1850 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][CLOSED]

[Epraria]

Silly Rome everyone knows that Britannia rules the seas, Russia is the third Rome, Germany is Industry incarnate and Italy doesn't want you. So go back to non-rome

Let me see... Russia isn't the third Rome. Constantinople, the Second Rome, never fell. Germany is some kind of a merchant nation thingy. Italy doesn't want me, I want it. And Britannia is some kind of a Cambria. Rome's way to power and glory is open.

Just because you want Italy does not mean you can simply conquer them without a fight. Cambria is essentially Britain in all but name and Russian ambition most likely still stands. Rome isn't going to reconquer the empire.

Err... ... ... I really cannot say no to that, because I have Ironclad shaped like a turtle (Turtle Ship, don't get me wrong). XDDD

As long as it strides within the realm of realism and IRL logic. I am not against creativity as much as I am against everyone shoving TG up in my face about how much of OP-ness submarine squid is causing in my RP.

What about ironclads with giant Greek fire throwers?

Or how about the more powerful, accurate and longer ranged cannons and artillery.

[Tracian Empire]

Well, I don't want to seem annoying, but territory-like there would be a problem with Crete. Even if I understand that my claim probably wasn't clear, if Italy has Crete, it will need at least one of two big wars with the Roman Empire to be able to take it by force. If he has Crete, I will have to change my first objective from Egypt to Crete.

What would be your compromise, then? Have it be independent kingdom for you two to duke it out in future wars?

I dunno exactly how it would have worked out, but couldn't it have been independent nation that fell away from Byzantine during the more difficult times in Roman history, and it was later claimed by western rome before the east had any thoughts about conquering them again... because that Turk stuff?

Well, I could agree with that. An independent kingdom. Of course, I don't and I won't recognize the name of Western Rome. That's just some little Italian Kingdom. The only true Roman Empire is my Roman Empire

Of course, that would be my first priority. I can't possibly start to colonize Egypt with that thorn in my side.

[Epraria]

What would be your compromise, then? Have it be independent kingdom for you two to duke it out in future wars?

I dunno exactly how it would have worked out, but couldn't it have been independent nation that fell away from Byzantine during the more difficult times in Roman history, and it was later claimed by western rome before the east had any thoughts about conquering them again... because that Turk stuff?

Well, I could agree with that. An independent kingdom. Of course, I don't and I won't recognize the name of Western Rome. That's just some little Italian Kingdom. The only true Roman Empire is my Roman Empire

Of course, that would be my first priority. I can't possibly start to colonize Egypt with that thorn in my side.

Time to sign treaty to annex Egyptian vassal state then.

[Tracian Empire]

Let me see... Russia isn't the third Rome. Constantinople, the Second Rome, never fell. Germany is some kind of a merchant nation thingy. Italy doesn't want me, I want it. And Britannia is some kind of a Cambria. Rome's way to power and glory is open.

Just because you want Italy does not mean you can simply conquer them without a fight. Cambria is essentially Britain in all but name and Russian ambition most likely still stands. Rome isn't going to reconquer the empire.

What about ironclads with giant Greek fire throwers?

Or how about the more powerful, accurate and longer ranged cannons and artillery.

First of all, Russian ambition? The entire thing that started their ambition was Byzantium's fall, and the fact that they claimed to be the Third Rome. This hasn't happened, and I'm trying to establish friendly relations with the other big Orthodox superpower anyway.

Italy, yes, it will be hard but not impossible.

Cambria/Britain is too far away to do anything. I am not interested in a war with them.

[Tracian Empire]

Let me see... Russia isn't the third Rome. Constantinople, the Second Rome, never fell. Germany is some kind of a merchant nation thingy. Italy doesn't want me, I want it. And Britannia is some kind of a Cambria. Rome's way to power and glory is open.

Just because you want Italy does not mean you can simply conquer them without a fight. Cambria is essentially Britain in all but name and Russian ambition most likely still stands. Rome isn't going to reconquer the empire.

What about ironclads with giant Greek fire throwers?

Or how about the more powerful, accurate and longer ranged cannons and artillery.

Or how about ironclads with more powerful, accurate and longer ranged cannons and artillery, and Greek fire throwers. If I get near, your fleet will be turned to ashes.

[Oscalantine]

Err... ... ... I really cannot say no to that, because I have Ironclad shaped like a turtle (Turtle Ship, don't get me wrong). XDDD

As long as it strides within the realm of realism and IRL logic. I am not against creativity as much as I am against everyone shoving TG up in my face about how much of OP-ness submarine squid is causing in my RP.

What about ironclads with giant Greek fire throwers?

Let's get facts straight...

Greek Fire was a historical invention used and documented. Regardless of its actual factual-ness... it existed, and it will exist.

Turtle Ships is LITERALLY world's first Ironclad, in that it used steel as a main proponent for its ship design to prevent Japanese from boarding their ramming ships. Turtle Ship did not saw much use after the war, simply due to corruption. However, its effectiveness is still very much widely known among the weapon critics... although it has been said to be abit limited in use at shallow oceans. With Korea at the same tech level as Europeans, such problems won't be as prominent, allowing Turtle Ships to be used more effectively.

Yeah. I suppose I can allow ultima-Katana if someone brings me the factual evidence for them. Same goes for other unique weapons that you want in for your country. If I remember correctly, Americans were first to design magazine-loaded, quick-reload rifles a few decades after our starting timeline. I have no problems saying yes to that... since America would be more scientifically aware in our AH. Others... heck, if you know'em, and it was around our starting year, I will approve its use.

[Tracian Empire]

What about ironclads with giant Greek fire throwers?

Let's get facts straight...

Greek Fire was a historical invention used and documented. Regardless of its actual factual-ness... it existed, and it will exist.

Turtle Ships is LITERALLY world's first Ironclad, in that it used steel as a main proponent for its ship design to prevent Japanese from boarding their ramming ships. Turtle Ship did not saw much use after the war, simply due to corruption. However, its effectiveness is still very much widely known among the weapon critics... although it has been said to be abit limited in use at shallow oceans. With Korea at the same tech level as Europeans, such problems won't be as prominent, allowing Turtle Ships to be used more effectively.

Yeah. I suppose I can allow ultima-Katana if someone brings me the factual evidence for them. Same goes for other unique weapons that you want in for your country. If I remember correctly, Americans were first to design magazine-loaded, quick-reload rifles a few decades after our starting timeline. I have no problems saying yes to that... since America would be more scientifically aware in our AH. Others... heck, if you know'em, and it was around our starting year, I will approve its use.

The Greek fire, or let's use a different name for it here, the Roman fire, will be one of most important weapons. I won't always use it, because it's dangerous to do so, but that doesn't mean that I can't work on developing a safer way to use it.

[Cymrea]

Cambria is essentially Britain in all but name.

And Britannia is some kind of a Cambria.

Both true. Anytime you would use the terms Britain or British, you can substitute Cambria or Cambrian; they are synonymous.

Cambria is a Welsh-dominated, Roman-influenced, pagan version of RL Britain. Cambria is what the Romans called Wales, and preferable to the name Wales because it's derived from the Welsh word Cymru, which is descended from the Brythonic word combrogi, meaning "fellow-countrymen".

Plus all of the ministers in the Royal Senate have Latin titles like Praetor Extraterritorialis, Quaestor, and Consul Agrestis, et cetera.

[Oscalantine]

Let's get facts straight...

Greek Fire was a historical invention used and documented. Regardless of its actual factual-ness... it existed, and it will exist.

Turtle Ships is LITERALLY world's first Ironclad, in that it used steel as a main proponent for its ship design to prevent Japanese from boarding their ramming ships. Turtle Ship did not saw much use after the war, simply due to corruption. However, its effectiveness is still very much widely known among the weapon critics... although it has been said to be abit limited in use at shallow oceans. With Korea at the same tech level as Europeans, such problems won't be as prominent, allowing Turtle Ships to be used more effectively.

Yeah. I suppose I can allow ultima-Katana if someone brings me the factual evidence for them. Same goes for other unique weapons that you want in for your country. If I remember correctly, Americans were first to design magazine-loaded, quick-reload rifles a few decades after our starting timeline. I have no problems saying yes to that... since America would be more scientifically aware in our AH. Others... heck, if you know'em, and it was around our starting year, I will approve its use.

The Greek fire, or let's use a different name for it here, the Roman fire, will be one of most important weapons. I won't always use it, because it's dangerous to do so, but that doesn't mean that I can't work on developing a safer way to use it.

Sounds about right. Although I would think that it would be used whenever there is wind in your favor if I was... well, you XDD

[Tracian Empire]

Cambria is essentially Britain in all but name.

And Britannia is some kind of a Cambria.

Both true. Anytime you would use the terms Britain or British, you can substitute Cambria or Cambrian; they are synonymous.

Cambria is a Welsh-dominated, Roman-influenced, pagan version of RL Britain. Cambria is what the Romans called Wales, and preferable to the name Wales because it's derived from the Welsh word Cymru, which is descended from the Brythonic word combrogi, meaning "fellow-countrymen".

Plus all of the ministers in the Royal Senate have Latin titles like Praetor Extraterritorialis, Quaestor, and Consul Agrestis, et cetera.

That's interesting. It will be nice to see what will such a Britain do.

So..... mister Roman influenced Britain...

would you be interested in friendly relations between Imperium Romanum and Cambira?

[Epraria]

Can people stop talking about greek fire as if it is a super weapon that wins entire wars on it's own? It was surprisingly advanced for it's time but it never saved the Byzantines now did it?

Also i'm not sure if i want to RP here anymore, sorry for all inconveniences if that's the case.

[Cymrea]

The Greek fire, or let's use a different name for it here, the Roman fire, will be one of most important weapons. I won't always use it, because it's dangerous to do so, but that doesn't mean that I can't work on developing a safer way to use it.

Mars help you if a cannon hits your ship where the reservoir tank is....

Yes, Cambria and Roma can be good friends.

[Benuty]

Can people stop talking about greek fire as if it is a super weapon that wins entire wars on it's own? It was surprisingly advanced for it's time but it never saved the Byzantines now did it?

Also i'm not sure if i want to RP here anymore, sorry for all inconveniences if that's the case.

Don't leave!

[Suekiva]

Can people stop talking about greek fire as if it is a super weapon that wins entire wars on it's own? It was surprisingly advanced for it's time but it never saved the Byzantines now did it?

According to Wikipedia, it did. Twice. "It provided a technological advantage and was responsible for many key Byzantine military victories, most notably the salvation of Constantinople from two Arab sieges, thus securing the Empire's survival."

[Tracian Empire]

Can people stop talking about greek fire as if it is a super weapon that wins entire wars on it's own? It was surprisingly advanced for it's time but it never saved the Byzantines now did it?

Also i'm not sure if i want to RP here anymore, sorry for all inconveniences if that's the case.

I never claimed it to be a wonder weapon. You must however recognize that it has a pretty big potential, and that it saved the Byzantines numerous times. Unfortunately, it became very hard to produce after the barbarians of the Fourth Crusade sacked Constantinople.
Also, since my armed forces are technologically inferior to the Western armies, isn't it clear that I will try to use all my advantages.

[Tracian Empire]

The Greek fire, or let's use a different name for it here, the Roman fire, will be one of most important weapons. I won't always use it, because it's dangerous to do so, but that doesn't mean that I can't work on developing a safer way to use it.

Mars help you if a cannon hits your ship where the reservoir tank is....

Yes, Cambria and Roma can be good friends.

Not exactly. From what I know, certain things were required for the substance to ignite.

[Oscalantine]

Can people stop talking about greek fire as if it is a super weapon that wins entire wars on it's own? It was surprisingly advanced for it's time but it never saved the Byzantines now did it?

Also i'm not sure if i want to RP here anymore, sorry for all inconveniences if that's the case.

Eh? Since when did we do that?

Greek Fire was a great psychological weapon that had its use in the way that it was possibly the only flammable material before the Napalm that could be used on and from water. It may not win wars similar to what Game of Thrones stuff, but it definitely helped to establish psychological naval dominance in the Byzantine. It WAS a saving grace... although it wasn't a superweapons that you are calling them, which I think you are referring to either nukes or otherwise.

Yeah, it never saved the Greeks. I never said it did. Why are you upset over Greek Fire? It happened, right? It is therefore available, right? We are discussing potential use, not agreeing that it is a nuke that wins wars.

... it isn't an inconvenience, but it certainly is a surprise. Can we not talk about what would have happened if (and for our AH, when) Greek fire was not lost in annals of history?

[Tracian Empire]

Can people stop talking about greek fire as if it is a super weapon that wins entire wars on it's own? It was surprisingly advanced for it's time but it never saved the Byzantines now did it?

Also i'm not sure if i want to RP here anymore, sorry for all inconveniences if that's the case.

Eh? Since when did we do that?

Greek Fire was a great psychological weapon that had its use in the way that it was possibly the only flammable material before the Napalm that could be used on and from water. It may not win wars similar to what Game of Thrones stuff, but it definitely helped to establish psychological naval dominance in the Byzantine. It WAS a saving grace... although it wasn't a superweapons that you are calling them, which I think you are referring to either nukes or otherwise.

Yeah, it never saved the Greeks. I never said it did. Why are you upset over Greek Fire? It happened, right? It is therefore available, right? We are discussing potential use, not agreeing that it is a nuke that wins wars.

... it isn't an inconvenience, but it certainly is a surprise. Can we not talk about what would have happened if (and for our AH, when) Greek fire was not lost in annals of history?

Well, in my Roman AH, the Greek fire saved Constantinople from the Fourth Crusade, as the Crusaders burned in front of the Imperial Capital's walls.

[Oscalantine]

Eh? Since when did we do that?

Greek Fire was a great psychological weapon that had its use in the way that it was possibly the only flammable material before the Napalm that could be used on and from water. It may not win wars similar to what Game of Thrones stuff, but it definitely helped to establish psychological naval dominance in the Byzantine. It WAS a saving grace... although it wasn't a superweapons that you are calling them, which I think you are referring to either nukes or otherwise.

Yeah, it never saved the Greeks. I never said it did. Why are you upset over Greek Fire? It happened, right? It is therefore available, right? We are discussing potential use, not agreeing that it is a nuke that wins wars.

... it isn't an inconvenience, but it certainly is a surprise. Can we not talk about what would have happened if (and for our AH, when) Greek fire was not lost in annals of history?

Well, in my Roman AH, the Greek fire saved Constantinople from the Fourth Crusade, as the Crusaders burned in front of the Imperial Capital's walls.

Ah, but the point is that I never said it, and therefore should not have incurred his wrath.

... I am going to TG him. I don't care if he returns or not, but I am offended that he saw our RP like that.

[Oscalantine]

.

Awesome, you are online. Have you received my last TG that I sent a day or so ago?

[Epraria]

Can people stop talking about greek fire as if it is a super weapon that wins entire wars on it's own? It was surprisingly advanced for it's time but it never saved the Byzantines now did it?

Also i'm not sure if i want to RP here anymore, sorry for all inconveniences if that's the case.

Don't leave!

I realized how little i knew about the Arabian peninsula making it hard to really RP them with quality, i will probably stay mainly to observe the chaos that this brings.

Can people stop talking about greek fire as if it is a super weapon that wins entire wars on it's own? It was surprisingly advanced for it's time but it never saved the Byzantines now did it?

According to Wikipedia, it did. Twice. "It provided a technological advantage and was responsible for many key Byzantine military victories, most notably the salvation of Constantinople from two Arab sieges, thus securing the Empire's survival."

Well the more you know. I'm not saying it's an ineffective thing especially against wooden ships but against things like artillery i believe it takes the short end of the stick.

[Tracian Empire]

Don't leave!

I realized how little i knew about the Arabian peninsula making it hard to really RP them with quality, i will probably stay mainly to observe the chaos that this brings.

According to Wikipedia, it did. Twice. "It provided a technological advantage and was responsible for many key Byzantine military victories, most notably the salvation of Constantinople from two Arab sieges, thus securing the Empire's survival."

Well the more you know. I'm not saying it's an ineffective thing especially against wooden ships but against things like artillery i believe it takes the short end of the stick.

It will never be able to replace artillery, but it can have a great effect from a smaller distances. It would be especially useful in naval battles, since it burns on water.

[Epraria]

I realized how little i knew about the Arabian peninsula making it hard to really RP them with quality, i will probably stay mainly to observe the chaos that this brings.

Well the more you know. I'm not saying it's an ineffective thing especially against wooden ships but against things like artillery i believe it takes the short end of the stick.

It will never be able to replace artillery, but it can have a great effect from a smaller distances. It would be especially useful in naval battles, since it burns on water.

I know, i have already acknowledged the fact that they are very effective against wooden ships and such.

[Tracian Empire]

It will never be able to replace artillery, but it can have a great effect from a smaller distances. It would be especially useful in naval battles, since it burns on water.

I know, i have already acknowledged the fact that they are very effective against wooden ships and such.

It could probably be somehow effective against ironclads too. Even if it won't burn the metal, it can burn on the water around the ship. And being in a metal ship surrounded by fire isn't exactly a good thing.

[Epraria]

Wouldn't the survival of Greek fire make so that fleets in the eastern med start to favor long ranged artillery on their ships instead of the close ranged artillery of RL? I mean if coming close to your enemies ships means getting burned to death wouldn't you start to build ships that can shot them apart instead?