1850 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][CLOSED]

[Second Helghan Empire]

Thank you dutch you are a good ally

Technically he wouldn't be of any use to you at all, trying as he would to establish control over areas in Europe larger and with the same or more population than his homeland, if he tried to he'd be get kicked out of his new holdings by uprisings...

I know but I don't plan on goin to war in the first place, and while Rome won't admit it my army could hold their ground well enough by themselves. Who would support romes fight anyway? Taurica maybe russia wouldn't and everyone else with interest in the area is in aegis.

[Tracian Empire]

Technically he wouldn't be of any use to you at all, trying as he would to establish control over areas in Europe larger and with the same or more population than his homeland, if he tried to he'd be get kicked out of his new holdings by uprisings...

I know but I don't plan on goin to war in the first place, and while Rome won't admit it my army could hold their ground well enough by themselves. Who would support romes fight anyway? Taurica maybe russia wouldn't and everyone else with interest in the area is in aegis.

Then go on. Attack me. Show the power of AEGIS. It's not like I care.

[Novacom]

Technically he wouldn't be of any use to you at all, trying as he would to establish control over areas in Europe larger and with the same or more population than his homeland, if he tried to he'd be get kicked out of his new holdings by uprisings...

I know but I don't plan on goin to war in the first place, and while Rome won't admit it my army could hold their ground well enough by themselves. Who would support romes fight anyway? Taurica maybe russia wouldn't and everyone else with interest in the area is in aegis.

Which only brings up the fact about how unrealistic AEGIS is, and the point isn't how effective your army is, it's the practicality of shipping it a vast distance in time for it to do anything effective or keep it fighting or being able to reinforce it in time for such things to even work...

[Second Helghan Empire]

I know but I don't plan on goin to war in the first place, and while Rome won't admit it my army could hold their ground well enough by themselves. Who would support romes fight anyway? Taurica maybe russia wouldn't and everyone else with interest in the area is in aegis.

Which only brings up the fact about how unrealistic AEGIS is, and the point isn't how effective your army is, it's the practicality of shipping it a vast distance in time for it to do anything effective or keep it fighting or being able to reinforce it in time for such things to even work...

Neither of you listen well. I said i never intended on going to war. Rome i ridculous in it's aggression toward any member of aegis and the aztek are so isolationist they probably don't even know what aegis is.

[Tracian Empire]

Which only brings up the fact about how unrealistic AEGIS is, and the point isn't how effective your army is, it's the practicality of shipping it a vast distance in time for it to do anything effective or keep it fighting or being able to reinforce it in time for such things to even work...

Neither of you listen well. I said i never intended on going to war. Rome i ridculous in it's aggression toward any member of aegis and the aztek are so isolationist they probably don't even know what aegis is.

Once again, I will never attack your troops. I will advance in the Neo-Akkadian Empire.


Of course, the current situation is that we have a NATO, but we don't have a WarPac to counter it.

[Novacom]

Which only brings up the fact about how unrealistic AEGIS is, and the point isn't how effective your army is, it's the practicality of shipping it a vast distance in time for it to do anything effective or keep it fighting or being able to reinforce it in time for such things to even work...

Neither of you listen well. I said i never intended on going to war. Rome i ridculous in it's aggression toward any member of aegis and the aztek are so isolationist they probably don't even know what aegis is.

I'm thinking more long term, and I am allowed to have an opinion on the unrealistic nature of AEGIS, what I express here isn't an IC opinion, ICly I couldn't care less, I have my own things to take care of OOCly, I will question anybody talking up the practicality of waging a war against someone of similar strength/tech over such distances...

[Second Helghan Empire]

Neither of you listen well. I said i never intended on going to war. Rome i ridculous in it's aggression toward any member of aegis and the aztek are so isolationist they probably don't even know what aegis is.

I'm thinking more long term, and I am allowed to have an opinion on the unrealistic nature of AEGIS, what I express here isn't an IC opinion, ICly I couldn't care less, I have my own things to take care of OOCly, I will question anybody talking up the practicality of waging a war against someone of similar strength/tech over such distances...

Like i said i am not going to war with him unless he attacks me and as he is of the same opinion neither of us will confront one another in the near future via IC.

[Novacom]

I'm thinking more long term, and I am allowed to have an opinion on the unrealistic nature of AEGIS, what I express here isn't an IC opinion, ICly I couldn't care less, I have my own things to take care of OOCly, I will question anybody talking up the practicality of waging a war against someone of similar strength/tech over such distances...

Like i said i am not going to war with him unless he attacks me and as he is of the same opinion neither of us will confront one another in the near future via IC.

Then what is this entire argument over, He'll be in a position to get what he wants before you so trying to do this would make you lose face ICly which I somehow doubt you would want to do.

[Tracian Empire]

I strongly believe that the remains of the Akkadian forces will be able to defend their capital from the small Hanseatic Army just enough for my forces to break through the pirates and get there.

[Second Helghan Empire]

Like i said i am not going to war with him unless he attacks me and as he is of the same opinion neither of us will confront one another in the near future via IC.

Then what is this entire argument over, He'll be in a position to get what he wants before you so trying to do this would make you lose face ICly which I somehow doubt you would want to do.

I merely wanted to use it as leverage to get rome and the other nations at the summit to recognize my control of the persian coast in it's entirety. I only argued at all to try to avoid stating that bluntly and convince him to diplomatically work a settlement.

[Second Helghan Empire]

I strongly believe that the remains of the Akkadian forces will be able to defend their capital from the small Hanseatic Army just enough for my forces to break through the pirates and get there.

Wtf how big is your army mine numbers at around 200,000 right now.

[Novacom]

Then what is this entire argument over, He'll be in a position to get what he wants before you so trying to do this would make you lose face ICly which I somehow doubt you would want to do.

I merely wanted to use it as leverage to get rome and the other nations at the summit to recognize my control of the persian coast in it's entirety. I only argued at all to try to avoid stating that bluntly and convince him to diplomatically work a settlement.

Be subtle in the IC thread and blunt OOCly I thought we'd established some people around here lack the capacity to understand it in written form

I strongly believe that the remains of the Akkadian forces will be able to defend their capital from the small Hanseatic Army just enough for my forces to break through the pirates and get there.

Wtf how big is your army mine numbers at around 200,000 right now.

But are you going to be sending every one of those across the globe and would you have the naval transport capacity to do so is what he's driving at...

[Tracian Empire]

I strongly believe that the remains of the Akkadian forces will be able to defend their capital from the small Hanseatic Army just enough for my forces to break through the pirates and get there.

Wtf how big is your army mine numbers at around 200,000 right now.

300.000 as the peace time force. 300.000 disciplined, trained, and experienced soldiers. The thing is,a large part of that is at my border with the pirates/Akkadians. You can't possibly bring that many there.

Also, flamethrowers. They work really good in the desert.

[Second Helghan Empire]

I merely wanted to use it as leverage to get rome and the other nations at the summit to recognize my control of the persian coast in it's entirety. I only argued at all to try to avoid stating that bluntly and convince him to diplomatically work a settlement.

Be subtle in the IC thread and blunt OOCly I thought we'd established some people around here lack the capacity to understand it in written form

Wtf how big is your army mine numbers at around 200,000 right now.

But are you going to be sending every one of those across the globe and would you have the naval transport capacity to do so is what he's driving at...

Actually i'm pretty sure he was driving at the fact that now over two years prior the Hansa federal military only had around 3,500 men with the states having the large armies I reorganized the politics and military early in Schmidt's term and now the federal military takes a tithe from the state armies and increased it's basic max

I know I can't transport all of them but already I have around 2/3 of my navy in the aden gulf and the med as well as around 25,000 troops. That would be enough coupled with the support of my pirate allies to balance it, but that is only as a defensive measure (well not for persia but yea)

[Second Helghan Empire]

Wtf how big is your army mine numbers at around 200,000 right now.

300.000 as the peace time force. 300.000 disciplined, trained, and experienced soldiers. The thing is,a large part of that is at my border with the pirates/Akkadians. You can't possibly bring that many there.

Also, flamethrowers. They work really good in the desert.

Look dude I plainly said what the actuall situation but you are so fixated on war you failed to notice at all.

[Second Helghan Empire]

Then what is this entire argument over, He'll be in a position to get what he wants before you so trying to do this would make you lose face ICly which I somehow doubt you would want to do.

I merely wanted to use it as leverage to get rome and the other nations at the summit to recognize my control of the persian coast in it's entirety. I only argued at all to try to avoid stating that bluntly and convince him to diplomatically work a settlement.

[Tracian Empire]

300.000 as the peace time force. 300.000 disciplined, trained, and experienced soldiers. The thing is,a large part of that is at my border with the pirates/Akkadians. You can't possibly bring that many there.

Also, flamethrowers. They work really good in the desert.

Look dude I plainly said what the actuall situation but you are so fixated on war you failed to notice at all.

I've had enough with the people underestimating the Imperium. As I said before, you can have the territories of the pirates in the Persian Gulf, but that be it. No Mesopotamia. As long as we agree on that, we can have a deal.

[Second Helghan Empire]

Look dude I plainly said what the actuall situation but you are so fixated on war you failed to notice at all.

I've had enough with the people underestimating the Imperium. As I said before, you can have the territories of the pirates in the Persian Gulf, but that be it. No Mesopotamia. As long as we agree on that, we can have a deal.

Yes finally the whole point was to make sure you understood I claimed southern Persia and to get you to recognize my claim at the summit.

[Tracian Empire]

I've had enough with the people underestimating the Imperium. As I said before, you can have the territories of the pirates in the Persian Gulf, but that be it. No Mesopotamia. As long as we agree on that, we can have a deal.

Yes finally the whole point was to make sure you understood I claimed southern Persia and to get you to recognize my claim at the summit.

I just want you to understand that unless I really screw it up, the chances of a Hanseatic victory in Mesopotamia are pretty, pretty low.


You can have southern Persia, but I will try to take the rest.

[The Greater Dutch Republic]

I know I won't be able to get that many troops to Akkadia fast, but it's the point that I will stick by my allies. Also, I hate to admit he's right, but Tracian is kinda right about the AEGIS. It's basically a giant Power Rangers robot made up of all of us that goes around trying to keep people from killing each other. It's really OP.

[Novacom]

I know I won't be able to get that many troops to Akkadia fast, but it's the point that I will stick by my allies. Also, I hate to admit he's right, but Tracian is kinda right about the AEGIS. It's basically a giant Power Rangers robot made up of all of us that goes around trying to keep people from killing each other. It's really OP.

Also completely unrealistic for the time period, even the name is nonsensical, global integrity and security, if you said that to anybody who mattered in Europe back in the day they would have laughed themselves to death...

[Cymrea]

I know I won't be able to get that many troops to Akkadia fast, but it's the point that I will stick by my allies. Also, I hate to admit he's right, but Tracian is kinda right about the AEGIS. It's basically a giant Power Rangers robot made up of all of us that goes around trying to keep people from killing each other. It's really OP.

Also completely unrealistic for the time period, even the name is nonsensical, global integrity and security, if you said that to anybody who mattered in Europe back in the day they would have laughed themselves to death...

Yep. Heard this many times from Quendi already, thanks. I also noticed no one else putting forth any alternatives.

I put that particular name forward, so I will accept the brunt of the collective ridicule for it, but I cannot promise that I'll be terribly gracious about deliberately antagonistic criticisms.

[Tracian Empire]

Also completely unrealistic for the time period, even the name is nonsensical, global integrity and security, if you said that to anybody who mattered in Europe back in the day they would have laughed themselves to death...

Yep. Heard this many times from Quendi already, thanks. I also noticed no one else putting forth any alternatives.

I put that particular name forward, so I will accept the brunt of the collective ridicule for it, but I cannot promise that I'll be terribly gracious about deliberately antagonistic criticisms.

The problem is that the possibility of a NATO like alliance to exist in the 1850's, no matter the alternative history, is really, really small. And also, as you have seen, it pretty much blocks any war opportunity across the world, blocking nations from expanding, and that way keeping the supremacy of the nations in AEGIS.

[Cymrea]

Yep. Heard this many times from Quendi already, thanks. I also noticed no one else putting forth any alternatives.

I put that particular name forward, so I will accept the brunt of the collective ridicule for it, but I cannot promise that I'll be terribly gracious about deliberately antagonistic criticisms.

The problem is that the possibility of a NATO like alliance to exist in the 1850's, no matter the alternative history, is really, really small. And also, as you have seen, it pretty much blocks any war opportunity across the world, blocking nations from expanding, and that way keeping the supremacy of the nations in AEGIS.

The possibility of a lot of things in this RP are rather small. We chalk most of it up to AH, deal with it, and move on. AEGIS' primary detractors are those who are directly inhibited by its existence, and in all fairness one must wonder how much of the criticism is self-serving.

So far, the spectre of AEGIS' response has done a great deal to keep folks from stomping their way across the planet. Not terrible, in my opinion. But also, AEGIS hasn't done anything in actuality yet. And there is some question - in my mind, at least - as to how effective AEGIS will be in action. There are conflicting ambitions and loyalties involved. Ignoring this and focusing solely on bitching about anachronism, and way out of proportion to boot, is uncharitable at best.

That said, I'm not closed to a proposed alternative to AEGIS. Maybe it breaks through schism into two or three pieces. My only hesitation is that it could seem as though the campaign of criticism will have prevailed. That's not an acceptable method for promoting change to the status quo, again in my opinion.

But again. An alternative is something I will consider. And someone else can come up with a name that won't invite petty sniping.

[Novacom]

The problem is that the possibility of a NATO like alliance to exist in the 1850's, no matter the alternative history, is really, really small. And also, as you have seen, it pretty much blocks any war opportunity across the world, blocking nations from expanding, and that way keeping the supremacy of the nations in AEGIS.

The possibility of a lot of things in this RP are rather small. We chalk most of it up to AH, deal with it, and move on. AEGIS' primary detractors are those who are directly inhibited by its existence, and in all fairness one must wonder how much of the criticism is self-serving.

So far, the spectre of AEGIS' response has done a great deal to keep folks from stomping their way across the planet. Not terrible, in my opinion. But also, AEGIS hasn't done anything in actuality yet. And there is some question - in my mind, at least - as to how effective AEGIS will be in action. There are conflicting ambitions and loyalties involved. Ignoring this and focusing solely on bitching about anachronism, and way out of proportion to boot, is uncharitable at best.

That said, I'm not closed to a proposed alternative to AEGIS. Maybe it breaks through schism into two or three pieces. My only hesitation is that it could seem as though the campaign of criticism will have prevailed. That's not an acceptable method for promoting change to the status quo, again in my opinion.

But again. An alternative is something I will consider. And someone else can come up with a name that won't invite petty sniping.

Quite simple, your asking for an alternative to it, but what alternative can there be to something that it should never have existed in such a fashion, Diplomacy during the time period was less grand alliances and more accords with specific goals, like prevent/manage the decline of the ottoman empire. Alliances were by in large between a nation or two, with larger alliances only rising when it was in explicit natural interest, they would not have formed otherwise, granted it has worked in a fashion in chilling conflict, but there was SO much conflict in this century however it was low key and usually over some colony or in aid of an ally.

Arguably such an alliance affects me not in the slightest as sending an invasion force large enough to be factor and get past the swarming pirates is wholly impractical as well, it's more the fact of what it does to Europe and by extension everything else, conflict DROVE this time period, without that people declaring their enthusiasm for us getting to the 20th century will be in for a rude awakening when the tech level has barely moved because of circumstances not existing for that advancement.

If Aegis had been something like the Cambridge Accord and was a mutual agreement between Cambria, France and Austria to check Russian Expansion, while Austria was allied with the Netherlands and France hostile to Austria that would have been accurate as compromise would have been so important as without that accord the position of all three becomes that much weaker. Open Membership certainly wouldn't have been a thing so people petitioning to join just wouldn't be a thing, it would be more a private gentlemanly agreement.