasn't that bad once I actually KNEW who the fudge Bloody Mary was. So at the end of the day, her existence really made me rethink of consequence game for the Aztecs. I am very glad to know that I was wrong, and Nova was actually paying attention to my event post ^^.

I haven't gotten around to Dutch and Argentina, and I will soon. It seemed like Dutch was more along the lines of landgrab at first glance, but I was wrong for Aztec, so I won't judge just yet until I have thoroughly read through it. I am having a GREAT time reading through all the messages for once ^^

I was not really trying to make a land grab.

[Second Helghan Empire]

Just wanted to take the blame that it was my idea to create a western european alliance in the first place.
And actually it was to serve four goals, Keeping war out of western europe when war for colonies should be fought in colonies, Checking east asian power as a united front, Checking Russia and to an extent scandinavia and rome, Checking Islam which was never pushed out of spain in this rp.

At least for me, an alliance of all Western European nations seems ridiculous from the start. The very fights between the Western European nations started numerous wars in real life, including two world wars.

Also, AEGIS may be keeping those nations in check, but it's unfair. You guys are already far away in the race for Colonies, and the AEGIS seems to ensure that it will remain that way.

That was literally the point of the alliance. Why would western europeans who in this ah are no longer the most technologically advanced group of people give others a chance at becoming powerful too?

[Altito Asmoro]

Sorry Oscal, I guess I have to resign as Morocco, once again, sorry.

[Of the Quendi]

So we are discussing AEGIS again? Well I suspect everyone know where I stand on the topic. But since I was specifically mentioned I would say just two things. One; an alternative to AEGIS could be many things, there are plenty of possible alliance constellations with clearer defined purposes that could be envisioned. Two; the notion that criticism of AEGIS as being the result of people finding AEGIS standing in their way is, at least for me, false, and I would like to point out that there are also AEGIS members who has questioned the plausibility of the alliance so could we not second guess people's motivations, it just created a bad atmosphere.

Just wanted to take the blame that it was my idea to create a western european alliance in the first place.
And actually it was to serve four goals, Keeping war out of western europe when war for colonies should be fought in colonies, Checking east asian power as a united front, Checking Russia and to an extent scandinavia and rome, Checking Islam which was never pushed out of spain in this rp.

That actually sound quite sensible. Why when I have been clamoring for knowing what the purpose of AEGIS did people not just say this? I would have still regarded it as a bit of an extreme measure against the relatively small threats posed by any of those AEGIS adversaries but I can certainly see that that is a raison d'être for an alliance.

[Oscalantine]

Hey quendi, here's a crazy idea:

Why dont we... eastern nations... form an alliance of our own? I mean, the Europeans technically declared Americas as "East" by dubbing themselves "West," so why dont you jump to eastern side and join with Asians to kick the Europeans from our playground?

[Oscalantine]

... in all seriousness, the event posts are locked in, and I am posting within an hour. Any further post from hereon will be considered for next event horizon ^^

[Novacom]

Just for the record quendi human sacrifice hasn't been a thing since the 1600's though it will make for an interesting conversation point though I do wonder what happened to the summit you were intending to hold?

[Cymrea]

Quite simple, your asking for an alternative to it, but what alternative can there be to something that it should never have existed in such a fashion

Criticising AEGIS without suggesting an alternative is completely unhelpful.

"This is stupid!"

"All right, what would you suggest instead?"

"I don't know."

".....mkay."

Diplomacy during the time period was less grand alliances and more accords with specific goals, like prevent/manage the decline of the ottoman empire. Alliances were by in large between a nation or two, with larger alliances only rising when it was in explicit natural interest, they would not have formed otherwise, granted it has worked in a fashion in chilling conflict, but there was SO much conflict in this century however it was low key and usually over some colony or in aid of an ally.

Understood. But I will say again, just because it was like that in RL doesn't mean it has to be in this AH. There are countless ways in which we contravene reality - and in some places strain credibility - so focusing this much criticism on one thing like AEGIS just seems self-serving.

Arguably such an alliance affects me not in the slightest as sending an invasion force large enough to be factor and get past the swarming pirates is wholly impractical as well, it's more the fact of what it does to Europe and by extension everything else, conflict DROVE this time period...

In real life. It need not be so in our AH.

...without that people declaring their enthusiasm for us getting to the 20th century will be in for a rude awakening when the tech level has barely moved because of circumstances not existing for that advancement.

If Aegis had been something like the Cambridge Accord and was a mutual agreement between Cambria, France and Austria to check Russian Expansion, while Austria was allied with the Netherlands and France hostile to Austria that would have been accurate as compromise would have been so important as without that accord the position of all three becomes that much weaker. Open Membership certainly wouldn't have been a thing so people petitioning to join just wouldn't be a thing, it would be more a private gentlemanly agreement.

Herein lies the spectre of an alternative suggestion.

Again, I'm open to and willing to consider an alternative. I think that alternative should be suggested internally by one of the AEGIS nations: either a schism over ambitions, conflicting loyalties...something. Breaking it up because folks are complaining about anachronism would imply that our roleplay is limited by narrower perspectives.

[Oscalantine]

Herein lies the spectre of an alternative suggestion.

Again, I'm open to and willing to consider an alternative. I think that alternative should be suggested internally by one of the AEGIS nations: either a schism over ambitions, conflicting loyalties...something. Breaking it up because folks are complaining about anachronism would imply that our roleplay is limited by narrower perspectives.

I couldn't agree more.

I mean... some realism should be considered... like having stupendously high technology that is kind of going toward awkwardness.

However... this RP's title is "Alternate DIVERGENCE," which means that the history has DIVERGED somewhere ^^;;;
So it would be natural to say that not everything went EXACTLY towards one reality. Therefore, AEGIS has my full blessing and support... although it does make things a bit more complicated for Korea XDDD

In historical perspective... we are not that far off. There has been numerous attempts at "peace in our times" by Europe during this era as well. Sure, the first REAL coalition-like alliances came with Consort of Europe and Berlin Conferences... but those are only one or two decades away. Plus, the existence of powerful Asian nations in the Pacific as well as majority of Americas being independent would make ANY European nations even in our timeline antsy and wish to collude and become a stronger whole for the greater good of their region. I believe that even WITH 100% realism, it just makes sense for regional alliance like AEGIS to form early, because Europe has more than themselves to worry about.

[Oscalantine]

I was not really trying to make a land grab.

I am VERY pleasant to realize that I was wrong. I read your post in-full, and realized that you are doing AMAZING~!!!

Yeah, I have noted it... but one thing: I assumed that your statement of "natives" as those Islamic folks who had their tribal livelihoods destroyed by colonization from Korea, Dutch, and Brazil. THOSE guys... probably hate us more than they hate the pirates, so I made note of that ^^;;; hopefully that's fine with you~!

[Oscalantine]

By the gods...

Done with first update. Amazing posts, everyone... really kept me on toes to make sure that I caught everyone.

A few things... I have been stressing this for a VERY long time... but it seems that people still didn't do a few things that they needed to:

1. Please don't do [WiP] posts... ESPECIALLY for the event post. I am NOT going to be able to backtrack and keep everyone updated if there is WiP. I am going to make executive decision now to ignore the WiP posts for the event post. Should I catch them before I make an update? Awesome. If not... sorry dude, but I cannot keep up with that T^T
   • For those who... are doing this out of necessity... which I know is ALL of you... TG me IN DETAIL about your post and I will update it best I can.
   • So Brittany, if you can TG me what happened (should this be an event post), then I will try my best to edit you into update #1. HOWEVER... if you cannot fill me in before update #2 happens... I cannot edit EVERYTHING to fit in one continuity. Your post will have to be updated in update #2 ^^;;;
2. PLEASE PUT [EVENT] (and [/EVENT] if your posts are long T^T) FOR YOUR EVENT POSTS!!! I tried my best to find everyone's this time, but it will get much more difficult as diplomacy is fiddled with between events, and I will make mistakes and may not reply to your event, making you miss out on certain events T^T. Please help me to help you ^^
3. Sorry dudes!!! TT^TT I was SUPER biased as possible in your favor... giving you the BEST POSSIBLE EVENT even if you played with fire (literal case for Tracian XDDD) a bit. But I couldn't ignore some posts that seemed like a landgrab, so I acted in turn and gave those who did a bit of a penalty. Please follow the lore and ASK AROUND. I want to make this event as good as possible, but I don't want to just GIVE everyone free lands because that isn't fun ^^;;;

[Tracian Empire]

So, a quick question. If I would move my troops from the border with the Akkadians to attack the inland territories of the pirates, I assume that I won't meet too much resistance. Am I right?

EDIT: Also, I love what you just did. This Captain Trummel will really give some problems to the Imperium.

[Oscalantine]

So, a quick question. If I would move my troops from the border with the Akkadians to attack the inland territories of the pirates, I assume that I won't meet too much resistance. Am I right?

EXACTLY!!!

Of course... remember what I wrote. Trammel basically has a spy within your ranks. You don't know if this turncoat is just your local nobles or a higher command, so you may need to find that network and root it out before making major offensive. Otherwise, you may end up being completely messed with like Christendom ^^;;;

EDIT
Forgot to read the edit before posting. I am glad that you liked~~ ^^
I wanted to give each region a bit more of a spice. For Med Sea it would be criminal network that Trammel set up and it will become a major problem if there isn't a massive counterintelligence network working around the clock to root it out.

... ... .. wait, was it Trummel and not Trammel? Because if it was, I have too much NPCs out atm XDDD

[Tracian Empire]

So, a quick question. If I would move my troops from the border with the Akkadians to attack the inland territories of the pirates, I assume that I won't meet too much resistance. Am I right?

EXACTLY!!!

Of course... remember what I wrote. Trammel basically has a spy within your ranks. You don't know if this turncoat is just your local nobles or a higher command, so you may need to find that network and root it out before making major offensive. Otherwise, you may end up being completely messed with like Christendom ^^;;;

Have you ever heard of the Roman interrogators? No. Because no one is interrogated by them and lives to tell the tale.

[Oscalantine]

EXACTLY!!!

Of course... remember what I wrote. Trammel basically has a spy within your ranks. You don't know if this turncoat is just your local nobles or a higher command, so you may need to find that network and root it out before making major offensive. Otherwise, you may end up being completely messed with like Christendom ^^;;;

Have you ever heard of the Roman interrogators? No. Because no one is interrogated by them and lives to tell the tale.

Exactly the reason why Trammel hired a gun to blunderbuss every captain that you captured XDDD

I suppose inquisition-style would be interesting, especially when considering that it is your military that you are talking about. I am looking forward to seeing how you handle the situation, since it may be something REALLY high up in the command.

Speaking of command... could I get a little lesson in how your military hierarchy works? I may need to know them so that I can RP events more effectively for you ^^;;;

[Lenyo]

I'm moving today and tomorrow. I'll post Saturday.

[Oscalantine]

I'm moving today and tomorrow. I'll post Saturday.

Hope you liked your post ^^

[Lenyo]

I'm moving today and tomorrow. I'll post Saturday.

Hope you liked your post ^^

I very much did.

[Second Helghan Empire]

Oscal i think i'm in love with you. Just when I think this roleplay can't get better.

Now I have to figure out what to do to make my Pirates behave themselves hmmm.
Also for captain wiseman. Is there any way I can get him to return and fight for hansa?

Hey christendom, I can move my fleet to sicily to help defend it if you like, you said you already have a sizable force in malta so I'm not helping you there.

[Cymrea]

Oscal i think i'm in love with you. Just when I think this roleplay can't get better.

Now I have to figure out what to do to make my Pirates behave themselves hmmm.
Also for captain wiseman. Is there any way I can get him to return and fight for hansa?

Hey christendom, I can move my fleet to sicily to help defend it if you like, you said you already have a sizable force in malta so I'm not helping you there.

I will try to post something for the eastern Med, soon.

[Oscalantine]

Oscal i think i'm in love with you. Just when I think this roleplay can't get better.

Now I have to figure out what to do to make my Pirates behave themselves hmmm.
Also for captain wiseman. Is there any way I can get him to return and fight for hansa?

Hey christendom, I can move my fleet to sicily to help defend it if you like, you said you already have a sizable force in malta so I'm not helping you there.

Thanks XDDD I am glad that you are enjoying yourself ^^

Well... the reward for this event is to be able to hire pirates that you convinced as Great Admirals that will win battles for you. So... yes, you will. However, I am not going to penalize you for choosing any other side: be it Catholic or Orthodox, if you side against Wiseman, others will rise from the ranks and you can convince them to join as well.

Aah... Christendom was one of the folks that I had to mess with a bit ^^;;;
The problem with Christendom is less to do with ships, but a HUGE intelligence network of espionage of counter-intelligence. In fact, Trammel is the only REAL threat in the Mediterranean Sea, which makes him REALLY a tough nut to crack. Christendom would probably have a better use for intelligence network than ships, since you cannot stop Trammel with guns alone ^^